It didn't matter that my parents were
police officers. So, I start hiding my
bag and having my dad unknowingly
traffic. My mom's finding like 25 grand
in cash buried in her garden bed out
front. [music] I'm 16 years old. Two
cops upstairs. I had like 30 people on
[music] my doorstep with guns.
My mom gets a job with Seattle PD. My
dad, he ended up becoming a police
officer as well, you know. So,
>> I'm a literal cop family. I'm raised in
a police precinct uh from the time I'm
born essentially and I'm going on ride
alongs from the age of like seven eight
probably way too young but I'm you know
I that is such a part of my existence
that I'm seemingly going to be a cop
when I'm older you know it's I'm just
surrounded by by police officers and all
their friends and stuff and um so
as time goes on. I'm, you know, I'm I'm
growing. I'm becoming a teenager and I
get into uh skateboarding and uh that's
kind of where my path started to go down
a bad one is um I'm a street skater. So,
when you're a street skater to skate the
streets, you got to be, you know, in the
streets. So, when I'm a kid, my parents,
you know, they're dropping me off with
my friends, you know, behind the local
Safeway or, you know, QFC or something
and and we're skateboarding, you know,
but we're also,
you know, Idle Hands or the Devil's
Workshop, so we're getting into starting
to get into trouble. I'm
>> What's trouble like?
>> Shoplifting, uh, vandalizing schools,
smoking, um, drinking and things like
that. my parents are starting to kind of
see the writing on the wall of, you
know, this can't last. Like something's,
you know, it we're kind of on a bad path
here and
we might want to address this now. So,
they started, they had their own things
going on in their life at that time, but
um that's when we decided that we were
going to move and they picked us up and
>> it sounds like they decided.
>> Yeah.
>> You were just coming.
>> Oh, yeah. Yeah. And I was not happy
about that fact one bit. So you can
imagine being 15 years old. I had a
girlfriend in Maple Valley and you know
I have all my buddies but now it's we're
moving.
>> So a lot of teenage angst, a lot of
anger and I think they were thinking
that that would get me away from the
trouble but really it just kind of
ratcheted it up.
>> Why? How far did you move?
>> About 100 miles.
>> Holy [ __ ] Would they quit their jobs
and everything? I I thought you meant
like they moved across town.
>> No, they commuted. So, they stayed We
moved to Ellensburg, Washington, and
they stayed police officers in Seattle.
And that's kind of, like I said, when
things started to ratchet up for me.
Once we started to turn 15, 16, a lot of
the older brothers and sisters who were
in the game um started passing down the
harder drugs and the, you know, those
things to their younger brothers and
sisters. So that's when tons of
different drugs are starting to enter
the picture really quickly. It was
almost like an overnight thing. So I'm
seeing a lot of my 15, 16year-old
friends just get consumed by this world
while I'm on the other side of the
mountains. So naturally, I'm going to
start dabbling into that as well because
moving during that time, there was no
way I was going to allow my parents to
break my connection with my friends in
Maple Valley. So I'm constantly just
pestering them to let me go back and let
me go there for the weekend. So, um,
>> but they're aware. They're aware that
Are you just saying, "Oh, I just want to
go skate with my buddies." Exactly. But,
but they deep down you think like
they're aware like
>> Not yet.
>> Okay.
>> Not yet. It [snorts] It takes some time.
Um, because,
>> you know, naturally, if you're dealing
in drugs, you're eventually going to get
into some trouble.
>> Yeah.
>> Um, so
I'm going back and I'm really I'm just
using at first. I'm going to hang out
with my buddies. My dad's dropping me
off on a Friday and because he's
commuting um back to Ellensburg, he just
picked me up on a Sunday. So, just drop
me off. Not big of a deal.
>> Yep. Drop me off for the weekend. I just
hang out with my buddies and come home.
>> Uh but as um as these harder drugs are
starting to enter the picture, uh I'm
just fascinated with that world from
it's kind of like Good Fellas. As far
back as I can remember, I always wanted
to be a gangster. That was me. It didn't
matter that my parents were police
officers. It didn't matter that I was
raised in a good home or raised in the
church. None of that mattered to me at
that time. Is
>> this is what I'm fascinated with and
this is the path I want to go, you know.
So,
I'm just starting off just going over
there and hanging out. But eventually,
um, I get my license and during this
time is when I actually meet my first
real drug connect. Uh my friend's older
brother was actually connected to the
cartel and he was a major dealer for
them, a wholesaler. So he's, you know,
nothing crazy, but at least a few keys.
Like he's he's decent in the game. Um
and we're 15, 16 years old. So the first
chance I get when I get my license, my
first trip back is to Maple Valley. So
again, like you said, mom, dad, can I
go? you know, I'm going to pick up my
buddy Alex for the weekend. We're going
to come back home and just hang out for
the weekend. I'm going to bring him over
to my house and we're just going to hang
for the weekend.
So, I'm off and running. I get my
license. I make the 100 mile journey
back over there and uh
pull up to Alex's house and he's in
there with his brother in the garage and
there's a couple older Hispanic guys in
there with him. I've never seen him
before. And these guys are adults and
we're literal boys at this time. And
Alex, the last time I saw him, there was
still some innocence there. There were
still, like I said, we were still
skating. We still had some of those
child qualities, but when I came back,
>> he was different. He was a man now.
>> And there was no time for games. There
was no time for, you know, any joking
around. It was it was very evident that,
you know, time had changed Maple Valley
and time had changed him.
So, we're hanging out for a little bit
and uh the Hispanic guys, his older
brother, they take off, they split, they
didn't really say much. Um, so we're
we're hanging. I'm like, "All right,
buddy. You ready to ready to take off?"
And he's like, "Yeah, yeah, yeah, but
real quick, you want to see some crazy
shit?" I'm like, "Is that even a
question?"
>> Right. So he walks over and he shuts the
garage door and uh walks over to the c
the far cabinet on the wall and he pulls
down these three shopping bags and sets
them on the ground. Like the first thing
I notice is just the smell. The whole
garage just filled up with this potent
like if you've ever smelt a paint booth
like when you paint cars or like a
really strong chemicals vinegary type
smell. So, I have no idea what what it
is. And I walk over and I look down and
all three bags, those shop plastic
shopping bags, they're filled to the
brim with pure, just giant rocks. And
because he's a wholesaler, I think
that's why they weren't in key form.
He's just breaking them up and
>> people are coming through and he's
serving them, you know, few ounces here,
few ounces there or whatever. Um,
so
he leans down and cracks off a big big
stone, probably like a half ounce stone.
Was like, "Now we're ready to go."
>> Okay.
>> I'm like, "Okay." [laughter]
So we hop in the truck and we make the
journey back. And after that, I'm like,
"Don't you think he's going to notice
you taking these drugs?" He's like,
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I was talking to Johnny about this, like
probably noticed. I think that was a big
[laughter]
a big beef between him and his brother.
They were constantly messing with each
other like that. But so we uh we take
off back to my house and we come in and
we Hey, mom and dad. You know, we're
just say our hellos to them. And like I
said, they're police officers,
>> right?
>> My whole life.
>> So, um,
still they don't think I'm they think
I'm doing good. that I'm not no I've
never really gotten in trouble for drugs
at this point, you know, mainly just
like I said that petty kid [ __ ] just
vandalizing and things like that. But
>> so they're just thinking I'm just
hanging out with my buddy. Well, we go
downstairs and uh instantly is like,
"You want to play a game?" "Okay, what
what game is this?" He's like, "You have
Scarface, right?" I'm like, "Yeah,
throw that [ __ ] on." He goes, "Okay, so
every time Tony does a line in the
movie, we got to do a line."
Okay. And you're talking about a kid who
has no tolerance whatsoever. And Alex is
he's surrounded by it every day. He's a
Coke dealer. His older brother's a Coke
dealer. So, I could only imagine he's,
>> you know, doing this.
>> Yeah. Yeah. And this is pure Peruvian
flake. It is top-of-the-line [ __ ] Um,
but me, I've maybe done it twice before
this. Like, and then every time it's
just pure garbage. Just powdery
[ __ ] Not not like this stuff. This
stuff was like a different drug. It
didn't even look the same. You know what
I mean? So, he's he's just line line.
He's doing lines when Tony isn't even
doing lines in the movie, you [laughter]
know? Said I I can pretty quickly barely
keep up, you know? I'm I'm struggling
immediately and uh kind of notices he's
kind of sees me sitting back not not
really doing too well and is like checks
in. You doing okay, man? Like
yeah. Yeah, I think I'm okay. And the
feeling kind of passes. I'm starting to
feel like this anxious jittery feeling,
you know, will make you feel jittery,
but it was something that I had never
felt before.
Well, he lifts up the plate to do
another line. I take that line back and
I am gone. Instantly I fall back and I
start seizing.
>> Um
I don't know how long I was out. I think
probably about 5 10 minutes because when
I wake up he is I have a wet washcloth
on my forehead. I have throw up from my
all the way down my chest. I'm soaked in
sweat. My bed is soaked. and he's just
on the phone balling like I don't know
what to do. He's not waking up, you
know. And I'm 16 years old, two cops
upstairs, you know, and he's downstairs
with me doing the funky chicken
[laughter]
oing. And so he's he has no clue what to
do. Like this is this is bad. And it
right then is when I I woke up out of
nowhere and, you know, came back to
life. But yeah, um and then from that
that like I just I feel like drugs
really um I always felt like I had a
hole inside of me my whole life. I don't
know why. Um but I just felt this hole
there. And drugs were the thing that
always seemed to fill that hole is I
just never felt comfortable in my own
skin. And I always felt like I'd look at
people on the street and be like, "Man,
I wish I knew what they felt like." You
know, I wish I what I I knew what it
felt like to be normal. And when I did
drugs, I felt like that was finally the
thing that filled that hole and made me
feel, you know, it sounds silly, right?
It's
>> I guess maybe not to some people because
drug people do drugs for a reason,
right? They work, you know, they do the
job until they
>> destroy your life.
>> Yeah. [laughter]
But so immediately the next day I'm
sniffing again. I'm barely able to
breathe because I barely certain I had a
heart attack or at least I stroked out a
little bit. And so I'm I'm still doing
it. You know it. I had countless moments
in my life like that where it was like
you have the chance to go a different
direction right now. And God was always
putting those in my path. But for
whatever reason, I would always just
choose to go the opposite direction, you
know. And
>> how bad would that have looked for your
parents?
>> Oh my gosh. I can't even imagine,
especially for him. He was talking about
killing himself because, you know, like
I don't blame him. He's one, you have
two cops upstairs. Two, your brother's
connected to the cartel, right? Legit
connect.
>> Who was he on the phone with?
>> His girl.
>> His girl. Oh, okay. I thought I didn't
know if he called his brother to say,
"This is what I did. What do I do?"
>> He may have. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, he may
have. But yeah, I actually talked to his
his ex-girlfriend yesterday about that.
I was like, "Was that you on the phone?"
She's like, "Yeah, that was me."
>> But yeah, so he's freaking out. And
luckily I I snapped out of it. Um but
it didn't deter me one bit.
>> It didn't deter me. So
>> I'm still um I'm still on that path. And
this is when I actually start selling
cocaine is um I now I have this amazing
connect and I live in a college town.
Ellensburg's a college town. So if you
can't get cough or any drug off in that
town, there's something wrong with you,
you know. So I'm 16 years old and I set
up my little operation,
>> right?
>> Um running back and forth over the
mountains just getting a couple houses.
>> This is just kind of to pay for your own
habit
>> pretty much. Yeah. I mean, like I said,
I always wanted to be a gangster, so the
drug dealing was always appealing to me.
And you know, you feel like
>> when you're in high school and you got a
couple ounces of and a digi scale and
people are crowded around you, you feel
like you're the man, right?
>> So, that that was a big draw as well is
just kind of being the center stage and
>> really, like I said, filling that hole.
that uncomfortableness I felt in my own
skin was a constant battle for me. I
think even now I still deal with that to
some degree like this isn't easy for me
to do, you know. Um that's why I write
[laughter] that's why I write all my
stories out prior to
um so yeah, I set up my little
operation. Um I'm working a little job
at this time. So, I got some money and I
I pick up my first ounce of from my
buddy's brother
>> and uh take it back to Ellensburg and
I'm literally passing out lines on the
desk at in yearbook class to get, you
know, I'm getting kids hooked left and
right and
drugs are going to sell well there. I'm
selling to the high school kids. I'm
selling to the college kids and it's
it's running full steam. Well,
like everything eventually you're going
to hit a roadblock or [laughter] hit the
wall dead on is um one night I go to
pick up from my buddy. He meet he
actually drives out from Maple Valley
over to Ellensburg and I pick up like
two two and a half ounces of
um I go back to my buddy's house to cut
it and he's like, "Hey, you want to come
in for a little bit and cook it?" Yeah.
It's late. It's probably like at
night. So, I go in there and we're
having a few drinks, sniffing a few
lines and stuff and naturally I it's a
good time to drive home, right?
[laughter] It snows on the ground
outside. It's, you know, dead winter.
Um, so I hop in my truck, my parents'
truck, brand new Suburban they got maybe
6 months earlier, and I start barreling
down a country back road.
I don't know what happens or how it
happens, but I start fishtailing going
50, 60 miles an hour and before I know
it, I'm barreling, flipping down the
road
>> and probably four times and wake up in
the ditch. And uh
>> I come to and no scratch on me. I have
no idea, you know, I guess being drunk
that they say that helps, but yeah, not
a scratch on me. And I just wake up,
come to unbuckle myself cuz I'm upside
down, fall to the ceiling, and water's
rushing in. I just take off. I get out
and I just take off running. I don't
know where I'm running to, you know? I
think I was just in shock. But
I get a little bit down the road and I'm
like, where? I can't go anywhere.
There's nowhere I can go, you know? It's
I got to
>> I'm in the middle of nowhere, right?
>> Yeah. I'm middle of nowhere. Like I
can't call the police because of my
situation. So, my next best thought is
call my dad. You know, maybe he'll take
away all my bad decisions. You know what
I mean? Like,
>> I don't know what I'm thinking, but um
he shows up down there and
>> he wanted to take it away, you know, he
wanted to, like I said, he's a cop, you
know, so I could only imagine the
conundrum inside of him. But
yeah, is like do I say that I was
driving and and you know so we can get
the insurance or or what? And he just he
saw me and was like no like
you you're going to have to ride on this
one.
>> So that was kind of the first time that
my parents were putting that that firm
line [clears throat] in the sand of like
we're not
>> we're not fixing all your [ __ ]
decision all your bad decisions.
>> Yep. And that's one thing like I really
have to hand to my parents is they never
enabled me.
>> Yeah, that's a smart move. Which problem
is it's not the move that you want to do
or you or make as a you know as a
parent, but that the moment you start
coming to to your kids' rescues every
[ __ ] time, you're just prolonging the
inevitable and making things worse and
worse,
>> right?
>> Yeah. It's almost like when cities will
like decriminalize drugs or something.
It's like or drug deal. Like, what do
you think's going to happen? People are
just going to flock there and
>> we're going to help these people. No,
no. You're about to triple your [ __ ]
drug the drug addicts. You're going to
have so many [ __ ] junkies. And then
guess what else is going to start
happening? They're going to start
breaking into houses, breaking into
Yeah. You've just really really done a
job on your on the decent citizens that
are paying taxes.
>> You didn't help them out at all.
>> That's the worst part is those people
aren't even listened to. I mean, I come
from Seattle, which is like they it's
just lost its way big time. But yeah,
it's that was kind of it is they
they were police officers, but they
still didn't understand addiction. This
is still early. This is before the
opiate epidemic. This is still when um
Purdue Pharma is making all their money
hand over fist.
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>> This is, you know, in those days when
it's not in your face of everyone
overdosing and dying from from
painkillers, you know. Um, so
>> they call the cops.
>> They call the cops. Yep. He called the
cops. They come and arrest me and I get
a DUI.
>> Okay.
>> Um [snorts] I didn't go to jail.
>> How old are you?
>> I just turned 16. I maybe had my license
6 months maybe.
>> Oh man, that's
>> Y.
>> But you don't have a car. Your own car?
>> No.
>> You're driving their vehicles. Okay. Go
ahead.
>> Yep. So I just totaled their brand new
brand new Suburban. Um
>> which that did wonders for their
insurance polic.
>> Oh my gosh. Yeah, that was a that was a
nightmare after that. But um again,
didn't deter me one bit. I was still
hellbent on this course of just
destroying my life for whatever reason.
And it it's not like I didn't know that
doing drugs or, you know, being a
criminal was they always tell you it's
going to end one of two ways. It's like
I knew all these things. I was raised in
the church. I was raised in, you know, a
good home. Knowing right from wrong, cop
parents, like I know what I'm supposed
to be doing. and I know what I'm doing
is wrong. I just don't care for whatever
reason. Um, so they they let me ride on
that, but now my license is gone. So
they they nail me down for a little bit.
You know, they're you you can't go to
Maple Valley. You can't go do this and
that. But that only lasts so long. You
know, I'm already trying to oh, can I
just go back? You know, just I'll just
for the weekend, I won't do this. I'll
check in. you know, just still trying to
bargain with them and push them to get
get me to let me go back there. I
finally break them down enough to let me
go back. Well, I'm not done selling
drugs and now I have to have a way to
get my drugs back to Ellensburg. So, I
start hiding my bag and tra having my
dad unknowingly traffic co.
>> Oh, no. If it was your dad, as soon as
you got in the car, I'd already know
what was up. Like the moment you I'd
already be like when you came to get in
the car be like, "All right, here. Turn
around. I'm gonna [ __ ] search your
bag." No, you can't [ __ ] it. I'll slap
the piss out of you. Assuming your dad's
bigger than you. He's a cop. Like he's
going to
>> kick my ass.
>> He's going to you yank that bag, found
[snorts] it right away, and be like,
"Oh, guess who's never going back
there."
>> Yep. But at that time, I had never still
never been caught for drugs. Like even
in my DUI that there was no drugs. I had
dropped all my stuff off at my house.
>> But you were on drugs. Like it's a DUI.
They know you were under the influence
>> of al He saw alcohol. They didn't know I
was on.
>> Oh,
>> yeah. I was drunk. Yeah. Okay.
>> Yeah. So, I was drunk and doing so they
just went with, you know, alcohol.
>> I don't really know how DUI works, I'll
be honest with you. [snorts]
>> Well, it was probably I have to do a
>> I thought it I thought I thought they
could find like any drugs or something
like they can, you know.
>> No, through blood. Yeah, because I well
I see them, you know, I'll see them do
the sobriety test and they're like they
do the sobriety test sometimes and
they're like and they then the person
will blow and they'll be like, "Nah, I'm
going to bring you downtown anyway."
Like something's wrong, like something's
wrong with you. And then they go
downtown, they like order blood or
something. Yeah. Or do a test or piss
test or something.
>> Yeah. They'll either breathalyze you or
if they're if they think you're on
drugs, they'll usually just take your
blood,
>> right?
>> Um
>> but yeah, I hadn't I still hadn't been
caught for any of that. So he's not
that's not in his mind. you know, I'm a
troublemaker, sure, but like trafficking
of pain or something like that, he
that's not not in his brain.
>> And I couldn't sell or anything cuz I
can't sneak. It's going to wreak in my
bag. So, naturally, I'm already leaning
towards the harder stuff. Um, so yeah,
I'm now I'm sneaking in my bag
[laughter]
over the mountain pass each weekend and
my operation is still running. You know,
I'm still serving, you know, everyone,
but um
eventually that comes to a head too, you
know, like like anything, it all it all
comes to an end eventually. Um,
[clears throat] but the police also in
the area
are starting to know what I'm up to
because one of the person I had sold to
got in trouble with their parents and
they told them where he got it.
>> They didn't have any proof that it came
from me. But now the cops are on to me.
>> Yeah. You're in a system somewhere.
You're [clears throat] on a list.
>> Yep. Yep. And now I'm being followed and
watched because they know my car. So,
you know, my parents, you know, after I
get in my wreck, my parents have their
other car that I was driving, too. So,
now they're starting to get pulled over
and harassed cuz the cops think that
it's me driving, right?
>> You know, so they're having to deal with
this stuff. So, they slowly start to see
what I'm up to because of that. And um
like I said, eventually everything come
every good thing I say good it comes to
an end is um eventually that progresses
to one night I have a group of friends
over at my house and my my nice big old
house on the hill. Like I said, my
parents did really well. Like I am I did
not come from a life of poverty or
struggle or anything like that.
>> Yeah, this is solid middle class. like
two cops are making a solid middle class
easy or
>> you know probably with the exception of
the kids but these kids some of these
kids are already gone so
>> especially in Seattle they I mean they
they paid pretty well
>> kids will cut into your your uh income
pretty pretty quick but [laughter]
>> especially if they're wrecking your your
new
SUVs taking on an SUV every once a year.
[laughter]
>> [snorts]
>> But yeah, so one night I'm, you know,
have a bunch of people over at my house
and uh
we're all hanging out, a bunch of
teenagers, like I said, 16, 17 years
old. We're all sniffing lines of Pure
and we're all smoking blunts and
drinking and um night goes on and I uh I
get it in my head that I want to carry
their gun around cuz I think I'm some
badass. I think I'm some gangster and
I'm [clears throat] top dog. So, I sneak
into their or I go into their room when
they're gone and I track down their safe
or the key to the safe. I pull out their
pistol and I'm wearing that around the
party because I think I like I think I'm
some tough guy and yeah, just living a
complete facade.
>> This is a [clears throat] series of
really bad decisions.
>> Oh my gosh, it just gets worse.
[laughter]
So,
um, we had a few girls there that night
and they're, uh, like, "Okay, I think we
want to go home. Can you guys take us?"
And we're like, "No, we're like, "We
want to go home. Can you guys take us um
down to the bottom of the hill? We have
a ride that's going to come pick us up."
And we're like, "Oh, sure." And uh, one
of my buddies hears who's coming to pick
them up. And he's immediately I rate.
He's like, "What the f you talking
about? that person's coming here. Like
he apparently has beef with this person
going back a long ways. And um so he's
immediately, let's go down there. Let's
go down there. And the girls are like,
"No, no, please don't." Um so we go down
there anyways. And uh I'm sitting in the
truck and I'm watching him yell back and
forth to this guy. He's like, "Get out
of the car. Get out of the car." And the
kid's not getting out.
So me thinking I'm some badass again. I
hop out of the truck, rack a round in. I
walk up to the window and put the gun up
to him and I'm like, "Get out of the
car." And immediately he just slams on
the gas and takes off. So I'm like, "Oh,
okay. Well, I guess that's done, you
know. No, wrong." He went straight home,
told his parents, and I had a sheriff on
my [snorts] front doorstep the next day.
>> Right.
>> Yep. with your parents there.
>> Mhm.
>> Oh [ __ ]
>> Yep. So we concocted this whole lie.
>> Who's we?
>> Me and my buddy. So the guy that was
yelling back and forth.
>> Was this prior to them showing up or are
you?
>> After?
>> After. So now I'm like damage control.
Like I'm trying to come up with some
story of what happened so I can, you
know, have my alibi. So, I don't know if
you remember those old Nokia phones,
just the big black brick or whatever.
>> Yeah.
>> So, I come up with this lie of like,
"No, it wasn't a gun. I was holding a
phone like this and I was I was just
trying to intimidate him. It wasn't a
gun." You know, stupid lie. Ridiculous.
But I think this should this should
hold. Um, so I tell my my buddy and
like, "Hey, go along with this. This is
this is our plan. you know, this is what
I'm going to say. Well, he gets in front
of my lawyer to be questioned about it.
Like, okay. So,
>> were you arrested?
>> I was not arrested. Um, they were just
going to be charging me. They were going
to be charging me with um a few things.
One of them was a felony.
>> Mhm.
>> Um it I ended up getting it talked down,
but so I go in there and I I'm like,
"This is this is the lie that we're
going to tell." Yeah.
>> And he gets in front of my lawyer and is
immediately just folds. He's like, "No,
he had a gun." Yeah. Yeah, he had a gun
and I I didn't want him to do that. I
had nothing to do with it. So, just
immediately [laughter]
tosses me under the bus. So, we're like,
Luckily, I had a good lawyer and he was
able to talk it down, you know, whatever
privilege that is, but they were able to
talk it down and I got unlawful display
of a firearm in the second degree or
something like that. So bypassed a
felony,
>> right?
>> Barely. Um but yeah, so my and at this
time I'm 17 now. I'm starting to reach
um graduation and moving out and things
like that. So I'm on a bad path. I have
no plans for the future. And um I didn't
mention it before, but when I was 15 uh
skateboarding, I actually injured my
back. So that that's kind of where um my
addiction started with opiates is I went
in for my first back surgery at 15. Um
there wasn't a specific incident that
they thought that caused it. It was just
time of jackass jumping downstairs and
you know just repetitive trauma on my
back. There's like yeah you got
degenerative disc disease like you're
going to need to get surgery. So at 15,
I go in and I get my first surgery and I
walk out with a giant bottle of pills.
And
>> are these oxies or
>> oxy? Yeah, perk sets.
>> Okay. Perks. Okay.
>> Yeah, just little perk fives. But even
then, I still didn't realize what I had.
You know, I wasn't really getting high
off of them. It it was from the time
when we trusted our doctors. My parents
were just giving me my script and I'm
taking them
>> as prescribed.
>> As prescribed because Yeah.
>> Take them as prescribed is not that bad,
>> right? Yeah. Yeah, I mean it's a
medicine for a reason. Um, but yeah,
that so that was kind of the start of my
addiction and at
17 or 18 is when I got my second back
surgery. So, I kind of always had it in
my mind of like, I'm never going to do
[ __ ] with my life anyways. Like, I can't
stand on my feet all day and work a job.
Like, what am I going to do with myself?
So, I was almost like
self-sabotaging myself in a sense.
>> And I like to say it's like a slow side
of of some sort is because I cared so
little about myself at that point that
I'm just a human receptacle. I'm putting
whatever drugs in my system to make me
not feel that feeling, you know?
Um
>> the slow makes me think of the guys that
are doing um what they call life on the
installment plan. Four years here, eight
years here, two like they you're getting
out for six months, going back for
seven, right?
>> Seven years, you get out for a year and
a half, you go back for four years, you
get out for
>> six more months, you're back for seven
years. It's like, bro, this the little
chunks that you're on the outside mean
nothing. Like you might as well just get
just go ahead and say give me life you
just stay in there.
>> It's just a pain in the ass to
[laughter] get out for 6 months to be
honest with you.
>> Yep.
>> Yeah. Um but that's just kind of the way
I felt with my life and I just didn't I
had no goals. I wanted to be a
professional drug dealer. So
>> because that always works out so well,
>> right? Yeah. I if I could go back and
[ __ ] slap my old me, I would. It's It's
funny that at at 18 or 19, if you have
like you have like four grand and a
decent vehicle
>> and you're selling and people are
texting you or calling you and what a
[ __ ] how amazing you feel.
>> Oh yeah. It's almost godlike. I say it's
like when you're you come in and you're
controlling the party. I I remember days
of selling E and like you come into a
party, you give one person an E pill,
everyone's going to want it. So you
literally have a a single file line in
front of you. [laughter]
>> You're the coolest thing. Yeah. Out
there. And yeah, it's it's so funny cuz
now that same person, you know, if you
met that same person, you'd be like,
you've got $4,000 to your name,
>> deadbeat. You're driving a a a a
15-year-old,
you know, Honda Accord.
>> Yep.
>> You know, with with uh you know, with
neon with shitty neon underneath it and
and it smells good when you get inside.
Like what? You don't have anything under
control. Like you're living a horribly
pathetic life right now. You have no
job, [laughter]
>> you know? And guys call you and ask you
for drugs. Like when you're 19, that
that's cool. Somebody's called me and
said, "Yo, bro, can you bring me some
money?" The [ __ ] are you talking about?
Hang on the phone.
>> Yeah. What?
>> Yeah.
>> Yep.
>> My thought is you. So, you think I'm the
kind of loser that has drugs on him
>> as opposed to 19? You're like, "This guy
thinks I
>> Oh, yeah.
>> I'm the coolest."
>> Yeah. I say now like being a having a
wife of 13 years, having two kids, being
a good father, a hard worker, that's
much more gangster than anything I was
doing back then. And much harder, too.
You know, it's not easy doing those
things.
>> That's tough. Yeah. Getting up every day
in in the morning, go to work and
working 8 hours and driving back. Like,
[ __ ]
>> Yeah.
>> You know, that's, you know what I'm
saying? That's like, oh, that's that's
tough. That's a tough life.
>> You know, but those are also the guys
that are making the entire country run.
>> That's the big picture is that this is a
guy that is the reason that you have a
road to drive to the airport and get on
a plane. Like, he's the one who's making
that happen,
>> right? as opposed to the drug dealer.
>> Yeah. And my dad raised me to be a hard
worker. So once I did get into the work
field, like I was off and running, but
>> Yeah. But it's getting there.
>> But it's getting there. And in getting
over my back problem, which I was
eventually my parents, you know, I'll go
into that too, but they they really
saved my life in that sense of giving me
my life back because that was going to
be a giant hurdle if I couldn't get past
that and I couldn't get my back better.
The worst thing about having a back
problem is that in the end, you can do
the exercise, you can do all of these
things, but in the end, it's like nobody
wants to hear that you're going to have
to live with some pain. Nobody wants
>> I don't want to hear that. Like, no, no,
no, no,
>> no. There's got to be a pill that No,
no. You could take a little bit. You can
never go higher than this.
>> And you're just going to have to
understand you're going to have to live
with some pain. Yep.
>> [ __ ] That sucks. That's a horrible
[ __ ] realization. Like, I'm gonna be
feeling like this all the Every once in
a while I'm gonna bend over to to to tie
my shoes and my back's gonna go out.
>> Yeah. Your breath will get taken away.
>> Yep.
>> Yeah. And I think that that was lost
during the Oxy the Oxy era when
Oxycontton specifically came onto the
market because that was when they had
the pain scale of like, how are you
feeling today with all of those little
faces? Because they wanted to have
people to have no pain. Yeah,
>> that that was their goal is for people
to be painfree, which is not possible.
>> Possible. You have a back problem,
>> right? And if you give people high
amounts of opiates of even low amounts
eventually, if you're taking them
regularly,
>> they get used to them go up and up and
up and up. And what do you expect? How
do you expect that to end? You know what
I mean? Like so that's I I get I get
upset sometimes when it's when I talk
about the Oxycontton epidemic in that
time because yes, everyone makes their
own decisions. Everyone um you know take
responsibility for what you do. Okay.
But when you have doctors that are
knowingly prescribing insane amounts of
pills, insane milligrams, and they're
trained to know um the potency of
things, and to think there's some new
drug that where they the wording was
less addictive or something like that
along those [clears throat] lines, it's
like
>> really.
So yeah, that that kind of irritates me
to some extent. makes me think of a Did
you ever read a Brave New World by uh
Alex uh Huxley?
>> Anyway, it like the entire society is
is they basically they're just they're
all drug addicts,
>> you know. Oh, you're feeling sad? Take a
blue.
>> Yeah.
>> You know, and they're like, "Oh, you're
feeling this way? Take a red."
>> You know, oh, and they just it's the
everything is is like that. It's kind of
like you can have sex with whoever you
want and everybody's they're on pills
and you just take a pill to get rid of
the
you know this that your birth or your
pregnancy. You could do this you could
do everybody's on pills all the time.
It's all
>> uh it's really kind of it's it's super
interesting. It's like reading 1984. You
know, you read it now and you're like,
>> "This is world."
>> You're like, "Wow, that's pretty that's
pretty uh um telling that this guy that
uh
>> um George Orwell had these, you know,
knew what was coming."
>> Sure. Yeah. That's why you see like the
movie I don't if you've ever seen
Wall-E, [laughter]
>> the robot movie where it it flashes to
the future and Earth is just a basically
a dumpster.
>> And they're all living on spaceships and
they cruise around.
Yeah. Their bones. Yeah. [laughter]
>> Yeah. Everything is a Yeah. Cool.
>> That's just like that's where that's
where society is going. Just like people
scroll scroll.
>> Absolutely.
>> So,
>> but yeah, that's
>> So, you're 19.
>> Yep. So, um actually before I even
graduated, I end up getting arrested
again. I get an MIP. Me and my buddy are
driving. He swerves off the road and I
get an MIP. So, my my poor parents are
just dealing
>> What's an MIP? I don't know what that
>> minor in possession.
>> Oh, okay.
>> Yeah. So, I'm just drinking underage.
just another minor charge, but that was
my second probation violation um from my
DUI. I got the gun charge and then an
MIP. So,
my parents are none too pleased with me
um to save.
>> Did you get arrested? Do you have to do
some time in jail?
>> I did. I had to do two days in jail. Um
but I was on probation for years. I
think I was on probation for like five
years. I got my license taken away for a
year. Um, I did community service,
fines, drug classes, all that stuff. Um,
but again, nothing enough to make me
want to stop what I was doing, you know.
>> Um,
but yeah, now I'm coming up on
graduation. So, you know, I'm turning 18
and I'm going to be moving out. And
that's what I do. The day I turn 18, I
move out. Actually, no. The day I the
day after I turned 18 for my sentencing,
the judge goes, "When do you turn 18?"
Oh, you know this date. And he's like,
"Okay, well, August 19th. Report to
[laughter] the county jail to turn
yourself in." Um, so but as soon as I
got out, the couple days I did and I
moved straight back to me. I moved
straight to Maple Valley and just
started my life and crime there.
Did your at this point has your dad um
or your mom like had a sit down meeting
like hey like you gota
>> oh my gosh every week
>> there's been many I'm assuming there
have been many of those right like had
to be
>> yeah there's so many offshoot stories of
like different times that I got caught
like one time I was chatting with a girl
on AOL and her parents were monitoring
it and I'm talking like man it's really
nice to hang out with someone who just
doesn't want you for drugs hugs and blah
blah blah blah blah and that they sent
all that stuff to my parents. So, it's
just constant, you know, just dealing
with my BS. So, yeah, I'm
every week it's another sitdown
conversation in the living room of you
got to get your [ __ ] together,
>> right? So, you move out, you move to uh
>> Maple Valley.
>> Maple Valley. I almost said Pleasant
Valley. U Maple Valley. What do you move
in with a buddy or you get an apartment?
You get like a
>> Yeah. I So I move in with my first I
move in with my uh buddy and his parents
and just sleeping on the couch. But um
I'm still
there's always a fight inside me this
whole time, right? Is I'm I was still
raised right. I was still raised with
morals and still raised to do the right
thing. So when I first moved out, I was
I wanted to try to get a job. I applied
to jobs. I worked a couple pitily ones,
but um
I'm still using. So, one day I go to buy
an Oxy from my buddy um who's a major
pill dealer in the area. He's there's
maybe he's one of maybe three big Oxy
dealers in the area slinging hundreds,
thousands of pills, you know, every week
or so.
>> And uh I go to buy a pill from him one
day and I just never leave. I end up
staying on his couch and I go to work
for him. um just running and you know
just going to meet the connect picking
up whatever just just his little
henchmen. And during this time we're
also doing burglaries and robberies. Um
a huge thing where I come from is you'd
get these kids who are like like popular
in high school a jock or something and
then they start selling pills and they
do they take off and do really well cuz
you know people like them but they're
not like us. I I wouldn't say I was hard
or anything like that. I was just around
a bunch of people who were, but it's
like, "Oh, they're soft." So, we would
just go rob them like that. It would be
robbing drug dealers. You It just became
like a sport. So, I'm slowly getting
deeper and deeper in into that life. And
>> can you uh can you tell us a story about
a like what are you doing? Are you going
knocking on the door or are you waiting?
Hey, I know this guy's going to work.
I'm just going to break into his house
while he's gone.
>> So, all across the board. So, we started
with um here, give me your money and
I'll go pick you up hills and we just
keep the money. Yeah.
>> Until you burn all those bridges and
then you're we're also we would uh call
up a connect and just rob them. Rob them
at gunpoint. Have two guys get in the
car and like oh yeah, you know, you're
here to buy some pills and you just pull
it on them and give it up. So, it was
always
different. Sometimes it's burglaries or
something. you you hear someone slanging
and they're gone and you know when they
leave and you just kick their door in.
And I remember one time um a couple of
my buddies knew a guy was slanging out
of apartment complex and he had this
giant like treasure chest just filled
with mushrooms and money and stuff and
we just sat and watched until he took
off and just kicked in the door. Just
grab everything and take off. So it was
really just kind of a case byase. Do any
of those ever go wrong? Like at this
time?
>> I was going to say, do those guys know
because it's not that hard
>> to real to kind of backtrack and figure
out this only this had to be so and so.
And then before you know it, you're
>> they're at your door.
>> Well, or and other buddies are calling
up saying, "Yeah, I'm friends with so
and so who's friend with so- and so who
said that he and Jimmy rob is the one
that robbed your house
>> all the time." Yep. I remember one time
I had kind of I had been I eventually
was like I'm not even going to sell
drugs anymore. I'm just going to rob
drug dealers and rob people because it's
quicker. It's more lucrative, but that
quickly didn't work out because everyone
in the valley like just kind of joined
together. And I had like 30 people on my
doorstep with guns. One day I I pull out
of my driveway,
go up to the the front part of the road,
and there's like 10 cars of people, and
they're all getting out, grabbing guns
just as I'm pulling out. I'm like, and I
just take off past them. They chased me
all over the valley. Eventually, they
caught up to me, and I luckily they
didn't tune my ass up, but I gave all
the money back. [laughter]
But, yep, lots of situations like those.
Um, I'll tell you another one in a
minute, but yeah, [snorts] so I'm I'm
living with him and this is just a trap
house. This is I lived the majority of
the time I was out um selling drugs and
doing drugs. This is where I lived is at
his house. It was just like a drug
dealing academy almost, just a bunch of
criminals who'd wake up in the morning
and like, "All right, what are we
getting into today?" You know, you could
pretty much come to that house and get
anything,
>> right? Um, but
like anything, uh, hustle long enough,
cops are going to find out. And so they
start watching the house and they bust
someone leaving our house one day. Um, I
think they picked up, you know, a bunch
of bunch of 80s or something, oxy. And,
uh, they get him to turn on my buddy.
Uh, so they set up this grand
sting down at the mall where um they
give the informant about 15,000 in cash
and they're, you know, he's going to
pick up 80s through my buddy. Well, he
goes down there and um immediately he
starts getting a bad feeling. This guy
is just acting weird. He's talking like
it's stereotypical like a movie. Like
he's talking like he has a wire, trying
to ask very directed, specific
questions. So my buddy's immediately
like something's going something's
weird. But he's kind of caught, you
know. He's like, he's in the middle of
this. I guess maybe you could just walk
away, but you know, he just decides to
All right. Well, I'm going to go through
with it and um we'll just see what
happens. So he goes and meets his
connect. He gets all the pills. And on
his way back, he kind of just throws a
Hail Mary and decides to
stash all the pills in a bush. He's
like, "I know. I'm probably being
watched. They probably are going to see
this. I'm I'm done." Anyways,
tosses him in there, goes gets back in
the car. Well, the guy is immediately
like, "You got the [ __ ] You got the
shit?" Soon as he says, "Yeah, man.
Yeah, I got it."
Doors fly open, vans come out of
nowhere, block him in, rifles in his
face, and um yeah, he's he's cooked.
Well, they look through all of the
security footage, all of the people
watching every They don't find those
pills,
>> right? [laughter]
But what do they have him on? Nothing,
right? Robbery or is he just I just
>> Nothing. His connect got arrested.
>> Um because they had already had stuff on
her as well. I think they had been
watching her for quite a quite a while.
So, I don't know if she had faced any
charges for that, but she's we can't get
pills from her anymore. She's she's
cooked. Um but yeah, he he doesn't get
charged. He gets let out later that
night. We go back, we grab all those
pills, and we have ourselves a good
night,
>> right?
>> But um with that, our connect is busted,
like I said, and we can still get pills
from other places, but not in that
amount and not for that price. So, it's,
you know, got a lot of fiends starting
to pile up and people are getting antsy.
Um, so you have, you know, we had a
giant hole to fill in the street and
this is around the time that we decided
we're going to plan a pharmacy robbery.
>> Okay? [clears throat]
>> Because like I said, you got fiends
wanting it. We want it ourselves. We're
all fiends. And it's like, okay, well,
we don't have a connect. We don't This
is like our next best option. So,
we start planning this pharmacy robbery
and we pick this small town in the
middle of Washington called Levvenworth,
Washington. It's like this little ger
cute little German town in the middle of
the mountains, very unsuspecting, away
from everything. And uh
I'm supposed to be the getaway driver,
and it was me, my buddy, and and one
other guy. And I'm supposed to be the
getaway driver. And I wake up in the
morning, and they're gone. They left
without me. I think they they thought
two two guys is better than three. We
can just keep everything for ourselves.
Um, but yeah, I wake up and they're gone
and I'm like, "What the fuck?" So, I'm
pissed, you know? I I'm trying to get
mine and get well, get some money in my
pocket, but
I don't hear anything. Nothing
happening. Nothing happening. And then
two days later, I get a call and it just
says inmate.
>> I'm like, "Oh, no."
[snorts] get on the phone with him and
apparently
they get there and uh one of my buddies
goes up into the pharmacy, puts the gun
in the pharmacist's face, give me all
the oxy and and all the money, you know,
and uh he gets it. He goes outside.
Well, my buddy's the getaway driver. And
like a bad movie, the [clears throat]
car didn't start.
>> It's not starting. [laughter]
So, they just take off on foot. you
know, they're kind of [ __ ] out of luck
and
they track him down instantly. Yep.
>> So, they both get rolled and
and during this time like everyone's
addiction is progressing. You know,
needles start to enter the picture and
I'm still not doing that. You know, I'm
just sniffing my pills or smoking them
and stuff. I'm I'm still
have my morals. You know, I have this
line that I'm never gonna cross.
[laughter]
But I'm shooting them up, you know. Um,
so things are getting bad pretty
quickly. And after they got arrested,
man, um, I had to do a little bit of
a little bit of reflecting. So I
actually moved up to the mountain pass
and I lived there for a little time.
>> Yep. They got time. They both got about
three years.
>> Okay.
>> Yeah. So
yeah, my buddy man, he's in prison right
now. that that same guy. He tell you
about him in a little bit, but he he was
a wild wild dude. Just just snap at the
snap at an instant. He's in he's in
prison right now for shooting at some
driving and shooting at someone for
owing him $600 worth of
broad daylight shooting at someone out
his window.
>> $600. Um, but yeah, these these people,
it's it's really drugs are what kind of
skew your mind into going into these
dark places and doing all these these
[snorts] dark things. But yeah, so I go
up and I I'm live at the past for a
little bit. And really that I still look
back at that time as like some of the
best times of my life is like I really I
separated myself for that season. I'm
just a ski tech, you know, cranking
skis. I'm living up there with my buddy.
But
season ends eventually. So what do I do?
I just go right back to Maple Valley. Um
[snorts] so once I get back to Maple
Valley, uh I move into an apartment
complex with my buddy and that's when I
meet my first like real good connect and
um I get put on. He starts fronting me
pounds and
things are going good. We start take we
take over that apartment complex and you
know surrounding area pretty quick. you
know, we're making good money. Um, but
there's also heroin addicts in the
apartment complex and being an opiate
addict surrounded by pills and doing
pills, having a still having a script of
myself for myself. Um,
I start to make those exceptions, not
that much at first. And I started off
sniffing it. So what you do with black
tar is you just take a little piece, put
it in like an afrin bottle or something,
put some water in there, just mix it and
just [snorts] spritz it throughout the
day. Um, so I start with that and
quickly it goes from once a week to
every other day to every day I'm doing
it and then I'm getting strung out
really quick. But um,
so is everyone else. It's like this was
the moment that heroin really started to
take the front seat and oxy's and
percoetses and all those things started
to to fade out. Um because it's just
when you're talking about spending $80
for one oxy 80
>> like that's that's a lot of money to
have to try to come up with every day
cuz people's habits are going to just go
up and up and up. But with heroin, you
know, you're able to buy a gram for 40
bucks for something and then that's
going to last you two, three times as
long as it did. So
immediately and just takes over in our
town and that [clears throat] that
becomes the predominant force. But um
during this time I'm living in the
apartments, I'm still dabbling in pills
and I get my first really good um perk
30 connect of I don't know if you've
ever seen like the blues they call them
now. It's like that's a a recreation of
the percoet 30. Okay.
>> So that's what we were selling the real
ones, the perk 30s back then.
>> Um but I had just got my connect for a
good perk 30. So I I go and I pick up a
couple grand worth of pills and you know
like you said you got a few thousand
dollar and you're living on your own,
you're young. You think you're balling
out of control. Um
but
one night again everything reaches ahead
is um I'm I'm out just meeting my
people. I got about a half pound in the
trunk and back in the days we had these
little containers that we would keep on
our keys that were little pill
containers so when we're out making
drops we can just have them close by
>> right
>> whatnot. But
>> so I got about I don't know 50 60 pills
on there. I don't remember how much
exactly. a few grand worth and I got a
half pound in the trunk. And um one
night we go to meet this guy who I was
just selling like a little dub sack to
or something. And um I run in and my
buddies are just waiting in the car. I
run in. I I serve them. I come out.
Well, when I come out, we get a little
bit down the road. We're smoke we're
smoking a blunt and I look up in the
rearview and I see those lights that you
know, you know, oh boy, it's coming. So,
you know, we finish up the blunt. I'm
like, they're gonna get us anyways. And
uh sure enough they pull us over a
little bit up the road. Well
immediately these cops are iate. They
are slam pull me out of the car
instantly are slamming me on the hood
repeatedly. Where's the meth at? Where's
the meth at? And I'm like no no no clue
what you're talking about. I'm a dealer
and I'm almost a piller. Like I don't
even even all my time I never [ __ ] with
meth. So, I have no idea literally what
he's talking about. And he's just
getting more and more crazy, like
literally slamming my head on the hood.
I'M LIKE, "AH, I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE
TALKING ABOUT." While his other cop
buddy is going through the car,
>> right?
>> Well, they end up going in cuz I kept
all my [ __ ] in the trunk, but they end
up going in through my back seat because
I didn't lock the back seat, which I
think is illegal. They pull down the
back seat, they find the half pound
instantly. Like, oh, well, well, well.
Well, who's is this? You know, um
like [ __ ] But I'm watching him the
whole time because I got those 30s on my
key ring. I'm just waiting for him to
find those cuz that's a
>> that's going to be a hefty charge,
right? If he finds those.
>> Um but
just they find the they don't find the
pills, they let us go. I'm like,
>> let you go. Let me go. They took our
>> right,
>> let us go. And I'm like,
>> what? My parents are cops, so I'm, you
know, I know some of these rules and I'm
like,
it just seems weird. This the way they
slamming me, the going in through the
trunk and so I'm like, stupid of me,
drug dealer asking. I'm like, let me get
your badge number. Let me get your badge
number. Cuz he had a jacket on over
covering his name and identification.
>> That's stupid. But um he just looks at
me and he's just like they get in their
car and they take off,
>> right? [laughter]
>> Um well later that night I get back to
my house and I'm like I want to sniff a
30 and go to bed. So I open my pill
bottle to take one out, you know, just
sniff a 30 and get right. And it's
empty. Everything's gone.
>> Oh, so they did find it. Okay. No,
>> my buddies.
>> Oh,
>> one of my buddies leaned up,
took them all when I was out and
pocketed them. And uh yeah, that was a
regular thing in Maple Valley is best
friends, people you are the closest
thing in the world to. If they see you
making money or they see an opportunity,
they're going to get you,
>> right?
>> So,
that night ends [clears throat]
with me being a dead broke. You know, I
like I said, I had the half pound. I had
all the all those pills, maybe a tiny
bit of cash in my pocket by but once
they clean me out, I'm done. So, I'm at
a really, really low point then. And
that is actually the time when I shot up
for the first time is I was just so down
on myself and so just spun out that I
was like, what does it matter? I'm
surrounded by junkies anyways, you know?
I'm in this life already like what does
it matter you know and again that
slowside type of thing is I just I
didn't care about myself at all you know
and I was
I was fully ready and willing to go down
a dark dark path and it and you know
when there's no other way it can take
you but um yeah I I don't know why I was
like that But
once I did, it was that hole that I had
been trying to fill was completely
filled up and overflowing. And it sounds
stupid, you know, you're nodding out all
the time, but it truly did. It was like
finding that missing puzzle piece of
myself. Mhm.
>> And that's what kept me stuck in that
life for so long is because it it just
meshed so well with who I was and making
me feel whole and normal that to break
out of that, it was going to take some
time,
>> right?
>> And it did end up taking a long, long
time. But um yeah, so after I shot up,
boy, I am off and running. I end up
getting real grimy real quick. We're
talking about all the burglaries and
robberies. That starts to go through the
roof because, you know, I I got to
support my habit and I'm not hustling at
this time,
>> right?
>> Um I end up getting a girlfriend and
we're just a junky couple just
anything we can do to get money, we're
doing it. But I eventually meet awin
dealer. my hand dealer um was like, "You
know a lot of people, why don't I just
put you on?" So, he starts fronting me
dope. So, I started working for him and
now I have all the dope in the world to
do. And uh that's my addiction got real
dark. That's when I started just
destroying my body. I ended up losing
all the veins in my arms and my legs and
my neck. And then I ended up going to my
femoral shooting up in my crotch area
and I'm just
starting to get abscess and
are you at any point going home to your
parents house like for Thanksgiving? Are
you coming for dinner? Hey, we're having
Christmas dinner. Are you going to be
here
>> occasionally? Yeah. And I'm
nodding out on the table. Yep. So pretty
quickly they're like, "No, you're not
welcome back here." Yeah.
>> You know,
>> um but they were always
the place that they were like, "We'll be
here waiting when you're ready to
change, right?
>> They were never going to um let me be be
a flop house and let me just come home
just willy-nilly." It's like, I have to
really be wanting to change and they'll
let me come home. And right after this
is the first time I went home because I
had I remember having a stack of cash on
the table, 4 ounces of dope on the
table, a needle filled with a gram of
and [clears throat] I'm sitting there
trying to shoot up in my neck and I just
can't get anything. I'm so sick. So dope
sick. I have the dope, but I can't even
get high. That's how far I've come, you
know? And that's I'm just on my knees
balling like a little [ __ ] And that
was the first time where I called my
parents and was just like I can't do
this anymore. You know, I was finally
like I think I'm ready to change. I
wasn't. Um but that's I ended up going
home and uh robbed my drug dealer for
all those all that dope. did it until it
was gone and then I went through the
most horrendous withdrawals
I you could even imagine for over a
month because I was withdrawing not off
just four or five grams of heroin a day.
I was also withdrawing off my methadone
prescription. So quitting cold turkey, I
was you know throwing up, [ __ ]
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You know, just horrific, horrific
things. And I go through that month and
a half. I get out. I go to my buddies in
town and dope again. immediately,
you know. Um, so there was always just
that pull to that that drug was just so
so heavy in my life. And I ended up
going to rehab and rehab was great. Went
down to a place called Calvary Ranch in
California. And it was it was a great
program, but still just [snorts] not
truly ready to change. I still had, you
know, more in me, if that makes sense.
>> How How old are you at this point?
[clears throat]
>> The about 20. Yep. So,
no longer a teenager. Still, you know,
well, old enough to know know what I'm
doing is is wrong. Um, but yeah, rehab
just doesn't work. I come back and I go
straight back to it, you know. But I'm
also still dealing with back pain at
this time as well. And uh
that's when I ended up actually
I end up um linking up with this girl in
Ellensburg um when I'm back home and she
is an ex addict and we link up together
and immediately just go off on probably
like a six-month bender. And this is
where I started getting really really um
crazy as far as testing the limits
because now I'm going to Seattle to pick
up my dope. I'm going to the downtown
streets of Seattle. And I don't know if
you know anything about that, but it is
a wild place. I would go into what's
called the jungle and that's just this
big um plot of land that's just filled
with homeless encampments and under the
bridge, but it's all an open air drug
market. So you can literally just go
under the bridge and people are weighing
out you know just H and can whatever you
want is right there. So I end up finding
a connect down there and uh
he ends up work he ends up serving me in
the exact place that my dad patrols.
>> So I'm literally picking up heroin right
where my dad's patrolling. You know get
[snorts] caught at any time. That's
where I just my addiction had pushed me
so far to that point where I just I
could care less. I just think about if I
was actually busted.
My goodness, the son of a police officer
busted for buying in his exact zone. And
I really put them at a lot of risk with
that. But yep. Um so eventually we uh
we break up. you know, I I
start to wanting to to get on the right
path again.
>> You and the chick selling ice or
>> she was on ice before. So, she was just
an ex addict. She had never done before.
So, I introduced it to her and then I
just sent her off and run in. So, I
basically just used her up and spit her
out and she ended up struggling for a
long time after me, which I, you know,
feel terrible terrible about to this
day. We all make our choices, like I
said, makes her choice to do those
things. But I definitely played a part
in
>> sending people off on their addictions,
getting them started early,
>> right?
>> I end up going to rehab again. And when
I was in rehab, uh, I'm still struggling
with back pain. So, I go to a
chiropractor one day and they're going
to do a decompression therapy on me
where they wrap this thing around your
waist and they start pulling on your
back. Well, they start pulling on my
back and I just hear this loud pop
followed by the most excruciating pain
I've ever felt in my life. Like, I can't
even think. I'm just in so much pain.
Um,
they take me out and uh I go get an MRI
and they're like, "Oh yeah, you have a
ruptured disc. You're you're bone on
bone."
>> So, whatever happened, it just
completely destroyed my back. And
>> at this point, I have never felt pain
like this. I can't sleep. I can't walk.
I can't do anything. So, they have to
pull me from rehab. I went to a place
called Teen Challenge, which is it
started with teens, but they also do do
adults, but it's a year-long program to
where they own their own businesses and
they um have people go in for a full
day's work, you know, eight hours at the
business, so they can start to get back
into what normal society is,
>> kind of acclimate them back into
environment, the normal environment,
>> right? Which it's a great program. I
just wasn't able I was there maybe three
months before that happened. So now I'm
like [ __ ] because I'm in so much pain
still on painkillers and there's no real
option. So we go to the doctor and like
okay well what what can we do? And the
doctors are pretty much like
they didn't like it that they had
already done two surgeries that failed.
Um so they were not wanting to touch me
again being a juvenile or you know just
over I think it was 20 or so and um they
were worried about malpractice. So
they're pretty much like painkillers for
the rest of your life. And my parents
were just not willing to accept that.
>> Mhm.
>> So that's when my um dad just goes off
on a researching spree and finds out
that Germany was doing disc replacements
uh for quite a while before this. So
they
man they they got the money. I think it
was like 30k and we went over there to
get my back surgery. And the whole time
I'm still an addict. I'm taking my pills
that I get from Germany. I'm going to
the kitchen like, "You guys got foil
back here? Can I get [laughter]
just a complete dirt bag the whole
time?" Um, surgery was a success. Huge
success. I just didn't know it yet.
>> Right. What do they do? They They
>> So, the surgery is pretty cool. They go
in through your stomach. They separate
your spine and they put um it's like a
half sphere and a cup like that. So I
can move in all directions like
>> Yeah.
>> Um it just kind of sits like that and
they just pound it into one end of your
spine and then the other and it just
goes together like that. Very simple
design but the US had wasn't doing it.
They were only doing fusions and you
know different things at that time which
had like terrible success rates.
>> So they decide that you know it's worth
it to try try to do this. the US does it
now, but yeah. So, I go over and do
that, but I'm still so heavy on pain
medication that I don't know that it's
even worked. You know what I mean?
>> So, I get back and um I get hooked up
with this new doctor and I'm getting
like 100 milligrams of methadone a day.
I start shooting up my methadone. I
start, you know, just going right back
to all the stuff that I had been trying
forever to get away from. And uh
it kind of got to a point where my
doctor was like, you know, I really
think that you would be beneficial
switching to Suboxone. It's like, I
think you'd get a better better wrangle
on your life. It's, you know, you're
running out of your script early. You
know, you're doing you're focused so
much on your medicine. and I really
think that this would benefit you. Um I
wasn't still wasn't trying to hear it,
you know. Uh and eventually
I just had gotten to the point where I
was like, you know what, I think this is
I think this is the right move. So I end
up switching to Suboxone and boom, my
life takes off after that. Uh I'm still
not done with the game, you know what I
mean? I'm still like
fascinated by it, still in love with it,
still connected to all those people. Um,
but yeah. Um, well, I I should probably
tell you about the last time I shot dope
because that's a that's a pretty wild
story as well. Um, and this is around
that exact same time is I'm slowing down
on doing dope. I'm back from Germany.
I'm taking my pills, but
one day I decide, like I said, I'm
shooting my pills. And one day I decide,
you know, I want to buy some dope. So I
call up my buddy who I had lived with in
Maple Valley. I dated his sister for for
years and we were super close. And he's
living out in Yakama, which is pretty
close to me. So I have him come out and
I pick, you know, pick up just a little
bit of dope from him. Well, he goes back
and uh two weeks later
he's murdered. He uh gets a call from
this junkie who's just wants a few
hundred dollars worth of something.
>> He goes down to the Pizza Hut to meet
him.
>> Well, he gets in the car and the two
guys in the car immediately pull a gun
on him.
>> Like, give us all your [ __ ]
>> He's like, been around guns before. I
ain't sweating that [ __ ] Put that [ __ ]
away. You're not going to do [ __ ] with
that.
>> They're not trying to hear it. So, they
immediately shoot him in the chest and
face multiple times.
So now they're like, "Uh, what do we
do?" You know, they're riding around
broad daylight downtown with a dead body
in the back seat, and the best thing
that they can conjure up is to go back
to the killer's grandma's house and hide
the body under the porch.
>> Whoa.
>> Yep. They grab a sheet, they load him
up, and they play. This is the dead of
winter. So, they hide him under the
porch and he's there for a month before
the other the guy who was with him just
couldn't take it anymore. He was having
nightmares about what they did and ends
up turning turning themselves in. So,
they go to that guy's house and he find
my best friend under the porch, you
know,
>> over a few hundred worth nothing,
>> you know, and that was happening
regularly. Um,
even before I got into the game, like I
said, it was kind of a passing of the
torch. Is one of my close friends older
brother owed some money to some people
for meth and he ended up disappearing.
They still haven't solved his case. He
went to, you know, some school parking
lot to meet them and they found his car
there and they never found him. And then
they're they know what happened. You
know, they know he owed money and
>> um that he was into some shady stuff,
but you know, this sleepy little town
that's 90%,
you know, white, like just upcale, like
middle of nowhere, there's murders
happening. There's kidnappings
happening. My buddies, I'm hearing
stories of my buddies running up in
people's houses. is like one time um I
get, you know, I'm going to Maple Valley
for the weekend and my buddy's like,
"Oh, you don't want to hear what
happened last weekend." And I'm like,
"Oh, what?" And he's like, "Had to run
up in this so and so's house." I'm like,
"What?" He's like, "Yeah, I almost had
to kill him." I'm like, "Okay, what are
you talking about?" He's like, "Well, he
robbed me for a bunch of pills. So, me
and few other guys, we went up in his
house thinking he wasn't there, and he's
just nodded out on the couch. So, we
threw a blanket on him and started
beating him and uh they end up zip tying
him and keeping him for hours in the
house to get the pills back, but he ends
up never giving him up. They lock him up
in the room and he jumps out the second
story window.
>> We're talking 16-year-old kids doing
this.
>> Those are kidnapping charges. Yeah.
>> Yeah. Absolutely. And torture charges
because they beat
>> home invasion, everything. Boy, that's
all those are It's a lot of time. Mhm.
Yeah. And that stuff was just a regular
thing, you know, is drugs, like I said,
drugs were really skew your line and
like that was just
it became normal is like you almost
didn't even realize what you were doing
back then. You know, you're pulling guns
on people and you're robbing people and
it's like you're not fully bringing that
in of what you're actually doing. I
truly believe like when they say your
brain doesn't you know develop till
you're 25 years it's not fully developed
it's like man [laughter] I believe that
because the things I was doing in those
years are like so reckless I can't even
imagine doing them doing them now you
know what I mean
>> after he died um after my buddy died
I was done you know I was done being
around junkies I was finally
at that point where I was kind of ready
to
change my life and start to separate
myself from those those things and those
people. And um
>> how old were you?
>> Uh I believe I was about 22 at this
time.
>> Okay. Um, so
at that time also my doctor is switching
me over to Suboxone and like I said, as
soon as I did that, my life took off and
uh still not done with the game. So I'm
still still around people that are doing
those things, but now I'm starting to,
like I said, branch off and starting to
find myself. Well, one day I had one of
my old junky buddies call me and he's
like, "Hey, you trying to come up on a
lick?" I'm like, "What are we talking?"
He's like, "You don't got to do nothing,
man. All you have to be is the the
driver." I'm like,
>> "You might as well go in the [ __ ]
place [laughter] with a gun."
>> And I'm like, "Oh, okay." And all right,
let's let's go. So, I pick him up and uh
we go to his girlfriend at the house,
his girlfriend's house at that time to
rob her because he's been casing her
house out for weeks and is found where
her parents keep all their money and all
their guns and jewelry, all of that. So,
>> this is a classy guy. This is
>> scale. [laughter] He's all class.
[gasps]
>> All of them were just the peak of
humanity. Um, but yeah, I mean, man of
his word, he goes in and gets 10 grand,
gets a bunch of guns, and comes out and
gives me my half. Well, now I'm kind of
doing better. So, I start my I start a
little weed operation and just start cuz
I'm living at the college at that time.
I'm just staying on a buddy's dorm room
couch. And so, my I'm by my parents, but
I'm not living with them at this time.
Um, so I start my little operation and
it just takes off real quickly. Yeah,
I'm just doing really well. I end up
working my way up to about like 5, six
pounds. Um, I got about four workers
working for me. Uh, where I'm just
dropping off a pound to each person for
about I'm usually getting them for about
three grand. Um, and then just dropping
off for about 44,500 cuz they're all on
front. Mhm.
>> So now I'm got I got my little operation
going and it's it's seemingly going
really well. Well, that same junkie
buddy who I did the burglary with calls
me one day and he wants some too. So I'm
like, "You get money for [laughter] He's
like, "Oh, no, no, it's my buddy. He
wants some, so I'm just getting it for
him." So I'm like, "All right." So he
wants a QP or something like that. And
uh so I drive way out into the country.
>> You think he's going to rob you?
[laughter] I drive way out into the
country and uh kind of like that Sting
situation. He gets in the car and he's
acting funny. He's asking me about
things that have nothing to do with
this. And eventually I'm just like,
"Okay, okay, you got the money or what?
What's going on?"
>> And as soon as I said that, he goes grab
the off my lap and jumps out of the car
and just takes off running and jumps in
this truck. And before I can even think
about it, I'm out the door running after
him and I jump on the back of the truck.
Well, they take off and are barreling
down this gravel road going like 40 50
and it's just going faster and I'm being
drugged behind and I'm fighting a fight
to pull. I get my face up over the thing
to get in the back of the truck. I look
up and there's a 357 pointed right at my
face as soon as I pop up over there and
I just I just let go and
tumble down that road. Just just
>> Good for your back.
>> Oh my gosh. [laughter]
Legs just just scabs from like my knee
knee down to my feet on both legs. I
probably broke a rib or two. And uh so
he takes off and it's funny because the
driver of that truck was actually the
kid I pulled the gun on in high school.
>> Oh, okay.
>> So talk about karma coming full circle
all the way back to pay me a visit
[laughter] on my doorstep. Um but yeah,
I never after that I never really saw
him again and now I'm just running full
steam running my operation and uh I'm
making really good money. you know,
things are going really good. And uh
this is kind of when um I started
getting into arms dealing as well is
because I sold
>> Feel like a little bit ago you said you
were like your life was taking off.
Everything was all better.
>> But this is to me,
>> this doesn't sound all better
>> to me. I'm like I'm not dealing in
>> you know what I mean? So the logic Yeah.
The gun thing was actually um so it
started off with stolen guns obviously
and uh I can move guns no problem. So, I
end up getting into that and I actually
do it um there was a website back in the
day called Seattle Guns is almost like a
Craigslist for guns.
>> And what I would do is like what the
guys you actually know them uh War Dogs
is what they would do is they would
cruise those websites and try to find
the smaller deals that people aren't
paying attention to and then you know
make their bread and butter off of those
from what I understand. Um, so I kind of
did the same tactic is I'm just
constantly on this site looking for guns
that are people are selling an AK or
something for 150, 200 bucks because
they need it gone. You know, they're
just trying to get rid of it. And if
you're quick,
>> buy that AK and then turn around and
sell it for 7800. So I was doing that
constantly. Um, operating off a bill of
sale. So it's all 100% legal to be able
to do this. Uh, and I'm making a really
good living doing that. But I'm also
selling stolen guns as well, right?
Because I still have bunk all my junky
buddies burglarizing houses and bringing
me an AR or something like that and I'm
slinging that off. So, I'm probably
slinging like
10 15 guns a month. And then I'm, you
know, selling my at the same time, too.
>> And I'm start stacking away cash. Um, I
move back in with my parents. They see
I'm I'm doing good. [laughter]
But but they obviously still knew
something was up. They knew I wasn't on
here when I wasn't a junkie anymore, but
they knew something was up. My mom's
finding like 20 25 grand in cash buried
in her garden bed out front. And you
know, so they're starting to see h
something's up here, but he's not like
he's not selling heroin or doing that.
So let's just see what happens. And and
to be fair is like I actually was
starting to lean more into the gun
thing. I went to school and became a
gunsmith.
>> Um cuz I was like, well maybe this is my
thing. Maybe this is how I find my way
out. Maybe I used my powers, you know,
my negatives for good and this is a
career that I could have. So I went to
school, aced, you know, aced that no
problem. Um but the job market just
really wasn't there at that time. Um,
and this is actually around the time
that I was I met my wife. And um,
>> she comes from the same town. She's from
Maple Valley as well. I didn't know her
growing up. She knew me. It's funny. She
got a crush on me in middle school.
There's a little picture of me in the
yearbook and it's circle and it says
hottie. [laughter]
So, it's like she was around, but I
never really knew her.
>> Right.
>> And uh, she does not know anything of
this life.
>> Yeah. She comes from the other side of
my town where it's like that was like an
oasis. It was the dream place to grow up
is like the epitome of, you know, a cute
nice small town if you don't know what
the underbelly is doing, you know.
>> Um, so she's a really she's really the
first woman I ever dated or ever was
with. Everyone prior to that was just a
junky, degenerate piece of [ __ ] Like
that never brought any sort of benefit
to my life whatsoever. But she really
came in and challenged me and got me to
think beyond tomorrow. It's like, you're
going to be a drug dealer forever. Okay.
Do you want kids? Do you want any sort
of life beyond that? How are you going
to retire? You know,
>> cuz she knew I was selling, but she
didn't know to what extent. And you
know, she's some of our first times
hanging out together is I'm just going
to pick up envelopes for my four people.
And what are you doing? Oh, nothing. You
know, they just owed me money.
>> Swing by this guy's house real quick.
Yeah. Here, [laughter] got to go across
town, pick up swing by this guy's house.
Why are we swinging by guy's houses?
>> So, I wasn't very forthcoming with her
from the beginning. Um, but I wanted to
I wanted to um
show her through action, you know what I
mean? I didn't want to be like this is
what I want to do or this is who I am.
Like I wanted to show her this is this
is what I'm about. And uh
I'm one of probably one of the few drug
dealers that was able to dig up all that
money, maybe 25, 30 grand or so. Um you
know, sold all my sold guns off. Um and
I left all of that and moved back over
to the other side of the mountains to be
with her. Uh I got a job. You didn't
still do the guns thing?
>> Nope. I didn't do that anymore. I uh
actually tried to get a job in the
industry and that's kind of where I I
got an interview and the guy's like,
"Listen, I'll give you a job as a gun
salesman right now. No problem." But
gunsmiths,
it's a kind of a dying breed. There's
still some things you can do, but he's
like, "I think you're looking for a
little bit more of a career." Um, so,
you know, I'll just leave that with you.
And after that, it was I kind of decided
to pivot to something else. So, I'm
living on I'm living with her in our
apartment. I paid a year's rent, took
all that money a year's rent, bought
myself a car, and I got a minimum wage
job at Sports Authority,
>> right?
>> You know, just working there. And
honestly felt like that was necessary
with all the [ __ ] that I did and been
through. I was like, "No, you need to
start at the bottom. You need to work
your way up. You need to really like
become a contributing member of
society." because prior to that I was
like I hadn't had a job in years you
know um other than working at the pass
really no call me pass but [snorts]
yeah I'm doing that job but eventually
it's like I'm looking for a career I
need to do something and she's like you
shot up for years right
>> yeah and she's like so you're good with
a needle
>> what about phabbotomy right
>> exactly she's like why don't you go
become a lab tech become a phabbotoist
>> you don't have a felony Nope. No
felonies. No, I just [snorts] have my
charges from when I'm a kid, you know?
So, I I start looking into that. I'm
like, "Yeah, but still I'm
like I was on drugs for so long. I was
like, I did the wrong thing for so long.
Like, I don't even know if I can do
this. Can I even do this? Is my brain
too [ __ ] up to to even be able to like
pass any of these classes?" And I
honestly surprised myself. I got in
there and I aced it. Graduated with
honors and ended up getting a job
with the extern I did for worked there
for over a decade
>> with the who
>> with the place I did my extern with. So
I when you're in school where when
you're in school they have you go to
like a job site and work there to see
what the work is like. Um, and I ended
up getting a job with them and that's,
you know, that's what I've done as a lab
tech and I became an X-ray tech after
that for, you know, for a living. Um,
>> but you work in a hospital or you work
at like, you know, One Blood or
>> Um, so I worked at a clinic for a while,
you know, forever. Uh,
>> is a community health center. So, I was
working working with a lot of the people
that I was interacting with on the
street, you know, a lot of street
people, stuff like that. So I'm able to
pass along the message of, you know, how
I got out, how I was able to find some
sort of, you know, professionalism in
after that life. Um, but
yeah, we ended up um doing that, working
my way up. I ended up having a couple
kids and um we moved out to South
Carolina during COVID because I ended up
losing my job because of the whole COVID
nonsense. And uh we moved out to South
Carolina.
Well, we get out South Carolina and I'm
still like I still smoke like even to
this day I smoke because it it helps me
with my pain. I for me getting off drugs
was a stepping stone is like I started
on heroin then I went to methadone then
I went to Suboxone then I went toratom
then I went to just using cannabis to
help me. Um so I think that that really
needs to change in our society is now
it's kind of an all or nothing. It's a
very stringent way of kind of putting a
whole blanket on everyone of how to get
better. That's one thing I kind of want
to convey with my story is like
you can do it as a stepping stone. A lot
of those hardcore addicts, people who've
lived in the street doing horrific
things to themselves and horrific things
to other people, that's a different
breed. You know, we need some different
avenues for people to take because I
don't know about other people, but when
I was told like you can't do anything
ever again, you know, you can't smoke a
bowl with your buddies or something ever
again, that's a huge deterrent for me to
ever want to get better. It's like,
okay, so if I mess up or I do anything
like now I'm I'm some deadbeat or I'm
some degenerate. I was like, no, I have
a wife of 13 years. I have kids. I have
a career. And if it negatively affected
me or put me back to that place that I
don't want to be, then absolutely guess
what the first thing I'm going to quit
is. But
as of right now, it just helps me and
pushes me forward. Um, but we move out
to South Carolina and um there's just
no, you know, it's the deep south and
THCA is a thing. I don't know if you
know about hemp and THCA and that whole
loophole that was happening. Uh but we
me and the wifey decide um no one around
here is really doing it good. We can do
it better. So we start up that's where
if you've seen Sweet Leaf on my account
that's where that comes from is we
started as a hemp THC THCA company
selling um selling that and I transition
to this um but yeah we're it all
operates off the mail. So, we're
literally buying pounds through the
mail, having them shipped to our house,
and immediately we take off and we're
turning a profit because the hemp
business isn't like the medical or
recreational business where you have
those massive taxes.
>> Mhm.
>> Uh that you have to pay. So, you're
really able to start at the B, you know,
as a mom and pop low-level person and
work your way up, which I think is
amazing. But um there was,
you know, there's a lot of problems with
it as far as regulation, but
we're running full steam. Things are
going great. Well, raids start happening
all across the upstate on all of these
other shops that we modeled our business
after, right?
>> You know, I'm like, I have kids now.
I've made I'm year a decade separated
from this life. I can't be facing prison
again. What is going on?
So, I start looking into it and
all of the raids are citing
over the legal limit, right?
>> Because it's 0.3% is legal for the THC
amount in cannabis. THCA can be as high
as you want.
>> Um, when you burn the THCA, that's when
it converts to THC, but it's just a
technicality that's allowed them to be
able to sell it for almost a decade now.
Well, all of these places are getting
cited of being over. So, I'm like,
"Okay, well,
what if ours is over? I We can't We have
kids. I can't get raided."
>> So, I'm like, "Send them all in." So, we
sent all of our seven strains in to have
them retested by a DEA certified lab to
make sure. And during this time, I'm
also reached out to the local sheriff.
I'm like, "Hey, listen. This is what
we're doing. We're doing it by the book.
We have a hemp bank account. We have
this laying it out. I want to have a
relationship with you to where if you
have any issues with me or you have any
questions,
we can handle that and and I'll send you
all my, you know, lab results directly
to you. What whatever you feel
comfortable like having and just didn't
respond. So, we send all of our seven
strains and every single one of them
came back over the legal
>> really.
>> Every single one.
>> I'm like, "Shut it down. Shut it down.
And I think if you know anything about
cannabis and the curing and storage
process, that's going to happen
regardless. I was super good about
making sure to keep my stuff in a cold
um
you know, cold place with no light, all
of the things you're supposed to do to
keep it from doing that. And it's still
managed to go up. So it's like that is a
giant piece of the regulation I think
they're playing on of busting people is
like I think they know that now and uh
so we decide to pull it and thank God
because everyone around us immediately
after that got busted and rolled up for
the same thing and we had just signed a
lease because we were going to open a
brickandmortar shop. we were like fully
planning on leaning
>> right
>> everything into this and uh yep that all
happened. So I I told her, you know, we
got to pull the plug and that's kind of
when all of this came about of
storytelling and moving out to Oklahoma.
Um is out there we were separated from
family, so we wanted to be closer to
family, but we're like, well, maybe in
Oklahoma we can start it up again. we
can have our own, you know, cannabis
business out there because they're a
medical medical state. And uh yeah, it
just didn't work out in that sense. But
I was kind of looking at a stack of
journals that I had because throughout
all of my story, I'm writing I'm writing
poetry. I'm writing about the things I'm
going through. I have soot stains from
my spoons and dope on my pages still.
Like, so I'm in the heat of all that and
I'm writing.
>> I was just looking at him one day. I'm
like, why am I not sharing this with
anyone? Why am I not like telling the
stories about my friends who are no
longer here or, you know, some of these
crazy stories of the things, these life
lessons that I went through? And that's
when I decided, you know, let's just
pivot the company into being a
storytelling company and telling my
story, other people's stories, and um
really leaning into that aspect of it
because I know so many people from that
life that are still around, but I mean,
we lost so many. I have probably have
about 30 people I grew up with from the
classes 2004, 2005, 2006. It's about 30
to 50 people in my school alone that
have all died from overdoses, from
murders, from just we lost so many from
this tiny little town in the middle of
nowhere. And it's like, man,
this needs to be shared. People need,
you know, we need to explore this. So,
that's when I kind of got on this this
whole journey of telling my story and
telling other people's stories and I've
interviewed a couple of my buddies and
um I plan on interviewing a lot more.
But,
>> but you're interviewing them. You're
putting them on YouTube and and what
Instagram or just YouTube?
>> Yeah, I'm just putting on YouTube and
then I'll put clips on Instagram. Just
little shorts that I'm doing on there.
But we were talking about it earlier is
I I kind of want to
position my channel now to where I'm not
solely focused on one aspect of that
life to where I can kind of branch it
out and explore other different things
about that because so many of us have
gotten out of that life to do amazing
things and build businesses and or
become artists or you know tons of
different things and um I really think
it could be inspiring to people you know
really
push people to want something more for
themselves. But
>> um
I don't know. Is inspiring sell.
Colobby,
what do you think? Unless it's Andrew
Tate. This is the
>> Well, not so much inspiring, but like a
Peter Santelo. Do you know Peter Santelo
stuff?
>> Oh, you got to watch him, dude. He's um
>> he's cuz I could see you them telling
telling their story and then how it
leads into what they're doing as long as
the bulk of it is their story
>> cuz you know a lot of people are like
yeah I don't
>> want to hear how you
>> Yeah. For for example like a lot of the
stories that are told on here people say
oh that this guy is so inspiring
inspiring or whatever but we don't the
video isn't packaged inspiring story
from from ground zero to comeback. I I I
completely agree. It's getting to the
stories but ending on that note of of
hope and and what is possible of what
people can accomplish because
>> as an 80% story 10% and then
[clears throat] I started a drywall
company and hired a bunch of these guys
and these now I got 120 guys and we're
building such and such and I just bought
a helicopter.
>> So even those things I I'm like yeah I
mean it's cool to show their business
but I like I said I have a buddy who
climbs mountains. like it would be cool
to do some of those things. It doesn't
have to be a business. Doesn't have to
be a business. It could be anything. It
could be,
>> you know, it it it doesn't even it's not
like it's like it has to make money or
anything. It could just be I mean the
you know
um a comeback story or a success story
for some kid that was raised in the
projects. his mom's, you know, by his
grandmother cuz his mother's a
prostitute and his father's got a life
sentence and, you know, and then he goes
to jail and comes back. He's robbing
people. He's selling drugs. Goes back to
jail, gets out, goes back to jail, gets
out, and suddenly he's 40 years old and
he gets out of jail. And he decides he's
going to go be a, you know, a chef at
Outback Steakhouse. And now he can pay
his bills. He lives in a one-bedroom,
but he sees his son, you know, picks his
son up from school every day and gets to
teach his little league team.
>> Mhm.
>> That's a successful story. Absolutely.
>> That's massive. Yeah.
>> You know, but people think, "Oh, you
have to be a multi-million." No, no,
wait a minute. Success is, you know,
it's different for everybody. It's
different for everybody.
>> Absolutely. That's kind of the thing I
want to explore is is really
>> what like for me getting out and getting
into nature that's why I like doing mine
outside is because that is a huge part
of what keeps me on the path you know
and I think exploring those things like
I said it doesn't I think you're right
is getting the stories will be the bulk
but really ending on that note of I'm
sure you know tons of people in prison
that there's so many talented people so
many brilliant million people that is
just there's never any spotlight on it
or any, you know, nothing's ever showed
of that side. It's just this is all the
[ __ ] I did. Take what, you know, do with
it what you will. Well, and if people
are interested in you through through
your story, then they're more
they're more apt to, you know, follow
you or
um you know, or reach out and uh uh
contact you about whatever, you know,
business or whatever or buy your book or
something because they've heard the
story and they're like, "Wow, I want to
support this guy." Like, you know, like
I said, I I sell like paintings and
books like
>> Yep.
You know, I'm not I mean, I'm a decent
writer, but most people are just buying
the book because they're not like, "Oh,
you know, he's so eloquent and I wonder
I heard his writing is amazing." Like,
they're basically buying the book
because they're like, "I want to support
this guy and I looked at he's got some
books and you know what? This one sounds
interesting. I'm going to buy that
book." And luckily, they buy it and
they're like, "Oh, it was actually this
is actually a really good book." Great.
>> Mhm.
>> But let's face, you know, it's like the
paintings. Like, you're not buying it
because I'm this fantastic artist. Yeah.
>> You're buying it because it's mostly
because it's like, "Oh, yeah. It's it's
kind of a conversation starter and it's
for 300 bucks I can get this painting
that is jackass that I listen to every
twice a week, you know.
>> So, um but if it weren't for the story,
>> you know, they wouldn't they wouldn't do
that. And they probably would a lot of
them wouldn't listen to the podcast if
they hadn't heard my story.
>> Sure.
>> Just starting a podcast by yourself
without having some kind of interesting
backstory to you.
>> That's tough, man. That's tough. and you
don't have a platform. Well, I'm sorry.
You don't have the ability to go on
platforms and tell your story and get
people interested to follow you. If
you're just some guy who's like, "Oh, I
have a degree in communications and I
think it'd be great if I sat down was
able to talk to people about whatever."
It's like, [snorts]
>> bro, you better I
>> That's a grind.
>> It's going to be a long time. Like, you
were so It's going to be so hard to do,
you know?
>> You're selling yourself.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. you're selling yourself and and
like you said is when people find a
story that they can resonate with or
that they like then that's really what's
you know hitching them to to follow you
throughout your career and all the
different things that you do and that's
why I try to was also a soft white
underbelly right like every I know tons
of people my wife who uh been you know
smoking was smoking ice when she was 11
years old you know what I'm saying so
she just had a horrible background she
loves soft white on her belly
I can't get through any of his and
they're so depressing and they're so
it's horrible. It's gut-wrenching. I'm
like I can't listen to this.
>> This girl is 14 years old and her
mother's selling her as a you know as a
prostitute and she's shooting up
>> H and it's like this is the worst thing
I've ever heard. It's just I'm sick to
my stomach and yet my wife will people
will watch that, you know. So there's
there's a
there is a there are viewers for for
everything that's out there. It's just
surviving long enough to make it to
successful.
>> Find Yeah. To find your people, to find
your tribe, too.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. That's what I'm trying that's my
goal right now is just to try to find
those people that resonate with it.
That's why I've tried to have a
different approach than everyone else
like with my narrations is almost like
an audio book is I I was trying to think
of a different way um and and I probably
will shift that to because I really want
it to go out to more audiences but I'm
trying to find those creative ways to
stand out and to be different than
everyone else. Um sadly sometimes that
doesn't work out because the successful
path is successful for a reason. The
masses like it. Mhm.
>> So, yes, you will probably end up
finding your people, but if you really
want to come in and make a splash like
he kind of
>> Well, and it's like, you know, it's
Johnny Mitchell and I started a channel
called The Murderman.
And I feel like his channel blew up so
fast that to me, The Murderman is doing
great.
>> It's got over 50,000 subscribers. Like,
that's insane. Like, He acts like it's
it's barely hanging on. I'm like, it's
got 50. We're coming up on 60,000
subscribers. It's been like 7 months.
>> Yeah. Give them to me. I'll take them.
Johnny, you [laughter] know, and he acts
like, you know,
>> pass them over, bro.
>> I don't know. We're barely We're
struggling. Struggling. This is blowing.
I'm sorry. Not everybody ends up getting
half a million subscribers their first
year. The second year they get half. You
know,
>> you know, he's got like 1.4 million
subscribers. like he had this just this,
>> you know, this meteoric
>> this massive
um uh boost, you know, or or explosion
when he started his podcast. And
>> he expects everything to be like that.
It's just not.
>> No, you know, it's more like my route.
And even I'm grateful for the 200
subscribers I have. You know what I
mean? Cuz when you look at
>> like you said, you just when Johnny's
video came out
>> Yep.
>> boom. You said you got like in like a
day you got you shot up like 80. Yep.
>> You know what I'm saying? Like if even
if even if the offer continues to go and
it shoots, you know, you get 500. If you
get 500 from this channel, if you get
500 from that, it doesn't matter. Those
are all It's not just that one
subscriber. It's that one subscriber
that then one day mentions to his buddy.
Like those subscribers are getting you
other subscribers.
>> Absolutely. Yep. Yeah. So, that's just
kind of my focus right now is to
just grind away at that and do things
like this so I can get out there. So,
I'm appreciative of um [snorts] both of
you guys having me on to tell my story
because it it really that's that's how I
get out to be able to do what you guys
do and elevate myself to that level,
right?
>> And just improve improve improve. Um,
but yeah, that's my goal right now is
just to, like we were talking earlier,
what are the things I can do to make it,
you know, better for the masses to
really get my message out there by but
also not compromising who I am and the
way I want to do things and the message
that I have, you know. So, that's kind
of where I'm at right now is just trying
to navigate all of that while, you know,
working a job and stuff like that. So,
um, but yeah. Yeah, I think I think it's
good. I've gotten I've gotten great
responses from people. So, especially
after Johnny's, I gotten tons of DMs
from people and that's always
encouraging to keep pushing forward and
to keep going. So, yeah.
>> Colby, what do you think?
>> Um, I think it's I think it's good. If
you don't have anything else to touch
on, um, basically just say like all
Josh's links [snorts] will be in the
description box. Go over there, check
them out.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> Um,
>> do you have a book or anything?
>> No, I'm working on writing that right
now. And like I said, I just started. So
the fact that you guys even responded to
me to allow me to come on is like, oh,
>> well, I like the videos that you sent,
>> you know what I mean? Like it was it was
obvious that you you you were a good
writer. Well, I mean, the narration is
obviously, you know, you have a good
voice, but the narration is is based on
the the writing that you're writing. So,
>> right. Yeah. And you'll see if you ever
listen to those, you'll see what I'm
talking about. I really take my time to
try to make those like
>> in a poetic manner. So, it's not just
very surface writing. it's like has some
depth to it.
>> Uh and and maybe I might change that to
add that more to my book when I, you
know, doing that instead of focusing on
>> having those be the videos. But yeah, I
do everything myself. I learning to be
an interviewer. I'm learning, you know,
to film and edit and all it. That's all
done by me. So, um yeah, [clears throat]
it's just going to take some time and
working hard at it. But I think I think
I have a message that people resonate
with and that you know can really help
people and also goes back to crazy
stories too. Like my stories aren't the
craziest but you ever want some guests?
I got ones that are far crazier. Like
one of my buddies, his dad worked for
the cartel transferring over the border
and his mom was a prostitute. So he's
raised in literal, you know, trap houses
and um just his mom leaving for week on
end and they're like stealing to eat,
you know. So you got some crazy stories
in that sense and those people are mixed
in with upper class people I lived with,
you know. So
>> yeah, there's a lot of lot of different
paths to go go down and different
different stories to tell.
>> Hey you guys, really appreciate you
watching. and do me a favor. Hit the
subscribe button, hit the bell so you
get notified of videos just like this.
Also, if you'd like to go and subscribe
to Josh's uh channel or follow him on
any of his uh social uh medias, we're
going to leave those links in the
description box. So, you can go there,
you can subscribe to his channel and uh
check out his content. I really do
appreciate you guys watching. Thank you
very much. See you.
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