that mother fact there is not real the
FBI has jurisdiction for crimes abort
aircrafts so I want to tell you a story
that you're not going to necessarily
believe at first and when I told this
story on television I was criticized
more than I've ever been in my career we
get rolling Hello mat
Cox you gota start with the okay yes hey
Tom Matt
Cox did you know that it is illegal to
jerk off on a commercial airline flight
damn no I did not know that okay so I'm
here to ask I didn't know it was inter
anywhere I'm here to ask you to
stop the flight attendant have asked me
to ask you to stop lock me up no the
crime it's actually a crime it's a
federal crime it's an FBI crime it's
called lewd behavior on an aircraft so
what if you're in the bathroom well then
I think no one would know right and so
kind of uh I believe there's probably a
don't ask don't tell policy with regard
to the bathrooms when when the uh when
the The Urge strikes you so I want to
tell you a couple stories about guys who
disobeyed that law it's quite a career
you it's a public service announcement
for your viewers I you your viewers
reach out for me every now and then I
think they need to know this okay so uh
recent a American Airlines flight from
Chicago O'Hare to Scranton
Pennsylvania had a fellow on it a 24y
old guy from Jackson Mississippi how
appropriate layup named Jame James
Torres Smith to this day we do not know
what set him off we do not know what his
inspiration was but seemingly out of
nowhere he took it out and began
pleasuring himself in front of all of
the passengers around him nobody ever
asked what was there an interrogation
well he was uh he was arrested by the
FBI when they landed in Scranton and uh
and charge with lwd behavior on an
aircraft what penalty do you think a guy
like that should get for a crime like
that I I mean I think probably I think
two years probation and he has to have
some he has to see a psychiatrist for
six months right seems reasonable it's
we I mean I don't it's pretty disturbing
but yeah anyway yeah yeah I mean it for
you and I it's it'd be annoying but
imagine like the child I was going to
say it depends on who's around the nun
guy sitting next to him going yeah yeah
exactly exactly let's just say the seat
and the trade table weren't the only
things in an upright position Matt all
right so horrible
like all right the maximum penalty for
lwd behavior on an aircraft how much 90
days in prison really yeah seems low
doesn't it funny I was going to say I
have a I have a flight coming up yeah
there you three Hots in a cot for 90
days 90 days yeah but we again we don't
know what set him off and the reason why
the FBI had cares about this is because
the FBI is forced to care about this
because the FBI has jurisdiction to for
crimes aboard aircrafts period there's
no one else because it doesn't fall
neatly into any one state right and so
it ends up being an FBI problem so if I
was like the supervisor and this came
across my desk I I would be like who do
I not like well yeah imagine having a
fingerprint
the there a lot of Hands-On uh Behavior
there but we don't know what set him off
we have no idea but we have a much
better idea what set off 39-year-old
Krishna
kapali okay he an Indian national flying
on a half empty flight from Abu Dhabi in
the United Arab Emirates little kind of
near Dubai to Boston and he sees this
attractive woman from behind seated up
in like the next section and she had the
most beautiful luscious hair and his
mind starts rolling
right there's a seat empty next to her
so he plops down next to her we'll call
her
Leila okay he plops down next to her
because he I think he regards himself as
a bit of a pickup artist and he tells
her how beautiful she is and he begins
stroking her hair on the plane and and
telling her that he's very very wealthy
and that he would pay her
$5,000 to sleep with him at his hotel
room when they arrive in
Boston okay okay Lila turns him down no
not into it not into it Matt Cox she's
having none of it all right so she's so
not into it and so awkward aard that she
goes to the galley in search of a crew
member that she can tell to like get
this creep away from me he's right on
her heels to the galley there's a
service going on so there's no one in
the galley and again he Corners her and
begins stroking her hair continuing to
do this and she's a little freaked out
and he takes out his cell phone and
starts taking pictures of her because he
wants to memorialize how beautiful this
woman is wow she's losing it flight
attendant walks in what does the flight
attendant think I I I that it's a what
Instagram post well that she's
interrupting a couple having an intimate
moment in the in the galley she said she
says Hey listen you guys can't do that
here go take a seat Lea goes back to her
seat he actually goes back to his seat
like a section behind her and then Lila
goes and tells the flight attendant Hey
listen this is what occurred I don't
know this guy he did this he did this
this and the flight attendant you know
gives her an appropriate amount of
comfort meanwhile our boy Krishna is
back in his seat and uh and there's
people sitting around him you know this
is an international flight so you got
the section on the right you got the
section on the left you got like five
seats in the middle there's a lot of you
it's still half empty flight but there's
people there right another passenger a
Dude Looks over and Krishna is taking
care of himself is pleasuring himself
there in his seat and he's got the
photos the guy's looking right at
Krishna Krishna keeps at it and then
Krishna looks over makes eye contact
with the dude and then P pulls the
blanket up over him but continues doing
his thing to himself mhm right and so
the guy notifies the flight attendant
he's like he has no context all he does
is see this guy pleasuring himself the
tells the flight attendant what's going
on the flight attendant because it's a
half empty flight clears everyone else
out from that section and reassigns them
to different seats and uh well so
Krishna can have some alone time and
they land in Boston they call ahead some
very very lucky FBI agents get to escort
Krishna off the plane and under
interrogation he confesses to pleasuring
himself on the plane
um and uh and he's charged with that lwd
behavior on an aircraft was it the hair
or just in general he was just she was
she was beautiful she must have been
radiant yeah yeah she must have been
radiant like uh he couldn't resist
himself what would you sentence him to
the judge the same thing you said it's
it's the max is 90 days but I think you
have to take into consideration how
goodlooking does this chick right like
that's got to be like a downward
departure right he got no time no time
pled guilty to LW behavior on an
aircraft got no time two years probation
and I like this part a $5,000 fine nice
the amount of money that he was offering
Lea to spend the night in the hotel with
him first of all he he can't have that
much money he's flying he's flying you
know commercial so he can't be that rich
no he's got five grand to spend I he
yeah he says he
does yeah exactly um he was also ordered
to have no contact with Lila and to
delete the pictures of her that he put
on his phone the thing that people don't
keep in mind though is that you're also
banned from flying on that airline that
airline does not want you back American
Airlines I don't know if it was them
tells you you cannot come back and fly
with us if you are engaged in Behavior
like that which kind of boxes you out of
your some of your travel options well I
feel like all those guys end up on
Spirit
anyway you get what you pay for but
things get more serious if you do
different other things let's talk about
25-year-old Oregon resident Neil
McCarthy this is a party guy he liked to
party this guy would lik going to a
rager so he books a flight on American
Airlines from Portland Oregon to
Manchester New Hampshire for Fourth of
July weekend last year so he could have
a rager with his Bros okay he wants to
party and so but you can't get a direct
flight from uh you know Oregon to uh New
Hampshire so you got to stop in Chicago
right so he's he goes to Chicago and he
hits the bar at the airport and he's
just J down in Jack and Coke and Jack
and Coke and Jack and Coke after another
it was nothing short of a miracle that
he got on the plane at all so he's
sitting there the thing about Jack and
cokes is if you drink enough of them
what happens I don't drink I don't drink
either okay I don't drink either Colby
what happened what happens if you drink
a lot of black out you black out um I
don't know I'm I drink either are you
serious none of us I mean I have sad I
know three cool
guys we'll cut this far this is patreon
yeah yeah man these they they look like
such fun guys you got to pee Matt that's
what he had to do he had to pee really
bad but he's so inebriated that long
walk either up to the front or back to
the plane just seem like so much so Neil
gets up in front of everybody pulls it
out and starts urinating on the carpet
one of those P's that is like like just
releasing like so much pressure the PSI
was insane in his piss and so he's
pissing on the plane he's go using the
bathroom right on the floor people are
pulling out their phones and taking
pictures of him and filming him do this
it's available on the internet you could
watch it tonight if you wanted to you
speaking of we should play it patreon
content and it gets really and it starts
stinking right because it's gross right
and here's the difference they need to
divert the plane because it was so bad
and just so so disruptive to Buffalo New
York where it landed and if you divert
an airplane then the penalties get
higher than if you're if the plane's
allowed to land and it's it's like
you're inconveniencing everybody you're
costing the airlines money Etc
so Neil is taken off the plane by
airport police and handed off to the FBI
because again crimes on Commercial
aircraft or FBI jurisdiction and Neil
confesses in a recorded interview how
much time do you give Neil you be the
judge Matt Cox I mean they rerouted an
airpl I still feel like that's super Ser
rerouting having to reroute an airplane
is super serious right I mean I feel
like that's like you know probably
punishable by a year or two in prison
but that doesn't necessarily mean he's
going to get that I don't know what does
he get 3 months yeah you're good at this
you're good at this uh six months okay
for indecent exposure on an airplane
which somehow is a different crime than
lewd behavior on an airplane yeah yeah
yeah and um and he's not allowed to fly
American Airlines again at least until
he house broken so bad the sees
is the dad
jokes I I reject your dad joke
I was an FBI agent for 26 years seven of
those years I was at in the FBI Honolulu
office and Hawaii had a unique place in
the FBI because even though we were a
small office for the FBI in a relatively
crime-free State we led the nation in
crimes aboard aircrafts mhm that's
because it Hawaii is really far from
anywhere else it's probably like the
longest commercial flight you're going
to take for most people and is it like
six hours from deps where you're coming
from right California California like
four or five but yeah so it's a it's a
long flight and so what happens is this
the common denominator is this people
who are going on Long flights often
times they're drinking alcohol
beforehand they're all going on vacation
for the most part right and or coming
home they drink alcohol either on the
plane or before during a layover and
then they take ambian you ever take an
Ambien no you've never taken an ambian
to to fall asleep no I'm kind of I'm
more of a square than you probably think
oh no no I didn't I knew you weren't
Pablo bar but ambient is a uh it's a
I've taken ambian for I'm 55 years old I
fall asleep right now I go upstairs
right now and fall asleep I understand
I'm I'm your age as well but sometimes I
use ambient when I travel
internationally to kind of get regulated
um you know so you're sleeping at night
and awake during the day but ambient is
a very useful drug it gives you kind of
three or four hours of just a Michael
Jackson coma you like wake up and you
don't even know the time pass it's great
and you wake up and when you wake up
you're not groggy this is not sponsored
content but was going to say just
sounding pretty good to me yeah no and I
honestly ambian is a great drug the
problem is it could become not addictive
like you're like jonesing for it but for
a bunch of former secretaries of state
of the US you know mine Albright Hillary
Clinton you know all all of whom became
addicted to ambient when they were
secretaries estate because they're
constantly flying around negotiating
this or that or meeting with foreign
leaders and they need to be at the top
of their game then they can't sleep in
their normal day-to-day life without
ambient and they need to kind of wean
themselves off of it yeah that suck the
problem is and they tell you this in the
package but no one reads the warnings
the combination of ambian and alcohol is
really really kind not dangerous it's
it's really it has a what happens is you
black out and you and for a certain
percentage of the population will black
out if they take ambian and alcohol and
then they do crazy stuff then have and
wake up having no recollection that they
did it and on aircrafts again we saw
this like two three times a week at FBI
Honolulu people would um people would
like Rush the cockpit Punch Out flight
attendants uh like put put fellow
passengers in headlocks and just like
run up and down the aisle screaming
things and then the plane would land in
Honolulu we got a call ahead we would
meet them we'd take them off the plane
in handcuffs take them to a conference
room at the airport and then they would
kind of like say well and they almost
like wake up and say what's going on I'm
in handcuffs and you'd say well you have
no recollection of what happened on that
flight and they're like no and I go well
you rushed the cockpit you you punched
out a flight attendant you uh you know
put your put your seat made in a
headlock you ran up and down the aisles
like a lunatic again and again again
this happens and they're like I'm sorry
sir I'm director of you know I'm
Assistant Director of Human Resources
for Microsoft Corporation I don't know
what you're talking about and I go did
you take ambient he goes yeah I had a
few jack and cokes and had an ambian and
I and and that's what happened right so
what do you do with a guy like that Matt
you're the a Justice guy the Justice guy
do we have to did we did we reroute the
flight no no flight landed in Honolulu
as planned you got a guy who scared the
heck out of everyone in the plane like
trying to burst into the cockpit act
acting like a lunatic disobeying flight
attendance orders made it like I've
talked to you know we always interview
the other passengers also and quite
often they're thoroughly terrified at
like a madman running around the plane
like Conan the Barbarian what do you do
I think the problem with my my feeling
for that is that there was he he had no
idea this was going to happen do you see
what I'm saying like I can't I can't
make somebody a felon or like I could
see you could put him on probation if we
could not make him a felon could you
give him a Mis meter and give him three
months probation something silly and pay
a fine yeah you know like like it's I
can't send this guy to prison he's just
an idiot like he didn't know right right
okay no I think and you're on the right
track so the Dilemma we have is that you
know all those things the interest of we
don't want to have to taxpayers pay to
house the vice president of Human
Resources who happen to take a pill and
drink and drink a vodka Coke um put him
to house him in prison but we also need
to send a statement that this is not
acceptable behavior so what we would
allow them to do is plead guilty to a
misdemeanor um of interfering with the
flight crew and uh and then um in in
court in Honolulu and they you know
again they've spent the night at the
Metropolitan Correctional Center there
the Federal Detention Center and um and
then uh and then they and their their
sentence is agreed upon As Time serve
yeah I was going to say they they've
been they've been thoroughly humiliated
they had a terrible vacation right
they've ruined the vacation for their
family members what's interesting about
that and always kind of bothered me
ethically but but it's it's the only way
to do it is that in order to make a
guilty plea and as you know you have to
have some consciousness of guilt when
you get up before the judge and you're
saying and you're admitting to a crime
right these guys all were being forced
basically to lie to the judge about
apologizing for this crime they
committed because they had no idea they
committed the crime right but I think
and I think the judges understood that
the prosecutor sure did the agent gosh
darn did and the defense attorneys did
but everyone is just kind of agreeing to
like wink and Nod and uh and allow the
guy to apologize for his awful behavior
on the plane blame it on the Ambi and an
alcohol and allow him to eat the
misdemeanor with time served it it was
so commonplace that they didn't even
assign like any one agent or any squad
of agents to deal with it it was kind of
like you were the duty agent for the day
or the week to deal with the airport
guys because inevitably they were two or
three a week wow and and they all had
the same insane story there's got to be
a ton of people that fly I wonder if
Hawaii is the most flown to State
because let's face it that you're not
driving there no Orlando Vegas uh really
yeah without question but there's no
other way to get like it's Orlando or
something you can drive there you can
drive there the rest of America can't
right well they can if you're in North
Carolina South Carolina geia people
drive from New York I promise you I
promise you that that Orlando is getting
more visitors per week than Honolulu
okay and Orlando airport is also a hub
and uh my point though is that you're
right the the issue is the issue is the
length of the flight um makes people do
things to make the time pass that they
wouldn't otherwise do I mean if you're
flying from New York that's like an 8 n
hour flight it's you drive yourself
insane I had a case when I was there or
and you I was I had I was peripherally
involved with this one a 21-year-old guy
from American Samoa named Lalu
seui these names let's call him Lou yeah
yeah okay uh he was a Mormon uh Jesus
Christ a latterday Saints member coming
back from his mission trip you know the
young guys do the one-year mission trip
in the Mormon Church his was in the
Philippines and he's going back to
American Samoa which is part of the us
it's a US Territory uh next to Western
Samoa but the um in order to get there
you fly through Honolulu so Honolulu
serves as a hub there his seatmate
42-year-old woman imagine she was
attractive I didn't actually get to meet
her interview her she sitting next to
him and making small talk next to the
21y old boy she's twice his age and then
she pulls out some NyQuil pulls herself
a shot of n pours herself a shot of
Nyquil swallows it down and then drifts
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whopping 50% off sitewide she wakes up
90 minutes later with L's hand up her
shirt and under her bra feeling her
breasts whoa yeah not cool
no not cool not cool and um Lou what are
you doing bro so she loses it contacts
the flight attendant they move her
elsewhere uh FBI comes in to uh take Lou
off the plane in handcuffs during the
interrogation Lou confesses admits that
he groped the woman aboard the flight he
was spent days in custody kind of
figuring out what the heck to do with
him and uh what do you do with
him not cool not not cool Matt Cox
um I don't know I don't feel good about
this guy this guy this guy's very close
to registering in my opinion I feel the
same way this one I'm thinking they he
probably still
gets six months I'd say he gets what six
months to a year what five years paper
something like that what's the max the
max for groping might be five years I
probably I would say he probably gets
six months or probably gets a year he
probably gets a year and he does uh gets
two three years paper skin on skin right
wasn't even over the
bra I'm not it's not funny it's an awful
experience woman it's wrong he got the
five days that he spent in custody no
the judge then sentences him to 2 years
probation and he must perform 200 hours
of community service and then Cuts him
loose to American Samoa how did I get 26
years he AP at his sentencing he
apologized to the family into the
community uh the the community that he
embarrassed and um yeah and not a look
not a good look for the church either no
I mean again I mean say what you will
about the ldsp they're they're nice guys
this isn't their thing this not their
jam it's not an epidemic of this among
them and uh yeah so terrible all right
so I'm going to tell you a story that
you're not going to necessarily believe
at first and when I told this story on
television and uh and in the newspaper I
was criticized more than I've ever been
in my career uh and so our story it
takes place in
2014 a 15-year-old boy living in San
Jose California is fighting with his dad
they're just not getting along but that
happens when you have a teenage kid
sometimes they clash with the parents
kid runs away from home he he lived in
Santa Clara California on a Sunday what
year was this
2014 where were
you I feel like I might have because we
talked about this already I feel like I
might have seen this um uh on on the
news like because but go ahead this is
huge news but but you you had a little
bit of a sneak preview what we're
talking about so act surprised
been here before man so um Santa CL
Santa Clara California gets in a fight
with his dad 15-year-old boy runs off
runs away on a Sunday
afternoon he gets to San Jose
International Airport and um and I
probably shouldn't say this on YouTube
but it's out there in the universe not
the best security at San Jose airport he
walks up to a chain link fence and
climbs over a chain link fence and now
he's down on the like tarmac mhm
15-year-old kid he looks at the closest
plane goes into that goes up to that
plane the sitting there parked on the on
the tarmac climbs up into the wheel well
which has a little kind of compartment
in the wheel well curls himself up in a
ball and sits there commercial airplane
a commercial airplane okay 747 or
whatever the plane takes
off the kid had no idea where this plane
would be going did he realize that he
was a stow away he's trying to run away
from home CU he's decided he hates his
father okay cuz you just said he kind of
you know fell asleep right like laid
there or no I mean he he he gets up into
the plane and kind of crouches down to
not be noticed Cur curls up so he's
aware of what he's doing okay yeah no
he's trying to go elsewhere but he
doesn't even care where right home life
is that bad for him in his perception
yeah right what he doesn't know is that
this is a Hawaiian Airlines flight
destined for
Maui he won the stowaway Lottery the
plane takes off again things think about
this 50 degrees below zero at 30,000
feet for five and a half
hours the the kid passes out yeah I was
going to say plus it's it's
unpressurized right like that is there a
no no no this isn't there's no there's
nothing there's no the air it's not
pressurized at all he is um he should
have died like medically biologically
right but he survives this thing so so
the Cal doesn't kill him the Cal doesn't
kill him neither does lack of oxygen and
nor does he fall out of the plane when
the wheels come down right um I know
that's happened before I've heard that
happen well we'll get into some stats
here the plane lands in
Maui um and uh and while and sits there
you know on the ground they're unloading
one flight loading up the next flight
and uh and the ground crew sees him
dangle like Curious George from the
bottom of the plane hop down onto the
tarmac and start walking around and
they're like oh my god what happened
they go and get him they call security
he's weak right he's he's not doing well
um he falls to the ground and then
regains some strength stands up and
starts walk to walk to the front of the
aircraft I watched the video of this the
cops in the FBI are called the kid is
interviewed and his story is solid like
he was exactly The Runaway that they
thought he was you know 15-year-old boy
um so much could have gone wrong for him
right as we said like the um this has
happened before and most of the um
relatively small number of people who
tried this have just died right they
succumb to the lack of oxygen to the
temperatures that dip to the 50 below
zero um or they fall out like we said
when the landing gear comes down did you
say 50 below 50 below zero I thought it
was 15 below No 5 Z below and 30,000 ft
for 5 and a half hours so this comes out
in the news it was a big news story at
the time that this kid survived you know
and I was doing the media coordination
for the FBI so I was the guy talking
about this and the newspapers and all
that and uh and then then NBC has an FAA
kind of flight analyst guy who says that
I'm full of beans because there's no way
someone could survive for this and uh
and thank heavens the FAA came to my
rescue um and said that they had done a
study on this because this happens every
now and then where people try this right
and uh what happens is you're breathing
your heart rate it's called um what deep
hypoxia is the term it's kind of a state
similar to hibernation like what happens
to to a bear right you kind of go in you
go into a coma you're breathing your
heart rate your brain activity continues
but at a much slower than normal rate
again this is for the lucky ones who
survived this uh being younger helps
one's chance of survival if you crawl up
into the wheel well and you have this
experience um surgeons are about
surgeons have done studies to try to
recreate this this kind of mental state
for surgery purposes is kind of almost
anesthesia the FAA came to my rescue and
put out a press release saying that
there were 9 attempted stowaways on 84
flights around the world between 1996
and 2012 using this method 75% of those
resulted in deaths and which means about
24 23 people have survived including my
kid that's not great odds not great odds
he didn't have brain damage in the end
or nothing no he was fine it was weird
um the last known person before him to
survive was a guy named Fidel marui who
in 2000 hitched a ride in a wheel well
from Tahiti to Los Angeles which was a
seven-hour flight uh and uh that also
dropped to the same temperature along
them here's the problem I had the media
all wanted to interview the kid M and
the media all wanted and and there were
also people saying like he should have
been charged with a
crime first problem we'll start with the
second thing charging him with a crime
the federal system of Criminal Justice
does not have a
juvenile right detention like you
apparatus there's just no crime to
charge a 15-year-old boy with and also
should we be charging a 15-year-old
runaway from let's say a hypothetically
abusive household with a crime for
running away and just being a really
really dumb kid doing something
incredibly Reckless and dangerous I
thought not and um I could see the only
thing I could even think to charge him
with because he didn't interfere with
the flight or anything else that's the
only thing I can think of as trespassing
cuz you jumped the fence you went like
that's it like other than the as far as
the planes concerned he didn't affect
anything right didn't harm anything
here's the problem that here's the other
problem I had and again people were
calling for his head you saying that he
this whole thing was planned or that he'
somehow punched his way through to kind
of like the baggage area none of which
was true he he this was exactly what it
appeared to be yeah the problem that I
had and I'm happy to say this today even
though I I did not disclose this 10
years ago is that the kid's name was
Muhammad right
ah al so it would have been even worse
for him imagine if if that was out there
in the media at the time when people are
calling for his head or saying that he's
alive saying it was an act of terrorism
or something like that we got a
15-year-old kid immigrant from Somalia
named Muhammad who jumps off fence in
what 2014 you know and sto his away on a
plane and uh and so you know but again
the kid was legit we you know we yeah
yeah you vetted the whole story right
right right exactly you know we spoke to
his father and all that and it was just
an unfortunate situation and uh you know
and but it didn't seem like it was worth
my time as a public information officer
one to out a runaway kid and two to
throw gasoline on the fire of the story
by the fact that he was Islamic right
can we stop for a second
sure I am going to raise this am I am I
audio on you're too tall I'm a human
giant no one has ever seen a man this
large so all right yeah what are we
doing all right um so let's shift gears
and you got to catch him doing this the
the before and after the the uh the
action so got three two one all right so
here's the thing so I you haven't got
like a professional gig yet that's what
this is the closest I have to a
professional gig is getting to drive
three hours on my own dime to come to
your apartment oh that's right and then
turn around and drive back for three
hours that's right remember the first
time we we talked you were like uh do
you compensate for I was like
no can you cover my hotel bro no just be
wake up early be here at 9 A.M yeah
exactly so uh so you know as an FBI
agent part of of my job is to fly armed
right when I was the an FBI agent I'm no
longer an FBI agent so you know I've
flown probably a thousand times with a
gun on my hip right and there's a whole
procedure in place that due to air
safety I'm not going to disclose in
great detail but the bottom line is that
you don't go through the TSA the normal
TSA checkpoint and then mention it yeah
right oh yeah yeah by the way yeah might
be something in that bag well it's on
your hip you can't even you can't even
put it in your bag they don't allow
you're not allowed you have to you must
be carrying the gun on your person if
you're flying you can't like put it in
your like carry-on and still it above
your head and fall asleep okay yeah and
so um well I know that people like if
you want to this is what I heard that if
you actually want to travel with your
gun you can call beforehand or something
and go and turn it in yeah and then they
there's a procedure for them to take it
and they do something with and then you
get it back like that's for normal
people you're going on like a hunting
trip or you're like a Target shooter and
you wanted your special gun for the
competition in you know Minnesota or
whatever but for me I'm you know I'm I
think the airlines would look at us as
kind of an additional level of of
security on the plane during that window
of time so you can't drink alcohol on
the plane or take ambian and uh and um
God but you can doze off you know
there's no rule against that unless
you're flying Alaska Airlines which is
why I hate Alaska Airlines so what
happens you get on the flight and
especially in Hawaii you know it's a
long flight to anywhere and you would
sit down and maybe you'd fall asleep in
your plane you're sitting there like
this with your eyes closed and the
flight attendant would come up to you
and Shake you because the flight
attendants know who the armed people are
on board whether it's you or an air
marshal or another police officer from
another agency before the flight you all
get together and kind of like make eye
contact with each other and meet each
other um so if something should go to
hell on the the plane you know who's
allowed to have a gun and who's not
right right so it's important that you
know every and the flight crew knows
also and uh but Alaska Airlines had a
rule that you must not that if you're
flying armed you must be awake at all
times and they would grab you and Shake
you awake if you happen to fall asleep
and so as a result I stopped flying on
Alaska airlin because I'm looking to get
some z's I mean I if you know if a
terrorist takes over the plane wake me
up and I'll deal with the situation when
I'm asleep you and I'm and I'm armed you
may have a problem well some of the
agents what they took to doing is
wearing giant sunglasses on the planes
to like inside you know which looks
corny but then it's up to the flight
attendant to figure out if you're
actually asleep or not um and and after
the 911 attacks I was occasionally
getting upgraded to first class which
the idea being to put the guy with the
gun near the uh near the cockpit so if
anything should go sideways I could be
there to defend the plane I'm here to
confess today
mattcs that they did not get their
money's worth out of putting me in first
class cuz I fell asleep bin Laden
himself could have been spooning with me
grabbing my gun and I would have been I
would not have noticed um there's other
funny little rules like Southwest
Airlines you would think you know that
whole pretense that the exit row is you
you want someone like big and Burly and
strong who can like open the exit row
they wouldn't allow the agents flying
armed who have to pre-board on Southwest
Airlines to sit in the exit rows because
that's for their like Premier passengers
who like pay extra to kind of board in
group one right okay in my mind like
well this is crazy like I'm exactly who
you want in uh in the eggsit row I mean
all I cared about was the leg room cuz
I'm a tall drink of water mat and uh but
but the but the airline had wanted
nothing of it so they're Hypocrites in
my book now I'm curious you know having
flown that many times with a gun I never
ever in my career transported a prisoner
as part of my job just you know it just
never came up for me but I'm wondering
when you were a prisoner were you ever
train transported on a commercial
airline flight and I know you also flew
as a fugitive probably more than once
and I'm just so curious how that worked
uh I mean I was never I was transported
but not on a commercial it was on a what
was that like it was horrible like I me
at least was it first class it wasn't as
first
class I mean they give you like peanuts
and stuff was it a hot flight attendance
what was what was it like it wasn't like
the was it like the movie it wasn't as
bad it wasn't as bad as the movie cuz
it's it's a normal commercial jet uh do
the US Marshals run that jet yeah they
run they own it I I'm sure they have a
few of them um and so it's a normal and
it's a big one it's not like it's a
little one with two rows it's got the
big one with the three rows right in the
middle row and you know you pull up in
your your van and you're locked up with
eight other guys and and there's
hundreds of inmates already there on the
tarmac just standing there waiting all
of them in shackles and you got US
Marshall standing around the perimeter
of the plane where were you going from
from where to where I was going from
Memphis Tennessee to Oklahoma City cuz
that's where there's a transfer or a
what I forget what they call it whatever
it's a the something they call it
something it's a it's a it's a facility
where you actually you you land at the
airport and the that arm that comes and
connects to the plane like the the
raised whatever walkway right what they
call it you actually when you get on
that you actually go directly into the
prison you never leave that okay and
that's like that's pretty insane but
yeah when when you when we got on you
get on and you sit down and the was
Oklahoma City serving as a hub for the
US Marshal Service to dispatch planes
around the nation trans they call it
transfer station or whatever they call
it I for I used to know the name of it
like Atlanta is a hub for Delta Oklahoma
City is a hub for Conair yeah exactly
inter exactly so so I got on it at um in
Memphis we get
on you they load the whole plane up and
then the last thing they do is like the
first few rows is are the women they
come on last CU there's so few female
prisoners M and they say you know you
just get there and you you they are you
handcuffed while you're in the air oh
yeah you're handcuffed you're Shackled
right so you got the shackles on your
legs the handcuffs and you typically
have I I'm pretty almost positive we had
the do we have a chain and I'm pretty
sure yeah you had the Rope rope chain
you have the Rope for the duration of
the
flight no that's Ser like I'm thinking
like a water landing if you guys need to
like deploy give guys will see like what
if we crash in the water and it's like I
don't give a [ __ ] if we crash the water
I'm curious makes such a big deal with
that stuff when you're on a commercial
airline I'm just wondering if if none of
the same rules apply no none of those
rules apply you're not you're no longer
you're you're ex you're exempt from all
those do they bother doing the
pre-flight announcements about like the
the you know the cup falling with put it
on your your the child next to you first
or anything like that it's funny when
you sit down you got the thing so what
the hard the worst thing is when they if
it's long and this is typically buses I
don't remember them doing this somebody
told me they did this on Conair I don't
remember this happening but it's
possible they give you a bag lunch they
give you a bag with like a peanut butter
and jelly sandwich and or ham sandwich
or I'm sorry baloney sandwich or
something and you have to try and eat it
so you're doing this trying to eat the
food I mean it's pretty bad yeah um
anyway all load up then then they come
on and the Marshals are in there with
shotguns you know and they're yelling
the FL itself and they're yell like then
they you know hey if somebody's like hey
man I go to the bathroom sit down you'll
go to the bathroom once we're in the air
like they they lie to you the whole time
the guys on the tarmac waiting they they
tell you they'll they'll when you get on
board they'll give you a bathroom then
they sit you down then they say we'll
give it to you when you get in the air
yeah once you're in the air you get to a
certain point then they start doing it
row by row well I mean guys are it's are
known like the whole plane smells like
piss because guys start pissing their
pants because you've been standing there
for an hour on the charmac and then you
get up you know and guys get up there
and now it's been trying to hold it for
three hours do they let you use the
restroom on the plane they do let you
use the it's but they they're dismissing
you row by row to use it if you don't
have to go at that point right who knows
how long you were in the van right cuz
you get on the van MH that could be a 45
minute drive to an hour drive whatever
2hour drive then you get here you're
standing on the TAC for an hour and a
half then you get in the plane and it's
30 minutes to get in the air to the
point where it's try to hold it for 3
hours were there flight attendant or
just Marshals with guns Just Marshals
with guns yelling at you no movie no
movie no snack and this is the funniest
thing this is I mentioned this the other
day uh cuz I actually had this
conversation the other day on a podcast
where you don't realize those those
commercial
jets that they they can not straight up
but they can they when when you take off
from the airport right and nice and it's
it's okay it's going and it's slowly
going they don't have to do that a lot
of that's for the sake of the passengers
to make them comfortable they're not
trying to make you comfortable and this
thing there I mean it is it's like L
it's like it's it's going almost
straight up until it and then it levels
so when it levels off you're like like
you guys are like [ __ ] like you know
what the like they don't give a [ __ ] and
you're going like this is terrifying
that this thing cuz you keep thinking
like I'm thinking like the wings going
to break off or something that's how
that's how dramatic but that's when you
also really realize like these things
are put together like you can't believe
these planes so anyway yeah they fly the
whole time then when they come down they
hit hard you know they land hard that's
how it's just supposed to land actually
for when they're teaching you know
people how to fly the best landing is
kind of a hard landing and let the let
the wheels kind of take the brunt of it
but they're doing it right right no the
the smooth Landing that everyone enjoys
is uh is done for the sake of the
passengers oh yeah absolutely which I
love I love it when you when I barely
yeah it's just a sweet nice little land
just a little kick forward that you know
these guys are B but the airplane is
built to be landed like a like with a
thud yeah oh and I listen every time I
I'm taking off or Landing in my mind I'm
telling myself these things are built by
amazing Engineers they're super smart
they know exactly they're they're built
the last 50 100 years like I'm telling
myself this to make sure I'm so that I
don't freak out I heard a turbulence
stat that an airplane like a 747 can be
built to so the Wings will actually
touch themselves if they were bent up
above the plane and below the plane like
those wings are that flexible that they
will I mean it'll never hopefully never
happen but but that's why turbulence
should not be a concern to you to you
but it's also why you should have your
seat belt fastened because sometimes
turbulence will pop up and every now and
then every couple years there's a story
about people getting brained on the
ceiling and like getting brain damage or
dying just because they're just sitting
there like you know watching a Vin
Diesel movie I keep my seat belt on all
the time listen I'm not I'm not you know
I I look like the uh the picture of of
uh you know of of um mental health and
and but I mean you know in calmness but
inside I'm going I'm like oh my God you
Jess will look over at me I'm like it's
fine it's fine we're good A little bump
it's not my chick here you gotta be cool
yeah
I'm um but anyway so yeah we Come Down
Bam we land the arm comes out it takes
you away they take the handcuffs off
real quick and then they they literally
I would say this like
the Bop could or the Marshall Ser I
don't know who's taking these things off
honestly but when you walk in to that
through the hallway thing I forget what
I should know what they call it but you
get up there they have a they have a
it's actually like a wooden box that's
like three people high and you walk up
there and the guys that work it are
sitting on stools they literally like
hit your keychain I mean it's like boom
boom Oh a shot and then they get Bam Bam
Bam and it gets yanked off you're like
jesz is it normal metal handcuffs like
the kind of yeah but they're that fast
and they do it so quickly and then you
march off and they put you in a room
that's got Diamond plating around it and
they throw you a sandwich actually true
that's not true the they actually had a
bin where you could get they had two
different kinds of B bags which I
thought was nice it's like peanut butter
jelly or H or um baloney sandwiches
something for the vegetarians yeah so it
was nice nice but yeah that's it so I've
done that now when you were fugitive and
you actually on the run you had to fly
at some point yeah how' you manage that
with all I mean was TSA in place at that
time or was this pre 911 or after 911 no
this is this is after 911 so how did you
manage the flying flying I mean I feel
like I get a proctology exam now as a
private citizen every time I get on the
plane with the number of IDs and the
facials the facial recognition and all
that did was that ever an issue for you
I don't know about fral recognition I
had an ID that said had my name on it
or I always had I've had like 26 27 of
them from like seven different states
where I went into the by the DMS by the
DM and I've also got a passport issued
by the state department so if I'm let's
say I was flying to you know uh Italy I
I mean when I go through uh Customs you
know when I'm walking through or really
coming back but when you're going there
coming back I've got a passport issued
so they scan it and they ask you what
are you doing you this is not something
you made in your bathtub this is
government issue the the ID supporting
it was the nonsense correct so if they
were to run it I would think that they
would be okay because they're probably
going to run it against that passport
and keep in mind this is back in
2006 I think it was probably tighter
then than it is now although the facial
recognition stuff was less applicable I
I'll tell you the the here's the story I
think yeah that we we're looking for is
what the the didn't I tell you about
coming back in the United States yeah
share that with me okay so what happened
was when I first got on an air when I
first got out of prison and I got on an
airplane and I had to fly to I wanted
well first you know where I flew the
first place I flew was Puerto Rico okay
had to get permission of course I was
going there to meet with some investors
who wanted me to basically be
entertainment for them while they while
we ate tell them a story for a couple my
story it's spend two or three
hours um under the guys of education but
so they fly me in and I remember
thinking as I'm walking through the
airport one super cool right like I was
just in the halfway house not long ago
prison the whole thing so that was like
exciting but like the whole time I was
thinking like are they going to let me
on the plane like like why wouldn't they
well because when I was on the run there
was like a red notice like arrest this
guy
immediately yeah no that's exactly like
so you were worried that the interpo red
notice had not been cleared correct so
and I'm flying I mean the FBI agent
literally has to fill out a form to have
that cleared right I'm sure I forgotten
well so
so I I had to fly and two the other
problem is I'm not flying to you know to
Alabama I'm flying to Puerto Rico which
I understand still in the United States
but I didn't know if there was an extra
layer of coverage whatever so I don't
know so when I go in through TSA and I
you know give them the thing and they
scan your your driver's license and give
it back and I'm waiting like and I I
left extra early like what if there's an
issue make sure and boom I go through
and they're putting me on the plane I
was like Wow super cool and you're not
handcuffed
no new experience so I I fly there I
come back same thing coming back maybe
Wonder okay I come back and I'm like oh
I'm good this is done it's a done deal
so that happens and then so then I then
I start flying all over the United
States because I'm doing these these
banking conventions right speaking gigs
thank you so I'm doing you the whole
keynote speakers I'm going back and
forth uh different you know whatever
cyber conventions banking conventions
whatever they're flying me so I feel
like I'm good but then one time after
maybe a year about about two years I get
approached by a company a production
company out of Amsterdam they're doing a
TV show called um Inside the Mind of a
con artist and they've interviewed a
bunch of different famous con artists
and so they say hey we want to fly you
out uh you know I argue with them on
what they're going to pay we negotiate
whatever so uh I get a nice check what I
was thrilled with by the way um so I go
get on the plane I fly in I'm thrilled
I'm in Amsterdam it's during Co right
yeah uh wanted to go to an an Frank's
house apparently it's it was like a six
like apparently if you want to go even
when there's not covid it's like a six
month to a year waiting list so you
can't you're not showing up and getting
a ticket yeah and then you know in the
end I heard like it's just a house yeah
I mean not like they balling out of
control back then so um and so you know
and and I went I kind of hung out you
know walked around a little bit but it
wasn't thrilling uh everything's closed
but it is super cool wasn't there some
story about when you were a fugitive on
the run and someone left a car at the
airport or something like that I'm
trying to yeah yeah I've done I I did
that like one time when I was um well
I've done it twice one when we were
in Georgia we left the well that we left
the car in the police substation and
then second one we did was when I was in
Nash
no Charlotte North Carolina we left it
at long-term parking and we left uh we
went to the bank and got um I forget
what the currency is for like uh Spain
or something like l or something I
forget what it was called and we left a
couple of L coins like we got like a
dollars worth and threw a couple in
there and we printed out like a a
brochure for like a a hotel and then
like wedged it under the seat you know
to throw anyone off the the sent was
trying to find you like six or eight
months later there was an article where
they said we you know we believe he's in
Italy or we believe he's in Spain or
something like that I was like oh that
was the such such I knew so I thought oh
that's so cool but so what happens is I
end up flying to Amsterdam hung out
there for a few days flew back and when
I flew back I flew into uh Atlanta
International Airport so I fly in you
know I got a I got another flight I get
there and I'm walking you know come in
you know you come in and there's the
line there's people in front of you and
that first person you know you walk up
and he checks it out such and such okay
thank you click boom welcome back click
you know oh what were you here for
whatever it was you know whatever they
say boom boom he gets to me scans it you
know oh what was you what were you here
for I was like oh um you know I think I
said like vacation or something or I I
or maybe I said you know business I
forget what I said the answer was and he
went scanned it and he looked at and he
goes like this looks at the screen
looks at me takes the passport and puts
it to the side oh and then he goes he
starts doing you know the whole you're
he's scrolling on something right and I
and he's these other people went right
through and I'm sitting there must been
a White Knuckle moment for you and I'm
sitting there like well you know what
I'm thinking I'm like I know I haven't
done anything wrong like I I know but
I'm wondering like I got a flight like
and this they didn't give me a ton of
time yeah and I hate Atlanta airport and
I'm not used to it you know now I go to
Atlanta and I know the whole thing I'm
fine but then I'm like I'm nervous cuz
I'm being told you got to go to a
completely different Wing you got to
whatever it's very linear very yeah so
I'm he's sitting there and sitting there
and I sat there for while he's doing it
and he and he looks up he keeps glancing
at me and I go how bad is it and I go
how bad is it like that and he goes well
you're definitely going to have to talk
to somebody like that and I thought holy
[ __ ] like I'm kind of joking right yeah
and I here's what's so funny is like and
I never saw him do anything like it
literally he had taken the passport
stuck it over here here yeah and then
just started doing this like focusing on
his screen right I never saw anything
but while I'm talking he's facing this
way to the screen there's a hallway like
you have think it's all of these
different all of these different
stations and I'm way down you had to
walk by all these stations cuz his was
the one that was open like maybe two or
three of them are open but there's like
there's like a dozen or there's more
like two dozen and there's maybe four
that are open so we had to walk all past
so way down this hallway way past the
thing I see a door open and so guys
walking and walking you start to realize
and he's walking and walking and walking
he all the way up and he's got he walks
up and he leans in and grabs my passport
of course you know you're aware of where
your passport is so as soon as he grabs
it I'm like you know I immediately look
he grabs it he grabs it and he sticks it
into this a thick clear envelope uh oh
right he boom it's evidence that needs
to be preserved that's what I'm thinking
I'm like oh that's not good so he drops
it in there and he goes Mr Cox and I'm
like you know I'm like yeah and he's
like follow me and I'm like oh uh okay
so then I I follow him and you know I'm
looking at the other guy he's sitting
there like looking at me like um like he
didn't catch Hannibal Lecter bro I
promise you this is a mistake you bring
to like a secondary screening area
brings me to another area his he's got a
whole another little cubicle thing set
up a couple doors down yeah into another
area where it's clearly like this is
another whole section here I didn't even
know this was in back here so I go there
I sit down he he's got my thing and he
sits there and he starts looking now
he's doing the scrolling scrolling and
I'm like what's going on and he's like
just give me a minute looking looking
looking and and finally he goes okay um
he goes what did you do is it like a
Ponzi scheme or something what what did
you and I looked at him and I went I'm
I'm I'm it was bank fraud it was just
bank fraud and I mean you know wire
fraud and some bank fraud related
charges yeah he goes um okay uh and I
said what's the issue I said I I'm paid
your debt to society yeah I said what is
the issue I said I should be fine I said
I'm I'm I'm on probation but I said I
got permission to yeah you know to fly
and he looked at me and he goes uh he
sat there and he goes um he goes well
there's there's a there's an expired and
I don't know what he said I don't know
if he said red notice or whatever it was
yeah um he said you know but let's say
that's what I said he said there's an
there's an expired red notice on you and
I go well it's expired yeah and he goes
still you know the look on his face well
imagine what a boring job it is to
finally come upon someone with your
stature yeah like come on it's yeah I
get it you know and I was like it's
expired and he's like yeah still and he
sat there he goes okay what what's what
happened I said look I'm allowed to fly
and he goes okay he goes do you have
anything that says that and he said he
goes he goes you're on federal he knew I
was on federal pration he goes you're on
federal probation and I go yeah but I
got permission to fly he goes do you
have anything that says that and I went
yeah yes yes I do I luckily I had my
carry on and I had it with me I said oh
and I got to think something from the
judge actually had to get the judge to
give me something so I had both of them
and he goes okay well you should have
started with this I said well nobody
told me anything yeah know they freeze
you out yeah yeah you didn't tell me
what this was I mean I kind of knew he's
like okay and he looks at it he flips
around and he's like okay he's like what
did you do what kind of and I said well
gave him a quick boom bo boom you know
this you know made some fake people was
borrowing money and did that as I went
to prison you know I I just got out I'm
on probation he's like okay okay what
were you doing over there and so we're
talking and he's now he's just asking
questions and I was like listen is this
gonna I said you understand I have
another flight I said I don't know if
I'm I going to miss my flight he goes
when is it I told him he's like oh wow
okay yeah hold on let's get you going
and then he oh he already had while he
was there another guy so they had like a
tram behind him yeah and so another guy
well whatever the the tram came and
another guy picks up my bag from the
tram and walks it over and say so he's
they've pulled my bag they've got
everything right there and you know he
didn't have to go through the bag or do
anything like that so he grabbed the bag
grabbed me walked me straight through
security straight through everything
there's a bunch of back doors and then
and basically Set Me Free he said okay
good luck you got to go that way and
that secondary screening is no joke it's
it's nerve-wracking but keep in mind I
don't even have anything like I don't
I've got something from W and that's the
only time I've ever had that problem by
the way interesting Chicago we had a um
back in the day I don't even know if
it's still the case people would uh are
Cuban cigars still like something you
can't own in the US it was a big deal
back it was a big deal at one point I
think they they said that Cuba was
making more boxes so people were
shipping like the boxes over here or or
there was something with the boxes and
back back in the 90s you know it was a
really big deal to have Cuban cigars I
mean or you know it was a fine I guess
if you recall with those on your on in
there and so what happened is at O'Hare
Airport when I was an agent in Chicago
people would go on vacation to you know
Columbia or Venezuela or some vacation
and buy Cuban cigars CU it's perfectly
legal down there to buy it and they
would bring it back to Chicago with them
no big deal if you were caught with it
it'd be like a $100 fine if you got
caught in your bag search but what often
happen with these Chicago Fat Cats
exactly the type of people who would get
Cuban cigars is that they would tell the
the Customs guy you're not allowed to
have these and I got a righteous
citation many people would offer the
Customs person a bribe anything I can
give you to make it go away and Customs
guys were ordered to look over look over
their shoulder to the left look over
their shoulder to the right and say come
with me and they take him to this they
take him to the room right and he goes
all right what what do you got what what
do you want what were you saying he goes
you know you let me keep the cigars like
you know I'll give you 50 bucks 100
bucks whatever and he's like all right
so you're telling me that if I give you
this cig if I let you keep these cigars
you're going to give me 50 100 bucks
cash and the people are like yeah and uh
and he the reason he brought them to the
room is that was the room where they
would be videoed and audio and then
those people were arrested for offering
a bribe to a federal agent at the
airport that's so horrible hor it was
just like an sop thing you can count on
like every week or two somebody being
like being brought to the video room
because they offered a bribe uh you know
after their golf trip but uh you were
talking earlier about transferring air
some poor guy IM you're like a you're
like a dentist or something yeah it's
always that guy right some guy he's a
he's he's a stock options Trader on the
board you know Chicago Board options
exchange and uh yeah he wanted to have
his cigars but especially in Chicago
where everyone's bribing everyone there
it's just kind of the nature of the
Beast and so but I want to talk to you a
little about transferring from a prison
to prison because were you familiar with
a program that the Bureau of Prisons had
where for kind of low-risk minimum
security prisoners they would actually
cut them loose on Furlow to take a
Greyhound bus from prison to prison so
they're not taking up a space on Conair
you ever heard of this mhm um my uh my
wife was released
from you know I should know she's talked
about it enough times uh Virginia or
something I forget where she was in some
prison and they put her on no no that's
right no no she was she was so she was
whatever Virginia anyway she they put
her on a her and three or four other
girls they put them on a Greyhound and
they went through I want to say they
went through whatever they came all the
way down here to col mhm to the low so
you have to be at a at a camp custody
you have to be out with it's called out
custody so they put him on they gave him
gave them vouchers and some money to eat
they civilian clothing or were they in
their like prison jumpsuits no they're
they're like in prison jump I think they
were in prison jumpsuits they're like
prison well not jumpsuits you have you
have they you either they're in khakis
top and bottom yeah yeah um and so yeah
they they put them on the bus and they
drove all the way down they were allowed
at one point they get off the bus they
get some food they get back on they it's
like You' got to be here and yeah they
right and they meet you at the bus when
you arrive pick them up and bring them
to the prison yeah I had a guy named
Perry Griggs I told his story on my
first appearance here I think maybe it's
my second one and uh he was one of those
guys one of those Camp guys but he's
also a very accomplished con artist you
know the type and uh and he was going
from like El Paso to I can't remember
where somewhere really far like a like a
4day trip on Greyhound bus and so they
cut him loose and uh and he you know had
his prison outfit on and they dropped
off of the Greyhound bus station they're
like all right Perry we we'll be at
there four days ahead well you we'll be
meeting you at the bus don't do anything
stupid and Perry had done a very
successful Ponzi scheme I won't bore you
with the details of that today and had a
lot of money while he was in prison or
his his wife did and so as soon as the
the Bop guys were out of sight the wife
came picked him up and they rented a
private jet like a Lear jet for this
4day period to go like back they went to
Vegas partied it up had sex on the plane
um had like the time of their lives like
you know partying for the entire weekend
and then like 45 minutes before they
were supposed to be at the Greyhound bus
station they brought per they brought
Perry there to the Greyhound bus station
to wait for the Bop guys to arrive and
he got in there and uh and uh and went
about his business so he how did you had
they how do he get caught how do you
know this I know this because uh he
later became a fugitive I arrested him
for a Ponzi scheme he had committed
while inside the prison it's a whole
other story my God yeah and uh he was
ripping off people from Hawaii he and
his wife were ripping off people while
he was in prison he told people he was
this like billionaire Bond Trader or
something like that and um and so when
as we were piecing together kind of what
happened and where he was spending the
money I was seeing you he paid a Lear
jet he basically chartered a jet for the
weekend while he's in prison and we
pieced it together that that was the
window of time that he was allegedly on
a Greyhound bus and then you know the
pilot and the and everyone else you know
told us exactly how it all went
down yeah not bad not bad exactly So
speaking of airplanes I wanted to shift
gears and talk about the um briefly the
911 attacks and the creation of TSA and
some of the stories surrounding that so
9911 attacks happened 2001 I was in
Chicago on a bank fraud Squad I get
moved over and everyone just kind of
drops everything when the planes start
flying into buildings and one of the
jobs we had in Chicago which is where
United Airlines is to figure out on
night one who were the terrorists right
cuz we didn't you know we knew planes
were flying into buildings and we have
these flight manifests you know with
whatever a couple hundred names on it
and um it wasn't just like pick out the
Muslims you know he had to take a look
at every single person who was on that
flight it would be for
me well well we we approach these things
with an open mind and uh and but you
know but that's kind of how it ended up
turning out is that you know Muhammad at
like you know where was he most recently
he was at a flight school and uh and you
know and this is a guy you know the CIA
tells us that this guy was training at
an Al-Qaeda training camp and and and
and so you're kind of putting put him
that in this list yes right you're
creating two piles of people like you
know the the dentist from De Mo goes in
this pile is a is a a deceased victim
and everyone else go goes there so that
was kind of an interesting experience
for me to kind of see how that sausage
is made from inside the FBI when there's
an act of terrorism and to figure out
who decided to do this and uh or in this
case many people so the TSA gets in
people don't remember this but the TSA
was not up and running them before that
airport security was done by where they
were employees of the airport making
minimum wage and they weren't always the
most Vigilant um people there it wasn't
a government job to screen back then it
was just something that it was a job you
would get at the airport I work at
O'Hare Airport I screen luggage and I I
screen people and it was really lack
aasal like you didn't have to be James
like sometimes they would catch the
switchblade in your bag sometimes you
could fly on with like you know 20 box
cutters and uh and so and no one was
really paying Too Close of attention and
then they decide to make this government
agency TSA but there was this window of
time before TSA was stood up because
hiring government employees takes time
they're doing background checks on the
people who were the TSA screeners and
all that that they had like the military
there they had guys in like camouflage
with like M4 machine guns standing there
at at security and um remember that that
was kind shocking the whole thing was
very shocking right and um and so there
was a window of time before TSA was
stood up where they um they had a at the
right at the end of the Jet Bridge when
before you would Bard the
they had a uh what do you call it like a
shower curtain there and they would grab
random people and pull them behind the
shower curtain for like a secondary
screening before they got on the plane
it was supposed to be random and uh and
so I'm flying armed quite a bit after
this window of time because I'm bouncing
around on a counterterrorism squad you
know flying back and forth the
headquarters and other places and they
um and they and there was a window of
time I feel like it was like a one month
window a time where they were absolutely
obsessed with the idea of you bringing
tweezers and nail clippers on planes
like they were they would pull you
behind the um you know they would ask
you like you know do you have any
tweezers or nail clippers or anything
like that I guess they were worried that
someone was going to do something with a
tweezer or a nail clipper and so and
they there was no reconciling for them
who the guy was with the gun and who
they were pulling behind the curtain
right before you step on the plane for a
secondary screening so I get pulled over
for a secondary screening behind the
curtain and and they go do you have any
tweezers or nail clippers and I go don't
I go yeah that's I saying go I'm an FBI
agent here's my credentials I'm carrying
a weapon I got aun gun on my hip and
they take a look at my credentials and
my paperwork and they're like okay but
do you have any tweezers or nail
clippers they were so focused on that
one mission of finding the person with
the tweezers and nail clippers that it
didn't even matter that I had a gun on
my head I said listen if if I'm going to
do something horrible to the passengers
of this plane I'm not going to be using
my nail clippers and
tweezers so I want to segue and kind of
even go back further you ever heard the
term social
contagion I no nowadays we kind of call
it going viral but a sociology doesn't
use those terms in sociology they have
this term social contagion um it'd be
like Panic buying like the this is an
idea or a behavior that go yeah like
exactly like like it's there's there's a
hurricane that has a 20% chance of
striking like Miami and and then
everyone in Jacksonville and Tampa are
buying all the bread milk and toilet
paper they can and the reason they're
doing it is not because they're watching
the news but because their neighbors are
do it right it's it's and that's the I
would argue that the BLM protests were
were kind of a social contagion it was
something that happened people got on
the streets and started protesting and
the fact that people were doing it with
social media now as an amplifier got
more people out in the streets kind of
protesting either because they truly
felt this or because they're looking for
trouble on the streets um conspiracy
theories are a great idea of social
contagion the 911 being an inside job or
the faking of the moon landing these
things spread among people and they go
and these ideas go viral and so what I
wanted the reason I'm talking about a
social contagion is because I want to
talk about a very specific one called
skyjacking what year were you
born
1969 okay I was born in 1970 so we're
roughly the same age High School class
of 88 yeah yeah same here because I
failed
right I didn't want to bring that up mad
but it's in your permanent record so we
can talk about it so in the years right
around the time we were born 1968 to
1972 the US was suffering from an
epidemic of Sky jackings there were
under over
130 hijackings of commercial airline
flights in US airspace during that
window of time sometimes it was one
every week sometimes multiple Sky
jackings happened on the same day MH do
you have any recollection of this or
even the aftermath of this kind of
growing up um the only thing I remember
is um DB Cooper right well DB Cooper is
a perfect example of a skyjacking at the
time where he takes over the airplane in
the air I think with a gun and uh and he
ex no no gun bomb well threat threatened
a bomb or did he have a bomb do we know
no no he opened up his suitcase and he
had it it certainly looked like it
looked like a bunch of dynamite with a
bunch of you know like it the woman the
the air the um seus was like it looked
like a bomb right it was Portland Oregon
I believe and I think they uh and so at
some point though he gets a bunch of
cash on the plane were they transporting
Bank cash on it or something like that
and then parachutes out with the cash
never to be seen or heard from
again am I remembering this correctly I
mean you're doing about as good of a job
as the uh as the FBI did to catching
them right because it remains an open
case and a mystery to this very day who
he was and every now and then some news
story percolates up was this guy DB
Cooper and it never really gets solved
well I mean he what he actually did was
he he got on the plane it was half empty
flight they get up there he asks the
stewardess to come back he hands her he
orders like a Jack and Coke or something
he hands her um a a note and she said
she was very pretty and she was like
guys were always handing me notes she
didn't even look at it she goes back and
I think after a little bit she still he
sees her still you know getting people
food and whatever you know whatever
drinks so I think he comes back and he
says you need to look at the note and
she opens up the note and it says you
know this is a hijacking yeah and so you
know tell the pilot blah blah blah so
she tells the pilot she comes back he
actually has cards written
up from that a pilot would have that
tell you like where to go what what to
set the dials at like it's he gives her
gives her cards so that's what they
think he had pilot experience he was as
a pilot she goes back these are things
that they have they never reveal right
away yeah so but since it's so old
they've like said thrown everything out
there she goes back shows the pilot
basically says you have to land so they
first they call in he wants $200,000 I
think it's like
$200,000 and they land they unload
everybody off the plane except for like
the pilot co-pilot and I think one or
two of the
stewardesses um and he does at that
before he even lands like she kind of is
like come on is this serious and he's
like opens the his briefcase and see
he's like it's serious she said he rre
of smoke I think he did smoke everybody
everybody did yeah but on the plane yeah
he was smoking on the plane and he
showed her the thing she said he kind of
rre of it very very overly polite she
said yeah um anyway they land they let
everybody El nobody even knows this has
happened they just know they landed that
a lot of people when they got off oh I
see they actually thought they had
gotten because he never stands up and
makes some like Grand gesture and when
they land people are getting off and
people are some people who knew the
airport they were supposed to land at
are like Hey we're not at such and such
other people think they're destination
like as they get off and they're coming
in and they're talking to them they're
like what are you talking they're like
no no no you've been you've been you
know rerouted yeah anyway they take back
off and he says tells them to go to like
Mexico City or something right and they
tell them look we can't go to Mexico
City we don't have enough fuel and he's
like [ __ ] so he then says come back she
comes back and then he's got another
city that's basically on the same thing
track right okay so he's really just
trying to get him to go that way CU he
knows it he's going to jump out at a
certain point probably has a vehicle
something in that area he knows he's got
it all down same thing oh they also he
he requested the 200,000 he requested
three parachutes they gave him three
parachutes one of the parachutes was um
was a test parachute that didn't have an
ex a a backup rip cord oh backup so he
ends up cutting away he gets the money
he wraps it in the parachutes he cuts a
bunch of cords from the other parachutes
ties it up cuz he doesn't want them
knowing he's jumping he really thought
this through yeah he he gave enough
parachutes for everybody to jump right
like so I think there's must be four
three or four he ties it all up into a
drop like a drop thing right so he's got
it the money tied up and he's got it
tied around his waist so he's got all
the thread or the cords and everything
and then that particular plane was the
only plane flying at the time where they
had a rear staircase oh okay and so
while they're flying he tells them of
course to to lower it go to fly at this
altitude this way you know they're like
it's weird but whatever he's got a bomb
so they're doing it so then he pulls the
pins as they're
flying the staircase goes down he gums
out and he jumps they know when he
jumps because they because when he jumps
the staircase they can hear it so one
they know when it opens cuz they get the
an indicator light beep beep beep beep
when he jumps they know it because bam
it the the the stair stair thing when
he's the weight of a diving board right
when he jumps it slams back up MH so
then the woman goes back and she says
okay he's he's gone he
lands they believe you know it was
always said like oh he must have landed
in the river but what happened was he
landed somewhere I believe he made it I
watched enough programs on this yeah so
one he lands and they he take some of
the money not a lot it's like $5,000
and he throws it on the shore now they
say oh it must have washed up really I
think he threw it on the shore and
because a little kid 12 years later or
something or eight years later finds
several little bundles and it's not much
it's 3500 bucks five grand whatever it's
not a lot he did what you did at the
airport left a false clue behind right
and he he leaves so here's the
thing a few months later maybe six
months later another line is hijacked
very
similar that guy they tracked down he
looked very similar to Dan Cooper they
track him and another guy I think it was
another guy down to a motel they have a
a standoff and I believe he either shot
himself or he came out and it was kind
of like by by a cop and he get killed
for some reason the police or the FBI
has discounted him for some reason
reason but some people say it's not the
case and that guy also was a helicopter
pilot yeah so seems like a good suspect
right but for some reason they couldn't
connect him or somebody that they didn't
get like the steward said absolutely not
him that sort of thing where they said
no can't be him it was just cuz like you
said it was a rash yeah happening was a
ton I think it probably was him okay
interesting cuz they never found him
they never there's all these people oh
it's this guy died and said this it's
such a romantic story right cuz it's
such a Brazen thing pulled off right me
being a criminal I want to believe he
got away but I I can't imagine it's kind
of like the guys that escaped um from
the the alcat Alcatraz like those guys
drowned you know the idea that I want to
say it was three guys the idea that
three career criminals escaped went out
and got jobs lived the rest of their
lives and never got caught never did
anything else again to come in contact
with the police it's it's just not
possible hell of a swim you ever been
Alcatraz yeah I have hell of first of
all you didn't you didn't make that swim
it's freezing cold it's choppy water on
the best day there are sharks you didn't
make it even if you that's why there's
that's why they put it there right even
if you did as any of those guys you get
caught within six months robbing a bank
doing something stupid like none of
these guys they they didn't all go get
jobs in factories MH the only thing they
were career criminals they were always
going to be career criminals they'd all
been in and out of prison they didn't
get out and go clean or go straight they
didn't do it yeah but these modern day
folk tales are so interesting it is it's
great I want to believe that that's what
they did I want to believe that the guy
got a facty job and he now he he end up
being a manager he met some cute girl he
had some kids and he got away with it I
want to believe that yeah he got caught
jerking off on an airplane years later
how embarrassing yeah anyway we got 130
of these guys and as you pointed out
from the DB Cooper story they were not
911 style militants at all right they
were really they fell into two
categories um people who were most of
them wanted to be flown to Cuba really
yeah and so what was happening is a lot
of them were um were again this is 1968
to 1972 or 73 Castro had taken over by
then yeah okay Castro's Cuba these were
kind of like a lot of them were like
leftwing hippies right this is the
Vietnam era kind of the hippie era
Woodstock and all that and they wanted
to go live in the Socialist Paradise of
Cuba and this was the way they were
going to do it cast I wish I wish they
would have all made it Castro for this
part though was like bring it and so
what happen is and he gets an airplane
right this is where I'm going with this
okay and so they would fly they you know
they the air it became so common again
130 times over four years just think of
the magnitude of that multiple times a
week sometimes once a week at sometimes
over a couple a day where it happened
and so the FBI and the police were just
had were routine so what happened is fly
us to Cuba you know we I have a I have a
bomb you know they didn't have a bomb
they would pretend they'd fly to Cuba um
and castra would grant them Asylum set
them up in a little one-bedroom
apartment there thank thank them very
much for their service to uh to Cuba
Castro would then have the plane they
would arrange for all these passengers
who were brought along for the ride to
get a free ride back to Miami or
wherever then Castro would hold on to
the plane though and he would sell it
back to United Airlines PanAm or
American Airlines or whatever for about
30,000 bucks or to 50,000 bucks and it
was a fantastic source of revenue for
him other one other people are these
aren't making it all of these are making
it yeah 100 already made it or some of
them not all of them went to Cuba there
were a lot of there were a lot of Ransom
ones as well like like DB Cooper but not
as well planned out and those are the
people who had a much tougher time right
the because they they or some some of
them would get the ransom and then go to
um and then go to Cuba some had other
plans some were shot in the head so you
know so there was any number of things
happening here but I guess for me what
was interesting is the idea of the
social contagion of this contagion this
was happened a couple times the media
reports breathlessly about it you the
these kind of crazy dramatic stories you
know filming people like filing off the
plane or on the tarmac and all that and
then other people get the idea and it
spreads like a social contagion it was
cut off all at once and they stopped it
in its tracks and you know how they did
that I don't know they started searching
in these guys getting on the plane
exactly exactly they they they get can
you imagine they you just walked on a
plane that it was like we're getting on
a Greyhound bus they weren't x-raying
your luggage they weren't x-raying you
you weren't going through a metal
detector it was like a Greyhound bus and
then they put in Pro you know basic you
know nothing compared to what we have
today but basic security procedures
x-raying the bags um you know metal
detector for the people and the social
contagion stopped because they hardened
the
targets right and so I looked at another
social contagion that we're still
dealing with today school shootings
right okay you had Coline and then like
you know the next thousand of them were
like Coline copycats where they're
trying to up up one another and the kids
get their names in the paper and there's
all these movements I just wonder and we
can talk about it or not but what can we
do to the schools to harden the targets
using this airplane example as you know
a social contagion that was a huge
problem that stopped in its tracks by
hardening the target what can be done to
the schools or should we do you have
thoughts or do you
care so what so how I'm I'm I'm curious
how did the uh how did I become the bad
guy no no no I want to hear you no care
you're the
guy you're the guy I respect whose
opinion I want to hear you're my buddy
well what do you think Co you're the
smart guy in the how they stop it on the
airlines they started searching the they
started they started x-raying your bags
and x-raying and metal detecting the
people yeah making the target just hard
already before you could just Walts on
board with anything you wanted to on the
plane they're not even iding you
basically write your name down like
that's the thing with DB Cooper like
they never saw an ID or anything they
just you bought your ticket and that's
it you wrote they you you know they
wrote your name in a manifest and that
was it um yeah I mean there's there's
you
know you know who knows kids are so
[ __ ] up I would yeah mean scanning
them but I feel like sometimes I don't
know how often it is but sometimes it's
like not even like the one in Tennessee
or Nashville it wasn't even it was like
an ex- student older student that just
walked straight into the you know fac
right I mean I guess you put put
officers in yeah you don't really expect
an answer put put officers in there in
there right that's all what can you do
like just make it you know metal you can
do metal detectors yeah they do that
already and there're still you know a
lot of places like in New York and these
big cities they have metal detectors
like I don't know if it's stopping you
know it's an interesting thought
experiment is what I'm saying that we
can draw from the experience of the
airlines a side effect to this whole
thing is that's where they invented the
sky Marshals which are now known as the
Air Marshals that that came from that
era the idea of putting putting you know
undercover officers to whose job were to
do nothing but fly on an airplane from
place to place in hopes of stopping a
skyjacking and um and then you know I
think the sky Marshals kind of fell by
the wayside over time and became the Air
Marshals a kind of were resurrected as
Air Marshals after the 911 attacks that
job's got a thck I knew I knew an FBI
agent who was an Air Marshall and uh and
I go is it kind of awesome like
everyone's like you know you get to see
the world he goes no you wake up in the
morning morning you fly from you know
you you you fly from Chicago to
Washington DC and then you go have lunch
and then you fly from Washington DC to
Chicago and then you go back and I go I
don't know you're kind of like a
celebrity with the flight attendants
they go the flight attendants hate you
because you're not a revenue passenger
you have they you know they're seated in
pretty good seats and that and that's a
seat that they want to be able to sell
and to keep the airlines of flat and all
that but now they're they're required by
the law to have a certain number of
dudes on board and those dudes the Air
Marshals my understanding is that
they're not there for the passenger
jerking off or the guy who's um you know
mouthing off or throws a drink at the
flight attendant because he had an
ambient they're there solely to stop the
terrorist attack right and there's a
theory among the Air Marshals that when
everybody was thinking about what's
Al-Qaeda going to do next for the next
strike is that there would be some kind
of incident on an airplane that would
kind of reveal who the Air Marshals were
and so the Air Marshals were really
disciplined about kind of staying put
and just protecting the cockpit and uh
and so um you know people are getting
like fist fights on planes while the Air
Marshals are like looking at Readers
Digest
Magazine yeah I mean again somebody
should do something about that yeah but
it's it's I think the uh the guy I knew
who was a former Air Marshal who became
an FBI agent was a big muscle man and I
it looks like you really kept in great
shape and he he kind of had to because
if you're sitting on your Duff for eight
hours a day just flying back and forth
between two cities you got nothing to do
but sit and eat I would think that would
be something like a job that you would
take like hey you have this duty but
it's like a year like you can't do that
for 5 years you people would quit it's a
20- year career for these guys are you
serious look at the pension it's the
government pensions 20 years of just
flying back and forth back oh [ __ ] oh no
I didn't I'm not doing it but guys do it
yeah that that's insane and you don't
get to keep your airline miles that was
another question I get do you get
frequent flyer miles he goes
no but what's interesting about Airline
Security in the procedures that they
have when I think about this is that
they always seem to be chased faing the
last attack you know they they don't do
a whole lot in my opinion as a frequent
flyer of looking at like what the next
attack is going to be they're not
proactive right take look that Richard
Reed guy the guy the shoe bomber
remember himid a cockamamy scam right he
packs a bunch of explosives in his Air
Jordans or whatever his reox and he like
takes them off and he's trying to like
light them with fire and like a
hairbrain plan I don't know if it would
have worked or not or what the level of
explosion he was a french guy I think
you know or from France I think it was
Algerian or something like that they
arrest him and then now for 20 years
we're taking our shoes off to go have
them screen before we get on an airplane
yeah you know because of one Joker yeah
they couldn't even pull it off I think
the explosives required like a um an an
energy charge or something it was
something like you can't even like the
thing you can't even they can't even you
can't even ignite them with fire like it
has to be like a battery you know I
think back to um December 21 1988 I went
to Clemson University my best friend
from high school went to Syracuse
University and so we got out of school a
couple days uh earlier and my buddy's
like hey my why don't you drive up from
Clemson to Syracuse I lived in
Washington DC pick me up and then we'll
uh we'll go and we'll we'll party we'll
get laid in Syracuse it's going to be
fantastic and I was like well I can't
get late in Clemson so maybe I'll better
luck at Syracuse and so so I drive up to
Syracuse with another friend pick him up
along the way we we get there it's
December 21 1988 I think it was a Friday
and we're looking to go out and party
we're going to meet some girlss it's
going to be fantastic and that was the
day that PanAm flight 103 exploded over
Locker B Scotland filled with Syracuse
students who were coming back from their
like semester abroad in
Scotland and uh this do you remember
that tragedy or I remember it very
specifically I especially remember the
the photograph of the portion of the
plane that was still slightly intact on
side it was crazy I mean so I mean
selfishly instead of going out and
meeting girls I to attend like like
vigils and stuff like that the whole the
whole campus was traumatized because
everybody knew somebody who was on that
plane uh but it's an interesting story
about like how the bomb got on board it
was it was got on board it was a someone
checked a bag from Malta uh the island
of Malta that's where the plane had been
a couple stops earlier when it was
unaccompanied baggage you were able to
back in those days with Airline security
again this 1988 put a bag check a bag
onto a plane to go onto a flight if you
didn't have a ticket that's not
absolutely nuts and uh and there was a
cassette recorder Colby that's what they
had before uh DS and uh that was packed
with explosives on board and and and a
seex was the explosive and it was it was
a um it had a what do you call like a
barium switch basically it had this
really sophisticated switch that when it
got up to a certain um certain altitude
it then set off the timer like you know
an 18- hour timer the plane got went up
and down and up and down with that bag
on it and on you know on its way back to
the US and then when the timer went off
it was over Locker B Scotland exploded
the plane uh with the the radio cassette
player in there um 38 minutes after
takeoff at 31,000 ft it exploded 259
people all dead it was absolutely
terrible and uh and it killed 11 people
who were just on the ground with the
plane falling on their heads do you
remember who did
it no it was Libya it was momar Gaddafi
of Libya
actually like commissioned this sent two
intelligence agents to kind of build
this device and uh in retaliation for
President Reagan who had like bombed the
um you know his compound and killed his
two kids or President Reagan I think
yeah from a few years earlier remember
and he happened to be he happened to be
sleeping in a tent yeah out in the
backyard it's like a crazy thing and uh
he was nuts Omar Gaddafi was nuts right
but again back in those days there was
no screening whatsoever of of of of uh
of suitcases you know suitcases were
never searched or screened who were in
The checked luggage and I if you
remember for years later and even to
this day the flight attendants were
really focused on asking you did you
pack your own luggage and so it all came
from that lockerby Scotland that's was
it because again we're always chasing
the last incident as opposed to looking
forward to the next one little uh epilog
in 2003 Libya accepted responsibility
for that uh for that attack and paid 2.7
billion dollar in compensation to the
victim surviving family members wow yeah
what do you think happens to these
people that go viral for just freaking
out on the planes like yelling scream a
lot of those are I I I well I mean I was
going to say I actually saw something
that showed that these were people that
were renting or they had half of a plane
built in a stud you remember we talked
about the one where they have the where
they have the um they have the high
price like a jet that's built but they
actually have one that it looks like a
the inside of you can kind of film a bit
right right and then so it's a whole
thing that they do there and that's why
they're trying to but obviously there's
some that are real to be clear people
are still behaving very poorly on
airplanes some are true some are yeah
the lighting is just not as good on the
the real ones yeah but anyway I've been
on your show so many times and I've kind
of told all the stories of any interest
from my own career that I I just want to
thank you for letting me come on to kind
of tell stories thematically because
that's what I do every day on my social
media right as I tell stories so I'm
able to kind of go through and out a
bunch of airplane stories and tell the
long form version of that with you so
thanks so much for having me on yeah
speaking of social media Tik Tok with a
recent almost Tik Tok ban what do you
think is going to happen and how does
how how was that 12 hours for you
offline it was bad okay so it was bad
because that's when I got the that's
that's when he sent this text this
panicked text listen I was thinking
maybe I should come by and
no a couple hours for sake yeah no it
was bad I mean listen you know my Tik
Tok I have follow I have 10 and
something thousand on Tik Tok and a
couple hundred thousand on Instagram so
you would be cutting my audience into a
third cutting a third off the top and uh
and I use Tik Tok and Instagram and
Linkedin and to a much lesser extent
YouTube to Market my private
investigative practice so while I have
no real inside information or opinion
about the threat that Tik Tok actually
posed from China to the US it just
wasn't my area of expertise as a
interested party I was panicking do you
know what I did not expect though is
that cap cut which is how I edit my
little videos that I post every morning
is owned by bite dance who owns Tik Tok
so when they took down Tik Tok for that
12-h hour period all of my videos which
are now stored in the cloud for cap cut
U for reposting purposes and whatnot was
also done I could not edit or access
videos on capcut so I panicked and then
I realized there's such a thing as vpns
and so I got a VPN on my phone which
created the illusion I was in Amsterdam
so I could continue accessing my content
and eding video editing videos Colby as
far as what's going to happen I really
have no idea I mean Trump I think did a
real favor for himself with young people
by um by kind of postponing the Tik Tock
ban for 90 days um I can't imagine that
this is a priority in his presidency
after with everything else he's got
going on so I suspect that maybe the
whole thing will just blow over I'm
certainly hoping so based on my own
selfish reasons yeah I was going to say
I it's only it's 90 days it's gonna
eventually lapse right like I me the
whole the whole goal is to get them to
sell it to some other Corporation right
like sell this like my understanding
because I was following the story pretty
closely is that bite dance says that
listen just selling the company doesn't
mean much because it's so in our
algorithms and all that are so
intertwined with what we do here and so
we you know and so we can't just like
sell you the tick the name the URL Tik
tock.com and have you kind of take off
with it because everything are the
algorithm is the thing with Tik Tok it's
that if you if you're interested in tap
dancing you're going to see a lot of tap
dancing videos if you're interested in
books you're going to see a lot of book
videos and so they say that that's not
something that can easily be recreated
by just selling the company and they're
not willing to give their algorithms
away probably for perhaps for nefarious
reasons so I don't know what's going to
happen I mean I think it's a Fool's
errand to predict what president Trump's
going to do because he's an impulsive
guy and he um you know and he he he
thinks differently than other
politicians what do you think you have a
theory let it stay we need it yeah oh
yeah I need it too yeah mean how many
you got a ton of followers on Tik Tok
right I don't really have much of a
theory other than that's you know that's
what I'm pulling for to keep it yeah
we're trying to uh yeah I was going to
say there's other algorithms you could
somebody could I think somebody could
come and buy it use their own Al they
could say we're sell you everything but
the algorithm and I think that somebody
I mean let's face it Facebook uh
Instagram um uh what is it um X like
they all have an algorithm like you'll
figure you can figure out an algorith
feels like a natural for Elon mus
I was going to say but you know how much
is this guy going yeah we need him to
put us in Mars we you know he should be
other problem right he shouldn't be
looking for Isis beheading videos on Tik
Tok he should be putting us on Mars he's
out there kicking in towards the
government buildings right now like I
want to see all the checks are cut you
know he's he's doing [ __ ] right now do
you do you think FBI agents now I mean
I'm assuming they are are all over
social media looking like say if you are
in your in position same position you
were 20 years ago you're searching these
people social media searching their
names
it was
ago I was an agent 20 years ago but uh
searching who so let's say you're
investigating a financial crime yeah and
they're they're probably on their Tik
toks Instagram let's yeah I'm happy to
address that yeah so absolutely I mean I
was an agent five years ago so we don't
have to go back 20 years Colby but uh
you know during the Advent of social
media I mean even going back to Myspace
I would go to each of my subjects
Myspace and begin like taking
screenshots because they're practically
confessing a lot of these people
especially the fraud people are living
like like kings you know they're you
know I know you find this hard to
believe that some people commit fraud
and then you spend that money on living
a really extravagant lifestyle and cars
and jewelry and some people like to brag
about that on social media so I met a
guy like that it's fantastic yeah it's
great evidence um that that they're
providing to the FBI so I absolutely was
it wasn't like I'm monitoring like
random people but if I have the subject
of an investigation I'm absolutely doing
a social media sweep of everything
they've ever touched um I remember a kid
that I was locked up with I've actually
talked about him before Bunny Hop he had
Bunny Hop have you heard this he had the
black guy uh had a I shouldn't say kid
he was probably 25 26 whatever but he
had a tattoo of the his name not the
most fierce street name no and he
actually got the name and I was like how
did you get the nickname bunny hop he
goes when I was a little kid he's like I
used to do the bunny hop and I was
really good at it I was like yeah not
the not the tough it doesn't really
strike fear Into the Heart of the Bloods
yeah mom used to call him Bunny Hop yeah
um and he had robbed the bank and he
went home and he took all the money and
laid on his bed and did a bunch of
selfies of him with all these this money
around him yeah but he did not take them
out of the bank rappers oh and the
rappers have some number had something
on it that basically let them know that
this was the bank there was like the
bank whatever they had a number that or
stamp or something that kind of let them
know it was from the bank not not that
the people watching it saw it but people
that knew him in his group also knew
that a bank had been robbed yeah and now
within hours you've got these pictures
on Facebook and somebody called the FBI
and said
listen I think I you guys might want to
check this out they checked it out and
then when they went to his house or down
the street or his buddy that helped rob
the bank they went and they found the
car that had been used it was stolen mhm
and one of them had left a prescription
bottle in the vehicle that also had
their name like it was just like a the
breadcrumbs were right there it's like
the equivalent of writing your bank
robber note in the back of your electric
bill exactly it just so and so yeah he
was in prison with me um but uh social
media social media yeah did them in yeah
I mean if thinking of street names I
arrested A A Gangster Disciple once
named stinky I've been using Mando's
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was his like street name and uh no Mom
it it was not his Christian name and and
I said why on Earth are you is your you
have the name stinky he goes when I was
a baby I had the stinkiest diapers and
my parents used to call me that and just
kind of
stuck like a 24y old man like you know
I'm going to go out of my way here and
say there are other yeah he just he he
just couldn't shake that
yeah well it doesn't help when you when
these guys introduce themselves as well
yeah it kind of begs the questiony
what's your name they call me Stinky
okay
well excuse
me it bothers me when I do something and
I immediately look at at Colby to see if
he's going to mark it down and he
doesn't yeah that lets me know like
going in the Highlight re really I get
it I get it uh yeah uh stinky I told you
there was a guy in prison there was a
guy named wee we and a guy named Dudu
Dudu was the [ __ ] were they roommates oh
Dudu was the [ __ ] you're go that's my
dad joke but that's true and that was
funny because the guy had told me
because I had met this guy and uh when I
first got locked up I a few months and I
go bro did you know there was a guy here
named we we he goes there's a dude that
works in a li Law Library named named
Dudu and I was like I was like yeah he's
I know we we he's a but I'll be honest
with you dooo is the [ __ ] and I was just
like I come in prison and you just s
like the worst prison dad joke was bunny
hop in that in that prison fight that
you broke up yes Bunny Hop was the guy
I'm sure Tom's never heard that story
because he doesn't listen that's right
so Bunny Hop is playing you know have
you ever first of all chess is it's a
gang it's a game of of dignity of kings
of the arist
without question have you ever seen
inmates play it no it is it's boiled all
the way down to just Street as scummy as
you can think I mean they they're like
talking [ __ ] as they're playing chess
and F you know and of course fast too
they they're they're like uh yeah I got
your [ __ ] now what you going to do they
Slide the the chest piece flight forward
and they're like uh I'm in your [ __ ]
house I'm in your house now what you
going to do now I mean it's just like oh
my God it's horrible full contact chess
God horrible so these two guys one of
them was Bunny Hop and one of's a guy
named Flo now Flo is in there by the way
for murder like he's like murdered
people he's a cartel member he's a young
kid but he's he's well maybe he's just
pushing that agenda but he was there for
like murder right some was it was that
why the what the federal charge was I
don't know but supposedly he's connected
to several murders on his case whatever
and he's there he might have been there
for drugs but there was there was the
and this is all in make gossip who
[ __ ] knows but these guys are yeah
got you are they talented chess players
have they kind of learned some of these
guys are amazing they' played forever I
there were guys I knew who had been
locked up 30 years and all they had in
their in their locker was chess books
like they they could play Four Guys 10
guys without even looking at the board
rewires the mind yeah they were amazing
they'll never get out of prison but yeah
they could play some chess so these guys
are playing chess and we're kind of
sitting there and I mean I'm right there
at the table watching them just thinking
to myself like boy what have you gotten
yourself into look at these guys and
they're mouthing off to each other
and flocko gets
upset with bunny
hop and he grabs a pen and he it wasn't
even like his pen it's like he's sitting
there the guy's mouth he's like yeah you
need watch it man you [ __ ] that I watch
[ __ ] [ __ ] I ain't watching
nothing but you just you getting your
[ __ ] you know you know and they're going
back man you better stop that [ __ ] and
they're going back and forth and Flo's
Hispanic MH bunny Hop's a black guy and
literally I think I'm almost positive
somebody's filling out their commissary
sheet and I never flocko looks over and
he goes yo man can I get that pen and
the guy goes uh he just for a second he
goes yeah and he hands it to him he
grabs it and he jumps up and stab bu off
oh no I mean d you know a couple of
times like you know and it doesn't do
much it's just a pen this but even if I
took a pen and SLA and stabbed you with
it like it's it's gouging him it's
cutting it's [ __ ] him up then they
get into a huge it's a fist fight the
whole fist fight I never forget because
so weird because they they kept hitting
the wall and they it's like they were
rolling down the wall fighting and kept
banging in the wall and slamming and hit
do Corrections Officers Pile in there at
that point to stop
everything the the movies so the the the
crush officer he's sitting at his desk
at the like kind of like a PO kind of
thing that's a little bit raised up and
he's maybe 50 80 ft away and he he yells
you know hey cut that out you guys and
you know he's screaming and I I jump up
so these guys getting this huge fight
and they're punching this and that and
then what happens is the Mexicans run
over because becomes a raal start
beating the crap out of bunny hop mhm
and I jump up and I run over and I go
hey that's enough
right yeah and they stopped look at you
no a black guy that's like 6'4 had was
in the shower walked out of the shower
naked Suds dripping off him holding his
junk and he walks up behind me like he's
about to get involved and so I scream
and you think you're having this
fantastic impact the great white savior
I actually for a moment for a moment I
actually thought to myself like wow
these guys really respect me because
they stopped and turned around they're
looking at me and I so you got all the
kind of the Mexicans like looking at me
for just a say everything stops and I
realized then you kind of realize like
the closest guy is kind of looking above
me and I turn around and it's this
massive guy and he's I remember he's
holding his junk and he's standing there
like this and I remember thinking n [ __ ]
like that he's dripping I was like I'm
too close to this guy I'm already like
he's like a foot behind me he way too
close so I turn around and walk off by
that point by that point the guards are
now the the doors are open they're
coming in they're like get in your rooms
get your C get your C everybody goes
back um goes in their cells and uh I
remember it it's funny cuz bunny up the
whole time or after it kind of stopped
before the guards are kind of swarming
in that moment he starts yelling at all
the black guys he's like damn like
because these guys beat the tar out of
them for only about 20 or 30 seconds
but start scre D going do that to me
you're gonna let them do that's how it
is you gonna let just like bro like we
stop what what do you think all from a
game of chess all from a from very
disrespectful chess I mean all these
guys are very disrespectful and and uh
yeah so did they have dominoes also
smacking the table yeah I've seen that
in action hor yeah horrible too uh the
whole thing is horrible but yeah so no
respect I I didn't get the respect that
I thought I was deserved it was very
disappointing well look at you now you I
remember the next day telling everybody
cuz these two guys are gone now the next
day I'm telling everybody at our little
table like listen you know last night
like do you realize this time they're
like yeah yeah yeah did you remember me
screaming they're like yeah yeah I said
and then they all stopped and turned
around I said do you understand for a
split second I thought that they like I
was like wow like they stopped cuz I
yelled they like respected me and
everybody that's the reaction I
got oh [ __ ] you kill
me humbling yeah yeah um it's funny the
guy that left that we did a podcast with
he came in and sat down so first of all
the the wall I told you before when I
painted this wall I for like two three
months maybe four months with Jess I was
con constantly listen I want to paint
this wall red and she's like you're not
painting the wall red we're not painting
the wall red she's like we don't we
don't own this place it's a rental we
have a we have a deposit I'm like okay
for all I have a
deposit you came in after the fact you
contributed plus one to this dance right
and and I'm like and I'll paint it she's
like no you're pain painting is nothing
for you you can do that like that takes
you 10 minutes listen I painted a wall
black upstairs at for Bosak the guy that
lived here and he moved and I've already
painted it back like he was gone what a
month and it just it's already done so I
don't have a problem pain but you know
was constantly back and forth back so
finally she's like if you want to paint
the wall fine you can paint the wall
okay so I painted the wall we have
gotten so many compliments on this wall
and the guy that came here just before
you sat down and he said listen he I
want to let you know he he your podcast
is so professional and it looks it's a
beautiful set thank you I've always
liked it I've said it the first time I
came I saw it that was one of the
reasons why I wanted to come here and do
the show is because it looked
fantastic right yeah and uh yeah and
that's what we got in the black shirt
controversy cuz I wanted to make sure I
I I looked Vis cuz you've taken all this
time to build out this beautiful Studio
I wanted to look uh I wanted to be
visually appealing to I misrepresented
oh don't get start exchange yeah yeah
yeah and then I misrepresented that I
apologize you made me look like an
idiot not true but okay all right that's
enough all right can we plug me oh yeah
yeah yeah what oh oh yeah the the One 2
26 wait 26 years FBI re no no no it's my
social media yeah yeah we'll do that all
right cool but but but um but now you're
um you're a licensed Florida I would say
licensed Florida private investigator
yeah I'm a private investigator in
Florida specializing in financial crimes
and frauds but I work in all 50 states
because I'm also a forensic accountant
and so I know that that's how I make a
living now I another 50 states yeah I
mean um the Florida private
investigative license has reciprocity in
seven other states but if I need to work
in Texas then I'm working as a
consultant or a forensic accountant
realistically you're not going to hire
me to follow around a cheating husband
in Texas that makes no economic sense
but you may hire me to confront the guy
who ripped you off in a Ponzi scheme and
try to get your money back for you and
so that's what I do I'm gon leave that
part in because you're gonna explain it
a lot better than Link in the
description yeah oh yeah yeah that's
fine that's fine yeah I guess in um and
and as I've said before on the show I do
social media on Tik Tok and in stagram
as a means by which to Market my private
investigative practice by telling kind
of two-minute true crime stories every
morning um in on Instagram and Tik Tok
my moniker there is Simon investigation
so if any of your followers wanted to
follow me I think there's good Synergy
between what we do and you can uh and
and those links will be in the
description box yeah thanks man I
appreciate I love coming on your show
click on it yeah your stuff comes up all
the time and I hear from so many people
um my followers and potential clients
who say I heard you on the mat I saw you
the Matt coock show and that means the
world to me that you keep having me back
so thank you as a friend I I no problem
I do have a question for you where did
you come up with the
catchphrase the be cool and be cool
where did you come up with like so I was
I asked you this before never have never
have so I was in high school and uh I
had an older I worked at a comic book
store and there was an older guy who
worked at the comic book store he used
to say be cool and I thought he was like
the coolest guy in the world he was just
like this guy was so cool and I thought
all right well I'm going to make that my
thing and so I was like 15 16 years old
and I started saying be cool to people
instead of goodbye and um and so when
and it became kind of my thing like I
mean like so much that I didn't even
hear myself saying it like you know like
you know you'd see the priest on
Christmas morning and he'd shake your
hand and say well have a merry Christmas
I go be cool father and I would just
walk away your mom ever go yeah yeah and
so and so when it came time for to begin
making these social media videos you
know ending a two minute Crime Story is
kind of difficult you want to you want
to have a definitive ending and so I
just sort of latched on to that you know
have a have a great day and be cool as
my uh my
tagline but but it's you know it's it's
a goofy thing but it's a goofy thing
that I was doing since I was a
kid what' you come up with yours mine
yeah just natural I couldn't even tell
you it's funny I didn't even think it
was a necessarily even a thing like the
whole you know when I go see you mhm
that's good uh I I I didn't even think
that would like I don't know what I
don't even know how that came about or I
just did it once and and then I started
doing cuz it is you got how do you end
it and then I the other day I was I was
in um a first watch and my wife and I
were sitting there and this guy walked I
see saw him kept glancing at me I notice
that people will do that sometimes they
glanced at me and glanced at me and as
he was and you know as he was walking by
he was looking at me he goes I love your
stuff bro and I said oh thank you and he
goes he goes see you like that and I was
like it's fun yeah and and I then that's
when I was like oh wow I said that's
kind of a thing and you know of course
my wife's like do you want the waffles I
know she's so over me the wives are
never impressed with yeah yeah I've been
recognized a couple times it's always
really gratifying yeah super I think
that's super cool um because I always
thought to myself like what a you know
sitting in laying in bed in prison
thinking about trying to pay your bills
and then to be sitting here and have
people like recognize you and stuff like
coolest [ __ ] coolest thing ever
absolutely coolest thing ever and and
here's the little thing everybody
glamorizes kind of old school like TV
shows and but what you're doing here and
to a lesser extent what I do on social
media we're reaching a larger audience
than some deep cable show on
Investigation Discovery yeah and uh and
so the idea that you and I should be
chasing that dream of going on
Investigation Discovery would actually
be a step down as far as the breadth of
our audience the only reason to do it
would be for the money and honestly and
uh but the um the idea that we as kind
of Internet true crime guys should
somehow be marginalized and be treated
as something less than those folks on
Investigation Discovery or you or any of
those other kind of True Crime things
we're pulling bigger numbers than they
are on a daily basis without question
yeah I was going to say the
um wow um I just got a buzzing in my
ears that's weird so I actually thought
something happened with the mics are you
tasting copper is there a shooting
feeling up your arm
okay um yeah I could save you live on
YouTube this could really increase my
numbers this be
good he's hoping you're giving him the
kiss of life
um so oh um oh shoot yeah I was gonna I
was thinking um what was I thinking I
don't even know what we were talking
about um how TV shows how what we do
what we do reaches bigger audience than
what they do or in traditional media who
was it we had some guy on who was
talking about going on a podcast and
getting uh you know getting a 100,000
views is worth more than getting like
get paying you know half a million
dollars to get on to get on TV and get
10 million views because the truth is
you've got a on that TV program you have
30 seconds and most people click it off
but here for doing a two-hour podcast
they get to know who you are they get
it's it's so much more um beneficial to
you and you know and it's free and
that's why I started doing social media
right I mean you and I both have the
same commodity 30 years of stories to
tell right and uh and those stories are
going to kind of tell the audience who
we are much more so than in my case a
Google ad or something like that that's
going to pop up and it wasn't until I
started telling those stories on social
media that my private investigative
agency took off
nice what was the what was the name of
the TV show real well we'll wrap it up
you can cut all this out if you want tot
um I was just thinking what was the name
of the one Bruce Willis was in it um
Moonlighting yes mhm yes yeah he was
like a con artist uh pretending to be a
private investigator was civil Shepard
yes that was his great roll it's a good
show yeah yeah it was good yeah wasted
on I haven't seen it you know what I
watched what I watched almost the entire
well or I watched probably two seasons
of it Rockford Files solid solid show
yeah yeah yeah he'd always have that
answering machine at the beginning oh it
was great it was great it's it's it's
not a you know it's it's it's not a it's
not a it's a pretty bad show but it's
not bad but I mean but you know like the
the car chases and the you know it's and
the fight scenes it's yeah we grew up
back to back with Magnum PI and Simon
and Simon right I still get old people
asking me about being a private
investigator named Simon
so ready do you know any other Tom
Simons
uh there was a guy working in the mail
room at my accounting firm who is also
Tom Simon and the I guess the the other
Tom Simon that had a significant part of
my life would be Tom Simon senior my
father okay the reason I asked that is
because the first time you came there's
this family friend of ours and this guy
has worked in DC like I never really
knew what he did but he works like I
assumed he always was like some type of
CIA or something and his name is Tom
Simon oh and uh they live in Florida now
so oh interesting yeah do you know what
he does now
I can I think he works at maybe the Air
Force Base I don't know it's a pretty I
mean it's Tom is you every Tom Dick and
Harry's named Tom and Simon's not
atypical name I remember one time some
friends of mine were at the airport and
they were in line um talking about what
an [ __ ] Tom Simon was speaking about
me and uh and and someone and this
couple turned around and they go what
are you talking about that guy was named
Tom Simon wow yeah it's funny I I've
mentioned that I've known like probably
four or five people named Mike Hayes
um and then I was uh I actually had a
guy named Matthew Cox oh yeah there's
several people obviously M but there was
actually a guy that uh my buddy Danny
who was a bartender at the time he
actually managed like three bars and he
happened to be working in the bar one
day this is when I
was um was like on the runner i' just
been or no I was on the run but there
were articles coming out constantly on
me and I'd been whatever like a year or
two and this guy gave him his uh his you
know he asked for his ID looked at it
he's like Matt Cox he huh he go that's
funny he said I grew up with a kid named
Matt Cox and Danny we grew up together
and I'm think that and he goes is he on
the run right now and he goes yeah he is
on the run right now he goes yeah ruined
my [ __ ] life that's what he did he
goes like and he goes oh really he said
yeah he said every time I go for a job
interview uh I I try and date some girl
I and he just started naming off all
these horrible things that happened so
when I got out
I got I tried to get you know Matt Cox
try to get matt. Cox you know at gmail I
ended up going with contact. matthew.
Cox and the problem is is he actually
has the he has matthew. Cox this day
he's still getting your emails he he
forwards them to me oh that's funny so
every once in while he would when I
first got out he would forward an email
because what happens is people see
contact. matthew. and they think the
contct yeah so um he would for them to
me and I was like and so one day I get
this this from you know Matt Cox saying
hey I think this is your you know I
think this is a was meant for you we
have the same you know same email except
you have contact so he said by the way
here sent it and I was like oh wow bro I
said uh I'm going to assume that you've
looked me up and I've probably cost you
some problems over the years and he came
back he said you have no idea how many
problems you have cost me over the year
I love it and I sent him back and I said
listen I would love to hear about it if
you feel if you would if you want to
talk to me about it if you want to call
me up if you want to cuss me out if you
want to tell me I'm a scumbag I said I
totally because I don't know if it's the
same guy I said I totally understand and
I am so so sorry uh that you know that
if I've cause you any problems and he
goes he goes it's fine bro I'll keep
forwarding your emails that was I don't
think we've ever and I've probably
gotten 20 emails nice of them to do that
very nice of them well for all know he
for all I know he's not foring what
percentage are you actually getting
right at this point I haven't heard from
him in years he's cashing your check
somewhere by the way there was another
guy named Matthew Cox that was texting
me they contacted me on Instagram and
said yo bro we have the same name and by
the way um he had been locked up I want
to say for steroids he had a whole
steroid like I did like five years for
steroids I this and they had all this
you know selling them I got a whole
Crime Story and I was like Bro you've
got to come on the show he's like oh my
God I want to come on the show we went
back and forth back we actually
scheduled something then he came back
he's like I can't something happened he
couldn't like Bro you've got to come on
he's like I know I do I will I will and
then I haven't heard from him since but
I have his number I should contact him
you should I mean it would have been
funny be a fun split screen they won't
know which one of use the giant muscle
man I think we're done now we're done
here all right is that it all right
thank you for coming hey you guys I hey
you guys I appreciate you watching do me
a favor hit the Subscribe button hit the
Bell so you get notified of videos just
like this also please check in the
description box we're going to put all
of all of Tom's uh links in the
description box you can go to his
Instagram Tik Tok and his uh website I'm
assuming you have a website yeah and his
website and uh contact him if you need a
private investigator thank you very much
I appreciate it see you let me do this
Kobe see you and be cool and be cool all
right real quick
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