Ping Lee was born in China.
>> Do you think he'd insist that people say
>> Looking back now? [laughter]
>> You just said you weren't going to do
it.
>> I'm not doing a Chinese accent. I refuse
to do a Chinese accent. Hello, Matt Cox.
>> Hello, Tom Simon.
>> It is so good to be back with you.
>> It's great to be here.
>> Yes. I don't know if this will be our
last episode this year, but it's been a
hell of a year for us.
>> Yeah, it is. Yeah, I think I think this
might be episode 13 that I've been on
with you. Are you serious?
>> Yeah, I counted them up and I think each
episode is damn near two hours at least.
And so we have created over 24 hours of
solid gold content together.
>> It's a lot of How do you feel?
>> Right. [laughter]
I get exhausted with that many cops.
Anyway, so I have uh 12 stories for you
today.
>> Nice.
>> 12 true crime stories ripped from the
headlines of the FBI. um at least one of
them I investigated in the others or
other agents cases. And here's the game
and I'm explaining this even though I
know your fans know how this works. I'm
going to tell you the story of the crime
and as much as I know about it. You can
pepper me with as many questions which I
will answer. And then I want you to tell
me what is the sentence that this guy
got in prison. And if you are within a
20% variance of the actual sentence, you
win a point. Young Colby will be our
scorekeeper. If you get greater than 50%
of the available points correct, you are
a winner on your own show.
>> Nice.
>> If not,
>> seems easy enough.
>> You get evicted from this beautiful
studio.
>> All right.
>> Should we jump right into it?
>> Absolutely.
>> Okay. First story is a case that I
worked as a I was a case agent on it.
It's my only case that has its own
Wikipedia entry. Operation Crooked Code.
>> How come we haven't heard this one
before? This got its own Wikipedia
entry. We should have done this one.
>> It is. Do you know many Romanians?
>> Romanians. I do know a Romanian.
>> I feel like he was a part of the
Romanian mob and his name was Killian.
He kidnapped someone for his boss who
owed his boss money and he um
he taped him to a very much like very
much by the way like the James Bond
thing. They taped him to a chair and cut
out the bottom of it and he was naked.
No, he said you take a he said like a
cattle cattle prod.
>> Oh, they shocked his nuts.
>> Yeah, I guess they shocked him because
he
>> bastard.
>> Yeah. And I told him I said, "Bro, what
what if he doesn't pay?" And he goes,
"They always pay." And I go, "What do
you mean they always pay?" I said, "This
is the first time you did this, right?"
He goes,
>> "Yeah, yeah, it's the first time."
>> Right. This case involves Romanians, but
I came to actually really like Romanians
as a people. You know, again, you hate
stereotyping. I'm sure there's good and
bad people in Romania, but they are the
Romanian dudes are super dapper, always
well-groomed, always beautifully
dressed, and Romanian women are very
glamorous. The ones that I met, most of
these people are not in Romania, right?
The ones that I'm dealing with are in
Chicago,
>> right?
>> And so,
>> do you think they were like that in
Romania?
>> I have no idea. or maybe these are the
ones who got out and uh but they were
they were very kind of
>> I'm not going to say flashy but just
well put together and like like just
really really handsome and beautiful
people like uh like visually um even if
some of them had some moral issues,
[laughter] some ethical problems. Uh so
in Chicago we were having an issue and
uh and the issue was that the city
building inspectors departments were
crooked. they were taking bribes and we
had lots of intel about that from the uh
from the inspector generals for the
state city of Chicago and um and so the
inspector generals for the city of
Chicago and the US postal inspection
service began kind of investigating
corruption together without me and
without the FBI in the city of Chicago
building inspectors department and um
and they began fi they began developing
some informants within the Romanian
building community. Romanians are very
good tradesmen. Uh and and find and they
found a house that had been and just a
lot of rumors about um about builders
paying bribes and inspectors taking
bribes. And there was a common
denominator what they were finding.
There are people out there in Chicago at
least who have a job called expediter.
Do you know what an expediter is? Isn't
that is that someone that you you pay to
make sure something gets done much
quicker than it probably would on its
own?
>> Yeah. In the most pure world, an
expediter would be the person who stands
in line at the city building department
to get you a um to get you a building
permit.
>> Oh, that wasn't what I
>> Well, but also when it's time when in as
you're building a house from scratch,
let's say, um inspections need to happen
along the way. For instance, before you
put the drywall up, the electrical
inspector needs to come and take a look
at the electricity be the wiring behind
the walls to give it a thumbs up and
say, "This passes this passes this phase
of the electrical inspection." Same
thing with plumbing, right? You can't
have the plumber, plumbing inspector
come when the drywall's up and the
toilet's sitting there. You need to be
able to take a look at the pipes, make
sure they're slanted in the right
direction so gravity's working for you
to get the waste out and the good water
in. It's really very involved. And um
and so there was an expediter named
Benny. And so Benny, Romanian immigrant,
very good-looking guy, very nice
evangelical Christian. And uh
>> is all the the good-looking and dabber
is that is all this going to come into
play at some point or you just
mentioning it?
>> I'm I'm painting just impressed.
>> I'm painting a picture for you. Okay.
>> I'm painting a picture for you. And um
and so um and so the idea was that
Benny, we had intel that Benny was
soliciting was the one if you wanted to
make sure you passed your plumbing
inspection and had it done fast because
time is money when you have a a building
loan, you call Benny and he gets the
plumbing inspector there and you're
going to make sure you pass whether that
plumbing's good or not. And
>> Okay, nice.
>> And so Benny sounds like the guy to
know.
>> Benny is a good guy to know. But so when
we were thinking about perhaps going up
on a wire tap to try to try to build
cases against crooked building
inspectors and crooked builders paying
and receiving bribes, it would not make
sense for us to go up on a wire tap on a
crooked building inspector, right?
Because we're just going to catch one
guy. It also by the same token didn't
make sense for us to go up on a Romanian
builder or any builder because again
we're just going to catch one guy. What
if we went on a wiretap on the
expediter? the guy who's in the middle
of a lot of transactions for a lot of
builders and a lot of bribes being paid
to building inspectors. That's exactly
what we did. We went on a wire tap on
Benny and began listening to his calls.
And we had this three agency team of
postal inspectors, FBI agents, and city
of Chicago inspector general. The
inspector general guys, we put them on
the streets with their cameras to take
pictures of meetings between the
building inspectors and Benny and the
builders and Benny. uh when we would
hear that a bribe was going to be handed
off. And so we had all of us in the
wiretap room, then we're dispatching um
listening to Benny live and then we're
dispatching people. We kept the wire up.
We renewed the wire until Christmas time
because Benny uh was creating a um Benny
was going to be giving envelopes full of
cash to the building inspectors that he
was seeking to kind of buy their favor
for the next year because it wasn't
always a onetoone thing. he would, you
know, pay the building inspectors with
these kind of envelopes full of cash and
then they were beholden to him. Right.
>> Right. So, and so they were available
whenever he needed it. And so we found
just so much stuff going on with Benny.
And so, and so by the time we actually
were ready to take it down, there was
one transaction that stood out to me. It
was bad plumbing in a building. It was
all backwards. We had an inspector that
was helping us out go and take a look at
it and say, "The plumbing here is all
backwards. the plumbing that's
underneath the um the ground, underneath
the floorboards and behind the walls
needs to be slanted in a certain way. So
your when you flush the toilet, it kind
of, you know, it it it goes out to the
sewage system. This was all like
backward. They were slanted the wrong
way.
>> The poor bastard who was going to buy
this house was going to have plumbing
problems forever. There's no way this
would have passed inspection,
>> but the Romanian builder needed it to.
So, the Romanian builder contacted Benny
and and Benny took $7,000 and handed it
off as a bribe to a bu a plumbing
inspector named Mario. So, of all the
transactions we had and all the kind of
buzz about, you know, envelopes being
handed out in cash, this was a perfect
like situation for us to make the
centerpiece of the criminal charges
against Benny and this plumbing
inspector whose name is Mario. So, we
take it down. We arrest a ton of people,
all these building inspectors. We arrest
Benny. Well, we arrested Benny the day
before. I was there when we arrested
Benny. Benny was a muscle man. Worked
out every day. Uh we showed up to the um
to the gym when he was getting out of
it. And uh Benny, you're under arrest.
He puts his hands up. He comes in. And
the idea was this. I was going to be
handling the interrogation of Benny um
and me with me and a partner. We
arrested Benny before we arrested anyone
else because we wanted Benny to we
wanted to flip him and begin cooperating
and start paying bribes to city building
inspectors that we could do a better job
of capturing on tape.
>> Right. Benny had a wife and kids. He had
everything to lose, a a very successful
business. And so, um, and the way we did
it was this. We bring Benny into a room.
I sit him down. I said, "Benny, I want
to talk to you, but before I and I want
you to say a word." I have not meanded
him yet. I want you to listen to some
things. I hit play on the tape recorder
that I had set up. And I and I basically
played him 30 minutes of Benny's
greatest hits from our wire tap. Taking
a bribe, paying a bribe, agreeing to
take a bribe. Some of the conversations
are in Romanian. I have no idea what
they're saying. We had Romanian
translators here.
>> It was bad.
>> It was all bad. And Benny's sitting
there just looking very deflated. And uh
I said, "Benny, listen. Now, at this
point, I want to talk to you about
what's going on here. And we want to
solicit your help. My hope is that you
can go home tonight and spend the night
with your family, and we would love for
you to work with us, not against us. We
want you on the government bus, not
under the government bus." I said, "You
have the right to remain silent." Bum
bum. Go through it all. He looks at me
and goes, "I'd like my attorney." Uh
Benny was not interested in cooperating.
He had no he was gonna he was not going
to testify against anyone. He wasn't
going to set anyone up. And so then so
we take Benny to jail that night and
then the next morning at like 4 in the
morning we go out and we just arrest
everybody. Everyone else, all the
building because we were hoping we could
kick that down the road and have Benny
make some better cases for us.
>> But we had good cases. So we arrested,
let me get you some numbers. 21 21
people. 15 of them were city employees.
Okay. So, you know, a sizable takedown
and and hopefully if for some window of
time change the culture of bribery in
the city of Chicago building inspectors,
>> different people got different amounts
of time based on what they did versus
how much money they did versus what
favors they did, etc. But I want to ask
you about Benny and Mario. Benny pleads
guilty to conspiracy, sort of the 371
conspiracy charge. and he pleads guilty
to the very specific bribe, the $7,000
bribe he played. He um he paid Mario,
refused to cooperate, refused to do
anything, was just going to take his
lumps like a man. Did not want to he had
this honor system in his mind that he
wasn't going to cooperate against
anyone. Mario,
>> it didn't feel that way.
>> Well, no, Mario didn't cooperate. Mario
had 17 years in as a city employee. I
didn't think that Mario really cared
much about going to prison or not. Mario
did not want to lose his sweet, sweet
government pension.
>> Yeah.
>> Right. So, Mario goes to trial and
loses.
>> Right. Benny did not cooperate against
anyone. Benny pleads guilty, doesn't say
a word to anyone, never cooperates,
never is interviewed, and takes his
lumps like a man.
>> Okay.
>> So, you got two defendants here. Mario,
who accepted a $7,000 bribe with
allegations of other ones on the tape
that were not observed or kind of
monitored, and goes to trial and loses
as a city employee. Benny, who expedited
many, many bribes but plead guilty to
this one and then a conspiracy to have
done others, says nothing and pleads
guilty. What sentences are you going to
give Mario, the building inspector, and
Benny, the expediter? No criminal
history on either man. Is there a dollar
loss associated with either?
>> Not a loss. It's a weird kind of case,
right? Because it's not it's a bribery
to
do a corrupt act of government. So the
the bribe was $7,000, but I don't
believe the sentencing guidelines it
doesn't really matter if the bribe is
$7,000 or$7,00070,000.
I perhaps the judge would take that into
consideration, but I don't think the
dollar it's not like a fraud guidelines
where you plug in the dollar amount and
spit something out.
>> This is this falls under a different
guidelines range for um acts of
corruption and bribery. So, the guy that
goes to
um trial
>> uh I think gets
uh
48 months.
>> 48 months.
>> 48 months.
>> And how much were you going to give
Benny the expediter?
>> Benny the Expediter
I think he
probably guess is three years. 36. 48
and 36.
>> Okay. 48 and 36.
All right. So, let's do this. Move this
along. Mario, the building inspector,
you said 48 months.
>> Yes.
>> He was sentenced to 41 months. So, you
are within a 20% variance.
>> Okay. Benny, the expediter, you said 36
months. He was sentenced to 24 months.
So, you are not
>> within 20% variance.
>> Okay.
And then everyone involved with the case
accused me of writing the Wikipedia
entry really and putting it up there.
And I said, you know, I did not because
my name is not in the Wikipedia entry.
>> A
>> and had I written it up, I would not be
able to resist the idea of taking credit
for this case. Of
>> course, [laughter]
I would have been and then although as
handsome as these these uh Romanians
were, then there was Tom Simon.
>> Yeah. [laughter]
>> The FBI agent.
>> Exactly. I just remember all these
Romanians that I met in this case and
how like incredibly dashing they were.
They they really were like I I would
have changed looks with all of them.
Yeah. So that's Operation Crooked Code
and you are one and one. I know people
have said things about you, Matt Cox.
[laughter]
>> What does that mean?
>> We're I'm getting there.
>> Okay.
>> And and I'm sure you've heard about the
kind of the urban or among criminals the
the no snitching ethos.
>> No snitching, man. No snitching. I'm not
low blow.
>> I'm not saying lowb blow, but I've I've
heard you criticized for being a snitch
and stuff like that. And listen, my
whole career relied on people doing the
right thing and cooperating with the
government. So, in my mind, you're a
hero. [laughter]
That's not going to help. Yeah. Right.
Right. But I know that in certain
communities there's a real no snitching
ethos that people take to heart and it's
a source of pride. We talked about this
Romanian guy, Benny. I'd never heard him
use describe it in those terms, but he
was clearly living by that ethos. And I
guess I just want to hear your thoughts
about that. And is it a real thing or is
it mostly people paying lip service
until they actually have skin in the
game?
>> I mean, mostly people cooperate. Like
most of the time they they all What was
it the uh uh SIS officer at Coleman said
uh I remember one time I I said to him
that I said, "Listen, man." And I said,
"You scream snitch on this
compound." I said, "Half the compound
turns around." He goes, he goes, "More
than that, like [laughter]
and he said he said he he said uh he
said the difference is though he said
100% of them are lying about it."
>> Yeah.
>> And he's like and because I had come out
on like on the front page of the
newspaper that I'd cooperated, so
they're talking about shipping me
somewhere. Um anyway, but yeah, I would
say just based on there was, you know,
there was actually a study done by the
uh by the federal sentencing guidelines
on cooperation. It's actually a list of
who coop like the charges and how they
cooperate. It's like and it's
outrageous. And the big thing is a lot
of people cooperate. They don't get the
cooperation,
>> right?
>> So like maybe 90 it might be 95% of drug
dealers cooperate, but only 87% get
cooperation. get the third off the low
end of the guidelines or whatever the
deal is that they're being given for
cooperating.
>> Like they gave them information, but the
information didn't pan out. And so, but
for inmate perspective, uh those guys
would still say, "Well, you still tried.
You're you cooperated."
>> But I I would say that it's something
like 80 90% cooperate, but 100% of
everybody's lying about it. Very few
people don't cooperate.
>> Yeah, I think this Benny fellow was
unique in that regard where he could
have really helped himself and his
family and he chose not to. And and I've
also had cases that I've told on the
show of like a Chicago mobster who
didn't want to cooperate against other
mobsters. He would rather just take the
hit for the crime because he's worried
about the safety of his family or his
own future in the community and stuff
like that. But I know I dealt with that
a lot as an agent on the street in some
communities where you would talk to
somebody and they didn't want to talk to
me and and then it's just a coaxing job
to get them to cooperate. I nearly I
could break almost everybody just in a
in a well I mean it's in a very logical
reasonable conversation about how this
thing is going to turn out anyway. Most
of the people that I knew that didn't
cooperate were, it's funny you say that,
reasonable were were irrational. Yes.
>> Right. Like they they try and do the
whole, oh, my family, it's like, well,
wait a minute. You're you're an
accountant. Yeah. like you like nobody
was going to kill your family or you
nobody and and it was always usually it
was because maybe they thought they
could win at trial or they thought you
know they had some reason that was and
that wasn't the real reason why they
didn't cooperate and then then they just
lean then they were able while they were
in prison they they kind of rested on
yeah man
>> you know who's really embraced the no
snitching ethos who
>> every commenter on every video I
have where I tell the story about
someone cooperating and it's like he's a
snitch I can't believe that guy snitched
snitch or when if I tell a story about
someone who refused to I've told this
Benny story before on my social media I
was like good Benny don't don't be a
snitch don't cooperate no no snitching
I'm like all right tough guy in your
mom's basement
>> yeah I was [laughter] going to say
that's easy to say until you're you got
your lawyer saying look we got a plea
right now on the table for 20 years and
you're like I think you should take it
what [laughter]
you can cooperate you can be out and
>> once you have some skin in the game your
perspective may change well let's see
how this one played out with the no
snitching ethos um this case began this
case takes place in Sumpter County,
Georgia. A uh a local church called the
police and said weird things. A lot of
the people who go to our church, who
live in our little community within the,
you know, a mile or so of the church,
have been getting their checks stolen
from their mailboxes. And uh and we're
kind of concerned. We don't think
anyone's targeting our church, but we
sort of have the the corner on the
market in this community in Sumpre
County, Georgia, because it's that mail
theft. The police loop in the US Postal
Inspection Service, right? Their mail
theft's their jam. And they also begin
bring in the FBI because we tend to work
very well with each other uh postal
inspectors and FBI and uh they begin
compiling information about the people
in the neighborhood. And then they begin
taking a look at the checks themselves.
What happened to these stolen checks
that were mailed from the government or
whomever to these people?
>> There were still cash somewhere.
>> Yeah, for sure. And they were not even
cash. They were deposited into the bank
accounts of 14 different people. Just
totally different people. You know, you
can sign in the back of the check. Then
the check becomes a negotiable
instrument. So they're forging the name
of the person on the check and then for
doing it below. If you have an app, you
don't even need to forge it anymore. You
just take the picture. So 14 different
people are fraudulently endorsing the
backs of these stolen checks and
depositing them in their own accounts.
And then it's time to go talk to the
fraudulent depositors. How many do you
think actually stood firm with their no
snitching ethos?
>> Feel like none of them would because
they they didn't get into this to end up
in jail.
>> Zero. Exactly. And they all had the same
story that they were recruited to
negotiate these checks off of Facebook
by a guy named Rosco.
And Rosco Rosco called me. Rosco hit me
up on Facebook and said I could make
some money if I just deposit these
checks, keep some of the money, and then
give him the rest into my bank account.
>> Guy named Rosco in Georgia.
>> Yeah. Yeah. And I know you're shocked.
The depositors reach given a couple
hundred bucks by Rosco for depositing
the stolen checks, withdrawing the
money, and giving the balance to Rosco.
uh who's Rosco, right? There's a mystery
to be solved here. They begin analyzing
the phone records because these people
are getting text messages and it comes
right back to a guy, 26-year-old Jaylen
Hill of Americus, Georgia, nearby. He
was able to rip off $166,000
in checks in the scheme before he was
arrested by the uh feds and I believe
the Sumpre County Police Sheriff's
Department were involved. Um, each one
of the 14 check depositors plead guilty
to bank fraud, but each of them got
probation because of their willingness
to cooperate against Jaylen Hill. They
did not live by the no snitching rule.
They lived by the self-preservation,
stay out of prison, be with my family
rule. And when it when push came to
shove, they did the right thing and
cooperated with the government just like
my hero that does. [laughter]
What did what did uh Rosco or what's his
real name? Jaylen aka Rosco the ring
leader was hit with bank fraud and
identity theft charges which is also
key.
>> Yeah.
>> Which all which gave him a prison
sentence of finish the sentence back.
>> Did he did he Well, I mean he has to do
he plead guilty. He has to do two years
>> for the the aggravated identity theft
>> adds two years.
>> I'm going to assume also that he had a
criminal history of some kind. I don't
have that specific information, but
>> what was the what how much what was the
>> $166,000
in stolen checks? Uh let's say for at
least 14 stolen checks uh laundered
through the uh poor people on Facebook
who had an ability to make a couple
hundred bucks. Now, he didn't get the
whole 166,000 because he needed to pay a
commission to the uh depositors,
>> right? Um
I don't know.
I hate to say 60 months. Uh 60 months.
Let's go. 16 months.
>> 60 months is your guess.
>> Yeah.
>> Okay. Which is what? Five years.
>> Yeah. So, I'm saying four years plus the
two.
>> So, it's 60, right?
>> Yeah. Well, that was that would be the
math. [laughter]
>> Okay. Yes.
>> And And you think that because the
dollar amount, the criminal history
criminal history? So,
>> I think he definitely has a criminal
history.
>> Yeah. Cuz that's going to jack it up
because for 160 cuz you can steal
160,000 in the federal system and barely
get any time at all. You know, you can
get a few months. But the identity theft
also racket
>> which adds two years. So he's doing at
least that's why I said he's doing at
least 24 months.
>> Okay.
>> Um so that's why I'm thinking that the
160 criminal history is a couple years.
>> Yeah.
>> So probably maybe I go 50. I'm going to
go Wait a minute. Let me think about
this.
>> Okay. Here we go. We're amending this.
We're revising. I love it when you do
this because it always turns out so well
for you.
>> 54 months.
>> Now we're at 54 months. It went down
from 60. You're giving him a discount.
Now you're letting him out 6 months
early in the US United States of Matthew
Cox.
>> 54 months. Let's go 54.
>> You feel bad because they they had
people snitching on him.
>> No, they violated the code. So you're
giving him a discount.
>> I just I think 5 uh well because I was
still thinking, okay, I was thinking you
could probably get three months if he
had no criminal history and there was an
aggravated identity theft. And I
thought, well, let's say he's got a
criminal record and he bumps it up. It's
not going to bump still pretty low. I
was thinking it'd probably bump him up
from zero or three months to probably
maybe two years. So, I'm thinking, we
don't know how many obviously got maybe
got a a more lengthy criminal history.
So, let's go ahead and go two and a half
years plus the two years. So, we're
looking at
>> You've lost me with your math.
>> 50 54 months. 54.
>> Now, we're at 54. We're at 60. We're now
at 54.
>> Yes. 54. That's four and a half years.
>> Is that your final answer?
>> Absolutely.
>> Okay. The correct answer was 80 months.
That was no good. It wasn't even
close either way.
>> 8 months in federal prison.
>> Oh, was it [snorts] close either way?
>> Jaylen Hill, who got snitched on.
>> Boy, he listen.
>> You think he spent the whole time in
prison bitching about the snitches?
>> I'm positive he did. [laughter]
>> I wonder if he wonder if he got locked
up with any of them. No, no, cuz they
all got probation. They probation.
>> Yeah. They try to keep people away like
uh if someone if someone testifies
against someone else, they try to
separate them.
>> As soon as you go in that you go to the
different departments, right? Like
medical sees, do you have any problems?
Like, yeah, no. And then you say, do you
have this? And one of the departments,
they come in and they say, which is SIS,
and they'll come in and they'll say, um,
have you cooperated against anyone in
your case? If you say, yes, I did. They
go, what's his name? And tell them the
name. They look him up and they go, he's
on the compound. We can't let you on the
compound. Or they'll they'll give you if
he's not even if he's not on the
compound that you're going so you're
going to the pin,
>> they'll say, okay. And they'll they'll
do what's called a separate so that it
follows you wherever you go. If you say,
"Hey, I want to go to Miami." They'll be
like, "Okay, yeah, yeah, I'll push you
in from Miami." And they'll they'll be
like, "Oh, no. I guess you've got a
separate against this guy, Michael
Johnston. He's in Miami."
>> Okay. Related question. Do
co-conspirators get to serve time
together if they don't have a problem
with it and they're not a threat to one
another?
>> Uh, yeah. Yeah, they can. I knew guys,
multiple guys that were on each other's
cases.
>> Okay.
>> As long as there's no separate.
>> Yeah. Interesting. I would think that
you'd want to separate them more than
anyone. Right. I mean, they conspired to
commit a crime together. The last thing
you want to do is just
>> lock them up together with nothing to do
but come up with bright ideas.
>> Yeah. You know where we went wrong last
time.
>> Yeah. Right. Exactly. Next time you
drive. Yeah. All right. So, um, you ever
been to Bleise?
>> You know anything about Bleise?
>> I It's supposed to be very pretty. I've
been to Bleise.
>> Oh, nice. How was it?
>> Um, I didn't like it.
>> No.
>> Here's my problem with Bise. Here's my
problem with Bise. I went There's a
Bise. Uh, they have an island that's
part of Bleise. And, uh, um, here's my
problem with Bise. It was food was fine,
people were fine, sunshine was fine, the
beaches were nice, but the first 50
yards from the edge of the water to the
water itself had thick, long seaweed
everywhere. I could not find a beach
that you could actually like go into the
water on without like just kind of like
being among this like gross seaweed.
>> That's it. I didn't like it. [laughter]
You're spending a fortune on a family
vacation. You go to Bise. Maybe you want
to get in the water.
>> I mean, you could probably just Yeah,
that's true.
>> Yeah. We, you know, we had a
>> Can't they rake it? Can't they rake it
or something? But they don't.
>> Was it that Was it like a specific time
of year? You think
>> it was Christmas?
>> Was it slime that slimy? Was it the
thick? This isn't just washes on shore.
It was like in the ground planted under
the water for like probably 50 yards
going out from the shore. So there was
no, it wasn't like you could rake it up
or something like that. You would need a
bulldozer, I guess, to uproot it.
>> Yeah, we got to do something about that.
>> Yeah, thumbs down. Biz, come at me in
the comments. [laughter]
>> This story um is about a guy named Mark
Romeo
and uh and he also, which is a fake
name, he also used the name [snorts]
Andy Storm. [laughter] Come on. I know.
Like a romance novel.
>> Yeah. I was just thinking that these are
romance.
>> His real name was Audrey's Pukey.
>> Well, no wonder. No wonder.
>> Exactly. If my name was Pukey, I'd
probably use a fake name also.
>> So [snorts] Andy, Mr. Pukey, um Andy
Storm, sold investments on in a vacation
and retirement community in Bise that he
was going to be developing. It was
called Sanctuary Bise. Isn't that nice?
>> Yeah. He's He's quite the wordsmith.
Yeah, he did a lot of marketing for it
online. He took in, brace yourself, $100
million
from hundreds of victims who bought lots
sight unseen on this island paradise.
>> Wow.
>> $100 million because he's going to
develop Bise and build this amazing
community. None of the investors knew
that Andy had a prior fraud conviction
back in the year 2003 relating to a scam
called Ameridet,
which is another reason why he dumped
the pukey name and became Mark Romeo in
Andy Storm. Capich?
>> Yes.
>> Okay. So, they say a zebra never changes
his stripes and neither did Andy. The
entire sanctuary bise concept was
nonsense. He It was all smoke and
mirrors. there was he didn't even own
the land to develop. It was just an idea
that existed solely between his ears. Um
I guess at some point though he had some
plot of land that he didn't own that he
was involved in developing. It was it
was halfass saddled in debt. Um and so
he steals $10 million from investor
deposits from this hundred million to
build his own waterfront home. And uh
and so but he doesn't even build it in
Bise. He builds it in the Bahamas.
>> Okay. Okay.
>> So, he like takes takes 10 million off
the top to build a build a house in the
Bahamas for himself.
>> I mean, this I mean, this this is
eventually that he he's not realizing at
some point this whole thing falls apart
and it doesn't really matter if you have
your own compound.
>> Spoiler alert, Matt. That's why we're
telling the story. Uh it he becomes a
target of an FBI investigation when
sanctuary bise was never constructed. Um
and he says, "Whoa, whoa, FBI, no. You
don't get it. This whole thing's legit."
And he goes and begins cooking up fake
documents to present to the FBI to
convince them that he's innocent. This
whole thing's a misunderstanding and
that it's all going to get built.
>> Yeah. So, he's creating fake documents
to buy himself time which earned him him
an obstruction of justice charge on top
of the fraud charge.
>> Um Andy took the case to trial.
>> Yeah. And uh
>> that Okay, that seems uh reckless.
>> Right. Right. Right. And so um he was
sentenced to eight years in federal
prison. He had to forfeit his $10
million $10 million in assets and he has
a restitution bill hanging over his head
in the amount of $120 million which is
also the guidelines number.
How much time do you think you're going
to give Mr. Pukey, also known as Andy
Storm, also known as Mark Romeo?
>> I'm going to go with eight years.
>> Eight years.
Well, tell me why you think eight years.
>> Because you just told me eight years.
You said he did eight years. You were
reading off the thing and you just
>> Oh, Did I? [laughter]
>> Yes.
>> And Colby and I looked at each other
like, [laughter]
>> did he just say eight years?
>> Did I?
>> You said he got You said, you know, had
>> eight years imprisonment. No, me. I
usually try to cross that out. I'm like,
she
>> I wouldn't have even seen it. Like, I
mean, you just said
>> I know. I know. I'm so sorry.
>> No, that's a win. That's a win. What
would you have said? [laughter]
>> I'm so sorry. I go through my scripts
and I edit out the sentencing and I and
I moved it down here. Eight years, but I
forgot to cross it down in my text
>> because of his prior charge. I probably
would have said more than eight years.
>> Yeah.$10 million seems low. 100 million
is the lo 120 million is the loss.
>> Oh, the loss was one. Oh, okay. I I went
>> 10 mill 10 million is how much they were
able to recover from uh from what he sh
>> He got a bargain at eight years.
>> Yeah. Yeah, I thought so, too.
>> He must have Somebody must have been
helping him. He went to trial. Oh, he
went to trial. Oh, he couldn't even even
cooperated. Oh, wow. What an idiot.
Yeah. No way. I would have never come
close to that,
>> right? Well, I'm sorry to urinate all
over the game here.
>> Yeah. No, I'm I'm good with that.
>> It's good for engagement. The comments,
you know, I had the camera on Matt. He's
like looking over here like, "Yeah."
Yeah. So, it'll be good.
>> I'm sorry, audience.
>> I should have done a whole
>> a thing. Yeah.
>> I don't know. Let me think about this. I
think this. I think
>> I need to put my brain in gear and to
turn my mouth off.
>> So, I noticed when I walked in here that
you had a little like poster up
regarding The Wolf of Wall Street.
>> Mhm.
>> Do you like that movie?
>> Uh, I thought it was too long. But yeah,
I I liked it. I just think it was a
little little too long. The drug stuff
was too much. It was But yeah, you ever
interviewed Jordan Belfford? He seems
like he'd be a perfect guest for your
show.
>> Sore subject.
>> Very upsetting. I I've tried multiple
times. I I at one point I was supposed
to be interviewed by him on his show and
then they but just when I was flying out
to California be interviewed by like
three different podcasts. He was one of
them.
>> Yeah.
>> I was like, "Hey, what time do I be
there? What's the address?" And I was I
was
>> I was corresponding with his assistant,
which I think was his girlfriend, and
then she just ghosted me.
>> And then I've reached out to him other
times. I've tried to contact him. I even
made little paintings of him.
>> Oh gosh.
>> And mailed the paintings to
>> Where's my Where's my painting?
[laughter]
>> I come here every month. I don't have a
painting.
>> No response.
>> That's weird. Wait till he's trying to
sell something. I guess then he'll you
know there's a new book or whatever.
>> Well, and he did he went on Vlad which
bothers me. Like you went on I think
what happens is if you were to try to
say, "Hey, I'll pay you." I think at
this point he's like not doing anything
probably without money
>> until he has something to promote
probably.
>> Oh yeah, probably. Right.
>> We did interview his wife.
>> Oh, we did interview the, you know, the
Duchess of uh
>> the one who was played by the pretty
blonde lady in the movie.
>> Yeah. Yeah, we interviewed the the real
um
>> Duchess of Bay Ridge, I think.
>> Bay Ridge. Yeah. The real one. So, kind
of neat.
>> It did. Okay. Right. 300.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's over 100
at least.
>> Oh, okay. I thought it was.
>> Would she have gotten paid for the movie
for having her someone play her part? I
guess now you don't get a piece of that
action.
>> As a matter of fact, when he called her,
which I'm sure she probably thinks is a
mistake now. when he called her to
explain, hey, I'm writing a book,
>> or no, they're doing a movie, whatever
it was,
>> um, he said, do you mind if they use
your real name? And she said, uh, I want
you to change my name. So, they they
changed it subtly.
>> It's like Naomi Naomi is one, and the
other one is, uh, Naen. Yeah. I don't
know which one's which, but uh, yeah,
but then she now she's written a book
>> and she's a psychiatrist of some kind or
a counselor. Yeah,
>> she's wrote a book and now now she's
going around on all the podcasts
promoting using that promotion. So
that's what I'm saying. I'm sure she now
realizes I should have just
since eventually I was going to jump on
the bandwagon. I should have just gone
in and let him use my name. But yeah.
>> Well, you may or may not ever get the
Wolf of Wall Street on your show, but if
you play your cards right and time it
correctly, you could get the Wolf of
West Virginia on your show. His name is
Teddy Miller. He's 34 years old and he
portrayed himself on social media as a
multi-million dollar real estate mogul
who was taking West Virginia by storm.
He gave himself the nickname the wolf of
West Virginia. Evidently forgetting how
that movie ended. I
>> was going to say I was as a fraudster.
[laughter]
He was he was offering high yield
investments in real estate in a real
estate fund where he was going to be
rehabbing and developing residential
properties in West Virginia
>> and he was guaranteeing people risk-free
returns. Matt Cox
>> fraud
>> uh with returns as high as 20% and a
turnaround time of 60 days. You give me
that you give me 100,000 bucks, I can
turn that around and make it into
120,000 bucks in two months
>> because I'm the wolf of West Virginia.
Ponzi scheme.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> It seems so credible because he had this
social media. He was an influencer,
right, with him flying on private planes
and living a life of leisure
>> with your with your deposits.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He's muscular guy with
a beard and all that. A 100 investors
from all over the country uh invested
money with Teddy to get a piece of this
program because they wanted to be
associated with the Wolf of West
Virginia and his investment program.
>> What was his name again? His real name.
>> Teddy Miller.
>> Teddy Miller. Do you have a picture of
Teddy Miller?
>> Let's see.
>> He looks kind of like that Blizzerian
fellow.
>> Really?
>> Like that kind of type, you know, with
like sort of the the mountain man beard,
but kind of chiseled good looks.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. He looks uh
>> Am I right?
>> A little Yeah, he looks more like um
>> Who who to compare him to?
>> Uh yeah. Yeah. You can't see him because
he's so far away, but he looks like more
like
>> you got the Dolce and Gabbat going
around the uh
>> more fufu than Dan Dan Bazil Brazilian
whatever like a Yeah. Dulce Kabana like
a New Jersey,
>> right? So he forgot to tell his
investors that his social media persona
was complete nonsense. That just that
slipped his mind.
>> He was living monthtomonth uh with poor
credit and defaulting on loans,
delinquent on taxes. Things were not
actually going very well for him
personally. He never even owned the
buildings that he was purporting to
renovate and flip. Never never even
owned them. Uh but he uses the money
that's coming in from the investors to
kind of prop up the illusion of a
luxurious lifestyle. Something we've
talked about before when it comes to
these social media influencers who are
committing fraud to create that
illusion. Kind of fake it till you make
it. Um he couldn't pay people back.
Happens. calls in the FBI and during the
investigation he was caught destroying
evidence and so he was also indicted for
>> how sorry how do they get on to him?
Yeah, the investors I've worked hundreds
of these type of cases. When the
investors aren't getting paid back,
right, they get upset and call the FBI,
>> right? [laughter]
>> None of them just say, "Okay, got me."
>> Well, I I guess they'll just net this
against my income. No, they call the my
phone that my phone starts ringing. Had
they called me, you know, when the it
was actually happening, we could have
done more. But no one calls me when this
whole thing collapses and Teddy stops
returning their calls. Um, here's a
wrinkle and why we have two defendants.
Teddy's mom, uh, Diananna Drum, age 61,
she handled the day-to-day t the back
office of the business. Um, and she was
and it it was proven beyond a reasonable
doubt that she um that she was in on it
as far as like kind of like moving the
money around and aiding in abetting the
sale of unregistered security. She's
she's working the back office. Teddy's
the face of the operation. Teddy's
enjoying the money, but his mom is is a
mechanic in the background kind of
pulling the strings, keeping track of
stuff. Um, you know, emailing people on
his behalf, things like that. Okay. The
loss amount though for all, you know, I
guess West Virginia real estate is not
worth as much as Manhattan real estate
was only $400,000.
>> Oh.
>> But spread over about a hundred
different people, right? So, he was
taking small dollar investments from
people for the most part, which I think
is why he was able to draw in so many
people. and uh you know and 400,000 goes
a long way in West Virginia.
>> Yeah.
>> Okay. So, we have and both plead guilty.
Um Teddy, the face of the business, the
guy who's holding this out this
investment program. He's the wolf of
West Virginia after all. And then his
mom, Deanna, age 61. I'm sure she's a
kindly old looking old lady in the back
in the back room moving the money,
handling the money, sending out emails,
kind of doing the back office operation.
Both plead guilty.
Uh her charge was aiding and abetting
the sale and offer of unregistered
securities. Okay. Very kind of technical
thing.
>> He probably plead guilty to the same
thing in addition to fraud. Oh no, I'm
sorry. He No, he got instruct
obstruction of justice and fraud.
>> What time you give How much time you
give the wolf? How much time you giving
his mommy?
I think mom gets
I'm going to say mom gets let's say 18
months and he gets three years.
>> Okay. So 18 months and 36 months.
>> Yes.
>> Okay.
>> You want to think about that? You want
to talk it out?
>> No, I don't. This is the worst part. I'd
rather you just say you're wrong and
move on. All right. Well, it's your toy
with me.
>> Okay. Fine. Fine. Fine. You're wrong.
[laughter]
You want to want to do the next one or
you want to know the numbers.
>> How bad is it?
>> It's really bad. Um, it's only $400,000.
>> Oh, it's it's theund victims
>> and obstruction of justice.
>> Yeah. Well, that's
>> which I told you twice. So, my
conscience is clear. He got 84 MONTHS.
>> OH MY GOD. YOU'RE TELLING ME 100 victims
and mass marketing because there's an
enhancement for that. Using the internet
to sell this and uh and obstruction
of justice. 84 months. The wolf's
inside.
>> He must have had a criminal record. He
he
>> I don't know cuz guess what? Mom got 48
months for being the back office lady
and selling unregistered securities in a
conspiracy case.
>> The judge was not playing games with Mr.
and Mrs. Wolf.
>> Yeah, maybe it's Yeah.
>> All right.
>> West Virginia. Maybe they're just really
harsh down there.
>> Okay. So, we we covered a bunch of fraud
stories, financial crimes, which I know
is your bailick, notwithstanding the
fact that you're doing really poorly.
>> What am I at now?
>> Two of six. Two of six.
>> Two of six. And one of them, one of them
I accidentally handed to you on a silver
floor.
>> Yeah, you were two of four and now
you're two of six because two of
>> I don't like the I don't like the two
people uh stories because it makes me
sound
>> I know you're a lone wolf yourself with
your crimes, but sometimes people get
involved in criminal conspiracies. So,
crime your river because we have at
least one more where there's two of
them. All right, so we're kind of done.
I think we're done with the financial
crimes for better or worse. And now
we're gonna get into kind of more other
types of crimes and then we're gonna get
really weird and depraved toward the end
of the episode. Okay? So stay stay with
us if you're into weird and depraved.
>> All right. So um
you ever do time with anyone who is
involved in trying to steal money from
an automatic teller machine?
>> Damn. I was going to say before you I
was going to jump in with yes because
I've been feel like I've been locked up
with every single flavor
>> but the answer is no. However,
>> I do
I have interviewed people
>> okay
>> that have robbed those like the ATMs
>> the the machines themselves or the
people refilling them?
>> Well, actually I I've done time with a
guy that robbed someone who was
refilling. Okay. Okay.
>> So, he was refilling and he robs that
guy.
>> And then uh I've done time with a guy
who was actually worked for the company
was removing collect the money and
restock the machines.
>> And then I also interviewed a guy who
was robbing the ATMs
>> like like cracking them open somehow and
trying to get the cartridge. Yeah.
>> Yeah. And
>> you can see you can see the allure of
that crime versus robbing a bank. I
mean, you know, maybe you want to rob a
bank and you you know, you want the
money that's in the bank, but you're not
really crazy about terrorizing a uh a
poor teller and sticking a gun in her
face or risking a security guard who
happens to be in the bank or a cop in
line behind you. So, I see the allure of
a ATM burglary. And that's the story I
want to tell you right now. But,
>> how would you do it?
>> How would I do it?
>> That's what we need to know. [laughter]
The problem though is that if you're
going to burglarize an ATM, you're still
on the hook for basically a bank theft,
right? Stealing from a bank, which makes
things federal as opposed to, you know,
taking money from the vault at the local
liquor store, for example.
>> So, we have 53-year-old Abdul Raheem
Jalal
in Dealb County, Georgia.
>> He really wanted to get into the Bank of
America ATM at the Dalb Mall. It was
like his focus, like his this was going
to be his his Mount Everest that he
needed to conquer. And so Jalal built a
bomb
and he brought it to the ATM at 3 in the
morning.
I I imagine he like lights the fuse,
like runs behind a tree, plugs his ears.
That's how Wy Coyote would have done it.
But he set off the bomb and blew up the
ATM
like, you know, blew it to smitherines.
>> Oh, okay.
>> It worked. It worked. He blows up the
machine and he's able to get at go to
the vault, take out a cartridge, maybe
two cartridges, I don't know how it all
works. $90,000.
>> Wow. I don't understand. He 90,000 each
one of them or just total?
>> He was able to get $90,000 from the ATM
that he had exploded with a bomb at
a.m.
>> So, this is a Are you telling me that
there was a Middle Easter that was able
to figure out how to make a bomb?
>> Are you sitting down, Matt? [laughter]
>> Are you sitting down, Matt? Yeah, I'm
sure that didn't help. Keep that in mind
when we talk about the sentencing.
So, you know, he's got all this money
now. What's a guy going to do? He goes
on a gambling spree in a North Carolina
casino.
And so, the investigators are eventually
able to um to track Jalal down through
cell phone, you know, uh actually cell
phone tracking. And um yeah, it was
mostly cell phone tracking. And he um
and so they do a search warrant of his
house because that's what we do, right?
You go in, you can't just take the word.
His cell phone puts him at the location
just enough to get probable cause.
Probably not enough to convict him. So
you the search warrant of his house. Do
you find any bomb making materials
there? Like wicks, you know, things like
that.
>> Wicks. Why do you
>> I don't know. I picture lighting a wick
and running like, you know, I don't
know. I've never built a bomb. Um and uh
and they hit the jackpot. The FBI did
the search warrant of his house and they
find eight fully assembled or
nearcompleted pipe bombs at the search.
>> Right. So, the evidence is starting to
get better. Matt Cox.
>> Yeah.
>> Right.
>> And uh and so ATF was involved with this
as well. And they he gets arrested and
um and they seize the m and they find
some of the money that leftover money.
They recover. It's
>> getting worse and worse for him.
>> Yeah. and the explosive devices he made
at home. Also evidence. Uh he pleads
guilty.
[snorts] How much time you going to give
Abdul Raheem Jalal of Decal County,
Georgia?
I feel like he gets 20 years. He can't
be blowing up. What? And [laughter]
if it was a crowbar, he'd get less.
>> Yeah. Don't you think? I think
definitely he would get less. You You're
blowing stuff up. That's a big deal.
That's like it's like the difference
between having a oh, you know, he robbed
the place with a gun and robbing the
place with a gun that has the serial
number scratched off and a silencer.
It's like whoa. Or one's a handgun and
one is a fully automatic machine gun.
It's like, one's a lot more dangerous.
>> The overkill uh you know
>> the bomb to me it's like that's serious
business. Super serious. I would think
there's got to be like a mandatory
minimum or something, right? It's not my
expertise. I was a fraud guy. But yeah,
I I'm with you. I think my guess is that
he probably plead guilty to both the
bank lararseny and some sort of exp, you
know, use of a weapon of mass
destruction type of charge. I I'm
guessing I don't have that information.
I wish I did.
>> I knew a guy that burned down like a
warehouse and got 15 years cuz they
don't find arson funny at all. Yeah, it
was insurance fraud. But the what what
got him at the time was the burning the
>> kill a firefighter.
>> Yeah. You could kill like that
>> or a neighbor or whatever.
>> I was going to say that could set up a
chain spark. Yeah, look at the Chicago
fire. Mrs. Oolir's cow kicks over a
lamp. Next, they know the whole city's
in ashes.
>> Or I was going to say, what's the uh
what's the thing up in uh in in
California? They just had
>> they call the California wildfires,
right?
>> No, no, I was thinking they burnt that
whole neighborhood down. The whole area
burned down. What? I forget.
>> Like Palisades,
whatever. Yeah. Yeah. That whole place,
right? Like that's somebody probably I
don't know who ended up starting it, but
whatever. Um,
I mean, you know, I
so [laughter]
this is horrible.
>> I can see I can see him sitting at the
defense table, too. [laughter]
>> Your honor, we're asking for probation.
I don't know.
>> You think you think his ethnicity may
have played into the uh the judge's
decision?
>> I need to pray. [laughter]
>> Little prayer thing.
>> I know. It bums you out when people
can't overcome their own stereotypes
sometimes.
>> I mean, I'm going to say 20 years, which
I'm sure I'm wrong.
>> You think you're overshooting or
undershooting?
>> I think I'm probably I I feel like
overshooting maybe. Am I overshooting?
But I I feel like 20 years seems
that's probably I think that's
reasonable. Why? What he get 30? Is 30
like the Is that it?
>> I'm just curious what you're you're
going to stick with 20?
>> I say 20. All right. I mean, but 30
wouldn't shock me.
>> Okay. So, 30 wouldn't shock you, but 20
is your guess.
>> Oh, well. Yeah. See, I have no idea, but
I I assume it's high. I I assume you're
higher than what? Yeah.
>> You think 22?
>> I think 22 is high, but I don't really
know.
>> No one was hurt.
>> Oh, stop. So, now it's too high.
>> I'm not saying that. I'm just I'm giving
you context because I don't feel like
you're committed to your 20-year guest.
>> I feel like you're dipping your toe in
the 20-year water and you want to
continue talking this out. The toying
with me is so [laughter]
it's not right.
>> It's a ratings grabber.
>> It's I think 20 years. That's what I
think.
>> All right, man. Well, I tried to help.
Uh, correct answer. 12 years.
>> 12 years. That's it. For blowing some
up.
>> Yeah, it was a crime. It was a money
crime, not a political crime.
>> It wasn't a money crime. It was He had a
He's doing pipe bombs.
>> He was doing it to steal the money. He
wasn't having a jihad against an ATM. I
don't it's I don't think you get to blow
things up or set things on fire. I think
there's some things that are like, "Hey,
that's
>> you know me, my man. I'm a hanging
judge,
>> right? But but I call it like it is. 12
years you lose." [laughter]
>> Like Tom's like, "Listen, Matt, it's up
to me. You'd still be in prison,
[laughter]
>> right? Nothing. This would be the Tom
Simon show. Colobby would be my humble
assistant." What do you know about UC
Berkeley, University of California,
Berkeley? What do you know about it?
What's What's your instinct? Like if
we're booing a an award association,
what would you say about it?
>> Um, liberals. Yes. Why? [laughter] Okay.
Bluehaired liberals. Why?
>> Yeah. No, you're right. It's it's a
hotbed of left-wing activism. Okay.
Right. That's kind of where I'm going
with this because I like to do at least
one culture war story so people fight in
the comments and it brings your numbers
up. I don't really care. I don't have a
dog in the fight of the culture war, but
we're going to What's weird about UC
Berkeley in for what I've never been
there, but my understanding is that it's
so part of the the left-wing kind of
activism is so part part of the culture
there that it doesn't even limit itself
to the college students. Like the entire
town of people who aren't even like
taking political science classes at
Berkeley or whatever are kind of like
hip deep in like the the the left-wing
activism. And that's exactly what it was
like for 34 year old Casey Goonan. He's
Goonan.
Uh he wasn't even a student at UC
Berkeley. I guess he was occasionally.
He took some classes here and there, but
uh but just a grown guy. Um like grown
man who's like really into kind of like
fighting the power, you know, right?
That that was his jam. And the way he
did it mostly was he he wrote zi.
[snorts]
You know what a zen is?
>> No. It's short for magazine, but it's
like a like a like if I was going to
like do my left-wing screed, I would
like write up the magazine like this and
fold it in half and then try to sell it
on the streets for like a buck a piece
so people can like see what I'm all
about, you know, see what I hate.
Fighting the man. I know. Yeah, these
people are the most annoying liberals in
the world. Um anyway, so he used to
write these Marxist screeds and try to
sell them on the streets, but he was so
fed up with doing this and what he
really wanted to do was spark a student
revolution where he would get these
college kids to kind of rise up in mass
against the man and fight the power once
and for all.
>> Right.
>> Yeah.
But the problem with college kids today,
I don't know if you have much
interaction with kids that age, is that
um that they're not super motivated
to do lots of stuff like that. Like they
like a sit in, they like a protest, they
may like a concert, they may like a drum
circle, but the idea of standing up and
like fighting to defeat the man, it for
most of them is a hard pill to swallow
because they're very filled with
anxiety, right? They can't even like go
out and like rent a car without taking
like a pile of Lexapro. and uh and
Zoloft. And so um but Casey had an idea,
Casey Goon, on how to inspire them. And
so what he does, he gets up early in the
morning and he has uh he makes three
Molotov cocktails
>> early in the morning, .
>> No, no, like before before and so he
drives to the US courthouse in Oakland
with three Molotov cocktails that he had
fashioned himself. These are the bottles
filled with gasoline with the with the
rag and you know what it is. And so, and
so he begins throwing rocks at the
courthouse to break a window to throw a
Molotov cocktail through. Here's the
problem.
>> Those those windows really don't break.
>> Well,
>> aren't they kind of
>> And my guess is Casey wasn't much of an
athlete growing up. [laughter]
So, I don't know that he was really good
at throwing much of anything. His dad
probably didn't take him outside for a
catch as a kid, which is probably part
of the problem. [snorts]
>> [laughter]
>> And so he keeps throwing these rocks at
the courthouse and missing like by a
country mile. Eventually the security
guards at the courthouse come out and
say, "Get the away from here." And
Casey like scurries off.
>> Casey,
>> he does the windmill.
>> He's frustrated, right? Cuz you know, he
never played little league as a kid. He
never really learned how to throw very
well. And so he puts the Molotov
cocktails in a planter like adjacent to
the building and he lights them on fire
and runs away. They do like no damage
whatsoever. Uh, you know, like the side
of the planter got like scalded
>> still.
>> Yeah. Not good. Not good. But he's he's
discouraged, Matt Cox, but he's not
broken, right? He's he's going to
somehow spark a revolution. And so he's
walking down the street back to his car
where he has six more Molotov cocktails
like waiting in the car. And what does
he see sitting there? A University of
California Police Department patrol car
just parked there on the street with no
one looking at it. No one around, not
even a cop inside. It's just parallel
parked there, kind of near his car. And
so what he does is he takes his six
Molotov cocktails, he places them under
the fuel tank, he lights it on fire,
gets in his car, and drives away. And in
the rear view mirror, he sees the
Molotov cocktails ignite the fuel tank.
And the entire police car goes up in
flames like a mushroom cloud,
>> right? He's finally finally struck it
out at the man just like he planned,
[laughter]
right? [snorts]
So, um,
>> that's when California broke off and
became its own country.
>> Yeah. The problem is it was, um, just
one burnt up cop car in a world with
lots of cop cars.
>> Not the revolution.
>> Lots of functioning ones. Yeah. And, uh,
but he and so he's a little disappointed
that this did not like spark the
revolution and the people didn't take to
the streets. Exactly. So, he hops on
social media and he writes a post
explaining what he did and why he did
it.
>> Of course. Um he said that the
firebombing was done in retaliation
against the police and the university to
spark a student into he called it. And
he ended his post with death to America.
But you know what he did Matt Cox? He
spelled America with three K's.
What? Okay.
>> And he also said glory to the martyrs.
>> Right. So this is a guy who
>> he's hitting all the boxes, right? He's
checking the boxes. Yeah. And uh but
with all of his planning, it failed to
create the student uprising he wanted
to. And then he realizes, "Oh my god, I
forgot to cover up the license plates on
my car." And they began looking around
who was driving around at like 4 in the
morning around the neighborhood there
and they get his license plates and um
and they see like pictures of him on
other cameras running around like a fool
lighting fires and trying to throw rocks
through the courthouse window. So, the
police, the ATF, and the FBI, they
execute a search warrant at his house,
just like they did for Jalal, the ATM
bomber, and they gather all the evidence
they need to show that he was making
Molotov cocktails there. Um, they place
him under arrest. Um, he actually uh was
interrogated by the FBI. A good FBI
interrogator did. And, um, and he
confessed to the FBI interrogator and
said that his intention was to create a
Gen Z uprising.
>> [laughter]
>> He pleads guilty to federal arson
charges with a terrorism sentencing
enhancement. You can't charge him with
terrorism because there's no such crime
as is domestic terrorism. But you can
have a a sentencing enhancement for
terrorism on top of an arson charge.
>> Um and so the judge needs to sentence
him. Keep in mind he was doing it for in
his mind all the right reasons.
>> I feel like the judge is going
[laughter] to take that into
consideration. I think I think I think
they did take it into consideration.
Therefore, you got the terrorist
enhancement.
>> How much time you going to give Casey
Goon? I
>> mean, I feel like 10 years. It's kind of
bothered me that you're going to say way
less than 10 years. But
>> 10 years, the terrorism enhancement.
This is a federal arson charge.
I'm just throwing it out there at you.
>> 12 years.
>> Well, this isn't an auction, pal. I need
you to make a decision. This ain't eBay.
>> Earn left when I was way too high. I was
way too high. But this does have an
enhancement. But the other guy got away
with 90,000. But he was just robbing
banks.
>> His intention was to overthrow the
>> He's a jackass.
>> He wanted the proletariat to rise up and
take control of the means of production.
I
>> think you're failing to understand the
worked so well.
>> Yeah. His aspirations. I mean, he's
coming from a good place.
>> He's an idiot. I feel like you get a
discount for being an idiot.
>> Casey Goon is a revolutionary.
I'll go with 12 years.
>> You haven't read his zenes. Some
beautiful. [laughter]
>> Um his zenes. The fact that you say that
he that anything is called a zen.
>> It's apostrophe z i n e.
[snorts]
>> Um what's 12 years? That seems
reasonable. 10 years seems he's an
idiot. He is bling stuff lighting stuff
on fire which I think is a 15 years. You
can't be lighting on fire. 15
years.
>> We're up to 15 now.
>> Yes. 15.
>> Man, if we keep talking, you're going to
give him a life sentence.
>> 15? No. [clears throat] 15.
>> I know the guy. I know.
>> Cox escalator.
>> 15. The guy. But he did. He got the
enhance. 15. That's good.
>> 15 years.
>> Did he plead guilty? He didn't go to
trial.
>> No, he plead guilty. He plead guilty.
Yeah, that's for sure.
>> See, now I want to give him a discount.
Now I want to go back to 12.
>> 15.
>> Which is it? I'm hearing lots of numbers
from me like this. It sounds like an
auction house.
>> 12 years. He did plead [laughter] 15 15
>> which is I'm not I'm not laughing at you
to force you to move one way or another.
I'm laughing at you because you're
having a nervous breakdown.
>> Uh I'm how bad I'm really losing bad
here. I can't even make this up. I can't
even come back at this point.
>> I think you need to treat every story as
its own little coin flip.
>> 13 years.
>> We're up to 13 now. Are you splitting
the difference? You're splitting the
>> Yes. Splitting the difference.
>> Say 13 and a half.
>> 13. [snorts]
>> 13. Yes.
>> Okay. Final answer. Mox. Okay, the
correct answer is 235 months, which is
19 years 7 months.
>> Wow. Even if I said 15, I wasn't even
close.
>> I think you missed it.
>> Yeah,
>> I think you missed it.
>> Yeah. What a what a jackass.
>> Yeah. Casey Goon
failed miserably to seize the means of
production. [laughter]
>> Oh god, what a She was What a
jerk off.
>> Mhm. You ever watch the show The Walking
Dead? I love The Walking Dead.
>> Yeah. You remember the Asian guy in that
Stevie?
>> I loved him. I was so disappointed when
he got killed.
>> Yeah, he got killed. He's my favorite.
My favorite character. Yeah.
>> Were you ever into the early music of
Kid Rock?
>> I love Kid Rock.
>> Do you remember his little hype man?
>> Oh, yeah. The little guy, the little um
Oh, I forget his name. He He would sing
>> Jo. Yeah.
>> Remember Joc? What do Joe C and Walking
Dead actor Steve Ewan have in common?
I I don't know. Steve Huan's way taller
than him. Um I don't know.
>> Height.
>> Joc also Joc died. Um whatever.
>> Oh yeah. No, he had he he had a like a
terminal disease of kind. Part of the
reason he was so short. He was such a
short.
>> Yeah. I thought he was I thought he
actually was a great hype man and added
a lot to kid rock shows.
>> Joe C and Walking Dead actor Steve Ewan
are both from the town of Taylor,
Michigan. Oh,
>> a suburb of Detroit with a population of
63,000.
Can you imagine that one town produced
two luminaries like that? It's amazing.
The town had a mayor named Rick Solars.
And it didn't take long before Mayor
Rick was accepting bribes.
We just did an episode.
>> We're getting there. We're getting
there. Um, we just did an episode before
sponsored by our friends at Home Title
Lock discussing different kind of real
estate fraud scams involving fraudulent
titles. This one could have actually
probably been in that the city had title
to 95 plots of land that had been
foreclosed upon u because they didn't
pay property taxes, right? Most of them
were probably vacant plots of land. And
um Mayor Rick had the authority to turn
those properties over to a real estate
developer of his choice in order to do
some whatever he could. It was his job
to kind of maximize the the value of
those foreclosed properties. He had
Mayor Rick had control of that. Okay.
>> And so what he does is he gives all
those plots of land to a real estate
developer named Shotti Aad. I think
spelled like Shady. We'll call him
Shady. [snorts] Shady AAD. Perfectly
legal under city rules to give this
stuff give it to him. The problem is
that Shady was also providing Mayor Rick
with bribes at the same time
>> in the form of home renovations, cash,
money for gambling, and appliances. He
had a smart refrigerator. Mayor Rick
did.
>> Probably the only one in the town, huh?
>> Yeah. Yeah. He and he also got a was
given a gift of a stove. A stove? I
guess that's an appliance. And a cigar
humidor. What's a cigar humidor? It's
like a box that you keep cigars in to
keep them fresh.
>> Keeps them nice.
>> There you go. You a cigar guy?
>> No.
>> Yeah. Me neither.
>> I have smoked a cigar before.
>> Yeah.
>> Once.
>> All right. Well, look.
>> Puked my gr my my guts out. Just puked
like you can't believe.
>> It's one way to get that monkey off your
back.
>> I'll never listen for years. If I even
smell smelled cigar smoke, I would feel
sick to my stomach.
>> Yeah. So, it was like an all you can eat
buffet for Mayor Rick, right? Shoddy is
just showering him with gifts and
appliances and stuff in exchange for
these like 95 plots of land. Uh FBI
catches wind of it, right? These are all
kind of public records. Like probably
some citizen dogooder was looking at
this and saying like, "Why are we all
giving it to this to Shady?" Um FBI does
a search warrant of Mayor Rick's house.
They find $200,000 cash stashed away
inside his house.
>> Wow. So, I'm assuming this isn't the
first bribe. This is a mayor of a small
town. Um the mayor initially denies the
charges. Um but then Shady pleads guilty
and agrees to cooperate.
>> Can't trust a guy. But what was he
thinking? Trusting a guy named Shady.
>> Well, you know, in for a dime in for a
dollar. He thought they would fight this
thing together.
>> Shady is going to hold up.
>> Yeah.
>> And so as soon as Shady decided to
cooperate, and remember first one in the
door off and gets the deal, um Mayor
Rick waves the white flag and pleads
guilty himself. Um, so the court found
that Mayor Rick received bribes from AAD
Shady totaling $85,000. That's all the
government could prove, right? They're
finding like $200,000 like wrapped in
towels in his house or whatever. But but
they can only really, you know, the
government has the burden of proof. They
can only prove that $85,000 worth of
stuff went from Shady to Mayor Rick.
Okay. Because the dollar amount is could
be significant.
Um, and so that's Oh, yeah. Both Mayor
Rick and Shady plead guilty. And uh so
what what how much what are you going to
sentence these guys to?
>> What do you What do you you know
>> again? First guy in the door gets the
deal. That's your big clue.
>> Yeah. Well, I mean Shady gets a deal,
right? Obviously.
>> Mhm. Um, so
I don't feel like he gets I feel like he
he probably gets
12 months, you know, and the the the
mayor probably gets four year, let's say
four years,
>> like 12 months and 48 months.
>> Okay, let me give you the good news. Uh,
Shady got one year and one day.
>> Yes.
>> So, you're right there. They do that, I
think, because there's a there's a
tactical reason why sometimes they do
one year in one day.
>> Yeah. You get the if it's over one year,
you you get your um gain time. So,
right, he only has to do eight months or
nine months,
>> but if it's Yeah. So, uh Mayor Rick, you
said 36 months. No,
>> did I say 36? I said 40
>> 48. Okay. I'm sorry. He got 71 months in
prison. So, you're you're wrong either
way.
>> Indeed.
>> Three of 10. Ooh.
>> And I have some I have someone doing
some research right now to find out the
the score for the entirety of the game
show. All 10 game shows
>> for for all the episodes we've done.
>> Yes.
>> Wow. A lifetime like batting average.
>> Yeah. Yeah. So we should have that by
the end,
>> right? We were we you and I had an
opportunity with young Colby to have
lunch today.
>> Yes.
>> Went to Five Guys and and uh your fans
will be thrilled to hear that you paid
for my lunch.
>> [laughter]
>> Yeah. Right. So, they seem very very
concerned about my financial stability
in the comments section of the fact that
you don't pay me anything.
>> Only because you mention it every time.
>> Did I Did I don't know if I mentioned
that or not. Um, of the episodes that
I've been on, which one this may be a
Colby question. Which one's doing the
best? Which one has it performed the
best?
>> I want to say it is the airplane
freakouts.
>> Okay, good.
>> Let's do an airplane freakout story.
Maybe we can capitalize on that magic
and catapult this this episode into
great success.
It was a clear day. Matt Cox Southwest
flight 3548
from Seattle to Sacramento. Not a very
long flight at all.
20-year-old Madison almost missed the
flight. She is hauling ass to get
through the airport to make the flight.
She gets there, she plops down her seat.
She's the last person to board way in
the back. Uh she but and the only seat
open was a middle seat, right? Because
that's how Southwest rolls. You don't
get an assigned seat. Um and she's in
the back between two dudes. Now, what
she didn't know is that her seatmate on
the aisle seat was 40-year-old Jeff
Lorenzo of Winters, California, and he
was very, very drunk. Okay, let's jump
back a little bit. Jeff was coming back
from a work trip and he was drunk before
he even got to the airport that day. And
he would continue drinking with his
buddies at the airport downing beers and
shots like it was his bachelor party or
something. And at the bar, the bar
inside the airport, he starts getting
rowdy and he starts like touching the
faces of like strange of strangers in
the bar and uh and he starts spitting on
the floor of the restaurant and uh and
using foul language, maybe even the
f-word at full volume, Matt Cox, right?
Making a total nuisance of himself. um
when he went through the TSA checkpoint,
probably before the bar, I don't know if
the bar was on on which side of security
it was, he gets searched by TSA and he
gets upset and starts yelling the n-word
at the TSA person who searched him. And
you know what N word I'm talking about.
We're not going to say it, but you know
what? It's a bad bad n word.
>> I'm surprised he got through T. I'm
surprised.
>> Of all of all the nwords, this is the
worst. Okay, I would never say it. I I
get weird even saying N. Um,
so he's so wasted that that you've
you've flown Southwest, right? It's like
group one, group two, everyone stands in
line. He keeps trying to board. He's
like he's like group six. Every group
that comes up, he's like trying to
stumble. Yeah. It's amazing. And so so
he finally gets bored go. He goes sits
in the back. Um, you know, and and while
he's sitting next to young Madison in
the middle, Southwest serves him two
more alcoholic beverages. [laughter]
the stock price needed some help. So,
poor Madison is trapped in the middle
seat and she can just smell the booze on
Jeff.
>> Mhm.
>> And then Jeff lifts the armrest between
he and Madison and he starts rubbing
her. [laughter]
>> God,
>> he's like stroking this like 20-year-old
girl who's not into it. You'll be
surprised to learn. And then he
intentionally drops his phone very
animatedly on the floor between her legs
and buries his face in her crotch to
recover his phone. This is all bad.
>> No bueno. Um and uh and then Madison is
scared, super uncomfortable. Jeff
reaches across to like tap the shoulder
of the dude sitting in the window and
begins like rubbing his forearm against
her breasts, you know, through the
clothing and all that, but just not
cool. uh for 20 seconds in the
courtroom.
>> What is What is this chick doing? What
is she so doing? Just
>> she's going out of She's a kid. She's 20
years old. She's scared to death.
>> I would think she
>> I get it. I get it.
>> Yell or something.
>> I mean, okay. Flight attendant call
button. She hits it. The flight
attendant comes,
>> separates him and all that. Calls it in.
He gets arrested at the airport. Right.
>> Sounds good.
>> FBI goes back, kind of retraces their
steps. Uh you know, they want to you
look at the security footage and we're
this nword that. He's at the bar. He's
drunk.
>> Drinking drinking,
>> spitting on the floor. He's touching
people's faces. Like, they build the
whole case up.
>> Um, he gets charged with assault aboard
an aircraft
>> and he pleads guilty
and says that he wants to get substance
abuse treatment, which I think is
probably a good idea. How much time is
the judge going to give
>> this fellow Jeff Lorenzo of Winters,
California?
>> 36 months.
36 months in prison. Three years for the
horror show that this poor girl had to
endure and the coupled with the bad
behavior
>> charged with
>> um
assault aboard an aircraft.
>> I'm guessing less
>> really.
Remember those airplane episodes we did
where those guys that were just doing
all that weird stuff barely got
anything?
Remember
>> I remember. [laughter]
>> Why are you looking at me? Okay. Did you
look something up?
>> I haven't looked anything up. Yeah, I
haven't [laughter]
>> turns the
turns the laptop slowly and it's in big.
It says 12 months. No, I think uh 36
months. I think then he'll get he'll be
able to go to art app.
>> If he gets 36 months and I think he'll
get a year off. He'll do a year and a
half. He'll be nine months in our app,
nine months waiting to I think. So that
would be a just outcome in your mind.
>> Um
yeah, I think 36 months seems seems
reasonable. He's a a douchebag. Uh
>> but you know, he he they that that they
tend to give you a little leeway if you
you throw in I was intoxicated. I was
drunk. Your honor, my my my father had
just died. It was his birthday.
Come up some
>> You probably got a drinking problem.
You're very sympathetic to people who
have substance abuse issues when it
comes to sentencing. So,
>> I mean, maybe 48 months, but let's say
let's say whatever. Let's say 36, cuz
I'm sure I'm wrong. I've been wrong all
this whole time. I
>> wish she would have more confidence.
>> I don't cuz I feel like you're tricking
me. I'm
>> not tricking anything. I'm telling you a
crime story, a riveting crime story, and
you get to make your guesses. So, you
said 36 months. The correct answer is 30
days in prison. What
the is that's some that
I'm sure the 20-year-old uh felt now
she's been violated a second time.
>> 30 are you so like
>> cold's right. These crimes aboard
aircraft are the the sentences are
insanely low.
jerkoffs. I mean that's just
some Okay,
>> I know. I know.
>> Why?
>> That's the place to do it. Mhm.
>> I'll tell you what, we we we interview
or uh I interviewed a um a skyjacker.
>> Uh yeah. Yeah.
>> Wow.
>> No, I don't mean skyjacker like the
story you told. I mean [laughter]
>> you're funny. Um
>> that's why you show
>> I I interviewed him and they didn't give
him any break. What did he He
>> He was like he had multiple life
sentences.
>> He had like life multiple. He eventually
got him down. He still did like 40 was
he 30 something.
>> 82 years old or something. Yeah, like 40
years or something.
>> The heyday of skyjacking, huh?
>> Yeah,
>> it was in 1971 is when he had done it.
But yeah.
>> Are you comfortable with the audience
knowing that you live in Wesley Chapel,
Florida? [laughter]
>> I guess so.
>> Uh,
>> or is that something we try to keep
under our house?
>> No, that's fine.
>> Okay. It's it's a sizable suburb. No, I
don't think anyone's going to show up at
your house and do anything horrible to
you.
>> Um, Wesley Chapel, big crime town. I
don't think so. But my wife told me the
other day that there was she had said
something like there was like a
carjacking or something in Wesley
Chapel, something like that. And she was
like, "Can you believe?" She's like,
"This place is going to hell." I
thought, "It's one. It's one
carjacking."
>> Yeah. I've been your house like nine
times and I thought Wesley Chapel looked
really nice. I I stayed in hotels there.
We went to a comedy club there, right?
>> Oh, yeah. Yeah, it was. Yeah.
>> Yeah. Um Yeah, it was a uh Yeah, I think
it's very nice. It's like living in the
tri say it's like living in the Truman
show.
>> I thought so too. I thought so too. This
crime takes place in Wesley Chapel.
>> I know. I know. There goes the
neighborhood. The carjacking and then
this
59year-old Ping Lee was born in China.
>> That should be in the in the in the
hook.
>> I didn't name him. Uh and immigrated to
the USA as a young man.
>> Do you think he'd insist that people say
ping ping? [laughter]
>> Actually, so ping. No, it's not.
>> Bingley
was born in China and immigrated to the
USA as a young man. He became a
naturalized US citizen. He's one of us.
>> Good for him.
>> And worked in cyber security for 20
years for Verizon while living in Wesley
Chapel, Florida. Can you believe it?
>> Feel like he's This is some espionage or
something, right? What do you What do
you really get from from Verizon? But
anyway,
>> yeah. No, he's not working at the
Verizon store. He's a cyber security
guy. I'm probably working from home. I
don't know if there's a Verizon like
data center in Wesley Chapel or
whatever. Who knows? Um, here's what's
funny. He was contacted out of the blue
by a friend he knew as a teenager back
in China. Huh.
>> Is that crazy? His friend was a spy now
for China's milit Ministry of State
Security. And he recruited Ping to be
what they call a cooperative contact,
secretly gathering intelligence for the
Chinese as directed by his high school
buddy. Is that crazy?
>> That's crazy.
>> Yeah. His handler, the guy, his buddy
from high school back, you know, when
they were 12 or whatever, um, asked him
to gather information about Chinese
dissident, Chinese people here in the US
who don't like China and very outspoken,
>> and transmit that information back to
China. that China's really hung up on
that like the Fallon Gong people and and
stuff like that about people who are
here kind of opposing human rights
abuses in China. They like keeping their
finger on the pulse of that.
>> Yeah. Don't they like like kidnapping
them too and trying to get them back to
China?
>> It's like a big deal. It's a
preoccupation of theirs. Yeah.
>> Um more kind of interesting to me is
that they also direct Ping to steal and
provide information from Verizon
pertaining to cyber security measures.
So the Chinese intelligence services can
breach the firewalls established that to
keep our phone communications private.
They wanted to be able to hack into
Verizon phones and Ping was more than
happy to kind of give them the keys to
make that happen.
>> Are they paying Ping?
>> Um
>> you don't just do this because you have
a childhood friend. I don't even think
it's a childhood friend.
>> Yeah, they're paying him something.
They're paying him something. I don't
have the dollar amount actually.
>> I I mean even my childhood friend, like
if Shane Snipes, who was a childhood
friends of mine, showed up, first of
all, we don't even know it is Shane. We
don't even know.
>> It could be some guy. I mean, it's not
like he showed up at his house. He
probably
>> One thing I do know is that they don't
pay. When we start discussing the show,
they don't pay much. They don't pay
much. Yeah. Um, so I'm sure Ping is
getting paid something. I don't have
that information. It never came out in
the case.
>> Um,
>> so the FBI monitors communications
between Chinese intelligence and US
citizens pretty regularly, right? Um,
and you know, it's not they do.
>> Yeah. It's so intrusive. And uh, and
they become aware of Ping's clandestine
activities. They begin monitoring Ping's
communications further and they finally
arrest him for acting as an unregistered
agent of the Chinese government. Like
you said, espionage right under your
nose in Wesley Chapel. Right under your
nose. You could have been behind this
guy in line at the Publix.
>> I feel like we yank his citizenship. Let
him go back to China. He likes it so
much.
>> Can't do that. But during his
interrogation, Ping lied his ass off. It
wasn't until the FBI agent showed him
printed copies of encrypted emails that
he had sent to his handlers that he
broke down and confessed to the spying
activities. They broke him. He said he
said, and this is actually interesting,
that the reason he did it because he
felt that if he did not cooperate, his
mother back in China would be harmed.
>> Okay. Yeah, I can see them using that.
>> Yeah. Yeah. He pleads guilty and at his
sentencing, Ping says,
"I'm gonna read the quote, but I'm not
going to do it with an accent." [snorts]
>> Well, I loved your your [laughter]
whatever what was the weirdo the the
>> Oh, yeah.
>> Yeah. This the accent would be a little
ethnic, and I think that might get us
both in trouble.
>> He said, "Looking back now." [laughter]
>> You just said you weren't going to do
it.
>> I'M NOT DOING A CHINESE ACCENT. I refuse
to do a Chinese accent, but
>> what is this accent?
>> It's very sophisticated. Maybe a Hong
Kong. Looking back now, I realize how
stupid and ignorant I was. I regret what
I have done. I am deeply sorry to this
country that I love.
>> That's what Ping said.
>> Good for him.
>> How much time are you going to give
Ping?
>> God, what did these guys get? Did he
didn't really give him anything, right?
>> Uh, he gave him he was again he was
keeping an eye on Chinese dissident. I
don't know what that really entailed.
I'm a little unclear how much of the
Verizon cyber security stuff slipped,
but here's what I do know is that
Verizon was able to patch it back up.
So, you're safe. I mean, you're you're
rather you're no you're no worse off
with a Verizon phone than you were
before Ping's uh venture into spying.
>> I don't know. 60 months.
>> 60 months. Five years is what you say.
>> Yeah.
>> For betraying his country. [laughter]
But you stop.
>> Yes. 60 months.
>> 60 months for spying for the Chinese
government is what you're saying.
>> I just want to make sure we're on the
same thing. He didn't What did he really
have? He didn't I mean it's
>> He was a cyber security guy in Oh, this
is like a Wesley Chapel thing, isn't it?
You guys are It's like an affinity
thing. Like, huh? You Wesley Chapel guys
stick together. 60 months is what you're
saying with
>> Wonder if he still lives in Wesley
Chapel. I can look him up. I can look
him up. over here. Get him on the show.
>> Yeah, you can't can't deport him.
>> The AI overview says he was not paid by
China.
>> Interesting. Okay. Thank you. I did not
know that, but I know it wasn't in the
court documents cuz I reviewed them, but
I didn't know if that was being
withheld.
>> I want to give him another 12 months for
stupidity. I'm going to get I need
something. I need to get something for
this.
>> He did it because his high school buddy
wanted him to and he claimed that his
mother was he felt his mother was in
danger. Although I don't
>> You loved his mom so much. What' you
What' you flee China for and come here?
>> A better life,
>> right? I mean, you know,
>> mom's had a good life.
>> I get it. Listen, you're the one getting
him off at 5 years.
>> Five years. I don't Listen, I don't
believe you. [laughter]
>> All right. All right. All right. Uh, the
correct answer is four years in prison.
And so, you're within 20%.
>> I am. That's 20%.
>> No, you're not.
>> Oh, wait. Wait. No, that's 25%, isn't
it?
>> Yeah. Yeah. 48 times 1.2 [clears throat]
2 is under. So 48.
>> Wait, what do you mean? Wait, wait,
wait, wait, wait. What? What is
>> the sentencing is
>> what is 20% of of of
5 years?
>> No, no, no, no. You're misunderstanding.
It keys off of the four years. So what
is what is 1.2 times uh
>> 48 is 57.6.
>> Let's see. Once we get the This is what
we're going to do. Once we get the
annual numbers, we're going to adjust
it. We're going to adjust the meter for
2026.
>> Oh, I see. So, so Matt only has to get
one out of 12.
>> Well, yeah. [laughter]
>> This is hard evidently.
>> Well, well, like I said, the the top
comment on the last episode was they
want to see for a special episode, the
roles reversed. So, with all these
classic stories
and Matt's going to do show prep.
>> Oh, he Yeah, he doesn't have to be. I
don't have to. I already told these
stories [laughter] 20 times.
>> All right. All right. Fair enough. Yeah,
I'll play that game with I'll play any
game you want. I love the show. I could
even do people we've interviewed because
it's not like you watched the show
unless you're on it.
>> We should warn the people that the next
three stories are insanely depraved for
various reasons. But if you are not into
really dark and depraved crime, maybe
it's time to say goodbye. Okay, I'm just
warning people. This is like the trigger
warning. I got you know what's so funny
is like on the analytics you can tell
when people when people watch more of an
episode and less and when they drop off
I have a feeling that they hit that your
comment right there and it's going to
shoot up and then woo they keep
watching.
>> My conscience is clear. I don't want
someone driving around in their car with
their kid listening to this next three
stories and uh and coming at me or you
in the comments. They've been warned.
Yeah.
>> Okay. Right. You take your medicine
>> coming at you.
Uh,
>> you had me at depraved. Go ahead.
>> Use AI much like chat GPT and stuff.
What do you use it for?
>> Um, I use it to write uh anything that I
don't want to write. Like I'll just tell
it, you know, hey, write me a short, you
know, whatever. Anything I don't want to
have to write a thank you note or or I
send uh Christmas cards. I send uh I
send uh what what postcards and I don't
want to write the postcard. So, I just
it writes up just silly stuff.
>> Yeah. AI documentaries coming soon.
You'll see.
>> Yeah, those are those look sharp. I've
seen some of the kind of prototypes of
those that you're doing. Those are
sharp. The the sort of recreation videos
that you're doing where you take a story
and then you kind of animate it with AI
people doing stuff.
>> Have you What you
>> You've seen the shorts. You've seen the
shorts. Yeah. Yeah. We're going to be
some long form.
>> Oh, we're doing it with like a whole
episode.
>> Oh, that'd be cool. Yeah, that will be
cool.
>> Um, all right. So, we got 47year-old
Jerome Weber of Topeka, Kansas. You ever
been to Topeka?
I've been to Topeka.
>> Have you? [laughter]
>> Not my not my thing. That was fine. Nice
people.
>> Yeah.
>> Big people. Big bones. [snorts] Um
>> a lot of SNAP benefits.
>> Yeah. Jer Jeremy Weber, he took photos
of children that he knew. I don't know
how he knew them, but let's say he had
access to pictures of kids from Facebook
or whatever, kids that he knew. and he
uploads these pictures to an AI photo
editor program on the internet.
>> Then he also uploads
naked pictures of kids being abused.
We can be kind of obtuse about this so
we don't get banned that he had
previously downloaded from the internet.
And he wants them to do a face merge. So
the dirty pictures of the kids being
abused has now the head and faces of
children that he knows personally.
>> He's creating his own bespoke adult
content with with exploited children.
Yeah.
>> Right. Children who were never
exploited, but now there's a picture of
kind of his niece, his next door
neighbor, his kids' friend or whatever
being exploited. Okay.
>> Okay. Not a good not a not, you know,
weird kink, but using AI.
Um,
>> I wonder if he's doing it because he
feels like that's getting around
breaking the law or something like this.
Or just maybe it's because it's got he's
got a weird
>> uh fascination with these kids that he
knows and he's trying like this is
>> Yeah. He's got this sick hobby, right,
for whatever reason. and uh and he keeps
it kind of secret, but he he's got one
of these remote jobs where he works from
home on his computer
>> and the I and the IT guy who's also
remote has to like remote into his
computer to install some software or
whatever
>> and then he sees a folder there. Um and
and the photo the folder was called AI
swap. The IT guy for the company that he
works for kind of double clicks on that.
There's a bunch of subfolders with
people's names. He double clicks on
those and sees these pictures,
>> right?
>> He tells the company's HR department or
whatever who contact the FBI and the FBI
comes in and does a search warrant. They
find um they find the uh you know the
they do the search warrant, they find
they get the computer, they see this um
how many pictures were there? There was
a lot. um 60 photos they find uh that of
uh of little children in being abused in
you know pictures of kids who were not
truly being abused because they were the
faces of other kids. So basically an AI
child
exploitation case.
>> Um he pleads guilty uh to possession and
transportation of child sex abuse
materials.
And at his sentencing, the prosecutor
made the point that Jeremy's action
should should remind us that we are all
vulnerable to this type of violation.
And although the images were fake, the
violation he inflicted upon the victims
was very real. That was the prosecutor's
speech at the sentencing.
What how much time you give a weirdo
like Jeremy.
>> So he just kept the pictures. He wasn't
extorting anybody. He didn't
>> I think he was enjoying them for his own
pleasure. This was his thing.
Um,
I want to say 36 months. I think the
mandatory minimum for photos. And if you
plead guilty, they probably dropped it
down to like one count. Even though
you're saying it's 60 of them, they
probably
>> 60 pictures.
>> Yeah, they probably dropped it down to
one count and he plead guilty.
>> Okay.
>> So,
>> I'm going to help you out here because
you're doing so poorly.
>> Okay. [laughter]
Remember, [clears throat] he is actually
downloading pictures of child abuse
materials
to create these bespoke pictures.
>> Okay.
>> Right. So, I think you and I when I
heard first heard the story, you're
getting hung up on the idea that well,
no one is really harmed. The pictures
are fake. But he's actually doing just
what everyone else does who downloads
child exploitation materials and is
caught with them on their computers.
>> Yeah. which is like just possession.
Right.
>> Right. I don't believe Let me I don't
see anything in here.
>> That's why I was thinking possession.
>> Uh I I have no information that he
shared these things anywhere.
That was not part of the case. No. Well,
he Okay. He he was charged with
possession and transportation of child
abuse materials, but the transportation
may have simply been the downloading of
it in from some some some server out
there in the un in the internet into his
home. I have no information that he was
going on the web and trading it. That
was not part of any of the court
documents that I reviewed in this case.
I feel like, okay, let's say I I mean, I
guess I'm going to add some time because
I feel like possession, like a lot of
these guys that with the possession they
get like three years. It's kind of like
a mandatory, like a minimum mandatory,
which is like, oh, you have possession
and then these guys would end up going
to prison. They get like three years,
which is always
>> ridiculous to me.
Um, but they, you know, it was a big,
there was a big difference between that
and somebody who accidentally physically
got their hands on a kid 20 years.
>> Oh, for sure. Let's agree with that.
That that that like whatever he's doing
is not as bad as him actually grabbing a
child and and and abusing them
personally. But what do you think of the
what do you think of the prosecutor's
argument though that he truly is
victimizing these 60 children or however
many kids there were the real life kids
whose faces are now exist out there in
the universe on child exploitation
material.
>> Well, I didn't think I thought that he
was just keeping them on his computer.
So, I don't really feel like they went
anywhere.
>> We don't know. But still, you're a
parent. I'm a parent. I would be very
disturbed if if there was a dude out
there making child materials out of my
with my kid's face on it, whether he's
shooting it out at a football game with
a t-shirt gun or enjoying it for his own
jerkoff session.
>> Well, I mean I I I hear what you're
saying, but I mean I think there's two
different things. Like if I as a as a
parent, if I found that out, like I'd
have him publicly executed. Yeah.
>> But
>> uh that's not that's not the judge or
the prosecutor's job. I'm thinking about
these guys that were in prison with me
and they'd have three years, four years,
five and you know, you would always be
like, "Fuck, like this guy had like" and
they would have like
>> movies. Yeah.
>> Videos like they're weirdos.
>> Oh, sure.
>> And I mean, I knew
>> I knew a uh there was a guy at Coleman
who was a public school. Well, there
were several teachers.
>> Yeah.
>> But this was a guy who was a um he was a
principal.
of a of a school and he got
did he get like four or five but one he
was sub he he was and I'm I don't know
if you've ever heard this one
>> there was a guy who had been
doing things to his own daughter since
the age of like seven or eight and this
has been going on for five or six years
she's like 12 or 13 I could be get the
numbers are wrong but it was an
outrageous amount of time and there were
guys that were paying like $300 a month
at as a subscriber of a channel and
eventually one of these guys gets caught
and and cooperates and explains like he
gets caught for something else and then
he says listen I got something for you.
I'm subscribed to a channel. I don't
know how many other people, but this guy
is doing this and as a result of that
and they busted like we're talking about
like 60 or 80 guys that are all paying
300 bucks a month to and this has been
going on for years.
>> Wow.
>> You could look it up. I I mean I'm I I'm
pretty sure
>> I want to say it was this kid was young
and this and it wasn't like 6 months.
This went on for years.
>> This is his own flesh and blood.
>> Absolutely. Well, I'm pretty sure it
was. Yeah.
>> Horrific.
>> Yeah. this the and so multiple guys are
coming in there.
>> How much time they got get?
>> They didn't get any time. They got five
years, six years like that and it's like
and this is a school teacher. That's why
I'm thinking so I'm going to say five
years.
>> This is the first AI case that I've ever
heard of, right?
>> But stay tuned. I mean, this is going to
be the future, right? Yeah. Yeah.
>> So, what what's your guess then? Let's
lock you in on this.
>> Well, I was going to say the other thing
is you know what they'll they're doing
too now? They'll take an 18-year-old
that looks young and then they'll
they'll make them look younger and and
come up with a photo. So, now you think
it's a 12-year-old girl. It's really an
18y old,
>> but but the guys think, "Oh, what? I'm
I'm Yeah, but that that I'm not breaking
the law." It doesn't You know what the
actual law says?
>> Any image of like It doesn't matter if
it if it looks that way.
>> You bring in a bring in a pediatrician
and say, "This is the body of a
12-year-old as your expert witness."
>> Yeah, that's it. You're done. Doesn't
matter if you can explain, "No, no, she
was 18. I don't give a shit." Yeah. And
and first of all, and explain that in
front of a jury. If I was on the jury,
I'd be like, "I don't give a You
sicko. I don't want you living
in my neighborhood."
>> Bingo. Exactly. But yeah,
>> let's say five years.
>> Five years. All right, man. Well, I
don't want to belver this because it's I
find this topic so unsettling, but I do
think it's interesting from a
technological discussion like we've been
having. He got 25 years in prison.
>> Holy
>> Did I tell you? Yeah. Remember the
German? I told you about the German guy
who got 20 years.
>> Okay. Yeah.
>> I tell you about this guy. This is a
German who's in Germany.
>> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You told me about
that guy. And he he like fought it.
>> God, no. Got on a plane and flew here.
>> Mhm.
>> He got 20 years.
>> Yeah.
>> You know what I'm saying? like and and
this guy didn't they take took some
pitch. Oo boy. I feel like he plead
guilty to that.
>> Yeah.
>> Might as well go to trial.
>> Yeah. Really? At that point, why not? I
mean, again, the
>> I was explaining to our mutual friend
today whose show I did, Bubble the Love
Sponge, that uh that the that the plea
bargains don't have a sentence attached
to it. The judge always gets to make the
sentence. The government will say,
"Well, I'm recommending that you go by
the guidelines." And uh but with the
guidelines on stuff like this, there's
just a lot of latitude that the judges
have.
>> Well, and the judge can it's what is it?
Uh it's kind kind of like extenduating
circumstance. I forget what they call
it, but relevant conduct or something
like that where they're like, you know,
>> you know,
>> I think that the 60 kids, if it was 60,
whose faces were now attached to these
images,
>> um that's probably what drove the judge
that that we have 60 victims here,
whether they were abused or not. Now,
this this is the abuse of them, the
creation of these photos.
>> Yeah. The the guy I was going to say he
probably walked in there thinking he his
his precence report may have said five
years. It may have said three years. He
walked in three and the judge sat there
and the US attorney probably made a a
passion argument and and
>> I'm the agent. I get at least five or
six of those parents there who knew him
to come and testify about how violated
they feel and then this in their victim
w victim impact statements. Yeah.
>> Judge says 25 years.
>> So they Yeah. So, let's say like the
criminal is is pleading guilty. He's
like on his pre-sentence, he's pleading
guilty to what he thinks. Like he thinks
he's going in there for a fiveyear
sentence and then the judge can just be
like
>> Yes, that's exactly right. But they make
it very and they explain this over and
over again. Look, we're like like they
don't say
>> this is what they they say this is what
we're going to recommend, but they they
have you sign paperwork that says but
the judge can do whatever he wants. like
they're supposed to kind of here's what
happens if they stay within the range.
They have a range like they're like
we're going to we're going to suggest
that you get the low end of the
guideline and the guidelines say that
you're supposed to do the low end is 36
months. The high end of that same that
range might be 51. So between 36 and 51
months. So your lawyer, your public
defender is going to say, "Listen, he we
we know he can't really go above 51
months."
And so you're in within the range. So
either one of those should be okay, but
they're going to recommend 36 months.
Okay, fine. So you go in, the parents
talk, the US attorney talks, the judge
looks at it, and the judge says 25
years. And as a defendant, you're like,
"What are you?" You go to your lawyer
and say, "What are you talking about?"
they, you know, you said I couldn't go
above 51 months. And they're like, you
know, he's not supposed to be able to do
that. He's not supposed to. He can do
whatever he wants. But what all that
does is by going above the range, it now
gives the defendant the right to appeal.
>> It does. Yeah.
>> So I He can now appeal it.
>> Mhm.
>> They they've sort of defanged a lot of
that though and the Supreme Court came
back down and said that the sentencing
guidelines are now advisory.
>> Correct. But he'll still have an option
to appeal it and he can make that
impassionate argument that your honor I
would have never plead guilty and it and
maybe at some point they start negotiate
because now it becomes kind of
procedural that it becomes um uh it
starts to be fought in the court right
and you're not really going in front of
the judge. just more like they're
fighting and maybe at some point he
agrees to take 15 years because he
starts to get scared and realize I may
do 25 years or more likely
>> he appeals it and the appellet court
says go yourself.
>> Yeah.
>> Why? You know because you're a you're a
weirdo, right? Um and we really don't
care and you're and we don't want you to
come back in the community and we don't
care.
>> This is not a guy you want to go to the
mat for,
>> right? And then so then he appeals that
and then he then he eventually tries to
go to the Supreme Court. Supreme Court
says, "Yeah, we're not going to hear
your case." And you're just done. And I
mean, you're done and you're like,
"Okay." Then you file a 2255 and then
you start down that process and once
again they're like, "Yeah, I don't
care." Like these guys who fight their
cases
um that have these types of crimes like
like they you not that they deserve a
break, but they in the court they never
get a break. Like it like they just
smack them down. Smack them down. You
feel like it just gives them something
to live for in prison to occupy their
time.
>> Well, I've said this before. Hope is
what gets you through.
>> And you want to know what's so funny
about that? Listen to this. I heard
this. This is going on TikTok right now.
>> Yeah.
>> You probably heard this um uh before,
but I when I heard it, I was just like
blown away. Um and I'm probably going to
get the the numbers wrong, okay? But
>> there was an experiment where they took
like a hundred mice. Have you ever heard
this? Mhm.
>> And they would put the mice in a in a
glass of water and it would swim and try
and stay up
>> like doggy paddling and treading water.
>> Treading water. Right. So they're
treading water. On average, I think the
average that the mice would tread water
was like 30 minutes and then they drown.
>> Mhm.
>> So then they took a 100 mice, probably
not 100, probably 50, but whatever. It
was a lot. It was an experiment. They're
mice. They're cheap. So there just
before and they knew from doing the
hundred they now know that almost on
average almost all these things
drowned at 30 minutes.
>> Mhm.
>> So just about just as they were about to
drown they would take them out of the
water.
>> Okay.
>> Let them recuperate couple days late. So
a couple days later they would take the
mice and stick them back in the water.
>> I see what they're doing.
>> How long do you think they afterwards?
How long do you think that they could
>> acclimating them to the idea that you
keep swimming because eventually the
hand of God is going to come and pull
you out and save your life?
>> Hope,
>> right? So, I have no idea what the what
the order of magnitude is, but I bet
it's substantial.
>> It's amaz It was it it was it
was like 26 hours or something. It was
like so over You could probably check is
probably but it's not like 2 hours. It
was outrageously long. It was like
>> even thinking about that that experiment
disturbs me. makes [snorts] me feel sick
and a little sick. But I was just like
the idea of and I you know I used to
always say hope is what gets you through
like and guys would
>> because Pete would always say you know
hope isn't a strategy and I was like
yeah but but hope will get you through
it.
>> Yeah.
>> And and that's really in the Are you
looking it up?
>> How long was it?
>> U in the second let's see in the second
trial I'm trying to find out how how
quickly they drowned the first time. Um
record how long they swam the result. um
second trial
in some cases um it says okay so the
results from the first trial some rats
swam for days others gave up quickly
>> wow
>> um but that's not what I heard the the
second one they swam much longer in some
cases for up to 60 hours
>> wow
>> so that's over you know over two days
>> so the ones I've heard on Tik Tok which
is accurate always. Um, it was like it
was like 30 like around 30 minutes or
>> Yeah. And here and here's a and here's a
a video that's playing right now.
>> Need to see pictures of
>> No, they don't show.
>> It says after 15 minutes it's showing
after 15 minutes they pass. So yeah.
Yeah. So I've heard different videos cuz
once I saw it once I was like cut the
So I looked up a few of them and I
felt like on average it was like 30
minutes and then the next one was like
26 hours. Like that's insane. Like but
that's hope that will Yeah. that, you
know, how do people how do people with
these terminal illnesses and that are
constantly in pain survive? I mean, I
think they keep thinking there'll be a
medication. Uh the this drug will help,
that drug will help. They It's that that
hope that gets them through. And I think
that that's what happens with with any
inmate that goes to prison
>> is that they a lot of them will file
paperwork in the hope that something
will get through and we'll release
>> little lottery tickets,
>> right? Instead of kicking back and
saying, "Yeah, I'll do my 45 uh years."
They're like, "No, they can't."
>> Right. Interesting. So, you grew up a
Catholic kid, right? Just like I did.
You ever go to religious retreats when
you were a Catholic kid?
>> Um, were you going to like sleep away
for a few days?
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>> And there's like a
>> Yes.
>> Your parents must have been pretty happy
that that was your thing and you were
going away to a religious retreat and
not like hanging out in the streets with
switchblades and stuff like that, right?
>> [laughter]
>> I don't know if they were h I mean I
wasn't it wasn't like I was hanging out.
I was forced to go.
>> Oh yeah. [laughter] The tip of a sword.
It was their idea. You were begging to
go.
>> Mom, I can't wait. When can I go to CCD
again? You know that's what they call
it. CCD. Yeah.
>> And No, it was more like you're going to
CCD.
>> Got it. Let's go to Dilly, Texas. Dilly,
Texas. Doesn't that sound like a nice
town?
>> Uh 15year-old Sarah. Her mom was
thrilled when Sarah told mom that she
had been chosen to go to an
allincclusive
Christian youth retreat in Florida.
Wow. Mom's like, "What luck. We're not
wealthy people, but this is
all-inclusive." Yeah, all inclusive,
Mom. It's a retreat. And um and this was
going to be Sarah's first airplane ride.
And so she had a friend drive her to the
airport.
>> Feel like this is a lot of firsts for
Sarah. Yeah, it was a big deal. It was
15-year-old Sarah from Dilly, Texas. She
had a friend drive her to the airport
for this flight to Fort Myers, Florida.
And uh what Sarah's mom did not know,
Matt Cox, here's a twist, is that there
was no Christian retreat.
Sarah was actually going to a vacation
rental in Fort Meyers, Florida to meet
up with a guy, 42-year-old Vinnie
Robustto.
How's this even is the girl in on it?
Like I thought you were going to say
that the CCD that the church
>> No, they they had a teacher. They No,
they met. No, no, there's no there's no
religious retreat at all. Vinnie
Robustto meets this girl, 42-year-old
Vinnie Robustto meets 15-year-old Sarah
>> online Snapchat. Yeah.
>> And they begin engaging in a longdistant
sexual relationship online. He lives in
Decar, Georgia. So, this is going to be
a vacation for both of them. He goes on
whatever Airbnb, VBO, whatever. It's a
vacation rental in uh in Fort Myers for
them to spend quality time. And they
bake this scheme up where you're going
to tell your mom you're going to a
religious retreat and she's going to be
so thrilled. And it's all inclusive. So
mom doesn't even In fact, don't even
have mom drive you to the airport. Have
your friend do it. And so uh they um
yeah, so they so Vinnie paid for her
plane ticket, right? Called her up and
you know got all the information and all
that. First time riding a plane. And uh
six days into the retreat, Sarah's mom
was having trouble reaching Sarah.
>> What's going on, Sarah? You think you
would reach out for me? She starts
getting that feeling in her chest that
maybe something's not right. And so
Sarah's mom checks her parental tracking
app. A lot of us parents have an app on
their kids' phones to see where they
are. Life 360 is a good one. Um, and
they see that she's at a house in
Florida in Fort Myers, Florida, and not
at like a religious retreat building.
Something's wrong. So, mom calls the
local police in Dilly, Texas, who calls
the police in Florida, who goes to the
vacation house to check it out, see
what's going on here. And they see
Vinnie's car sitting in the driveway
with North Carolina plates. They run his
criminal history, and they see that
Vinnie has a long wrap sheet. Vinnie's
no angel for theft, weapons charges,
assault, aggravated battery. Vinnie's
not a good dude. Cops knock on the door.
[music]
Vinnie refuses to answer.
The police are able to find Vinnie's
phone number and they call him on the
cell phone. Vinnie's like, "Hello."
They're like, "Vinnie, open the door.
We're outside. It's the police." And uh
and so they go in the house and they
start looking around for Sarah. He's
like, "Sarah who?" And uh and they um
and she the police find Sarah in the
house, of course. And Sarah's story is
that when the cops first knocked, she
had been trying to open the door and
Vinnie restrained her and ordered her to
stay quiet. You be quiet, Sarah, Vinnie
said. And um and then she tells the
police separate her and they interview
her and she goes, "I arrived in Florida.
We get to the house. Vinnie gives me a
vape pen and tells me to smoke. Then
things start getting really hazy and uh
and I get and and I'm kind of like out
of my mind. And Vinnie had intercourse
with me and uh several times over the
past six days. And so the police
administer a kit, you know what kind of
kit I'm talking about, to confirm that
she had been assaulted by Vinnie in that
way. and the search of the uh they
search the vacation rental and they find
that Vinnie has a loaded 9mm pistol
which is a no no because he's a
convicted felon and they placed Vinnie
under arrest because of the interstate
nature of the case. The police who did a
great job uh loop in the FBI to kind of
nail down all the digital evidence that
kind of created the situation. The FBI
is real good at that. The police less so
>> and um and bring federal charges against
him. A victim specialist from the FBI
gets Sarah home to her mom. Hopefully,
she's getting the help she needs.
Terrible situation. Vinnie takes the
case to trial.
Well, with charges of interstate
transportation of a minor for sexual
activity and being a felon in possession
of a firearm,
his defense at trial, and this is
interesting, you can almost think this
through because I know you're a
traveling ma'am, is that I had no idea
this girl was 15. I had no idea. How do
you prove that he knew that she was 15?
>> I mean,
you would Well, for one thing, he's got
to book the ticket and pay for the
ticket.
>> Bingo. No. No. Right. Talk it through.
>> Yeah. Yeah. So, he has to
>> Now, you have to
>> get her driver's license or ID.
>> I know. You have to give her date of
birth. Now, what do you
>> Well, I know, but on the ID and
everything. That's one of the thing.
Name, full name, date of birth, what her
address is,
>> right? So, that's how they prove it.
That's how that's how Vinnie's entire
defense falls apart to the jury is the
fact that he booked the ticket. And you
need a date of birth of someone to book
a ticket these days. It wasn't always
that way. Five years ago, it wasn't
that. Really? Yeah. This is new.
>> The date of birth thing is a new thing.
Jury comes back guilty on all counts.
>> How much time you going to give old
Vinnie, Mr. Romeo, in federal prison.
Matt Cox,
>> I think he gets 20 years. I think he
gets 20 years.
>> This is felon in possession of a firearm
and the what is it? Hatch Act or No,
Hobs Hobs Act, whatever. No, not hot.
What's the What's the ant transportation
of kids called? Whatever it is. Uh
>> man act.
>> Oh, I don't know about any act as
>> that's when you that's when you bring a
girl across state lines, a minor for uh
for some sex nonsense.
>> 25 years. 25 years.
>> I'm not trying to talk you in. I just
want you to like think of both of those
crimes
and the fact that he went to trial and
lost
>> 45 years.
>> Yeah. I mean,
>> you know, whatever. Let's say
Yeah.
30 years. 30 years. 30. I'm going to go
with 30 years. 30 years.
>> You're sticking with 30 years in prison.
30 years.
>> You think it's too much?
>> Uh, I don't think I mean, listen, I'm
not a big fan of 42-y old Vinnie
Robustto. [laughter]
I'm going to go on a limb and say he's
not a good man.
>> Well, you know what bothers me is that
these guys
>> about your thought process. these guys
in federal prison um that are there for
like possession would get you know four
or five years right?
>> Mhm.
>> And then some guy in the state who
>> had kidnapped
>> Yeah.
>> some you know 14year-old
and you know did horrific things to her
and she manages to get away. They'll get
these guys would end up getting, you
know, whatever this five years in
probation or some guy who's talking to
some girl and meets her at a McDonald's
because he's he's clearly going to do
something. He shows up and he's got
>> he's got KY jelly uh restraints
>> photograph like horrific, right? Like
you know what's going to go down. That
guy ends up getting, you know, he'll end
up getting like probation like you know
the the to catch a predator. These guys
show up and they do it and they're like
they get like a year in jail and like 5
years probation. You're like, "Okay, but
if he had three photographs of the girl
naked, he gets five years."
>> I think that's why the police the police
understand that disparity, which is why
I think they really like looping the FBI
into these cases to where there's actual
teeth behind the sentencing. And but
that's also why so and so I'm thinking
to myself but this isn't that this is
>> this is the federal system and they're
you know a little less unforgiving. So
I'd say this is where I'm going to go 30
years cuz he went to trial and you know
>> but if it got 45 I wouldn't be shocked
but let's say 30
>> 30. Well you did good. He got 33 years.
>> Oh nice.
>> I think you and I can agree that there's
a lot of good that happens on the
internet. True crime podcasts. Yeah.
Okay. Yeah. Yeah.
>> Friends who meet via the internet and uh
and all that. It's able to catapult um
people who want to be in media who um
who you know don't need to play the game
and stuff like that, but you can kind of
raise your own pirate ship flag and have
something like this happening. The
internet's I think on balance a good
thing.
>> But the internet has very dark corners
of people who are doing depraved and
horrible things on the internet. You
ever heard of the phenomenon of animal
crush videos?
>> No.
>> It's as bad as it sounds. It's like a
>> Oh gosh. Oh, okay. Oh, no. This does
sound bad. This sounds like don't
with cats.
>> Kind of. Yeah. Yeah. Like basically
>> crushing animals under your boot and
filming it and then trading those videos
and engaging in those videos. It's
terrible. Terrible. Like
>> what's wrong with people?
>> People are terrible. People are
terrible. And in 2010, the US Congress
made the creation of animal crush videos
a federal crime.
And um and President Obama signed that
into law. And so it's an actual federal
crime now to be involved in animal crush
videos. Rod Bedra, maybe it's Bedra, Bed
Dra A, was a technology teacher at Lynen
McKinley High School in Columbus, Ohio.
and he had a secret life that his
family, his friends, his students, and
his administrators did not know existed.
He was a moderator on a secret online
group of men on Telegram where all roads
lead to if you're interested in online
crime. Telegram as a texting app is
benign, but the groups on Telegram are
just disgusting. Just disgusting people,
disgusting things. But there was a group
called A Million Tears on Telegram that
all these men got into where they got
off on sharing and viewing videos of
baby monkeys
being dismembered and abused by humans.
>> I know. I'm with you, Ben.
>> Okay, there's so depraved. Ron took it
one step further. He contacted poor
people in Indonesia
and paid them to physically
abuse baby monkeys and film it and then
send that those that fil those films to
him so he could trade with other guys in
this telegram community. Right? He's
commissioning the torture of baby
monkeys.
I'm disgusted by this. You're disgusted
by this. Any right-thinking person's
disgusted by this. You don't need me to
give you the details of the videos. I
mean, it's terrible. Okay, the court
records are just absolute shocking to
anybody. I mean, he did things to baby
monkeys. He commissioned these guys did
things to baby monkeys with like hot
screwdrivers that we that no creature
should ever have to endure, right? The
worst.
>> Um, production and distribution of these
animal crush videos, this falls under
that, um, is a federal crime. And Ron
finds himself the subject of a joint
investigation. something slips out there
in the world by FBI and US Fish and
Wildlife, another federal agency.
>> Okay.
>> Um for trading 64 monkey torture videos
that he personally commissioned. Right.
He never harmed a monkey.
>> Right.
>> Right. But he's basically commissioning
it. The Indonesians are doing it. He's
wiring the money to the Indonesians and
he's trading these videos. 64 monkey
torture videos that would not have
existed in the universe had he not
subsidized them. He gets charged with
this animal crush video statute from
2010. Loses his job as a school teacher.
His
>> Did you say he was a school teacher
before?
>> Yeah, I'm sorry. He's Yeah. technology
teacher at Lynden McKinley High School
in Columbus, Ohio.
>> Okay.
>> Loses his job as a school teacher. His
wife also divorces him. Says, "I had no
idea this is your thing when you I
thought you were playing World of
Warcraft or something." leaves his ass.
>> Um, he pleads guilty. Like I said, what
kind of sentence he going to give this
guy?
[laughter]
>> Do you Did you meet anybody with a
similar crime?
>> Where did Michael Vic get?
>> Oh, I mean, not long. He's he I feel
like five years and under. I mean, he
went back and played in the NFL, so it
wasn't that long.
>> 10 years. What What do you give this
guy? 20.
>> Your guess is 120 months in prison.
>> He probably didn't get anywhere near
that.
>> What do you think it is then, Paul?
>> I think it's
84 months.
>> 84 months.
>> Yeah.
>> Well, to not belabor this cuz I hate the
story.
>> Okay.
>> I don't know why I brought it, but I
hate
>> uh he got 54 months in prison and then
three years of supervised release after
that.
Sorry to end on such a downer, but
>> it's too bad he doesn't have to register
as a as a you know saying that.
>> It's weird. Yeah. Like I think like
every animal shelter should uh have a
picture of him up in it, you know, kind
of a do not fly list if he ever wants to
adopt a pet. I know you just adopted a
puppy.
>> Oh man. Oh man. I can Oh, if anybody
hurt my puppy.
>> I know. I know. It's the thing.
>> I can't imagine wanting to hurt anything
like that.
>> Monk. A baby monkey. What's cuter than a
baby monkey? It's just like what happens
to someone as a child that that becomes
your thing, your kink? Like what wires
get crossed in the human mind that you
can even and then then again, thank you
Telegram for giving us a community of
like-minded people who want this type of
content.
>> Mhm.
>> The old days you had something weird
going on. You kept it to yourself. You
didn't have like a group of pals.
>> Yeah.
>> Weird, huh?
>> Yeah. Which is all just supportive of of
one another. So it just eggs you on.
It's like an amplifier
>> become emboldened by
>> when it normalizes it, right? Like
you're maybe if you this was your thing,
you would at least feel shame about it.
But now you got buddies who who you can
like have this thing with like a poker
group. Forget about it.
>> So um how did our uh our host do?
>> So he lost
four of 15.
>> So for the year we had a total of seven
episodes where we kept score.
>> What?
>> Okay.
>> Yeah. So what do you think? What do you
think your record is?
>> We've only done this seven times.
>> Remember my first few episodes I was
telling my my fantastic life story and
telling telling stories from my career,
but we were never playing this game. And
then I said my tearful goodbye to you
saying, "Man, I've kind of shot my wad.
I don't really have any stories from
cases that I worked unless you wanted to
hear the same type of embezzlement story
and the same kind of Ponzi scheme story
again and again and again." And then we
thought, well, hell, I I tell these
crime stories. Why don't I come in and
we'll just tell crime stories from the
FBI and and we'll kind of riff on it.
And then that evolved quite organically
into the game show format where you're
guessing the sentence and and Col's
keeping score. So it sounds like we
seven episodes seems about right.
>> How do you remember all this? How do I
have Alzheimer's at my age and you're
perfectly
>> You do this every you do this every day
with your wildly famous show. For me
it's a very big deal to get to come on
your internet television show.
>> Well, how what what is it out of the
seven? How many
>> out of the seven? Matt has won four.
Four out of seven. Is that seven includ?
Yes, you're four and three, which I was
surprised.
>> Oh, I'm actually very surprised.
>> Yeah, that includes that time I I was
able to cheat because I I saw it on the
thing.
>> Yeah. So, you start you started off uh
winner
>> 3 and 0, then you lost, won, lost, and
lost. And we have one final story for
the year that will be coming out just
before Christmas.
>> Oh, yeah. So
>> yeah,
>> maybe maybe it'll be all all tied up by
the end of the year.
>> I have a Christmas tale for you that
we'll uh we'll tell on a special
standalone Christmas episode of Inside
True Crime with Matthew Cox. Once again,
I just want to thank you for having me
on. It means the world to me. And I do
get people calling me saying that they
saw me on the Matt Cox show and that
always warms my cockals that people are
out there um you know finding me here.
And I just want to let anyone who's
watching know that if you ever are
inclined to need a private investigator
or know someone who does, I'll always
make time for your referrals. I'll do
free consultations on the phone. Won't
charge you a penny. Any friend of the
Matt Cox Show is a friend of mine and
I'd be happy to talk to you about that.
If you're not already following me on
social media myself, not to steal Matt's
Thunder, but I have a social media
channel on Tik Tok, Instagram, and
YouTube, and it's @Simon Investigations.
And lastly, if you are part of a group
organization or company that brings in
outside speakers, if you can connect me
with that person, and we can have a
discussion about bringing me in to talk.
I have a presentation that people really
like on using FBI behavioral science
techniques to increase sales in your
organization and make your managers
better managers as well as how to
protect yourself from fraud and a
presentation for investigative groups on
how to conduct better financial crime
investigations. So once again, Matt,
just want to thank you for having me on
and uh you know, be cool, man. Have a
great Christmas.
>> Nice.
Okay. Hey you guys, I appreciate you
watching. Do me a favor, hit the
subscribe button, hit the bell so you
get notified of videos like this. Also,
if you want to uh contact Tom, we are
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there, you can subscribe, uh you can
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appreciate you guys watching. See you.
Have a great day and be
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