Today's guest for the Y2K podcast is a
man who has traveled all around the
world and has risked his life to do his
job. If you guys are familiar with the
names Craig Jones and Joseph Chen, Roit
is the man behind the camera and
capturing these events in real time.
Roit's job is to share the stories of
the athletes and my job here today is to
share Roit's story. I hope you guys
enjoyed this conversation as much as I
did. Make sure to leave a like and
subscribe to the channel. Appreciate
every single one of you guys. Let's get
it. Yeah, we have Mr. Roit Wonder. He
does videos on YouTube and he's probably
followed your favorite jiu-jitsu
athletes like Craig Jones, Joseph Chen
to name a few. You know, Marcela Garcia,
Lanjaro is also in there as well. Um,
but how are how you doing today, Roit?
>> I'm good, thanks. Yeah, I'm really happy
to talk to you. Like I it was very
random that the algorithm gods just
recommended me a Joseph interview and it
was such a great interview like I just
had to DM you. I was like, "Oh, this
dude's because I follow Joseph around a
bunch. I spent a lot of time with him
and so it took me a while to absorb all
that information and like figure out how
to communicate it and and like it was
intense, right? Like I stayed on his
floor. I followed him a bunch. Just like
with Craig when I shoot stuff, it's very
close and intimate." And so when I
listen to your interview, I'm like,
"This [ __ ] guy is so thoughtful and
knows so much." I was like, "It took me
forever to know all that." And then you
just had the information. It's really
nice.
>> It's kind of weird how like I I I
realized like I'm a little bit of a
nerd, I guess, with certain things. Like
with that, it's just like I as soon as I
heard about the B team or just start
seeing their videos, I really just
started, you know, diving into like the
YouTube, you know, rabbit hole of
jiu-jitsu itself. I was a white belt
when I was going in. And so I'm like I'm
seeing all these people like John
Danaher, Joe Rogan talks about it, Lex
Friedman, and those guys are all kind of
different, right? They kind of take
themselves very like seriously and they
have they have this mystical sense about
them, right? Eddie Bravo, conspiracy
guy. So it's like what all the like the
the things that are similar, this one
thing that they do is jiu-jitsu. So as
soon as I started seeing that, I just
really wanted to get to know like why do
people love this thing so much? It
doesn't make sense. And then I started
training. I'm like, okay, it kind of
makes sense, but I want to know more.
And I feel like you have a really good
uh perspective of what jiu-jitsu is is
as a whole plus the people who train
because I feel like the personalities of
Craig and Joseph are almost like polar
opposite at times. And uh very curious
we could dive into kind of how you
started train yourself and then leading
into your kind of uh videography and
film making.
>> Yeah, I mean I was I was tricked into
training. I was I I'm not like a
lifelong martial arts fan per se. Like I
like the movies, like you know, Bruce
Lee, all that type of stuff. But like I
was so I have uh I have a career I had
before this whole jiu-jitsu thing. Like
before I was running around chasing
Craig with a camera and all these guys.
I I like worked 14 years in the media
industry.
>> Um and it was like for the international
version of like HBO or Fox or Discovery
and all of that. Like they make all the
money they need in the US. We're just
the cherry on top. they you know they
sell HBO and all these other channels
internationally. So I used to work for
I'm lifelong nerd. We can go to that
eventually but like I was just into that
stuff and my career brought me to the
Philippines. Um and I was there during
like the Pacquiao run and so it's a
really exciting time to be into boxing
and you know the Philippines is really
amazing place. Yeah. And like there was
no crime whenever he fought. Like the
streets were empty. Like it was crazy.
And like every everybody knew he was
fighting. It was insane. Um and so it's
such an exciting time to be there. And
it's also like a very affordable place
to be. So like every boxing session is a
private. Like you're not holding ms for
nobody. They're always holding bats for
you. So I thought, okay, um I wanted to
try it. I'm in the Philippines.
Everybody thinks they can box when you
watch Pacquiao, right? So it's like,
okay, let me try it. Um, I got LASIK,
like the laser. I I used to wear
glasses. So, I got LASIK and then the
next day I'm like, "All right, I'm ready
now. Let's go try boxing cuz obviously
you you can't do it when you wear
glasses." And then I trained for a while
and the whole time was actually training
at a jiu-jitsu gym. Um, and I didn't
really even know what jiu-jitsu was. I
just saw people wear the ghee and I saw
them laying down on the mat and I was
left like before class started.
So I was like that looks like that looks
like something for me like you're just
wearing these pajama looking things and
you're laying down. Then I was like oh
that like and they look so chill. You
know how jiu-jitsu people are like when
just laying down before class it's like
they got this energy of just like
contentment
>> like nothing can bother them and just
happy to be there. So I was like okay
that's interesting. And my coach kept
telling me, "This is a jiu-jitsu gym.
Try jiu-jitsu." And I'm like, "I don't I
mean, I like the pajama thing, but I
don't know, like it seems a bit." And so
eventually he convinced me to try it by
selling me a ghee. And the ghee was
pretty expensive at the time. So he sold
me the ghee. He's like, "You have to use
this at least 20 times to make it worth
it." He was a very good salesman. And
then so I I bought the ghee. I I went to
class. And that was the first time
actually like I didn't know people were
going to jump on me. I didn't know
anything.
Um, and there was this really nice
purple belt who took me around class and
like he showed me like I was with him
the whole time. He shadowed me. He's
like, "This is this is that." And then
he was kind of a nerdy guy. I worked for
Google um in the Philippines. And so
it's and he was wearing like the Star
Trek Rashgard
>> of course.
>> It's kind of like so it's not what you
expect. I you know I thought it'd be
like some MMA fighter. He's like some
nerdy dude. And then when we rolled, he
like gave me like I'd never felt so
helpless in such a nice gentle way. Like
he could arm bar me from every direction
and like this. And I was like, "Oh my
god." And this is like a nerd. So I was
like, "This is incredible." And then he
said, "I got to go. You can get some
rounds in with some other people if you
want." And then the next guy was a white
belt from some random school. He neon
bellied me and then pulled my collar up
and like injured my rib. And as I
screamed, ah, sweat fell from his
forehead right in my mouth into my mouth
at 100 points.
>> And and I was injured for like three,
four weeks after
>> on your
>> Yeah. And I was I'm never doing that
again. I am never doing that again. And
then and then over time I would look at
the ski in the corner that costs a lot
of money.
>> The Green Goblin mask.
>> Yeah. I was I should use it. And then
also like I started thinking about the
nerdy guy more than uh more than the the
injury. And I was like that guy if I
could be 1% of that guy that's kind of
cool. Then I started going back. And you
just you just started training
consistently? Like did you like have
other people that you kind of saw as
like an inspiration for training or did
you just like see it as like a hobby for
what what was it for you?
>> After I while I was injured, I went on
YouTube and I saw an ATS triangle
somebody. I was like, "Oh, that's pretty
cool." I was like, "Oh, maybe if I can
learn that one, that's good." But
strangely enough, even though I was in
the Philippines, these guys were not
small. Like they were all bigger than me
for some reason. and and it was an old
school gym and it was like earlier in
jiu-jitsu. There wasn't as many YouTube
videos. It wasn't successful to
knowledge. So like it was sink or swim.
You wander around the gym once in a
while they'll throw you scrap of
information but most of the time you're
just like a training dummy. So for that
first year I didn't really like it but I
didn't want to quit. So I just kept at
it. And honestly I like I moved from
Philippines to Singapore at the end of
the year. So I was like okay this is my
excuse to quit. I'm not going to do that
ever again. I've paid off my ghee. I
don't like it that much. Like, who wants
to do this [ __ ] where you just get beat
up all the time? And so, I quit. And
then when I was here, there happened to
be a gym near my office. It was a Muay
Thai gym. I'm like, okay, great. I can
hit stuff. That sounds fine. So, I did
that. And then the first day I showed up
for class, like, oh, by the way, we're
starting jiu-jitsu next week. I'm like,
I can't escape this thing. And then I
started doing no ghee. And then it
really started growing on me. Like no
ghee and the right training environment
is very important.
I still haven't found that necessarily
for me personally about no gi because
I've mostly started training in the ghee
realized like there's a bunch of cool
chokes in the ghee but no geek seems
like that's where it's where most of the
that's where it's popping mo kind of
like all the athletes you get all the
all the cool stuff Joseph Craig ABCC CJI
um but yeah that's cool that you kind of
you nec some people just like oh I fell
in love right away so that's pretty
interesting that you were like oh like
there was a couple things where I'm like
I'm done with this but it just keeps on
and now you really can't escape cuz now
you're you're deep into into film making
and stuff like that too. Did I start off
right away or was that your goal to
start?
>> No, not at all. I mean I and by the way
I still don't know if I like jiu-jitsu.
I got a lovehate relation I'm a brown
belt. I still got a lovehate
relationship with it and I think most
people do but you spend so much your
time there and it like estranges you
from the rest of society. Like now like
I'm injured right now and most of my
socializing happens at the gym. So now
I'm not really even socializing. Somehow
it it infiltrated my work life and then
oh like it's it's everything now over
time. You're like you need a lawyer. I
think I know that guy in class.
>> Exactly.
>> You got a friend that's in jail like I
think I know a lawyer. Like yeah. So um
and to your question no I like after
leaving uh my corporate career I like I
wanted to I just missed making stuff
myself. It's like how I started out. Um
and like over time I was doing more
business and less making stuff. And it
was getting to a point where I wasn't
even confident I could make stuff
anymore. I was like really like had this
weird imposter syndrome identity crisis.
So if you like my videos like 3 4 years
ago, I wasn't even confident I could
make videos. I like it. I I could not
like I had footage sitting on a hard
drive. I couldn't even start to edit it
cuz I like it's going to be terrible.
Blah blah blah. So, um, but I when I got
the courage to start making videos again
and putting them out, um, you just make
videos about whatever you have access
to. Like one of my first videos was
cleaning under my bed. Like literally,
there's it's a terrible video idea, but
like that's how I And then eventually it
came towards like, let me go to a camp
um that Craig participated in. And then
like yeah, in Thailand that one. And
like I I have a background in like a
couple things. One is production and the
other is this thing called content
strategy, right? And content strategy is
like the algorithms but like the human
side of it. Like how do you decide what
to make? Those are really what I used to
do for a living. So when I was thinking
once I started getting comfortable
making videos for YouTube, I'm like
strategically what should I be making
videos about? It's like what am I
passionate about and what is there an
audience for and where is there like not
much competition and like I zeroed in on
Craig. I was like oh I'm a fan. I think
he's really funny. I know there's not
that much content about him online. It's
just the B team stuff and I think it
could be done better. Um and so that was
always like a thread I had in mind. Like
it's weird. It almost sounds like um
parasocial and stalkery, but when I
looked at Craig, I was kind of like,
"Oh, I I feel like we could do something
together." Somehow, like we managed to
make it work over time, but yeah, I was
just drawn to it, but I Everything is an
accident. I just took some steps and
everything accidentally happened uh
throughout life.
>> Well, it seems like you had a vision in
mind though, like it kind of came into
fruition. Maybe it wasn't ideally how
you expected it, but you did end up
filming for Craig and being there for
CJI and that one of the biggest
tournaments to to date that has ever
happened. So, it was just uh Do you feel
like you were just putting yourself in
the right position at that time to to
make something happen like that?
>> I'm kind of like the Forest Gump or
where's Waldo of jiu-jitsu? Like if you
look in the background, I'm probably
somewhere in a lot of different things.
But yeah, I think it's like my whole
career was and my whole life has really
been like since I was a kid, I was
interested in making videos. That's all
I've ever wanted to do, right? When I
watch TV, I would take notes. I wasn't
watching it like a normal kid. And I was
like the VHS era, so I just watch stuff
again and again and again and again.
They sold bootlegs VHS near where I
lived. So my mom would bring me videos
and there wasn't that much TV back then.
You could watch stuff again. You could
figure out how it worked. And so, but I
was in Hong Kong. Like I grew up in Hong
Kong, an Indian kid in Hong Kong, very
far from Hollywood.
Um, and so it's like everything I've
always wanted to do, like the odds of it
happening were very low, but I cared so
much that I would at least try little
ways, you know? So, I would like I would
make little steps. I would do the thing
and I would do it for free even if I had
to. And in doing it for free, you put
things out in the universe and sometimes
that stuff happens. And I think it's
been the case throughout my career and
through jiu-jitsu.
>> What were some points where you kind of
felt discouraged and maybe you're just
like I shouldn't even stick with this
thing that I've been doing for so long?
I would like
I don't know if it's a gift or a curse,
but like I've just always wanted to make
videos.
Before being a YouTuber was a thing, I
wanted to make videos. It's all I've
ever wanted to do. If I didn't get paid
to do it, I would do it.
So nothing would ever discourage me from
making videos. And at one point my
career was going super well. Like I was
I was a general manager of like a
streaming service and across a big part
of Asia, right? And like at that point I
was working on that so much I I'd be I
like I wasn't getting the reps in making
videos. I was like I don't even know if
I can do it anymore. And I quit. Like
that was a good job and I quit to just
make little videos cleaning dust under
my bed. Like so like at sometimes I
question my skills every time I have to
start to edit a video. I hate myself but
there was never any doubt like what I
would be trying to do and what I'll keep
doing. Like film making is like
jiu-jitsu in a way like I could do it
till I'm old. Um
yeah. So, it's interesting like the the
doubts have just been in like my own
skill and like before you pitch
something and anytime you want to edit I
start to edit I hate myself but it's
always the same direction. I don't know
why it's so like overwhelming though.
Like especially when you have I'm sure
for you I'm sure it's absolutely insane
but the amount of footage you have and
then you're just like all right I'm
going start like for me at least it's
like man I'm like okay I'll start I'll
start soon you know I'll start okay
today I don't have the energy for it but
it just feels like one of those things
where I I want to do it but I know it's
going to take a long time. Is there any
any tips that have helped you along the
way for that type of process? Yeah, I
mean like it's recognizing for me it's a
couple of things, but I want to be very
clear like it's still I've been doing
this my whole life. It still stresses me
out. I still procrastinate. There's so
many different things, but I I' I've
learned to recognize over time that for
me like number one is fear of the
unknown
and like fear of not using your time
properly, right? Because like you don't
know how it's going to go before you
start. You have the footage, but you
still don't know it's going to piece
together. It's always a fear of the
unknown, right? At least for me. So
recognizing that is important and saying
to yourself, "Hey, like you're not
starting because you're scared. You you
got to start anyways at some point.
Procrastinate if you need to, but just
recognize that this is you being
scared." It's like every fighter, I'm
sure they're scared before they come
out, right? But like they fight anyways.
That's what a professional does and
that's what somebody really wants to
accept. So I think number one,
recognizing it's probably fear that it
sucks and that's okay. And then number
two, just starting. Like you, as long as
like it's r it's like going to jiu-jitsu
training. Like you may be lazy. You may
want to stay at home and eat chips or
watch TV or whatever, but you never
regret when you leave the gym. So it's
kind of like that. Like I I just force
myself to start. And once I start, I
know I'll keep going. And there's like
this emotional journey I go through that
may be the same or different for people
where it's like I start with that idea.
And I I have to get so and Craig is like
this actually like he has to think about
it and get so excited about an idea that
he wills it into existence. He's like
all right this is the only idea I got to
do this right and then then you start to
execute it and the whole time you're
like I don't know this is going to work
and then once you do it you have to
start putting the thing together and as
you put it together the whole time
you're like I don't know this is going
to work. It's hard to get going. Um, and
then at some point as you're building
it, you're like, "This is not going to
work. I've wasted my time and I've
ruined my life." And you hate yourself
increasingly because you put yourself
here.
>> Yeah.
>> Um, and then at some point you cross
this tipping point where you can see it
a little bit like what you had in mind.
And then suddenly you're like, you go
full Kanye West. You're like, I'm a
genius.
I am a god. I am a genius. This is
incredible. And then you like by the
time you finish you're just like get it
away from me and then you put it out and
you don't know it's going to work and
then you do it again.
>> Yeah.
>> Same cycle.
>> I think when you said that just like the
fear of the unknown, you were literally
put in the unknown with Craig. Can you
maybe for the people who are just heard
of you for the first time or even
haven't heard of Craig Jones um how can
you explain I mean you can go into
detail if you would like I'm sure
there's a lot of stuff that went went on
but just being with Craig Jones for that
period of time there was there was
moments where you actually like you got
lost Craig in Vegas um you were out
there in Ukraine in a in a war zone with
him without necessarily him telling you
like what what are some things that uh
stick out to you from your experience
with Craig Jones?
>> Uh, so like I guess for people that
aren't so aware of Craig or who he is,
he's like um you know he's a grappler.
He's a very talented and creative
grappler from Australia. And like he's
become very popular in the sport of
jiu-jitsu, not just because of his
skills, but more so because of his
personality. He's like funny. He likes
to stir [ __ ] um and he likes to go on
an adventure and it's just he's just
lived his life further and further in
that direction and so like even though I
was interested in jiu-jitsu when I would
watch Craig's stories and see his life
and everything I was more interested in
the man and I was more like oh I wish I
could help tell stories about that man
because I feel like the way I was
influenced which is I'd watch a lot of
stuff like Louis Thuru from like the
90s, the guy who did the inside the
manosphere thing. Um, like I would watch
Anthony Bourdain. I watched a lot I've
watched a lot of documentaries and I
work for Discovery Channel. I work for
Nio. I work for HBO. So like I've really
been passionate about making
documentaries and I'm really passionate
about making comedy. So, when I see this
guy, it's like a hunter who just sees
this like weird rare elk thing
>> uh in pink tie-dye shorts and
everything. And I'm like, I really want
to work with him. Um, and you know, I
I'd been to his camps uh when he holds
like these jiu-jitsu camps once in a
while. I went to one in Thailand. I got
to know him. Um, and then I just kept
volunteering to shoot for him for free,
just like get to know him and see if we
really vibe. And I don't know, maybe
he's an [ __ ] in real life. I don't
know. Right. So, I started doing that.
And then he
um uses the power of spite very well.
He uses spite better than anybody. I'm
going go further than anybody in the
name of spite, but usually for like a
good cause.
Usually for like an altruistic cause.
So, when you felt like athletes in
jiu-jitsu were not being paid well
enough, and they really weren't. Like
there's a tournament that happens every
year 80C. They have the same pay for
athletes since 1998.
>> 10,000, right?
>> Yeah. With inflation, 10,000 is like $8,
right? Since 1998. It's crazy. And then
women were getting paid less. And it's
what happens when you become a monopoly.
No competition. You just become lazier
and lazier. It becomes more about ego.
So he found an a sponsor and he said,
"I'm going to start my own tournament
and I'm going to do it uh on the same
day as the competitor." And this is all
out of spite, right? And and out of love
for the athletes and everything. And so
I think he got the money.
He got confirmed he's going to get three
$4 million to hold this million dollar
tournament. And again, he's stewing on
an idea. He's got an idea. He's got an
idea. Now he's like, I'm going to do it
the same day. And it was like 120 130
days later. He's like, I can do it. I
got the money. I can do it. And if I do
in the same day, it's really going to
[ __ ] them up. Right. the power of spite
and then if you build it they will come.
So he remembered this free guy coming
around following him around with a
camera who's like, "Hey, can I help make
videos? Hey, can I help make videos?"
He's like, "I have 120 days. I got
bigger fish to fry. Let me just call
this guy, see if he wants to follow me
with the camera."
And his plan was market the hell out of
this tournament. And his version of
marketing is, let me go on an insane
adventure around the world. I'm going to
go see Romanian witches. I'm going to go
to the Ukraine and I'm going to go to
the front lines of Ukraine. we're going
to do Turkish oil wrestling. Like he
came up with all these ideas himself.
Like I've never suggested an idea to
him. He had this itinerary, right? And
he's just like, "Hey, you've been asking
me to film me. I now have 100 days to do
this thing. I have no idea how I'm going
to do it. I don't even know if we can do
it, but I'm giving you an offer to now
follow me around the world. I'll pay you
and maybe we can make videos. I don't
even know. Like, we'll figure it out."
Was that a phone call?
>> That was a phone call. I was sleeping on
Joseph Chen's floor in Shanghai and then
I get a text message from him at like
or in the morning. He's like,
"Opportunity knocks
and like
and he mentioned early in the phone call
like we're going to Ukraine."
So, I was like
like I knew it was going to be crazy. I
didn't know if I could physically make
it through the challenge. I'm not saying
I'm like I don't have health problems.
I'm just saying it's an intense
lifestyle this man lives. He's traveling
on stuff.
>> He He's like the most unpredictable
person ever.
>> Yeah. And like everybody else, you have
doubts about your own skills and your
own creativity and like do I want to put
my work in front of what's potentially a
very toxic audience. Like I don't know.
Do I want to put myself out there and do
I want to be away from someone I love
for like a 100 days? Like and like the
danger aspect of it. Like there was a
lot to it. Um, but I think because I'd
always wanted to do it and I always want
to try it and I know what it's like to
live with regrets, I was like, "Let me
do it." So, you you go in the unknown uh
and you try these things. But that's I
know there's a fair bit of context, but
I think that's where my head was at at
the time.
>> Yeah. And if you guys want to check out
full in detail, you just dropped a
episode breaking down kind of what it
was like, you know, receiving the money,
going on Joe Rogan, the whole ordeal,
getting the athletes. I just remember
when it was happening in real time like
okay Craig's you know he talked about
like oh they were asking him oh he going
to compete in ABCC he started talking
about the price he's like it's not worth
it and he's like I'm going to start my
own tournament I I was like how how is
he going to you know do this you know it
doesn't even make sense where is he
going to get the money from right those
are the questions that most people would
ask like that's not going to happen and
then it just happens you know I was
there at the event one of the craziest
events ever I would say that you know
the capeo and taken matches would be up
there for a very long time as one of the
best matches that we could see. And you
know that all started with those ideas
and now when you were explaining that
those like Turkish oil wrestling and
being out there in Ukraine, I'm like you
were the one shooting that all those
things that I just envisioned. It was
like you were the one recording that.
So, it kind of just blows my mind that
you're able to experience the things in
in person, record it, and then kind of
just like being able to market because
it's not a normal type of marketing.
You're not going to see ADCC do some
stuff like this. You're not going to see
some other company be like, "Yo, we're
going to put our lives in danger." Um,
and maybe you didn't necessarily know
you were gonna put be in that much
danger, but um, how was it being in
Ukraine and knowing that there's an
active war going on and that maybe, you
know, there's I think Craig mentioned
those like drones and how dangerous it
was and you guys, you know, taking a uh,
someone giving you guys a ride and
someone else just like said that they
just kind of had an attack nearby. Like
how in those moments did you feel like
you made a mistake like while you were
dealing with that situation?
Like
just in terms of chronology, right? I
had met Craig in Austin. We went on Joe
Rogan. He dumped the money on his table.
He announced a tournament. Next we went
to New York. Um and we're just there a
few days. He had some personal business
and then we were on Helwani and all of
that. Next was Romania with the witches
and then right after that was Ukraine.
And like Romania was just because it's
the only way to enter Ukraine. You can't
fly into Ukraine at the time. There's a
war so you have to drive. So we went
from like Romania Mold. So the reason
I'm telling you this is I'd known him
for 3 weeks before entering a war zone
with him. Like it's not like he's a
lifelong friend or something, right? Um
and like there are things
Like really what he said was, "Hey,
we're going to go to Ukraine. I've been
there before. Um, and the last time I
went there, the army is like, "Hey, why
don't you come spend time with us and
see what it's really like?" Um, and you
don't have to do anything you don't want
to. You can stay in the hotel the whole
time if you want. By the way, it's like
the hotels still get bombed, but he's
like, you know, you can stay in the
hotel the whole time if you want to, and
you don't have to do anything you don't
want to, but like I know you want to do
this.
And he was right because like I'd saw
him go to Ukraine before and no footage
came out of it and I'm just like how is
that
like like what a waste, right? And like
my only goal the whole time was just to
document. I didn't even think I'd be
putting out vlogs, but I thought this is
going to be a crazy thing happening. Let
me just document. And like I grew up
watching a lot of like old movies, a lot
of war movies. So I'd always been
curious like what is it like? And I
would never want to experience life as a
soldier. It sounds horrible, but like
could I see a little bit of that? Could
I document it and just experience it
once in my life at least from a
distance?
>> And so this was a reason to do it. And I
was um I have a partner. She's a very
sweet girl from Singapore who also does
not want like she's not trying to get
rid of me so she's not like go to the
war zone. She was like listen if you've
always wanted to do it it's on your
bucket list do it be safe but like it's
dangerous obviously and you got to watch
yourself and um and like so I went over
there and we started very far away from
the front lines. We started on the
opposite end of Ukraine, right? We we
went in through Malddova which is like
uh the west and the war a lot of it's on
the east and so we started there and
then we went to the bottom the Black Sea
and I could it's almost like you like
boiling a frog you get increasingly more
into the war and you get increasingly
more comfortable but it's also
increasingly more dangerous.
>> So our first stop was Odessa which is
like a tourist sea sea town. It's where
you go to have seafood. It's on the
Black Sea. It's like very pretty. So, we
enter this like resort seafood village
area, but it's like empty. And then at
night, you hear missiles and [ __ ]
They're not hitting Odessa, but like
they're all around you and you can see
him in the sky. And so, that's us far
away from the war. And so, this is like,
oh [ __ ] we're here,
but I think we're out of range. Um, but
this was like my But this the reality
was that I was in like a holiday
paradise with nobody there and you could
see Miss House in the background, right?
You're just near Crimea as well. You're
not that far. And then he said, "Let's
go to the city." So, we went to Kev and
all of Ukraine. We were there um on the
roads cuz you can't fly. It's an active
war zone. So, we were driving 10, 14
hours. Um, and we're guests of the army.
So, like they were taking care of us.
Um, but you know, you go at your own
risk. So, they tell us, you know, Kev
probably safe for a while. So, we went
up to the big city of Kee, like the main
city. And Ukraine is beautiful. It's so
green. It's so lush. It's like such
amazing land. And so, when you're
driving across it, you're like, and I
was editing the whole time in the car
cuz like I had to put out vlogs. So,
we're 14-hour drive. I'll just be
editing. And then we get to Kev and you
see a city that's a bit that's also
beautiful, but a bit abandoned.
And then you see some stuff that's been
blown up
and then there's this app they make you
download. It's called Air Alert and it
just tells you when shit's popping. And
it and when I got to Kev it just kept
popping. When I was on Odessa I was like
twice a night. When I got to key it's
like every night to the point where you
just muted it cuz you're like what's the
point,
right?
And then we're filming from there and
then we do a I think we do a seminar
with the police and the army and all of
that. And then Craig says, "Hey, like uh
there's a mission we can go check out if
you want." Like my friend Roman, this
shaved head dude with all the tattoos
and everything. Um in our series, he's
the one shaking the grenades like the
Moracas. Um so he's like he's like he's
in like Don/Donbas,
so way more east about probably 8 to 12
km I think from the front line at the
time. So he's like, you know, we can
take a train and go down there. Um, and
we can spend time with him. Where are he
staying? I was like, where is he
staying? He's like, oh. He's like, in
this village house. So, I'm like, all
right, I'm curious. We're not exactly on
the front line. And we're like, yes, of
the army. Let's do that. So, we head to
the train station and it's really weird.
Like, I see it in black and white. Like,
everyone's going in one direction and
we're going the opposite.
And other people on the train are all
like uniforms. And this is like not a
it's not a this is not like a glamorous
train, by the way. This like it looks
like some world war [ __ ] And then we're
sleeping on the allnighter train and
we're heading there and then Roman picks
us up at the at the train station and
then it's like this beautiful European
city. I remember we go have like uh
lunch and he's drinking wine and he's
smoking cigarettes. I'm like this guy's
living life when he can. Um and then I
was like this kind of a classy dude.
He's not like some army grid dude. He's
like oh he's like a refined European
gentleman smoking cigars and drinking
wine at lunch. And then he we drive and
we go to where he's staying. And where
he's staying is like an abandoned
village house.
And what that means is they're so near
the bombing area that the villagers
flee. And as an army, you don't want to
put up a big flag saying, "I'm here." So
they stay in these abandoned houses. And
they're like, you know, it's just
concrete. There's like outhouses.
There's no toilet. They use Starlink.
And when you enter the house, it's just
like like artillery everywhere cuz
that's like where they keep stuff. And
this is like where they sleep when
they're on a mission. And then they go
to front line.
And when you're here, there's shelling
all the time. You're just hearing it.
And we're sleeping on like um like these
fold out camping beds and like so I'm
just painting the picture of like you
just get increasingly closer. Um and
that's when you're like you don't regret
it yet, but you feel the danger more and
the danger varies. Like now it's like oh
there's a drone and we don't know if
that's our drone or an enemy drone. We
got to move. We would like go visit a
drone command center and we're supposed
to spend the day there. I'm getting
comfortable getting ready to edit and
then like chilling after shooting and
they're like, "Oh, you got to go." And
you know, you're like, there's no safety
in those places because either they aim
at you and they get you or they aim at
you and their things get knocked out of
sky and they land on you by luck. I'm in
an underground bunker and I'm like, "Oh,
we must be safe." They're like, "No, no,
this is worse. Bunker buster missiles.
You burn to death."
So like, but it was a gradual and
eventually we're like a kilometer from
the front line. That's where the story
goes. Like eventually they were like,
"One more mission if you want. We'll
drive you around the town." Then we just
claim back.
>> You guys almost got hit, right? Like
Craig was like getting a workout in like
underground. Were you working out with
them or were you nearby?
>> Yeah, we were um we had a few close
calls. So we got shot at in Dawnbus cuz
but it was by the Ukrainian army cuz we
were like doing some they were blowing
up a car with the ADC logo on it and
then they said you we're like give us 10
minutes we'll take some photos and we'll
go and like I don't even think it was 10
minutes you start firing in that
direction and all these all the bullets
were flying like like what do you call
it? R not recoil
>> ricochet
>> ricochet. Yeah. So they're all
ricocheting in our direction and then
like there was some like just barely
missing Craig's leg. I was like I walk
around all goofy shooting. He's like get
down. I'm like, so that was there was
that and then there was there were
drones and shelling going on during that
80cc car blowup shoot. So like there
were drones we couldn't recognize flying
overhead and then there was shelling. So
we'd be walking and the ground would
just shake like nearby and they're
bombing the village we're staying at.
And then um the story you might be
referring to, we were visiting in Kan,
which is like the most bombed city in
Ukraine. That's that's what it's known
for. and they'd gone back and forth
between Russian and Ukraine possession
like multiple times. And so they're
like, "It's ours today. So, you want to
come check it out? Check it out." And we
met and we met the like the senior guys
in the army who also like influencers.
Like war is a big thing there, you know?
It's like a big part of the culture. And
I'll go a little deep uh with stories if
you want. Like so when we enter the
base, they say you got to clean your
feet. And so when you enter the I
realize like you're cleaning your feet
on Russian flag
like it's bad blood. This is not like a
like the Ukrainians are motivated.
They're fighting for existence.
A lot of the Russians don't even know
why they're fighting cuz they're like
sometimes they're prisoners or whatever.
Descent to go, right? They tell you
fight in the war, you survive 6 months,
you're out. But they're dead in two.
Um and like when we when we hang out
with the army bosses, like they're just
their offices are filled with
possessions. They've taken off Russians
like uniforms.
It's real bad blood over there. And then
so they say, "If you want you can go for
a ride around the city. We'll have army
guys take you. We'll put a drone blocker
on the car and don't take too long." So,
okay. So, we do that and then they start
shelling near us. So, they were trying
to hit us, it turns out. And um and they
couldn't use drones cuz of the blocker.
So, they're just using old school
artillery. And one of the shells landed
like 500 meters away from us. And it
didn't sound that near, but we were in a
like a armored car, so you you don't
realize it actually mused the sound.
It's actually pretty near us. And then
we heard all this like Ukrainian on the
phone, Russian, and it sounded panicked.
So then they drove really fast and took
us back. So that was pretty that was
that's probably the closest call. Um
yeah. H how have you what what did you
notice about Craig's personality since
he's more of like a you know he's like a
funny witty type of guy but in that type
of serious situation what what
differences did you see u person
>> like in in in those settings?
>> Yeah. And how he carried himself? Did
you notice something different than you
know usually you know just having a
laugh and making fun of people and stuff
like that? No, I mean he took it very
seriously and he really cares about
their cause, but I think he also knows
his role is to tell the story in an
interesting way and to to give the
people fighting some hope and energy,
you know? So like we put on seminars for
like the troops and like they'd be able
to grapple with him and like he'd, you
know, he do funny moves and all of that.
Like he's there to cheer him up and
there to feel supported. Like that's
that's really what his purpose is. like
he's not there goofing around like he
dresses like a jackass that's for sure
like as in like we're in all green like
land and he's wearing like orange shorts
and a tie-dye hat and I think like a
wife Peter or something but he takes it
very he's very respectful I would say
and like his character is the same and I
think it's difficult for him because
like you know I can't say for sure what
his tolerance is for danger like he
seems comfortable with it but because
I'm there he has to worry about me he
needs to get me back home so I think
that's the part where he gets more
concerned. Um, but he's the same guy.
Like, you know, generally speaking, he's
a weird character that doesn't seem real
as in it seems too absurd, right? But
that's really an extension of who he is.
Like what you see is what you get.
really. I would like to talk about like
the contrast between Craig and Joseph
since um those are two honestly two of
my favorite jiu-jitsu athletes to watch
for different reasons, but I would like
to kind of get to know like you know how
they are as as people. You know, we get
to see them on the main stage when they
go compete, but like how what are the
differences that you notice between the
two?
>> So, I I'll give my perspective and
they're my favorite two to watch as well
by the way. Uh, but like I'll give my
perspective
um, which is a unique one and it may not
be the perfect one or the
all-encompassing one, but like I'll say
with Craig, I was literally the only one
with him the entire CGI one. Like 100
days it was just I had the best seat in
the house,
me and the camera because I was with him
the entire time. I was the only one like
cuz not everybody can travel all the
time, right? That's my commitment. And
with Joseph, I met him when he was 16
and like so I knew him as blue belt. Um,
and like I've watched him mature and
then when I um wanted to make a series,
he actually helped introduce me to
sponsor and they funded one of my first
series which was about him and in that
series I spent time traveling with
Joseph and like I really got to know him
and my goal of that series was like how
is he so good? Who is this guy? Right?
So um so I I can give you answers from
those two perspectives. Um
like is there any particular aspect
>> more just on on how they act together? I
I would kind of just like wonder how
that relationship is because I feel like
for me at least this is just coming from
a a fan perspective but Joseph is this
this guy who's very calm who has this
like fun personality about him. He seems
like a like a nice guy, you know, but
he's really smart and he's a killer in
jiu-jitsu, which is cool that he could
do the best of both worlds, right? Like
he's he's super chill, but at the same
time, he's he's he's a beast. Craig, on
the other hand, social media type of guy
where he makes like the best like
comeback jokes that I've ever seen in my
life. I don't know how quick how I don't
know how how he does it, but his
jiu-jitsu is just as good. Like he
always has an answer for everything
instantly. So, I was just like, whoa.
like how how are these guys like
together and kind of like the
differences between them?
>> Uh I it's a great question uh and a
great observation. I'd say like
I think I'd start maybe I'll start with
Craig which will explain Joseph a little
bit right and this is just my opinion
again but like Craig comes from a small
town in Australia. He started at a gym
where I think there was four people and
he was being taught by a blue belt or
something, right? So, he comes from
pretty humble beginnings. Um,
and he's had people take care of him
throughout his career. You know, Lachlan
Giles early on. Um, and when he went to
the US, people would help him out,
right? And there are some people that
are very talented and very nice and just
need some help, right? Like I've heard
stories of like Owen Jones with like I
think he was like I I can't say for sure
cuz I've never heard it from him, but
I've heard he was near homeless at some
points. I've heard. Right. And this guy
still made it. And how how does that
happen? That's from people letting you
crash,
right? That's from people like
supporting you. people that you stay
sleep on the couch, whatever. And so
Craig's had people help him out like
that. And he knows there's a lot of
entitled people and a lot of not nice
people in the sport. So I think when
Joseph
uh came to Austin as a kid,
he did it in a way that is true to
Joseph.
Like he's a sweet kid. It's like more or
less single mom, right? Like he just
loves jiu-jitsu and he has the this wind
beneath him which is like just the
support of his mom and his family, you
know, they just all the love went in him
and his and his siblings. So like he
just was raised a mature, sweet guy who
wants to take care of people and he's
from Asia. So he's not he's not in there
like I want to be a star of the show.
He's just like, "Hey, I want to learn
jiu-jitsu." This is cool. And he still
got that energy, by the way. Right. So,
I think um and you've heard the stories
like he Greg didn't roll with him for a
while. Like Joseph was just doing his
thing in the gym slowly beating people
up very politely and trying to learn.
So, I think Greg knew and Greg is a good
judge of character. Greg knew who he
was. He knew he was a good kid. And I
think he takes almost a paternal role in
Joseph's life. Like I know there's the
jokes about being a absentee father and
a deadbeat dad, but I mean like they
sponsored his visa, right? They took
care of him. He helped coach him in
competitions. And I think Joseph's
success is Craig's success and I think
there's a bond like between them. It's
very unique and I think it's very
loving. At the same time, Craig loves to
embarrass Joseph. Joseph loves to
highlight Craig if he can. And so you
have this competitive thing as well. So
I think it's almost like a familial like
brother-like relationship.
>> Yeah. Not as competitive as Ken and
Joseph, right?
>> It's interesting. Like Joseph claims
he's competitive about everything except
jiu-jitsu.
Like jiu-jitsu is all about learning.
But again, I think it's like a sibling
like thing. And I like Joseph loves to
compete. Um, and like you know, Kenta
beat Joseph in competition that one
time, the trials. So, I think like that
was hard for Joseph as well, I'm sure.
But they love each other. They're like
they iron sharpens iron. Uh, but it is
funny. Like one of the things I learned
spending time with competitive athletes
because I'm not a competitive person
traveling with these guys and meeting
them is like there's a few things you
learn hanging out with the pros, right?
Number one, they're generally got a way
bigger head start than you. like they're
awesome by the time they're 16.
Like like Joseph had a neck this thick
by the time he was 16, right? And like
they have supportive parents, maybe
they're not spending as much time
studying. Like they're they're gathering
their 10,000 hours early and then
they're physically gifted and mentally,
right? Whether it's autism, whatever.
They're like they're they're locked in
very early. Um,
and so like and they spend time around
other people like that and they spend
all their time sharpening each other and
so it becomes your world and you want to
learn and you want to compete. So these
guys are like they they compete with
each other but then they also feed off
each other and they learn off each
other. It's interesting to watch and
then so when I hang out with the pros
you realize there's another level of
competition in them. It's not a level of
competition I have. I don't care that
much like especially about winning at
sports. Do I want like I think I can
shoot something better than you. Okay.
You know, that type of thing is in me.
There's a bit of that in all of us. And
when I train jiu-jitsu, like I want to
also show that I can do it, right? But
yeah, I think there's another level of
competition in all of them. I don't
think you can be a pro without being
that competitive.
It it is interesting that Joseph says
like he I think he said he played like
I forgot how long I think it was like
over 80 matches of Street Fighter with
Kenta and it's like no normal person. I
mean yeah sometimes you get in those
situations where you're like you know
I'm I'm be super competitive right here
but at the same time it's like it feels
you have to have that internal desire to
be able to want to do something like
that you know.
>> Yeah. Yeah. And I think that with like I
heard something the other day, I forgot
where it was when they're like some
people play to win and some people play
not to lose,
right? And it motivates you in
competition. Um, and so I think it's a
bit of both, but I think there is some
dopamine for Joseph in learning and
improving.
I remember there was that time him and
Joseph, Ka and Joseph were playing like
bowling together and Joseph doesn't
bowl, right? And so he was just doing
gutter balls for like two three rounds
and then Kenta was like, "Haha, I
finally beat you or something." And by
the fourth round, like Joseph was
schooling Kenta and I don't even know
how it happened. It happened right in
front of me. I then they went to karaoke
after and Joseph was trying to beat him
in karaoke. Like in Asia, they give you
a score.
>> Oh, really? I didn't
>> like they just he just likes to compete
and stuff and Yeah, man. So, I think
like there's some level of that that
exists in all the pros and it's a level
I can't ever reach. I I just I don't
care that much either way. Like the high
of winning and the high and the low of
losing is not my spectrum is not that
high. I'm pretty neutral with that
stuff.
>> I like their I think their philosophies
of training. I feel like Joseph is like
yeah like I'm I'm here to learn,
improve. Um you know, ask your training
partner, you know, what I did well and
he likes you know you know he talks
about these books that's helped him
podcast. Craig, it feels like he's like,
I just want to submit you with the moves
that you'll remember. Like just stuff
like that. It's like what? It's just
it's it's so mindboggling to me. Um, one
thing we shared a little bit before we
hopped on the podcast was um kind of
your your uh pre-checklist for your
videos. Like I'll have an image up here
of kind of what you have written down
before you have do you have like this
stuff already planned out before you
even start the video? like can you, you
know, get me in your mind a little bit
before kind of just like, okay, I have
an idea and then kind of just picking
out the process of how how to begin kind
of like layering the video throughout
like how how does that happen?
>> Um, yeah, I can go through that. And and
just to your last point, by the way, on
like like you know what Craig is doing
today, like he's just texting me. He's
reading a book by some Japanese
historian.
Yeah. Like, no. As in like it's not
about martial arts. He like he's he's
like he he knows about world politics
and history. Like he's he's very smart.
Like he's going to keep acting [ __ ]
but but but he is he that's and I think
that's the beauty of him, right? I mean,
I guess you're not that funny if you're
not that smart. So, in terms of like um
in terms of shooting and ideas, like it
depends on your style. I make videos in
a very painful way, which is I want to
capture like what's really going on and
then figure out the story, the full
story after the fact. And that means you
have a lot of footage. That means
editing is a pain. It means it takes a
time. But that's really the most honest
way to try and capture something. But
then if you go in just like, let me just
film everything with no plan, you also
may not end up with a story. So that's
the challenge. Um, so typically what I
do is I try and um figure out how I can
capture every everything I need to tell
a story before I shoot. And then what
are some interesting things I should
capture where like I may use it for a
story or I may not. Um, and then I also
think about like a theme or like what am
I interested in beyond the story. So
like I can give you like an example with
the Joseph video. Craig's ones are a bit
more like um improvised, but like with
the Joseph trials video that I dropped
on my channel that people seem really to
like, I just went in there with a
central question in my mind of like
what is a day like in the life of an
athlete like Joseph when he's competing
considering he doesn't like competing.
He's so good, but he doesn't even like
it. So, what is that like? And then I'm
like, okay, can I package that for
YouTube in a way that works? Because I'm
making it for YouTube. What's the format
or what's an idea? I'm like, okay,
people like numbers. If I could call it
24 hours of Joseph Chen, then okay, I
can package that in a way. And then I'm
like, could I communicate that through a
thumbnail? I'm like, yeah, I could show
him eating breakfast. I could show him
with a medal. Maybe if he wins, like,
okay, so this I can show that it's it's
something that makes sense for YouTube.
And if I was doing it for a movie, it'd
be different. I was doing for TV, the
elements are different. Then the next
thing is like um how does it start and
how does it end?
I need to know that because I'm telling
a story, it's very important that I know
how it starts and how it ends. And
and is there something about that that
can make me very excited? excited enough
where I'm going to take money out of my
own pocket, buy a ticket, fly out there,
film for lots of hours, run around for
like a 14 hour shoot day, come home with
hundreds of gigabytes of footage,
and then go through the pain of editing
it. And so for me in this and and then
there's also like the question of theme.
So for me it's like if I can if I can
start the documentary saying good
morning to him literally being there
from the moment when he wakes up and if
I can end it saying good night to him
that excites me right and like I'm going
to sleep I was planning to sleep on his
floor and I was going to ask him what
time his alarm would ring so that I
could beat him
>> to because I know you can fake it but
that's very important to me. So, what
would happen if you like overslept?
>> I'm not sleeping that night properly
anyways because I know I got to wake up
before him.
>> Um, I put like three alarm like when I
got lost in Area 51 with Craig, I put
three alarms next to my head.
>> So crazy.
>> That would ring 5 minutes before he woke
up so I could go bang on his door
because he's funnier when he's grumpy.
M
>> like I will like Craig goes very far out
of his way for a joke and I will go very
far out of my way for a video to feel
real, right? And you know at the end of
that day, Joseph was done at 11 p.m. But
he didn't sleep till a.m. He's
talking to his girl. He's talking to his
mom. He's showering. I don't know what
the [ __ ] else he's doing. And I'm just
sitting there with the camera trying not
to fall asleep
so that I could then go to and like I
don't know if he's tired. I don't know
if he's grumpy. I don't feel like he
doesn't want. He's very nice, but you
know, you feel like it's a position. And
I was just listening for when he's like
seems like he's a and I don't want him
to go to sleep without me. I stayed up 4
hours just to get just to say, "What do
you think of today and good night?"
Right? So those things I knew before I
was going to shoot.
>> But people don't that like when you're
watching like people aren't going to
know like that.
I don't know. So it takes so much time
to get something like that and then some
people just don't even notice it right
off the rip which you kind of think
>> yeah which is fine you know like that's
you know as long as if there's certain
story I'm happy there's certain aspect
of it I'm happy I just know the way I
got to do it to be motivated and the way
I got to do it has to feel real and in
order to feel real I'm not that good at
an actor has to be real right and I'm I
was very inspired by like the 70s and '
80s especially the 70s filmmakers that
would go you know they want to shoot
Apocalypse now they went to a jungle in
the Philippines.
There's like there's things you can't
fake and I and I kind of feel like to
capture that it's important. And then
the only other two things I go in with
is like um I look at the day and think
what is the structure of that day and
what will I need early and what will I
need later to tell a story. So, I
thought in advance, I'm like, "Okay, I
need to talk about Joseph's goal early
in the day, and I need to set up who the
other characters are early in the day."
And then whatever happens happens.
Whatever wins or lose, I don't know. But
I knew I had to get that early in the
day cuz if I do that at night, I can't
see that early,
>> right? And then I just think about other
little elements like, "Oh, is there
going to be conflict?" Yes, cuz him and
all his friends are fighting. Um, and
then the last most important element is
a theme that I care about exploring a
question that like whatever the answer
is is interesting, which is for me,
Joseph's going to fight. He may win, he
may lose, but his friends are going to
fight. Who may win and they may they may
lose. And so what is that going to do to
each other? What's the emotional toll of
that?
Right? Like Joseph's competitive with
Kenta. What's it going to be like if
Kenta loses?
What's it going to be like if Joseph
wins and Kenta loses? What if Kenta wins
and Joseph loses,
>> right?
>> That was really interesting to me as
well. So, these are the things I think
about. The rest, who the hell knows
what's going to happen.
>> I I just really enjoy that aspect of
like watching videos like that,
especially of yours. Just just hearing
the story because you do you mostly do a
lot of voiceovers and then hearing the
music change from like a happy or more
serious tone. Like those are the things
that I'm like, "Oh, that that really
kind of changes the way I see the theme
now because there's a different
soundtrack in the back." Like when or
you said that you previously had
experience in making that, but like when
did you realize how important those
aspects of film making were kind of just
having those sounds and soundtracks
along with with the
>> Yeah, I'm like a I'm a film nerd for
sure. Like all every single book there
is about making movies and videos. So
like Yeah. So, and then like
this this one's this one changed the
game for me. It's called Hearts of
Darkness. So, it's about the making of
Apocalypse Now. And like one thing I
learned early was like the making of a
movie is way more interesting and
psychotic than the actual movie. So,
these guys flew to the jungle in the
Philippines. Everything fell apart. I
saw this when I was like 18. And this
like it's like pixelated. It's old. It's
it's film by the wife of the guy who's
directing a movie who was slowly
watching her husband go insane.
So like I'm very interested in the
making of of movies and documentaries
and you know when I was Ethiopia Craig
we called it heart of darkness. It's a
tribute to that. Um,
>> and but like so I was always interested
in the stuff, but you know,
interestingly, Road to CGI did not have
any music the first one. Almost none
>> because I just didn't think I had good
taste in music and I didn't have time. I
didn't have time for perfect audio. I
didn't have time for color grading, none
of that. Um, but what happened was when
I went to South America with Craig,
uh, I like had a bit more time to edit
and I felt like telling a South American
story without music is a bit it's like
seems like a it's like food with no
spice. It's like, what are you doing? I
wanted to I wanted to communicate a
feeling. And I thought because I didn't
know much about music, I wouldn't I
would just have bad taste. But I
thought, let me try it and let me just
do it with the goal of how do I want you
to feel? Don't overthink it. It's just
what is the feeling I want people to
get. And I started including it in that
first one with um where Craig had a
girlfriend in Colombia. And it people
really like the music. Like one of the
top comments like, "Oh, I love the
music." So I was like, "Oh, I just have
to find a way to find something that
sounds like how I want people to feel."
>> And so that's how I do it now. And now I
can't live without music.
But it's a recent addition. I really
look at my film making like software
updates, right? I didn't used to add
music. I didn't used to mix. Now the
sound is better. I'm like slowly
evolving even though it's been a long
journey.
>> Mhm. Are you going to ADC in Poland?
>> Uh no. I just didn't think of a story
that interested in me.
>> Interesting.
>> Yeah. Like so at this stage now it's not
about like okay I know I can get access.
I know I can film. I know I can ask an
athlete. They probably say yes. Like
Craig is a good business card for that.
But then it's like, is there a story
there that interests me? And there
wasn't really like it would feel like a
rehash of my trials doc. But like Joseph
is running a camp in Shanghai for ADCC
and it's the first time he's not going
to go to B team and he's not going to go
anywhere else. So this is the first ever
World Championship camp that'll be run
out of China and that's interesting. So
maybe I'll go China. like I'm trying to
figure out if if I can make it work. But
so I'm I'm just motivated by a story.
That's interesting to me.
>> Yeah.
>> Um I I I think that that the videos are
are done really well and I I I do see
kind of like the the aspect of kind of
just like seeing the the process, you
know, I feel like that really interests
me the most. And is there any movies
that I know we mentioned Apoc apocalypse
now, but any other film making uh things
that really influenced you cuz you said
that as a kid you you wanted to make
videos like even as a kid what what are
some movies that that really uh hit
home? Yeah, I would say like I had eras,
right? And it it's all highly dependent
when you're born, but like the my
parents were like immigrants from like
India and Indonesia effectively. And
like so they only really understood like
comedy, right? So they weren't coming
home with like Oscar winners. My dad
came home with like Coming in America.
Like look at Eddie Murphy looking at all
funny and then Ghostbusters and stuff
like that. And then um my family really
liked to laugh like it was it's a it was
like a chaotic house like my dad was a
drunk go crazy a lot of the time but he
would like but the time everyone was at
peace it was just watching comedy and
stuff so early on it was just comedy
Seinfeld anything like we just leave it
on a lot and I would watch it again and
again and I so my first love was always
TV and movie comedy and I think that is
very influential from the perspective of
timing
Like, and I'm not talking about telling
a joke. Like, everything is timing when
you're telling a story or when you're
editing something. It's like cooking.
It's like timing and temperature. How
intense? Alo. So, that was the early
influence of like, oh, I like American
stuff and comedy. And I watch that stuff
a lot. Then when I went to university,
like anybody, I thought I was like some
like some film genius. So, then I
started watching the classics. And I
think, you know, these are like stuff
from the 60s. Like my my girls always
like, "Hey, you gonna make me watch
something black and white?" So like I
>> Yeah. So like I would say the the 80s
and the 70s movies were really good from
a perspective of like showing me how to
do something hands-on and tell kind of
wild stories where you get your hands
dirty. Like the making of the movies
were way more interesting than the
actual movies from that era to me. And
so that's how I learned what it was like
to commit and make stuff yourself. Um
like principles of like don't wait for
funding, just make it. And if you're
making something interesting enough, it
will find you. And I still apply that to
this day. And then basic cinematic
storytelling techniques you can learn
from those old movies. Like how do you
tell a story visually, right? Um like
when Joseph had just won trials.
Um I I I could sense he was a bit like
like he was sad about Kanta before he
fought, right? So
I felt like he was going to go look for
Kenta. I just had I had an instinct cuz
I know him. So I just like let me get
ready. Let me turn on the as much auto
shake removal from the camera as I can
and let me just let it roll. I'm just
gonna follow him all the way. And that's
a cinematic technique, right? That's
like a visual. Let me follow him, go
through the whole arena to try and find
his friend. So those things you can
learn from like classic movies. And then
the last thing is the authenticity of
YouTube and documentary film making,
right? So I love documentaries. People
like Warner Herszog and like Grizzly
Man, things like that are really good,
but YouTube teaches you to be authentic
and that I think was very influential as
well along with like a lot of
documentaries and stuff. So, I'd say I'm
like the three pillars for me were like
comedy, then real classic cinema for
like visual storytelling and then
documentaries and YouTube for like
authenticity,
>> right? And with speaking of
authenticity, like when you talked about
getting that shot at the Joe Rogan
podcast, the way you broke that story
down, it felt like I was like the one
trying to hold the camera. I felt the
intensity of that moment. Um, just the
way that you described that felt like it
was uh was it felt like it was done
really well. Like can you describe that
moment maybe for the listeners out there
of like um this what this moment meant
to you to capture this specific shot
that you cuz from what what we could
tell is like you take your your job very
seriously like if you have something in
mind you're going to stay up. You're
going to you're going to get the shot.
So with that that in mind or um how how
was that moment in your head like just
playing out in real time?
>> Yeah, I like um
I view my job in a way like a public
service meaning somebody's got to
capture this stuff and share it. Um and
so like and I feel like I'm a good
person to do that. So I wasn't want to
be the one to try and do that for like
interesting things like Craig or
whatever like because I I just feel like
nobody gives as much of a [ __ ] as I do.
It's just how I got to feel, right? So
like for me that is a big thing and a
big responsibility. So if I have access
I have access on behalf of everybody. So
when we're on Joe Rogan and we're behind
the scenes and I'm still getting to know
these guys and I'm just there to get one
shot because the podcast is public,
right? You you'll see what happens. But
what happens behind the scenes when
Rogan sees money for the first time?
Right. And so I was getting ready just
waiting waiting in the studio that
you've seen for years. And I'm like,
"It's my time." And the second he walks
in, he looks at me and looks at the
camera. And I had approval from him to
shoot. But the way he's looking at my
camera, it's almost like like I just
snuck in there. So I'm like, "This is
not going to go well." And then I'm just
trying to get the shot cuz I just need
two seconds. And like before I know it,
they're gone. And I don't know if I have
the shot. And I'm like, this is like
I've ruined it for everybody in my mind,
right? And then I'm trying to see if I
got the shot. I mean, eventually turns
out I had the shot. I was shooting on
autopilot, but I think in in, you know,
I'm making a series now. Um, and it
should be 14 episodes, right, on and
it's like that's a working number and
it's the story of me trying to survive
my own dream job, right? is following
Craig around for those what really
happened behind the scenes for those 100
days and it started out as that the name
was going to be surviving 90 days with
Craig Jones but and I'd released it that
way then my girl's like it's not very
clear what it's about she's like how
about the untold story of CGI1 I'm like
it's not very clickbaity but it's very
clear so that'll be the name of the
series for now right the untold story of
CGI1 and I'm only doing that series for
really
for like two, three reasons. Like I got
to make videos. I just got to, right?
It's it's a n itch. I'm miserable when I
do it. I'm miserable when I don't. I got
to do it. But the motivation for this
series, honestly, was to practice
storytelling, like writing,
>> and to practice telling a story, cuz I'm
not actually used to being on camera all
the time. So the only reason I'm doing
this series and I will do it at least 14
to 15 times not it's because there's
that much story but also it's because I
want to practice. So when you call out
that story and you like it that means a
lot because like that's the whole reason
I'm doing this and and what I'm thinking
about when I tell a story is really just
the basics of like what is my goal and
what's in the way of that goal and what
was I honestly feeling. And if you go
back to some of my earlier videos that I
tried to talk about my experiences with
Craig, like it was this happened and
this happened. It's not about how I
felt.
So people know how you feel, what you
want, and what's not working or working.
Any story is good.
>> I like I I really I really like that.
And with with you, you know, talking
about the the new series and stuff like
that, do you feel like you're just
getting started in this type of job?
because I'm like, man, if I were to do
something, it would probably be
something like what you're doing, but at
the same time, it's like it's not the
most like guaranteed, you know? It's
like I've I've tried to talk to other
people about it and just like, you know,
traveling and using jiu-jitsu as kind of
like a vehicle to create opportunities
and stuff like that, but it's just I
don't know, nothing really piques my
interest like that. And I really can't
expl it into words why. I just feel like
there's something special about the
people who train. Not even just
jiu-jitsu, but just martial arts as a
whole. There's this like competitive
aspect, like spiritual type of thing
because you constantly have to deal with
uncertainty and if you win, if you lose,
all these different variables pop up,
but like they still want to do it. Like
people would quit whatever job they have
to just go train more. That blows my
mind.
>> Yeah. I mean, it's it's always a
struggle, right? Whether it's it's easy
or hard in jiu-jitsu. I think for me,
it's just that you like the story.
There's a lot of interesting people
whose stories are not being told well in
my opinion. So, that's the motivation
for jiu-jitsu. It's like there's
interesting characters and I want to
like try and help and give back because
jiu-jitsu has done a lot for me. As much
as I hate it at at times and my
shoulder's a bit torn right now, like
it's done so much for me. So, I want to
give back and I like it's a skill that I
bringing to jiu-jitsu that has nothing
to do with jiu-jitsu in actuality. Like
when I I was making videos long before I
knew jiu-jitsu was a thing. And when I
shoot Craig, I don't shoot him like I'm
making a jiu-jitsu video. I shoot him
like I'm trying to shoot Louis Thuru or
Anthony Bourdain. I'm shooting it like
an adventure
documentary chaotic thing. I'm not
shooting it I want it to be cinematic. I
want to be a bit storytelling. I want to
be funny. Like none of those necessarily
have anything to do with jiu-jitsu.
>> Yeah.
>> Like that's that's what that's my
contribution hopefully to this. That's
what I'm trying to bring.
>> Yeah. And you you brought up Anthony
Bourdain a few times. You've actually
met him before, right? Like
>> I saw on your Instagram. Yeah.
>> That's How was that experience? You
know, meeting him because if you guys
don't know Anthony Bourdain, he's kind
of like the Craig Jones but like with
food like he goes everywhere or and just
like how was it meeting him like for the
first time? I mean, I was so I was in
the Philippines at and that was the gym
I started at and like um I was a white
belt at the time and then I heard he was
in town shooting an episode and like I
knew there weren't that many gyms at the
time so I had a feeling there was a
chance he'd show up at our gym. It's
like a small, you know, Philippines is
100 million people but in terms of like
where I was at is a small area. So, you
know, he's going to come through. Um and
so I think they put a chat a message in
one of our chats for the gym. Viber,
it's what they use in the Philippines
for chat and they're like, "Hey, special
guest coming for lunch." I was like, "I
know who that is." I ran and then I just
watched and then I I didn't want to be
rude or anything. So, I just like
observed from afar and ease dropped a
little bit like everybody was, right?
Because I'd grown up watching this guy
and I'm more fascinated with him as a
storyteller and an author. Like his show
was great, but like like me and like
everybody, the show gets better with
time the more reps you put in. But the
rawness and the authenticity like of of
the way he told the story was really
interesting to me. So I was like, "Oh,
it's like an idol and inspiration. Let
me go try and meet him." And then I was
too shy to talk to him. And then it
turns out he came back the next day. And
then I had a ghee. I put on my my one
expensive ghee, which wasn't expensive
in hindsight, but I had my key. And then
he was there. And then like, you know,
he was rolling. He was like like
you could hear him talk and it sounded
like in the show. That's his voice. Very
distinct voice. And everything he says,
it feels like you're watching the show.
And then as we rolled a little bit, he's
trying to debar people. And then he was
sitting uh uh like near the entrance of
the gym. And it it was like I think um
McGregor had just knocked out Aldo like
the day before. It was it was back then,
right?
>> Yeah.
>> So I just So I was like, "Do you enjoy
the fights?" Because I know he likes
talking about sports.
and jiu-jitsu. And he's like, "What? Oh,
8 seconds of it." Haha. And then I
started chatting with him. And then he
was super friendly and super nice. And
then I I went in a shower and then he
came in as well. And then he just
stripped down and like this full of
tattoos, skinny six-pack era bourdain.
And then and then uh we hung out and
chatted a bit. And I think he's going to
get high and eat Jollibee. So
yeah. So
>> yeah, those are the types of people that
you get to meet, you know, training
jiu-jitsu and hearing all these
characters and, you know, now we have
like Zuckerberg and, you know, Joe Rogan
talk about
and stuff like that. Um, why do you
think that is? Like I've tried to ask
other guests on on this, you know,
podcast. So what like why why do you
think jiu-jitsu brings these types of
characters in kind of just one space?
>> Trauma bonding in a way. How so?
>> Like as if everybody has the same
experience. There's no shortcut. You
come in not knowing much and curious and
either you're the type to stick with it
or you're not,
>> right? And then if you're the type to
stick with it, you want like you want
other people to talk to it about and you
can relate to people. It's and it's
like, you know, you got to you have to
be interested in this to keep doing it
cuz it's not always pleasant, right?
you're tired, you're sore. Excuse me.
You can get injured. Um, so I think
people just It's like meeting a member
of a secret club that's not that secret,
you know. Uh, my my wife was at a party
the other day, a workrelated one. It's
like a house party, and there's like,
you know, it's awkward cuz it's like the
boss calls everybody in, and I don't
know if everybody wants to be there or
not. And then she sees this one sad
looking guy and then um he's like he
looks like the most lonely man on earth
at this point. And I think he just
mentions something like uh jiu-jitsu. I
like jiu-jitsu. I have a black belt or
something. Then she goes up to him, my
girl, and she say, you know, what do you
think of the whole Andre Galva thing?
And then he his face lights up and then
he just wouldn't leave her alone. He's
just talking the whole time. Then she
finds out I make the videos and this and
that. And then you like he lit up like a
Christmas tree.
Yeah. So it's interesting. I mean,
there's definitely that bond. I think
it's just a it's the communal
experience. I think
>> I think so, too. I think one of my like
where I make my friends in jiu-jitsu is
just like just like those things like
you mentioned B team. Those are kind of
like the key phrases that you kind of be
like, "Oh, you watch B team? Oh, you
watch these." And then it's like you're
able to kind of connect on that certain
like your family members wouldn't really
understand. The cool thing that about
training with my brother is like he
knows you, he knows Craig, he knows
Joseph. So when I make these videos like
bro I made a video with Joseph Chen it's
like it's like the coolest thing to
explain that because it's like not
everybody would understand what that
necessarily means. You know some people
don't know necessarily know about MMA
then you have to get into jiu-jitsu and
you have to talk about B team. It's like
it's it doesn't feel as niche but it it
kind of is in the grand scheme of things
you know.
>> Yeah. And I think like it's a shared
experience right that you have to
experience to understand. And I think we
all have that shared experience. Um, so
I think that's definitely part of it for
sure.
>> What What are some lessons that you've
learned from progressing from white belt
to brown?
>> I think number one, don't get injured,
especially if it's avoidable because as
long as you keep training, you get
better. There's no way you don't like as
long it's like compound interest. Like
if you tell me 10, 11 years ago, I'd
still be training. I wouldn't believe
it. And if you told me I'd be anything
beyond a blue belt, I wouldn't believe
it. And I'm not that, you know, I'm
taking kind of a normal path. That's
almost 10 yearsish at Brown Belt. Some
people get in four black belt, but I'm
taking kind of a normal path and it's
just because I didn't quit. So, if you
can avoid a catastrophic injury and you
just keep doing it, you'll get it. Like,
it's not even a question. It's just that
I've seen the most incompetent people
and I've seen the most skilled people,
the finish line's the same. It's just
cuz they didn't quit. Um, so I think
that's that's part of it. And then um
some of the other lessons are like it
becomes a lot more fun when you find
your own style.
Um somewhere around like blue belt you
start figuring out like what's my take
on this and then that's when it becomes
really fun and it only gets more fun
from that stage onwards.
>> So I think that was really important.
>> Yeah. probably helped me out a lot
because
>> sometimes I I didn't really understand
like you know what I was getting myself
into when I first signed up you know
what it was going to do to my body my
mental like I feel like I feel like a
different person you know a lot of
people say you know jiu-jitsu's changed
my life I feel like it already has like
I already have like a YouTube channel
where I make videos about jiu-jitsu and
do interviews and stuff so can't really
go back but just like understanding just
the the process of things and getting to
talk to different types of people
everybody has a different take on it too
so Um that that that helps to know that,
you know, as soon as you start, you
know, learning things and how to do
them, you know, like you want to. Um I
feel like Craig Jones has like
conspiracy type of like a conspiracy
theory type of style of jiu-jitsu. Like
sometime I watch his instructional like
side control is not a real position. I'm
huh I never really thought of that. Like
I never really thought of like yeah you
can hold side control but like you have
to move to advance. Like yeah I never
the way he thinks about things is just
pretty pretty weird. Are you a
conspiracy theorist or have are you uh
familiar with like the 10th planet type
of uh ecosystem of uh of things?
>> A bit of everything, but like you know,
I think one of the things you learn over
time is you roll like your personality.
>> Like if you hate to rules in real life,
you're going to find some grinding weird
boring style perhaps. I don't know. And
like if you're unorthodox and creative
like Craig, you end up rolling like
Craig, right? And I think like that
defines a lot of what you do. And so for
me, I've always been fascinated by like
I used to use it as a creative outlet
and I don't want to do real exercise. So
jiu-jitsu is just right for me. I don't
like I need to start lifting weights and
all that, but like it's just fun and
it's creative and I like it. And like
you know I don't like I'll give you
specific examples, right? Like I don't
necessarily want to hurt anybody, but if
you throw your head into a guillotine,
it's on you,
>> right? So it's like it's like my my
personality is in there. Uh, I like to
do weird things like if I can do octopus
or this or that. Like it's way more fun
and I would rather screw up trying to do
something fun than win doing something
boring. Like it's all about fun and
creativity for me. Um, so I think that
varies a lot for everybody. I think like
Craig is so technical. He's so
technical, right? He does the goofy
stuff, but he's technical. Um, so I
wouldn't say I'm a conspiracy theorist.
I think I'm just uh I'm just down for
some fun. Just try and do
>> anything I can, you know, and like learn
and just get a little better every time.
>> Like now I'm like interested in
wrestling. So that's kind of my focus.
Like things change over time.
>> Time. Nice.
>> Uh what I was thinking right now is like
if Craig were to call you right now is
like, "Hey man, we got to run it back CJ
one style." Like what do you say?
Um like I've learned a lot from the
first experience, right? Um and we talk
every day like as of now like the CGI 2
period we weren't as active cuz we so
busy and I wasn't as involved and then
since then like we've been messaging and
talking a lot. Um and you know we always
I think there's a shared experience we
have of going through that whole thing
together and he's a creative person so I
think he likes to talk to other creative
people. Um, and I think part of me
thinks subconsciously I'm like one of
the ties he has in his life to like a
normal life. Like I'm not trying to be
like Craig. I don't want to go crazy
adventures all the time. I'm like I got
a wife. I'm like, you know, I'm like and
I'm a chill like Asian dude. I'm not I'm
not on TRT like every I'm like, you
know, I'm just I'm just a nerd which I
think it's okay for him to connect with.
Um, so I've learned some lessons though,
like, you know, we clearly defined
dates. What was really hard about last
time was I couldn't tell my girl when I
was coming home because he didn't know.
And I can't live like Craig. And that
was so hard on her. Like that not only
am I going I don't know when I'm coming
back. I know I'm coming back at some
point in the next 100 days for a little
high, but that was so hard on her and
it's hard on my relationship. So like
number one, okay, we define dates. Um,
number two, I have a will. I'm not gonna
try to do anything dangerous, but now I
have like a will just in case. Uh, and
number three, no war zones. That's
already been stipulated by my girl. No
active war zones, which Craig has a
loophole. He's like, "Everywhere is a
war zone." I'm like, "No, no, no. You
know what she means? If there's tanks,
>> we're not supposed to be there."
>> U, but I would I would love it, man.
Like, I like making stuff with him. Uh,
he's been really good to work with as a
person. I consider him a friend. Um, and
I love, you know, you got to make stuff
about somebody. You got to make stuff
about something. And I feel like we're
barely scratching the surface of like
what me and him can make together.
>> I'm here for it, man. Um, some other
things that I've noticed is like you
have a you're like a YouTube consultant
as well. Is that something you like on
the side?
>> Yeah.
>> I mean, like um because I don't want to
keep traveling all the time making
videos and most of my income is when I'm
filming with somebody on the road. Like
I've done it with Craig. I've done it
with Joseph and like sometimes it's from
a sponsor like maybe Joseph's, you know,
clothing sponsor will pay me or
something or I've done stuff with
Lachland for Sub Meta. Um, so a lot of
my money is made though on the road. Um,
and like I've I did that promotion Mike
Perry launched that was a crazy [ __ ]
experience, the Dirty Boxing one. I was
filming with Mike Perry for a while in
that company. That's a whole other
tangent, but you know, like so I'm on
the road filming and making money, but I
want to be home as well. It's not so
healthy. So when I'm home, I consult
like just people call me if they have
problems. I'm like half therapist, half
like strategist and like I just give
them feedback. Like I'm trying to do the
stuff that the YouTube gurus don't do.
Like they don't talk to you. They give
you generic answers. I will like look at
a script with you. I will come up with
ideas for you and work with you and I'll
give you notes if you want or like
suggestions. So that's kind of what I
do. Um and then I help small businesses
out. like there's a physio that I'm
going to go see today. And they're so
nice. I was like, "You guys should be on
YouTube." So, I'm helping them build a
YouTube channel, even though I think I'm
losing money with every video, but like
it's the life you lead. It's
unpredictable life. If there's somebody
out here that's listening to this who
wants to start a YouTube channel or
wants to start filming in general, what
are some key things that you would tell
them to do um to start that that journey
and that process? Um, I think get one
out of the chamber immediately like
because you will overthink and there's a
good chance nobody will watch other than
your friends. It's okay. Like you know,
you tend to procrastinate cuz like oh
what will the world think? Blah blah
blah. Like nobody cares. So it's
important to get one out quickly. It's
like when you go into prison, you knock
somebody out straight away apparently,
right? So I would do I would do that
with a video. Like just get a video out.
It's not the world won't change
>> and if you keep doing it, you're going
to get better. So I'd say that's number
one. Number two, don't overthink the
equipment. Just get decent sound. If you
don't have a good mic, just be somewhere
quiet. Um, and number three, just find a
way to tell your own story, whatever
that is. Like, cuz the journey typically
is like, I'm going to try and be like
this person or copy that person. And you
do that. You try and get better by imit
imitating people. But you're only truly
get good when you try and tell your own
story and be honest. So, I think those
are like three top of- mind things. Feel
>> like that's a good list.
>> Yeah.
>> And and uh nobody knows how YouTube
works, so don't overthink the the
algorithm.
>> Yeah.
>> I I studied it forever. You know it as
well.
>> What was it like when your Hixon video
blew up?
>> Which one? Hixon. I didn't Okay. Okay.
That's a good question.
>> Um I didn't necessarily know how that
video was going to be received just
because like no one knows who I am. Like
I I made it Well, funny enough is like
before that that whole video I made, I
recorded um a vlog every day for like
over a year. So I made a vlog just going
to train. I talked like kind of like a
Sam Solic style talk before train, talk
after training. And I'm like I'm going
down a process. I'm like, "Yeah, I'm
getting better at, you know, talking on
camera. Getting a little bit more
comfortable sharing my personality
myself, but I feel like I'm putting
myself in a hole just like the quality
can't be that good, right? I'm I'm just
posting every day. Yeah, there was good
there was pros and cons with that. So,
I'm like, "All right, I'mma stop." It
was kind It felt like to for me it felt
like a very important or like a drastic
change because I'm I'mma stop doing
that. I did this for so long. Um I'm
going just stop and I'mma focus just
doing on one video. And the next video I
made was the video. So, it was like I
loved Hixon Gracie. I felt like he was
like a samurai or is like a samurai. So,
I'm like, "Bro, this is this would be
this would be cool. Talk about Hixon's
story. listen to his stuff. I just want
to share his story with other people. I
didn't make it about myself. I just made
it about him and how the feeling of how
his story makes me feel. And it wasn't
really too crazy. Like it felt like,
yeah, I get nervous sometimes when I
make videos like that because I don't
know how it's going to be received or
like who like um you know, maybe they're
trying like who is this guy? How long
has this guy been training? He doesn't
really know what he's talking about. Uh
those are things that enter in my mind,
but I felt like if as long as I can
share what I think he means to me, you
can't I can't really go wrong. And I've
got that advice from like Alex Ramoszi
and stuff like that where it's like, you
know, you could be yourself. You could
document how you feel. You don't
necessarily have to tell other people,
you know, what's due. But, you know, I
felt with that video, it represented of
what the videos I wanted to make. But
the thing that I feel like is it's been
harder for me is kind of just like what
what is going to be a video that does
that well? And I still necessarily
haven't found that. So, that's kind of
just like what that video does to me.
But it it's very interesting that you
mentioned that because I haven't really
thought of it like in in in depth like
that or at least out loud.
>> And how long did it take to blow up?
>> Um it was in spurts. I remember like it
necessarily was had it had like a very
slow, you know, thing. Like when I first
started my YouTube, I'm like I'm not
going to care about the views, you know,
I'm just going to post. Of course, you
know, people are like, you know, my dad,
he loves he loves numbers and stuff. So
he's like, you know, oh, this video is
doing pretty well. It's like, okay. when
I started looking at the views and stuff
and then it would jump from here and
there. Um I don't necessarily remember
like the specifics of when it it jumped
drastically, but it was like three, four
months later where it got a big rise,
you know, and um yeah, I actually got
recognized at my gym. He's like, "You
look familiar." And I'm like, "Do I?"
He's like, "Yeah, I love Hixon Gracie."
I'm like, "Dude, that's that's sick." I
didn't necessarily think it would have
that much of a reach. Um, so it's pretty
cool that it that video at least at
least that video, the Hajra video I felt
like um was kind of similar to that. And
I also made one on Joseph and the one it
didn't every video took different amount
of time um different kind of uh
intention behind the video. Some I think
the Joseph one I made in like 15 minutes
before I went to work. So I was like I
I'm I'm going make a video because it
was like I haven't made a video today.
Let me make a video on Joseph. I know a
lot about Joseph. I can I can do that.
And it was thought that was pretty cool.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. Yeah, I like randomly obviously
the algorithm showed me your Joseph
interview.
>> Um, and then I started listening and I
was like, "Oh, this so thoughtful and
researched like I said." And then I was
like, "Who is this guy?" So, let me
check out your channel and I'd seen the
Hixon thumbnail thing before. I think I
don't I may not necessarily watch it,
but I was like, "Oh, this is such a
great thumbnail and title. It's like
very well packaged." But then I looked
at you got like 600 something videos
and like you keep tripping away and I
was like, "Wow, so much respect." Like
as in to keep doing it no matter what.
Like some of the videos do great, some
of them do like lower numbers, but
they're all well-made videos and all
made with love. And I was like, what a
[ __ ] legend. That's why I messaged
you. I'm like, damn, man. Like, you're
doing good things and you work so hard.
I haven't made 600 videos.
Like, and it doesn't mean that just cuz
the numbers aren't high doesn't mean
they're not a good video. So, like,
yeah, I just I had to message you.
That's why I me I was in my kitchen. I
was like, I got to message this guy
right now. Well, I really appre It does
mean a lot actually just because like
it's a lot of time, a lot of effort
editing. I remember just like posting
every day like setting aside two hours a
day just to make sure I have a edit.
I've added to the jiu-jitsu to the music
because I'm like, okay, I'm trying to
make sure like the people could actually
try to watch it, you know? I I really
enjoyed kind of the the B team style of
stuff. So, I'm like, let me let me try
like you were talking about earlier with
emulating, let me try that Sam sole
jiu-jitsu type of vibe. See where that
goes. And then it started leading and
now I'm doing interviews with like UFC
fighters. I'm like, "What? This is sick.
This is awesome." So, I'm like, "Okay,
this is this is cool. Now I just kind of
just want to find my own groove and see
where, you know, what skills I need to
work on and and just kind of just like
use it as jiu-jitsu, realize like what
scares me, what do I need to improve on,
like what do I do well, and just
learning along the way." And it's been
super fun, you know, and just being able
to talk to you guys is cool, too.
>> Yeah. But one bit of advice I can give
you from my experience is like when when
it comes to making anything whether it's
YouTube or movies or whatever like the
reward for your success is being able to
make more of it. So if you want to keep
making that thing like you can but like
that's what you're going to be making.
So if you can figure out what you want
to make
>> and the reward is being able to make
what you want like that is that is the
win. It doesn't matter how big it is.
Like with my CJ series, obviously I know
I hope people watch. But at the end of
the day, it's like if it's just 800
people that watch every episode, that's
way more than enough because I got to
make what I want and that's the win.
>> Yeah. And it's funny enough that you say
it because it's like, you know, you can
make I could make video essays or I
could I could do more stuff. I I just
felt like in that time I was like, "This
is it." It felt right. And I'm not
saying other videos don't feel right
when I make them, but I just like I I go
off a feeling and instinct. So I'm like
I really don't feel that with another
fighter unless I feel something and then
I'm like cool. But like even with the
Joseph interview podcast, I talked to
Lynn for like four months and we try to
schedule a date and we couldn't like
figure out something together. So that
was the long thing in the process and
he's like, "Okay, I'm down today. I
stayed up all night and it's like, "All
right, cool. this is my time and and
honestly like
>> the buildup and like even like before I
get on here and I'm like I feel nervous
and stuff and I still get nervous before
interview even today I was like make
sure I want to make sure everything's
done well and right and you talk about
certain things and yeah I'm just trying
to find my own style along the way which
is cool. So I appreciate that you you
mentioned that cuz yeah it's it's it's
been a long it's it's been like a few
years but I've I've learned to enjoy the
process a little bit more than I did
before. and you got you got a man all
the way here in Asia uh feeling the the
love and the respect for everything you
do. So, and it's been great to chat like
it just feels like conversation.
Honestly, this is the least awkward
podcast ever been on.
>> Yeah, I mean that's that's the goal.
Like I really just want to be talk to
talk to someone, share their story,
share their experience, and say, "Yeah,
why I would I would of course want you
to feel comfortable and being able to
express yourself fully." It sucks being
like in an environment where you just
feel like you're you can't be yourself,
you know? I felt like that in school
where I'm like I had to be a certain way
and I didn't really necessarily feel
comfortable. But I as I've gotten older,
I felt a little bit more um in tune with
myself, I guess. So, it's helped out.
>> That's amazing. Episode two is ready, by
the way. I'm just waiting for Craig to
say if he wants to collab or not. And
then Lynn just messaged me and then and
then Yeah. Where the hell is Craig? He's
supposed to let me know if I can drop it
this weekend. shout out to mention me on
the IG store and I'll post it on you
know episode two because
>> yeah so yeah I think u yeah I'm very I'm
looking forward to u you know the series
coming out whatever tournaments you go
to I've never I mean I've been to Japan
but I've never been to Thailand or
Singapore or China anything like that
like um I think that would be like an
amazing experience but I don't know how
would you describe uh Singapore as to to
an American who's never been I think
very like it's a good um it's like a
gateway drug to Asia because it's like
safe, it's clean, they speak English,
everything's like it works. Like I I was
born in Indonesia which is like traffic,
corruption, craziness. I used to go to
India all the time. My dad lives there.
It's like jungles and then Philippines
is wild. Like my favorite parts of Asia
are the wilder parts. But Singapore and
Hong Kong are a great place to start.
like it's it's clean, it's organized,
it's the most functional um like country
in many ways and it's a good place to be
based. Like that's why I'm here. My wife
is Singaporean as well. So
>> is it is it like really affordable over
there to live over there?
>> It's the most expensive city on earth.
>> Yeah.
>> Literally, it's an award it wins every
year and nobody wants it to win every
like like it it wins it every year and
everyone's like, "Hey, I think this is
not good." And like I moved here when I
had a corporate job. So the fact that
I've survived three years without a
corporate job is an achievement unto
itself.
>> Yeah.
>> How do you describe like what you do to
somebody? Say like you're you're at a
bar at a party like hey what do you do?
Like what what do you say? Like what
what is something that you
>> Yeah. I don't know actually. It's it's a
tough one. I usually just say I'm like a
documentary filmmaker or something. I
make videos. It's like it's like easier
enough. Like I wouldn't call myself a
YouTuber because I don't like I feel
like only now am I putting myself more
in the videos, but I think I've just
always been somebody that makes
documentaries and shows. So, I just
treat it as an extension of that, I
suppose. Um, but yeah, it's a it's a
really fun part of the world, man. When
I was a kid, I always wanted to go to
US. I was like, let me go there and
become famous, right? That's my goal.
Let me become a director or producer.
And as I got a little older, and I mean
like mid20s, I'm like this is so fun.
>> Like now I don't want to leave Asia.
Like I'll go travel a bit, but it's like
just the amount of diversity and culture
you get everywhere. And I love Asian
food.
>> Um the hardest thing about traveling at
Craig in the beginning was not enough
Asian food. I would like be scratching
for rice in like 2, three days. You
know, I I'm here with glutenous rice
green tea, which is a tribute, by the
way, to your podcast with Joseph because
he was drinking a milk version of this.
>> I was wondering what drinking. I'm like,
what is that? It looks pretty cool.
Like, it was just
>> I ordered it yesterday, so it's a bit
watered down, but I ordered it
specifically for your pod to respect
tribute you and Joseph's episode.
>> All right, you'll catch me with some
green tea and only the ones who listen
will understand. Why does he have green
tea? But
>> yeah, I got to pay it forward.
Yeah.
>> So, yeah. Um, what was I gonna ask you?
I was gonna ask you uh
what was I what was I thinking of right
now? Maybe I'll come back in a little.
Oh, actually, if you've seen uh I think
well, since you you film a lot and you
appreciate the the film making editing
site, have you seen any of Peyton
Talbot's uh YouTube channel episodes?
>> You have?
>> Yeah.
>> Cuz I'm I'm friends with his his uh
videographer Andress and I feel like you
guys
>> Wow.
>> very well. So that's kind of the thing
that jiu-jitsu has like somehow granted
me with is the access to be able to just
talk to you guys because martial arts as
a whole and videography and all that
stuff. It just brings a lot of people
together. So I just maybe I don't know
maybe you guys will be like good friends
because you know creatively you guys are
on a different level just seeing things
and I feel like you guys are probably
just thinking of ideas in your head like
just when you're driving and stuff like
that too. So it's just like I don't
know. It's a it's a a skill that I wish
I really had and I wish I could practice
a little bit more.
>> For sure.
>> I mean, like there's like you don't need
to be obsessed in the same way. Like
it's because nowadays video is just
video, right? Like you can make a lot of
great things without like studying for
years and all that type of stuff. You
don't need film school anymore, you
know? So, I think that like I respect
all forms of video and then there's some
sociopaths like me that are just like
always thinking about it and always
looking at the world through that lens
and always thinking about ideas. I mean,
and by the way, like that small world
thing is important for me. Like when I
started jiu-jitsu, I was like, "Oh, I
have access here." Like, "Oh, I I knew
Joseph when he was a kid and then I met
Craig through this and then I met like
Mike Perry and all these UFC guys
through that, right? MMA fighters." And
then my end game, by the way, is like
shoot with a comedian. Like I want to do
a travel or documentary show with like
maybe Ronnie Chang or like or like
somebody like that. Um like there's a
tour, excuse me, going on right now like
Ronnie hates Hassan or something like
that. Like my end goal was always do a
documentary about comedian.
>> Wow.
>> That's my that was my attraction to
Craig. So if I could do Road to CGI with
the comedian, I'd be interested even
though I know they say they're really
boring in real life. That was like my
that's like my next step. I'd like to
get towards
>> that would be cool.
>> Yeah.
>> I mean, so are you like a fan of like
Kill Tony and stuff like that, too?
>> Uh, not as like I was more of a fan when
they were less big. Like they all seem
like they got such a big ego now that
it's a bit less, you know, I feel like
comedians should be underdogs.
>> Yeah.
>> Uh, so I I still love comedy, but like
the that old Rogan verse thing, it just
became a bit like too big. I liked it
when it was just like shitty streams.
>> Yeah. you know,
>> when you get involved with politics and
all this, I'm like, you kind of lose my
interest,
>> right? Or now I see a bunch of like I'll
go on YouTube and just see like videos
of just like the Rogan sphere and stuff
like that. I'm like,
>> yeah, I don't know. It used to be I
don't know. It used to be kind of
different. I was ne never necessarily
like super into comedy. Yeah, I like um
I like Shane Gillis and and Maguster,
but those are like some guys I feel like
just are like the boys, you know? You
know, they're just don't take themselves
too seriously, and that's kind of like
what I enjoy.
>> But, you know,
>> Yeah, same.
>> A lot of people
Like even like Eddie Bravo, you know, he
he does conspiracy uh conspiracy stuff
and he does like jokes and I I like that
side of things where it's like you're
kind of telling the truth, but in a way
it's digestible for the audience and
they just kind of maybe it is true cuz
everybody laughs because it's kind I
don't know. It's kind of like a cool
weird thing that about comedy is like,
huh, do we all think these types of
things or is like I don't know. It's
kind of like that's why I like it.
>> Yeah, same. And I don't like I mean like
and I'm hypocritical like when Tim Dylan
talks politics I find it funny. I just
don't like it when people think they're
so smart or authoritarian in in that
like such big authorities, you know? But
I would say I love comedy as like a
genre
>> more than it's just like standup comedy.
Like if something's funny, I just like
it. And sometimes it's something like
serious that's funny. Like it's not
meant to be. There'll be serious movies
like there will be blood and suddenly
there'll be like a guy slapped somebody
and like oh that's kind of comedic how
they did it.
>> Yeah. I was that was a lot more than I
necessarily thought I was uh going to be
asking you, but like I feel like in in
this uh in this context where you're
able to share a little bit about your
life, you know, about you know, you
starting at growing up as a person who
enjoyed film and then you know going
into kind of like the the the rat race
as some people might say and then
getting into the corporate world and
being like you know what, I'm gonna just
make videos and kind of follow your
passion. I really find it admirable that
you're able to take that leap and if you
didn't take that leap, we wouldn't have
those videos. Maybe it would be
completely different. Who knows what
would happen if there was no one filming
for CGI and as a whole. So, I think you
you played a big role in in that type of
process. So, I I just want to, you know,
give you your flowers and and let let
him know that, you know, a lot of the
work it it's really is it's starting to
be seen. I I wish you the best on
whatever you have planned next.
>> Likewise, man. I'm just excited to watch
you develop and grow as well. So, we'll
do it together.
>> We're trying for sure, man. For sure.
So, day by day, we'll be out there and
man, just want to thank you guys for um
listening. If you guys made it all the
way to the end, thank you guys. Make
sure you guys get your green tea and uh
appreciate Roit for for for sharing this
story with you
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