Oh, my exes live
>> live in Texas.
>> It's electrified.
>> Your honor, we go to the same mega
church.
>> Tell me you're recording.
>> He just said you.
>> Matt, I got 12 stories for you today.
I'm going to be giving you a true crime
story ripped from the FBI headlines and
telling you exactly what happened in the
case. Some of them were cases I
investigated. Some of them are cases
other FBI agents investigated. And then
your job is to guess the sentencing. how
much sentence did this person get? How
much time are they going to prison for?
And uh within a 20% variance of the
actual sentence. And Col's going to keep
track of you. There's no curveballs
here. It's all very straightforward. And
um I'm happy to answer any questions
about uh the uh the cases as we go
along. But if you're ready, we'll hop
into the first case. There's a case that
I worked from back in my time in
Honolulu, Hawaii, where I was an FBI
agent for seven of the 26 years I was an
agent. And there was a fellow named
Scott. I'm not going to give you Scott's
last name. I could, but let's not
embarrass the poor guy. He's paid his
debt to society and he's probably trying
to move on with his life. But he was the
realtor of the year in Honolulu, a kind
of heavy-hitting realtor,
>> right?
>> And um but he also had a side hustle as
the bookkeeper for a family trust. Okay.
So, he used to
>> Okay. What? As a bookkeeper for
>> a family trust like a consider it a like
a family a wealthy family
>> and he's keeping the books. He's he's
the the Okay. Okay.
>> Exactly. Exactly. I thought I for a
second I thought book maker.
>> No. And I thought what?
>> Yeah.
>> He's gambling with the family.
>> Bookkeeper is like an accountant.
Bookmaker is like like a mobster.
>> This guy's not a mobster. He's a nice
kid.
>> It's early. I get it. Okay. So,
I want to think about when we talk about
the story, the internal control failures
that happen. The first one is that the
his employer uh he Scott would pay the
bills for the company and but his
employer it was kind of a pain in the
ass for them to uh to like get the
checks and sign it. So what they would
do is they would sign a book of blank
checks and give it to Scott
>> so bad.
>> Do you see a problem with that
procedure?
>> Yes.
>> You would I've had so many embezzlement
cases where that is the fact pattern.
>> Really? Yeah. It just seems so stupid.
Like it's so lazy.
>> It's lazy and you're trusting your
people way too much. It creates a little
problem for me because it's not really a
forgery at that point. It I mean it's a
fraud but but and so what Scott was
doing is Scott was basically write
filling out those checks and writing
them to himself.
>> No shell company. No,
>> he he had a DBA company that he wrote
some to but it was clear but some some
of them were actually written in his
name. But the good news is because good
news for Scott is that he was the
bookkeeper, right? So he was maintaining
the books. And so what he was doing is
as he would write these checks, he would
also log them in to Quickbooks or
whatever they were using to keep track
of it to falsely claim these payments as
um legitimate expenses of the family
business.
>> Right.
>> Right.
>> Okay.
>> Which is another internal control
failure. When I do consulting for
corporations talking about how to
prevent fraud, I talk about segregation
of duties. The idea there is that the
person who has control of the assets of
the company, the bank account, uh the
checkbook needs to be a different person
than the person who is recording the
transactions in the accounting records.
You separate those two things,
embezzlements get very hard.
>> Yeah. Because you start you start
needing multiple people to be involved
in the fraud. You just have one person
do it. One person's got cart blanch to
do whatever they want.
>> Right. Right. So you either hire two
people or empower one of the bosses to
say, "Listen, I'll be the one to
actually write the checks. you just
create some sort of purchase order for
me to do it and you take care of. But
they don't do that. No, a lot of
companies don't do that. I've been
consulting with a lot of doctor's
offices and dental offices and um and
they are getting ripped off left and
right because their back office lady is
just stealing money from them because
they have control of the assets of the
company and the um and the accounting
records. So, bet on them. And it's I'll
bet too like a dentist. It's funny like
a dentist or anybody in that those types
of fields, you know, like you don't want
to deal with that, you know, like like
he he wants to come in, I want to come
in and I want to be a dentist. I don't
want to have to be a I don't want to
have to run this [ __ ] place.
>> That's the problem. And and more
importantly, when you're a physician or
a dentist, you're not learning that in
physician and dentist school, right?
You're also a small business owner, you
know, of a multi-million dollar
business. Yet these uh physicians and
dentists have no experience in running a
business and so they hire the lady in
the back to be their kind of like back
office person.
>> When you're going through dental school,
you're not thinking either like I can't
wait till I have to balance the [ __ ]
books.
>> Learning root canals and nitrous oxide.
Yeah, I get it. And so um yeah, so it's
a problem for that industry, but it was
also a problem for this small uh you
know, family trust in Hawaii. Scott did
this over a hundred times over a
five-year period, but it was drips and
drabs.
>> Yeah. That doesn't seem so bad. That see
I mean I know it adds up.
>> Yeah.
>> Was like 50 grand or
>> $243,000.
>> That's I mean that's hardly drips and
that's they're all these are all in the
thousands.
>> Yeah. Over a 5year period, right? So you
know what's that
>> make it sound like that? Okay.
>> Yeah. I mean, it's like he's he's
supplementing his income to the tune of
probably 50 grand a year and uh
>> at his family trust expense. I get it.
>> At his, you know, at from his boss's
expense, his boss finally sees
something.
>> His boss, I thought it was his family
trust. No, no,
>> he worked for the Okay. It's not It's
not Scott's family. Scott is an employee
of this of a wealthy family's trust that
maintains the family's assets. There's a
lot of generational wealth in America
>> and uh it ain't Scott's generational
wealth. And uh and I hope I made that.
>> It's getting there.
At this rate it will be.
>> Yeah. Um so they stumble upon this
thing, you know, they they realize, oh,
you know, some
manager at this family trust takes a
look at it. It takes a look at the bank
records for the first time ever, starts
wondering what these expenses are and
sees these checks to Scott, calls the
FBI, it lands on my desk, right? I get
the case.
>> Uh take a look at the evidence, you
know, add it all up, drop all the checks
into a spreadsheet. Time to go visit
Scott.
Scott answers the door. I identify
myself. Got to talk to you. Sit down. An
hour later, I got a signed confession
from the kid.
>> Do Did he know immediately?
>> He knew immediately.
>> Oh,
>> he I mean, he knew he knew that this the
storm was a coming. And nice guy,
apologetic, said he had a um a business
that he was trying to kind of keep
afloat on the side. He was robbing Peter
to pay Paul. Yeah. That type of thing.
>> Yeah.
>> So, no criminal history for Scott. This
is his first rodeo. Again, he was
realtor of the year.
Um and you know and there's some
culpability of the victim from having
been so stupid to have this total lack
of internal controls. What is it three?
Uh what is the is it the the three the
trifecta where you have you have
>> necessity
>> is it necessity opportunity
>> rationalization
>> rational Yeah. Yeah. and and just I
would say justification
>> the fraud triangle the need the need for
money
>> the um the opportunity right the lack of
internal controls and then the
rationalizations that Scott tells
himself
>> yeah when with all these embezzlers
getting them to confess is the easiest
thing in the world Matt Cox because all
you have to do to them is say you
weren't really stealing the money you
were borrowing it right you were going
to put this money back once your ship
came in
>> once you did really well at the casino
and that that slot machine just paid off
for you you were going to sneak that
money back into the bank account.
They're like, "Yes, finally someone
understands me." I'll go, "I get it,
buddy. I get it, my friend." And so,
yeah. So, you basically just act super
compassionate with them and then they'll
confess to you that they actually stole
the money, but in their mind, they were
just borrowing it. Sign the confession
and uh
>> it means nothing in front of a judge.
>> The judge gives [ __ ] all about that
excuse. And
>> Oh, oh, you were borrowing.
>> Mr. Prosecutor, can we cut this?
>> Who among us? Who among us hasn't
borrowed money?
currently embezzling from the church.
>> Yeah, exactly. And and and it's just a
technicality that the that the lender
doesn't understand that they're lending
you the money.
>> So, we got So, we got Scott 100
different instances of fraud over a
five-year period, stealing $243,000,
pleads guilty, falls on his sword. How
much time you going to give this guy?
>> He's got no He's got probation. He's
going to get really, I think, three
years probation. Maybe if he got
anything
250,000
I don't know
>> I'll tell you this was 2000 this was
about
>> this is probably 2010 2011 I don't know
if because the sentencing guidelines
have changed over time
>> you want to say 6 months can we say can
I say six months
>> you can say is what you want buddy it's
your show
>> I'm going to say six months I think I
think
>> I'll tell you it is $250,000
>> it was a long period of time 250 he was
in a position of trust
>> for sure more than minimal planning.
>> Yeah.
>> I'll tell you that the victim came and
gave an impassioned
speech to the judge about the uh about
trust and the violation of trust that
took place and how they regarded him as
a member of the family and he robbed
them blind. There were little tears
rolling down people's cheeks when this
victim got up there to talk.
>> You sticking with six months Mac
I I I I honestly still think three years
but I'm going to say six months. you got
only because I'm thinking about the
enhancements. I'm thinking there even
though this is not sophisticated. Well,
no it is because he did have a DBA. It's
stupid but in his mind it probably was.
It most people would probably think it
was sophisticated. I think
>> he's going into QuickBooks. He's
creating false uh accounting entry. I
think there's a lot going on here.
>> Yeah. Sophisticated means
um
they used to hit people with an
enhancement for um specialty device and
what they were considering a specialty
device was a computer like you can't do
anything without a computer. I was
there. This that was not the case in
this one. But but every you know but
everything acceptant you know all you
get credit for acceptance of
responsibility that helps right.
>> Yeah. Yeah. I'm I'm going to say let's
say six months.
>> Six months. That's your final answer.
>> Probably probably three months.
>> But let's say six.
>> That's your final answer.
>> Yeah.
>> You think this guy stole a quarter
million bucks and got six months in
prison?
>> Yeah. Correct answer. Got 33 months in
prison.
>> Are you serious? For 250?
That's horrible.
>> That's quite a windfall. I
>> That's ridiculous.
>> No, you're low. You're out of your mind.
>> No, listen. I knew a guy that stole $4
million and he got four years and he was
bitching about it the whole [ __ ]
time. You stole $4 million.
>> Yeah.
>> And he did that over a period of
probably three years. And it was it was
sophisticated.
Um and he got four years.
That's ridiculous. That's I'd appeal
that. We're going to peel that.
>> Was a decade ago. This poor guy's moved
on with his life.
>> And and the process is so slow. By the
time he he he got denied, he'd be in the
halfway house.
>> Yeah. So, I can't believe that. Okay.
Sorry. Let's let's move on. Sorry.
>> All right.
>> I feel bad for him. I didn't feel bad
now. Now I feel bad. Like that's that's
a lot.
>> He was a nice kid.
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>> Metox. Do you regard yourself as an
influencer?
And I wish I didn't, but unfortunately
now
I'm probably I I probably it just seems
so silly.
>> You know, influencer sounds so silly. I
when I say
>> such a lofty name
>> when I was thinking when I when someone
says they're an influencer, my the first
thing I that pops in my head is a blonde
girl going I'm a I'm a YouTube
influencer. That's the first thing I So
it's it's not lofty. It's it's silly
>> to me. It's silliness.
>> I uh used to do a lot of work in Dubai
and Abu Dhabi. And on the weekends, I
would This is after I retired. I was
doing some consulting work out there.
And uh and I on the weekends I would go
to these um these beach clubs that they
have there, these pool clubs where you'd
go in, you pay like 30 bucks to get in,
then you sit by the pool and the and you
know, nice waiters and waitresses bring
you food all day. It's very nice.
There's music playing. It's it's like a
Las Vegas experience, but it's in Abu
Dhabi. One day I'm sitting at this one
in on Yaz Island in Abu Dhabi. It used
to be called they've called it fight
island during COVID when the UFC took
over the island and had fighting
tournaments there. And so I'm sitting
there at a beach club next to the
Hilton. It's perfect. It's beautiful.
Like the uh the Gulf of uh Arabia or the
Gulf of the Persian Gulf or Arabian
Gulf, however you want to call it,
depending on what where you are
politically,
>> um is right there. It's beautiful. And
then a bus arrives and then about 40 of
the most beautiful women you've ever
seen in your life get off this bus and
they all have their phones and their
selfie sticks. It was an influencer tour
that had come two hours from Dubai. And
these women were like hot Instagram and
Tik Tok influencers who were being
allowed to being used. They were being
allowed to use the the facilities there
at this like day club
>> and probably being paid something, but
they had to take lots of pictures and
tag the club to hype the club.
>> Of course,
>> it's ton a ton of free advertisement for
them.
>> The hottest women you ever seen in your
life, right? And uh but the entire time
they're like taking pictures of
themselves and editing it and taking
pictures of each other and like like
pretending to eat shrimp. It looked at
the most like the most miserable
experience of my life. None of them were
enjoying this facility. They were just
constantly just making content while
they're there. And uh and I thought, my
god, these influencers, every every teen
girl I meet wants to be a YouTuber or an
influencer because they see this
glamorous life, but it's all just an
illusion.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, as soon as the as soon
as the the camera's off, it's like,
yeah, they were just these miserable
women who were um who were not having a
good time, but but their entire income
was based on the idea that they need to
pretend to be having a good time, to
pretend to have this lifestyle when they
were just kind of getting off the
equivalent of a Greyhound bus after a
2-hour drive from Dubai and like then
like shuttled like cattle into this pool
area.
>> There's a woman named Daniela Rendan uh
Miami. She's a lifestyle influencer,
another amazing woman. Um and uh and she
built a really big following on
Instagram and her content was at like
the intersection of like sex and
ostentatious wealth like uh you like she
was there's shots of her in her Bentley
and shots of her in getting on private
planes and getting off private planes
and you know like I'm shopping and she
held herself out as a real estate person
for the rich and famous in Miami. She
was like a realtor to the stars down in
Miami. And so lots of tours of her like
walking through like these opulent
condominiums and stuff like that. Um and
just like living the lifestyle anybody
would want and just a beautiful
glamorous woman with a perfect body in
constantly in a bikini. Um, the reality
of the situation was that Dianiela was
actually just making $48,000 a year
selling properties in in uh the model
homes of kind of new home developments.
She was like the lady in the trailer,
>> right?
>> And and and all of this influencer
stuff, you know, with her Bentley and
all that was really just a house of
cards, an illusion.
>> All right.
>> Question is, how is she affording um
this look, right? How is she affording
this the private plane or the Bentley
which turned out to be leased? And the
answer is that she was getting
fraudulent COVID PPP loans.
You familiar with that whole phenomenon?
>> Yeah, it's there's a huge wave of it.
Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> There was there all they're all still
in, you know, they took them a couple
years to catch up with them. Next thing
you know, the all the lows in federal
prison got flooded.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so she got
$400,000 in a PPP loan with just
absolute nonsense on her application.
Completely fraudulent. And then she used
that money to get plastic surgery uh
money well spent and um and uh a Bentley
lease and a luxury apartment uh and lots
and lots of like strappy shoes. Uh
right.
>> Right.
>> And then the FBI catches up with her and
uh and busts her for this $400,000 PPP
fraud. And it becomes clear that her
whole life is just a uh a fraud itself
and an an Instagram illusion,
>> right? And um and so uh she pleads
guilty, doesn't put up much of a fight,
and then at her sentencing, she uh she
writes a 30page letter to the judge.
>> God.
>> And there was a dramatic reading at the
sentencing.
>> Oh my god. How long did that take?
>> Quite a while. And uh she tal she talked
about the idea that everyone was doing
it and it was really kind of a a think
piece on remorse.
And she said she was motivated by
insatiable greed. And I got to tell you,
Matt, the judge was moved.
>> No. Yeah, I bet he was. I bet he was
like, I'm going to give you more time to
think.
>> The judge was moved.
>> I was going to give you the low end of
the guidelines.
>> All right. So, you got the influencer,
>> right?
>> Beautiful woman, Matt.
>> Yeah.
>> Beautiful woman, Matt Cox.
>> Yeah. Okay. Well, PPP loan, that's
definitely um you're definitely going to
get more time for that because that's
definitely sophisticated means, right?
Like it's not easy. You got to fill out
the paperwork,
>> right? Right. And which she did. She
did. And uh and it's not like she was
using it to like, you know, feed her
hungry kids. Or maybe she was. I don't
know what her situation is with her
hungry kids. Um but again, she was going
to pay it back.
>> She also wrote 30 borrowed.
>> You're you're discounting the 30 pages.
>> You don't see that much, right? When you
uh when you get up to do your eleution
at the end about how sorry you are.
>> Yeah. 30 pages.
>> Um,
I mean, you've written books. I know. 30
pages is a lot of pages.
>> So, I mean, the last one was, you know,
whatever, 33 months. So,
>> apples and oranges.
>> Apples and oranges. She's an influencer.
It mean anything.
>> The judge has got to be like, "God, boy,
those."
>> But here's the question. Could she
influence the judge?
>> No. No. They are heartless
and probably disgusted by somebody who
made them sit there for an hour while
they read this thought piece on remorse
remorse and greed and going with the
crowd.
>> I told myself everyone was doing it and
at the time that made sense.
>> I mean I'm gonna go
I'm I think I think probably was it 41
months? Is that is that your guess? I
you know what I need? I need a copy of
the guidelines so that I know what the
ranges are.
>> That's what I need. I need it's not
really necessarily a cheat sheet.
>> Yeah.
>> But whatever what you know the guideline
ranges like if I had and I have that
form.
>> Well, that would be the answer to the
question.
>> No, it wouldn't be because I still have
to guess like what were the enhancements
like I I want to hear it from the gut of
Matt Cox. The soul.
[Music]
I God, it just seems so ridiculous to
give somebody four years,
but I feel like you're talking about
like we're talking about like 36 mi for
her to cooperate against I'd say maybe
36 months.
>> 36 months. Is that your guess? Or you
want to you want to it was 33. It was 33
and it was
>> this is a dec
era. It's a decade later. Um, I I I
don't want
>> She's She's You said And she's
attractive.
>> So good looking.
>> I'm going to go four years. Four. It
seems ridiculous.
>> Four years. Four years is 48 months.
>> Yeah. 48 months. That's ridiculously
long. That's It's too long for that
amount of money, but Okay. I'm going to
go 48 months.
>> 48 months is your guess.
>> Yes.
>> It's interesting because the very first
guess you had was 41 months and that's
what it was. 41 months.
>> Oh, I'm I'm almost positive that's the
low end of the guideline of one of the
ranges is 41 months.
>> It's interesting that you pulled that. I
was I I looked down to see if you were
looking at my page somehow or if I had
written it down
>> or if you watched the video that I did
on that.
>> No. How long? How long? So, how is that?
What's 20%.
>> Was what was 20% of 41?
>> Eight.
>> Eight. So, you're good. You hit it.
>> You're in the range. You did good.
>> You ever have one of those moments when
you think this could go really bad. I
remember one time when I was in the bank
and I was arrested on suspicion of bank
fraud and I found myself in front of a
couple of detectives answering questions
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do is memorize the range. I think the
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>> cheating
your show.
All right, we're on the role a role with
lifestyle influencers. Did you ever hear
of a lifestyle influencer named Anthony
Ferrer? He held himself out as the time
piece gentleman.
>> Yes. Yes.
>> We did a whole thing on him.
>> Yeah. I don't know how much time he got.
>> Was he on your show?
>> No. No. No. No. But I knew somebody who
had actually
>> We had one of the super fans on the
show.
>> Yes.
>> He had a lot of fans. He was huge. Okay.
Let me tell you the story because maybe
some of your viewers aren't into it.
35-year-old Anthony Ferrer was the time
piece gentleman and he had a lucrative
Beverly Hills business selling expensive
watches. Uh some of the watches were his
own inventory but also but he was really
making his money on consignment sales
where I would send him my expensive
Rolex and he would sell it for me in
exchange for a commission and he would
get top dollar for it because he is the
time piece gentleman. It's that's the
setup.
>> Yeah.
>> Somewhere along the line things went
sideways in this arrangement. He was
also okay. A very very popular social
media guy and he had a reality show on
YouTube.
>> Really?
>> Yeah. Like a produced reality show.
>> Oh, okay.
>> On YouTube. And a
>> I thought he was just putting out videos
himself, but okay.
>> Well, no. I mean, it was self-produced.
I mean I mean YouTube. You're on
YouTube.
>> This is a reality show.
>> His show was like Lamborghini pulling up
outside the watch store.
>> Right. Right. Right. Private planes and
all that. And you know with the with the
watches. Yeah. Complete jerk off. So
things went sideways and then Anthony
began selling watches that were given to
him on consignment and keeping all the
money for himself.
>> Right.
>> Right. And then what does he do? Then
then his people were like, "Hey, how's
what's up with my watch?" And then he
would stall for time and then eventually
he would need to pay out the guy whose
watch he actually sold and kept the
money from 6 months ago. Then he sells
someone else's watch and then takes
their money. So it really came like a
Ponzi scheme in many ways where he's
selling one person's watch to pay back
the person for a while.
>> Pretty much the definition of Ponzi
scheme pretty much. Although there is an
actual
>> there's an actual watch involved for a
lot of Ponzi scheme. There's nothing
involved. Yeah.
>> Yeah. Yeah. And um it doesn't take long
before a scheme like this just
snowballs. And again, he's got expensive
tastes himself. So he's got a lot of
overhead. Uh $3 million in watches from
20 different people. um he screwed over.
That's the net the net loss right in
this case. Again, he's got swagged out
apartments, expensive cars. He was
eating at restaurants. This was in the
charging document. He ate at a
restaurant with a $10,000 bill for a
single dinner.
>> Mhm.
>> Let's assume he had some friends with
him.
>> Yeah, let's hope so.
>> Why do you spend 10 grand?
>> I don't know. It's ridiculous.
>> Wine? It's got to be wine, right?
>> I
Yeah, it's got Yeah, it's got to be It's
got to be alcohol involved, right? Like
it's I can't imagine even if the the
steaks were 200 300 bucks a piece. How
many friends do you have?
>> I don't know that wasn't in the in the
uh the charging document but you know he
had meals that cost $10,000.
>> So you know and I I just remember this
piece just because it's such an asinine
thing for him to do. Do you remember he
actually goes on YouTube cuz it gets out
>> people are leaving comments like it's
out there that this is what's happening.
He goes on YouTube and does a video
about how he's going to pay everybody
back. Like he admits what he's done on
YouTube.
>> Government exhibit A.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> And starts talking about how he's going
to pay everybody back. And of course he
can't pay everybody back because now
everybody stops sending him watches.
They all want their stuff back.
>> So it collapses very quickly. I do not
remember how much time I do remember he
had been in prison before.
>> Oh, really? I was unaware of that.
>> So he had gotten out of prison and one
of his hustles was doing consignments
for or or watch consignments. kind of
builds up this this thing and I want to
say that somebody in prison had told him
about it
>> that like yeah I've been doing you can
make money by taking people's watches
and then advertising that
>> think you can if he had just kept the uh
the difference he probably would have
been doing just fine maybe not like you
know $10,000 dinner fine
>> no you can't blow through $3 million in
several in a year or two but he probably
could have made
>> two or 30 hundred,000 a year if you've
been willing to live on that but I also
think probably a lot of people are
attracted to the fact that they thought
he was making so much money. Um, you
know, a lot of people,
>> well, that brings in the audience, which
brings in the customers who want to buy
the watches, who want to emulate that
lifestyle. And so, yeah, there's an
argument to be made that it's important
for him to keep up that that influencer
illusion.
>> I think you can still create that
illusion without doing any of that.
Listen,
>> you can go hang out on yachts for
nothing. You know what I'm saying? You
can go get a few pictures, shoot a
[ __ ] quick video, go hang out at nice
places. You can walk into the to a hotel
um uh into the lobby of a nice hotel
with your camera and shoot. They're not
going to say anything.
>> I think there are I think there are
private like Lear jets that rent
themselves out to take pictures of you
walking on and off the jet and like
sitting there in the uh on the plane.
Then then you get off the plane, you go
back in the tarmac and then you go
inside and then you take your your your
flight on Spirit Airlines. There there
are I think there are like the insides
where they have like it's it's a a a
mockup of the inside of a Lear Jet and
you can sit there. Well, you're not even
on the L jet. You're in somebody's
basement. You're like, "Hey, I'm here."
And
>> that's a side hustle. Yeah. Exactly. For
these type of influencers.
>> I told Colobby we should at some point
set up and just make one just a bunch of
sets and rent those out. Yeah.
>> That kind of thing.
>> We have a beautiful studio here.
>> Think about it. Somebody could do their
whole podcast inside a a St. nuclear
jet.
>> We're flying to Dubai right now and Matt
Matthew Cox with Yeah.
>> Um,
>> so how much time are you going to give
Anthony? Right. He's got the criminal
history. He's got 20 victims, $3 million
and kind of
>> I think the criminal history is a big
deal. If I was a judge, I'd be like,
you're an [ __ ] Like, you know
better.
>> The law discriminates against people
with criminal histories.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> And you know, [ __ ] I hate to say this,
too. This is such a [ __ ] non
criminal mindset for me to even say I
you know because I feel I feel like if
you went to prison,
>> you know, I I feel like you did pay your
debt to society. Like it bothers me that
you go for a job interview and these
people say, "Oh, you you were arrested
for fraud. We don't want you working or
you arrested for this." That bothers me.
Like I that I'm trying to get over that
part of my life. I don't feel like that
should be out there. But
maybe for sentencing purposes, I do
think that the judge should be able to
say, "Hey, wait a minute."
>> Yeah.
>> You've been in jail three times. The
[ __ ] is wrong with you?
>> Right. Every dog gets one bite, but once
you're become a frequent flyer, that's a
problem.
>> No. Right. Exactly. I I agree. But it
does bother me that they make it so hard
to get back into society. So that so I
I'm torn on that. So, but for him
>> and he's got nobody to cooperate against
and it is sophisticated means and there
are 20 victims and he is the ring leader
and like there's all these factors.
>> I'm thinking
>> and it was 3 million.
>> Yeah. And he's blowing the money on
frivolous stuff too.
>> What's nine? What is nine years? What is
that? What's eight years?
>> 8 time 12.
>> Is that eight? What's 96? 96 months. 96
months.
>> 96 months is your guess.
>> I'm gonna go 96 months.
>> You seem pretty sure about that. You're
solid on 96 months.
>> Not when you say that.
>> Let's go 108. 108 months.
>> 108 months.
>> 108 months sentence. I don't know.
That's ridiculous amount of That's a
ridiculous amount of time. I'm going to
96. 90. Go back to 96. 96.
>> You sure?
>> It's too much time. It's too much time
even then for an [ __ ] Uh 3 million.
He's been in prison. I think he was in
prison for fraud before.
>> I I would not be
>> I thought it was a DUI or something.
>> Was it?
>> I can't remember.
>> I don't I think criminal history is
criminal history though.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You would have
Yeah. Um brings up a category.
>> Oh, I'm glad you said that. Okay. I'm
going down. I'm going down.
>> Yeah. I I want to say it was something
that was like a DUI.
>> You want You want 84 months? 84 months.
>> Really? Yes.
>> Now you're at 84 months.
>> I'm at 84. Yeah. Because I don't feel
like
>> you've been all over the place like an
EKG because it was because a DUI I I
would think that the like I thought he
had done fraud before and got out and
that to me if I was a judge I'd be like
okay but a DUI you're just a drunk. It
almost help you to my me it almost help
you. I had an alcohol problem. You could
probably use that as some kind of a
>> um extenuating circumstances like listen
I have an alcohol problem. I was an
alcoholic. I which I know you don't care
about.
>> He could have done the [ __ ] if you about
your [ __ ] drug problem. I didn't I
didn't squirt the booze in your mouth.
>> So, 84 months.
>> 84 months.
>> Yes. 84 months.
>> Final answer.
>> Yes.
>> 84 months is your final answer. The
correct answer
>> is 70 months, which you are exactly in
20% range at 84 months.
>> Nice.
>> Aren't you glad I got you off that
90month nonsense?
>> You're not helping me.
>> Yeah. I thought I remembered five years,
but yeah, it's close.
>> That's five years. That's 5 years. 10
months.
>> Yeah.
>> Uh 70 months.
>> Oh, good. Yeah,
>> I'm glad I came down.
>> Mhm.
>> Nice. All right.
>> Despite having been an FBI agent for 26
years and a private investigator for an
additional four or five years, I have no
experience and know nothing about the
industry of being a bounty hunter.
>> Do you know anything about that?
>> Yeah, we've had some bounty hunters on
it. We we've had a few bounty hunters on
here. Every every state's different.
>> Yeah. And so and in did you when you
were on the run and all that was there a
bounty hunter looking for you at any
point?
>> No, it was strictly government.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> Government.
>> You would have done better or worse.
Bounty hunters were looking for you.
>> Um
Yeah. Yeah. Could you imagine dog the
bounty hunter was after me?
>> I met that guy a couple He called me a
few times in Hawaii. Really? You know
he's a local fixture there. Yeah.
>> He had a he had like a a felony
conviction, right? Like that's why he he
never had a gun. He always walked around
with like a canister of mace or
something.
>> Yeah. He and his wife are a colorful
couple.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> And then she died and he married her
best friend.
>> Yeah.
>> And I got to say off the air.
>> Yeah.
>> Just like he is on the air, right? It
wasn't an act or if it was an act, he
was he was in it was method acting man
because he inhabited that role 24/7.
>> I always hated when he would arrest
these guys and on the way back he'd give
them like a pep talk like you can do
better brother, you can this, you know,
you you can rebuild your life. You can
say, "Come on, man. I'm I'm about to go
to jail like I don't do this right now."
>> Some Hawaiian pathetic.
>> I'm coming down off some ice. I just got
arrested.
>> Yeah, exactly. I've been breaking into
cars for a while. Yeah. So, um, so
bail bondsman, you you ever you never
got bail or anything like that, right?
>> I don't give No, when you get caught
with multiple passports, they think he
might run.
>> Yeah. So, when I arrest somebody,
>> I've been on the run for three years.
>> Yeah, I get it. So, when I arrest
somebody and they bond out, uh, again, I
have no I don't know what's happening
under the hood there. They go to some
bail bondsman who and they got to put up
10% and the bail bondsman pays the bond,
bad guy gets out of jail to await trial
and then if he takes off, the bail
bondsman loses it all. I I think it
depends on like the state um and the
federal system also has different
versions of it, but they don't typically
put up the money at all. They just
promise to put up the money. They have
like an insurance policy.
>> Okay?
>> And then they don't typically and and
the 10% is usually what they charge.
They pay different for the insurance
policy. And a lot of them don't even
charge the 10%. Like everybody thinks
like 10% that's for like if it's a
10,000 or 50 or 20. But when you get up
in these guys who have millions and
they'll negotiate like we'll put up our
house, we'll give you 5%. Like they'll
negot bondsmen will let you make
payments. You don't have the 10%. Give
me what do you have? Okay, I got $4,000.
Okay, we still owe me $4,000. And
they'll let them start making payments,
right? If they have a relationship like
you you always show up to
>> Yeah. Like I get a punch card like a
like a frequent flyer. So, but if the
and so they take off,
>> then the bail bondsman hires a bounty
hunter or has a bounty hunter working
for them.
>> One or the other. Yes.
>> Okay. And the bounty hunter goes to try
to catch them to get them back in the
system so then the uh bail bondsman
company doesn't need to forfeit that
bond that they've posted. Yes. Sort of
the
>> gist. Yeah. Or or the so that their
insurance company doesn't have to pay
the bond because then the insurance
company will jack up their rates.
>> Yeah. Okay. And then the bondsman
typically gets like if it was 8% or 5%
or 10% they they've got a percentage
like you get the 10% bond of the 100,000
you you get 10 grand if you can find
this guy.
>> Okay, Matt Cox, let's go to Louisiana.
>> Franny was arrested on some misdemeanor
charge. I don't even know what she did.
Doesn't matter. Uh local bail bondsman
posted her bail and uh Franny doesn't
show up to court, right? Okay. And so
now the bail bondsman's going to be out
some amount of money, however this whole
system works.
>> If they don't grab him, grab her.
>> The bondsman hires a New Orleans bounty
hunter named Wayne Loier to catch this
female misdemeanor fugitive.
And how much do how much do you think
that Wayne is charging to catch her if
he's successful? How much what does
Wayne get?
>> Um I was shocked by this number.
>> I can't imagine her bond was much. I
don't know.
500 bucks.
>> I was just gonna say what a 500,000 500.
How much?
>> Right. But Wayne has an opportunity to
make 500 bones. And this is pretty good
for Wayne.
>> Yeah. And I I I I have a hard time
believing she's going to be hard to
catch. Like she's like she's probably a
low-level.
>> Let's talk about this. So Wayne and his
partner gas up their rented SUV. They go
out and rent an SUV. They pack their
guns and their tasers and they start
conducting an investigation. They
quickly find out that she is probably
hiding up in Missouri. These guys are in
Louisiana.
>> Not going to Missouri for $500.
>> Oh, but Wayne is.
Wayne is. So they uh they start driving
up to Missouri from uh Louisiana. And
they have an address in Missouri that
they think she might be hiding out at.
Wayne never places a courtesy call to
local law enforcement saying that he's,
you know, going to be working in their
town. He's also not licensed in the
state of Missouri. Something. So, but
Wayne's a cowboy. Wayne lives by his own
rules, Matt. And um and so they get to
the house that they think Franny is
hiding in without warrant or consent.
They kick in the door to the house. They
go in.
>> This is all bad.
>> And they conduct a search of this
private residence in Missouri and they
start going from room to room. Franny.
Franny.
And you know what happened? They found
Franny hiding in the basement.
>> Nice.
>> Mission accomplished. They put the cuffs
on her, toss her into the SUV.
>> As long as they don't get pulled over
before they get out of Missouri. start
time to drive back to Louisiana,
>> right? Oh, okay. Yeah.
>> Right. To make their uh 500 bones. Um
they stop at a rest stop in Missouri uh
and and to let Franny use the bathroom.
And Franny is begging the gas station
attendant. Call the cops. Call the cops.
These guys aren't they're not allowed to
be doing this. They uh they can't come
up here and do this to me. and uh and
they tase her there in the actual um uh
in there to to get her to shut up and uh
and toss her back. Local police respond.
Uh but Wayne doesn't comply with them.
I'm a bounty hunter and uh and somehow
the cops like I don't even want to deal
with this and lets him go. They leave.
>> God. And so he's pushing forward like
it's time, you know? And I guess there's
some sort of reciprocity between
Louisiana and Mississippi because he
only had to get her to Mississippi and
kind of check her into a jail there. And
then I guess Louisiana, Mississippi sort
of take care of each other as far as
getting her to court.
>> Okay.
>> So he gets her to Mississippi. He
collects his 500 bucks. But there were a
lot of problems with the way this was
handled from uh from from Jump Street.
FBI ends up investigating uh Wayne and
his partner and they were charged with
interstate kidnapping.
>> Oh my god.
>> Yeah.
>> Okay.
>> Yeah. Um Wayne's partner pleads guilty
and uh and Wayne goes to trial and
loses.
>> Okay.
>> Okay. Um
I'm going to give you a hint only
because this was odd to me. They both
got the same sentence even though um
Wayne went to trial and the partner
didn't um for whatever reason. My
question though is what would that
sentence be Matt Cox for this fact
scenario about this bounty hunter kind
of operating out of the confines of his
license and maybe getting a little rough
with the girl along the way.
I unfortunately
I feel I have a law enforcement
perspective on this where I find that
law enforcement if you're a criminal
they
you don't have nearly as much sympathy
for being mishandled as a normal person.
Does that make sense? Like if I you
>> tell me what you're thinking. So if if I
arrest
if you were to arrest
a
an average Joe
>> Mhm.
>> some CPA has a regular job and and you
arrest him.
>> Mhm.
>> As opposed to arresting someone who's a
career criminal.
>> So if you get arrested
>> and they're rough with you.
>> Yeah.
>> And and then and then guess what? You're
innocent. Like you never should have
been arrested. was just a mistake on the
on the law enforcement's part. Uh I
don't really care about that that that
innocent people
>> position Matt Cox is that because Franny
was a piece of [ __ ] that he's probably
not going to serve as much time.
>> Yes. Yeah. Okay.
>> Yeah. Because I noticed that and
everybody notices that when you're in
prison, so you'll get arrested, guys get
arrested and they go to prison
>> and then their family or friends will
come and rob them blind. This happens
all the time. They rob them blind and
then they go, these guys end up in
prison and they call law enforcement and
they're like, "Hey man, I was robbed.
Like my furniture was stolen, my this,
my that. Like I got robbed for $50,000
and I know who did it." Law enforcement
like, "Yeah, that's you're some inmate.
They don't give a [ __ ]
>> It's discriminatory."
>> Um, and and so like you're you're you're
a legal victim.
>> So because she was already kind of a
jerk off and she's on the run, she's got
multiple things. Again, I feel like when
these guys go to p or go to trial,
um I kind of feel like they even though
they went to trial, which typically adds
a huge chunk to your sentence, they both
got I'm going to go like can 36 months.
>> 36 three years is your
>> Yeah. Three years.
>> Really for
the illegal search, crossing state
lines, tasing her. Um,
>> it's it's not tasing is not I granted
it's mean, but she's an she's a jerk off
and and honestly it's not she didn't
they didn't beat her up or anything. She
got you know she got tased. The maximum
sentence for interstate kidnapping is
life in prison. You understand that?
>> I understand.
>> Right. Statuto. That's a statutory
maximum.
>> I don't care about her. I mean I'm
sorry. She's an [ __ ] She
>> Wow.
>> 30 I think 36 months and they were
licensed, you know. Did they Did they do
something wrong? Yeah, but I'm licensed.
I felt like in the state of Louisiana
their license, not in Missouri,
>> but they felt like they were acting in
in furtherance of their licensing.
>> I mean, granted, these are two
knuckleheads who were like obviously
this is they really don't know.
>> So, you're not going to give them the
key to the city.
>> No, but I think 36 at most I would give
them would be 60 months at most.
>> Five years.
>> Five years. I think 36 months. Am I How
How bad am I off? I may be I feel like
I'm way off.
>> I'm not even saying you're off.
>> I feel like I'm way off. Just the look
on your face. I got a poker face, man.
I'm a good poker player. I told you
this.
>> Yeah, I know. You won 100 bucks last
night.
>> Yeah, I got 100 bucks burning a hole in
my pocket. It's going to cover the gas
money driving here.
>> Um, so what which is your answer? You're
all over the place.
>> 36
>> 36 months.
>> Yeah.
>> All right, Matt Cox. Uh, both guys were
sentenced to 10 years in prison.
>> Oh,
>> those poor guys.
>> I tried to lead you into this thing.
>> I know, but that that's not
No,
>> it's happened. The one guy plead guilty
to 10 years.
>> Yeah. And the other guy went to trial
and also got 10 years. I think the judge
is like, "You both were riding shotgun
with each other." And uh some bad
judgment along the way.
Feel like they were licensed. They, you
know, it's like it's like a cop that is
arresting somebody and gets a little bit
rough.
>> Yeah.
>> With them. Like I I feel like Yeah. You
>> And then drives through three states and
breaks into a house and then gets
>> I'm not that I'm not that worried about
that. I don't I feel like that's that
way. I feel like I'm, you know, I grew
up on Smoking the Bandit. I mean, if
you're in hot pursuit,
>> I think I have a little more compassion
for Franny than you do. This is a bad
scene for
>> I I picture Franny as being some
crackhead missing half to you, but um do
you remember that Smoking the Bandit?
Gummy.
>> Did you ever see that? Did you ever see
Smoking the Bandit? There's multiple
movies, but
>> he's pursuing the Oh gosh, what was his
name? What was the sheriff's name? Rosco
>> Pico. Rosco Pole Train.
>> Pico Col Train.
>> I'm in hot pursuit of a bandit. Oh, you
know, he's he's a he's a sheriff and
he's in hot pursuit.
>> Bert Reynolds is the bad guy. He's our
hero, right?
>> He's in hot pursuit of Bert Reynolds
>> who was driving uh like a a 6.6 L
>> a muscle car or some kind.
>> Yeah. Um Firebird or something. And I've
driven one of those before, by the way.
>> Mhm. It's this thing is it weighs it
weighs as much of a tank as a tank, but
if you hit the gas, it just burns
through the like it just I mean you're
like this is insane. This thing's
insane. I mean completely unwieldy. You
couldn't do anything but go straight in
this thing.
>> Were there sequels or there Smoking the
Bandit 2? How how many were there
Smoking the Bandit?
>> I want to say there was three.
>> Yeah, maybe.
>> Do you remember Cannonball Run?
>> Yeah, Cannibal Run was great. I I like
that. Cannonball Run was that had a cast
of thousands and Sammy Davis Jr. played
a Catholic priest. Young Jackie Chan was
in one of those, I think.
>> Great. Those were those were if you're a
15-year-old boy. Um, they're great.
Those are great. Like, you couldn't you
couldn't watch one of those.
>> Massive ensemble cast. Imagine a movie.
It was like an Oceans 11 type of thing
where like every single famous person
was in the movie. Yeah.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Uh, I was going to say they
they took that theme and turned it into
Fast and Furious and they just they
injected it with just so many steroids
that it became
>> unwatchable.
Not a Fast and Furious fan.
>> No,
>> I don't like that franchise.
>> It is a very much a testosterone fueled
franchise.
>> Matt Cox, you ever have any contact or
know anyone with the CIA?
>> Yes, I just interviewed Andrew Bamonte.
>> The Andrew Bamonte.
>> Yes.
>> Was and he was a CIA case officer.
>> He or analyst or what was he? He was in
the field.
>> Good. Yeah.
>> Excellent. Good interview.
>> Um, put some big numbers up for you. No,
no. Did horrible numbers. He's doing
huge numbers on every other show that
he's on, but horrible numbers on our He
He's He speaks.
>> So, he's not putting up the FBI numbers.
>> No, he doesn't have FBI numbers. No,
this is CIA.
>> Yeah.
>> Um kind of the JB squad, huh?
>> Yeah. Yeah. He He First of all, the hair
is insane. He's got this this this hair
that may he's like he's a he looks like
a a a
Euro, you know? He looks like a um South
American um uh we just carrot top. Oh,
really? I mean, the hair is insane. And
people in the in the comments are like,
"Bro, with your hair, what's up, man?"
Like, what's up?
>> But and he it's funny. He does great on
all these other shows. He doesn't do
great on this show, but he uh he you
know, the problem with him is he speaks
so vaguely. I mean, he's very well
spoken, smart guy, great guy. I I like
Andrew, but he speaks so it's so vague.
>> I know.
>> That there's no specifics and it gets
frustrating even talking to him. He He
can talk about a subject for five
minutes and say nothing.
>> Yeah.
>> And you're like, you've talked for five
minutes and I although it's interesting
what you're saying. I'm not quite sure
what the what the what you're saying.
>> I don't think their stuff ever gets
unclassified. Like my problem my stories
that I come here and tell you about of
cases that I've worked,
>> this is all public information.
>> It does because it comes out in court
eventually. Well, he he came to talk
about his story.
>> He's him
he and his wife met
>> during training.
>> Okay.
>> They end up getting married
>> at the farm.
>> Yeah.
>> They end up getting married and then
they actually start putting them on
assignments.
>> So, they end up writing a book and he's
like the first time we sent it in to he
said they came back and they were like
the whole thing's classified. Like this
went on for years. They finally had to
get an attorney to go in and say stop
it.
>> He's talking he and his wife are talking
about their their childhood. Yeah. where
they you've got every single paragraph
uh classified. So they they they gave
him such stringent guidelines, but he
eventually wrote the book and the
writing of the book, the things they
made him do. It's just ridiculous. Like
he couldn't name the countries. He
couldn't name he can't even give them
the country's fictitious country names.
You have to name them after like
>> American wildlife.
>> American wildlife. So this country is
like bare. This country like it's like
what the [ __ ] are you doing? Go come on.
>> Unreadable after. And so he's trying to
tell me the story. He can't
>> combined with his style of talking
>> and that,
>> right?
>> I couldn't tell you what happened.
>> Yeah. A childhood friend of mine uh kind
of that I stayed friends with through
college, she went with the CIA. I went
with the FBI and uh and so I went to her
wedding
>> and when I was a relatively new agent,
9798, and I was going to be seated at
the table with the CIA people. And I had
never met anyone who was with the CIA
before. And so I thought this going to
be really interesting. They're going to
be like like Jacked and maybe like
Debonire and like you know I was
thinking James Bond.
>> No, they're all like fat and [ __ ]
missing teeth and
>> kind of they were all they all reminded
me of like like junior college
philosophy professors like long beards
and kind of like on the nerdy side. Um
>> well I was going to say Andrew says he's
like listen like
>> smart smart but not but they weren't
like
>> dashing.
>> Andrew is like listen these guys like
have mental problems. Like a lot of
they'll hire people that are kind of
almost delusional like like he's like
they
>> you know they're short and fat or
they're tall and they've got like he's
like you know they're all brilliant but
they're
>> argumentative or
>> he's like they they hire people that are
>> off.
>> Yeah. Then then the 911 attacks happened
in 2001 and I got placed on a
counterterrorism squad and I was
liazisoning a lot with CIA people who
remain my friends to this very day and
they were just like us at the FBI. But I
remember that wedding was like um like
that um you ever seen Animal House with
the CI?
>> You ever seen Animal House? There's that
scene in Animal House where they keep
bringing the nerdy guys at the pledge
party over to the guy the blind the
blind guy and the and the other the
other pledges that aren't going to get
in. Um and you know the guy in the
turban and it was just sort of a um it
was an odd group of fellows and um but I
want to tell you about another a CIA guy
a 34 year old guy. His name was Aceif
William Ramen and he he'd been a CIA
analyst since 2016
and his last assignment um with the CIA
was at the US embassy in Cambodia.
Uh and again he's an analyst and so he
had accessed um as part of his job to
spy satellite photos from you ever heard
of this agency the US Geospatial
Intelligence Agency.
They're the US government's eye in the
skies. They're the ones taking pictures
of stuff on the ground from satellites
and then getting that information to the
CIA analysts to kind of make decisions
like, you know, Ukraine is moving a
bunch of tanks here. This is something
maybe you'd want to know. Or Russia is
amassing a lot of um you know, a lot of
war machines on the on this border. And
you know, we're watching this from the
sky.
>> Yeah.
>> And getting that information to the CIA.
>> They're putting missiles in Cuba. They
got the guy with the
>> Yeah. All that stuff. All that stuff.
Right. That's a missile.
>> And so that doesn't happen on accident.
It happens because people work for the
government doing these things. In
October 2024, Israel was moving missile
assets into place to conduct a military
strike in response to a ballistic
missile attack from Iran.
>> In what year?
>> Um October 2024.
>> Okay.
>> Okay. Things are heating up in the
Middle East at this window of time, as
you may remember.
>> Yeah. A seif is monitoring the situation
uh with the from these um from these
satellite pictures looking at this stuff
happening. Um
>> then a seif did something really really
dumb. A real career limiting move.
>> He smuggles these satellite photos home
and begins taking pictures of them with
his iPhone.
And then he hops on Telegram. You
familiar with Telegram?
>> Yeah.
>> Telegram is a texting app. you and I
could text each other on Telegram, but
there's also lots of like chat groups
and stuff like that on Telegram. Some of
which are kind of unsavory, some of
which are just people with political
interests. And so there was a Telegram
group for people who harbored very
anti-Israel views. They exist out there.
And uh you may be surprised to learn. Um
and he begins posting these photos up
there in this Telegram group.
>> Is he anti-Is Israeli? Like what's
what's his what's his purpose? I think
he's probably one of those people who
isn't thrilled with the way Israel has
been handling their uh their regional
battles, okay, the regional uh you know,
the way they're doing stuff. I I don't
know a whole lot about um about Aif
William Ramen's politics, but I'm going
to assume that if he's part of some
Telegram group that's um that's against
Israel and Israel's policies and what
the types of things Israel does that he
probably, you know, has shares those
views. So, as soon as he posts these
things on Telegram for comment, he
immediately realizes, "Oh my god, I
should not have done that."
>> Right?
>> He gets that feeling that you get after
you do something really stupid and maybe
that bell can't be unrgung,
>> right?
>> So, he takes he takes his iPhone out to
his driveway and begins smashing it with
a hammer. And he's like, "This may not
be enough." He unplugs his Wi-Fi router,
takes that to the driveway, begins
smashing it with a hammer.
You'll be shocked to learn
>> none of that matters.
You just lost two devices. That's all
you did,
>> right? And he takes the shattered
devices, the electronics, and dumps and
takes them down the street to the public
trash can in the corner. Throws them
away in the public trash can in the
corner. He needs to get rid of this
evidence before the government comes a
knocking
>> before they pull it off the iCloud.
Right.
>> Yeah. So, the CIA uh quickly learns of
this leak. You'll be surprised to learn.
and um and they reverse engineer who was
accessing these classified documents and
they're like it's a thief that guy.
>> Now the CIA really can't do much about
that honestly um other than fire him
because the CIA has no criminal
authority.
>> Okay,
>> CIA doesn't conduct investigations.
That's not what they do. They
>> call the FBI charge, right? So they call
my former colleagues at the FBI
>> and uh who arrest a seif and uh he gives
it up immediately. He's not a tough guy.
>> All right.
>> Pleads guilty to um retaining and
transmitting top secret national defense
information. That's the crime.
>> Okay.
>> Pleads guilty.
>> Uh probably got an okay deal from the
government. I've worked I've been in the
peripheral of cases like this when it
comes to top secret stuff. The
government does not want to try these
cases. Yeah. Right. Because the evidence
in this case are top secret stuff. And
um and I I I worked a case that involved
a lot of top secret materials that was
kind of headed toward trial. And it is a
real pain in the ass for the agents to
either get these things declassified or
sequester the jury, then do background
checks and all the jurors to give them
the clearance to see it. The judge needs
to get a clearance. When you go show the
um the defense attorney, you need to
like bring them into a secured facility
to show them the evidence in their own
case. It is a huge pain in the ass.
Right.
>> So, a lot of these kind of, you know,
classified documents spills, the
government's looking to not try this
thing. So, I want you to keep that in
your mind when you think about the
sentence that this guy's going to get.
>> And what is that sentence, Matt Cox?
>> 41 months.
>> You really like that number, huh?
>> Yeah.
>> Tell me, walk me through your thought
process because that's always one of the
most fun parts of these segments.
>> I think maybe maybe 29 months. This is a
CIA analyst who ought to have known
better.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> Who steals top secret security
documents, puts them out on Telegram to
god knows whom, and then uh and then
destroys the evidence immediately
afterwards or tries to.
I'm just want I'm just setting the
stage. I'm not trying to talk you out of
your guess.
>> Yeah. Yeah. I I mean I think
like I would think
like 10 years, but like you said,
there's
he's in a position to
to like you said, look, this is a this
is a nightmare to defend. You know, this
is a nightmare for you guys to try me.
>> You think I'm on trial? Israel's on
trial.
>> Yeah, it could turn into who knows what
it's going to turn into. So, I mean, I
think that they probably say, "Okay, you
know, 41 months he'll be on probation.
He'll never work in in any type of
security."
>> No, his top secret security is gone.
Yeah.
>> Uh, so yeah, I'm going to say 41 months.
I mean, I don't think it's 10 years. I
don't think anybody's life was in
danger. Although, they can make that
argument, but it never gets to trial.
So, I think 41 months,
>> correct answer. 37 months. You're there.
>> Nice. Nice.
>> Nice.
>> I got to get the guidelines. I got to
know what the low end of each guideline
is.
>> Study that in bed. Study that in bed
tonight.
>> Of each
>> of each one. That's That's pretty good.
That's a good guess.
>> Yeah. He's not Aldra James. It's not a a
slew of There's not dozens of bodies in
his wake.
>> Yeah. And not Yeah. And not uh not a
very sophisticated means either.
>> All right, let's come back to Florida. I
think that some of the best cases happen
right here under our nose in Florida.
Florida does attract some interesting
people.
>> It does, doesn't it? The whole Florida
man thing.
>> This is if there if I've ever done a
Florida man story, this is a Florida man
story. Kevin Jones of CMI, Florida,
where I'm going to be spending the night
tonight uh before I do Halloween Horror
Nights at Universal.
He came up with a diabolical plan.
>> Make sure you throw that thing in the
throw that in there. It's important that
the the people know where I'm going to
>> Yeah, that that that segment you're
referring to will be at the end of this
episode.
>> I don't I don't remember what I said.
It's you get a fast pass. Uh it's a VIP
pass. They call it an RIP pass, but
that's not what we're talking about. He
came up with a plan to kill his ex-wife.
>> Yeah.
>> What's his name?
>> Uh Kevin Jones.
>> Kevin Jones
>> of CMI.
>> Almost sounds made up.
>> It It does sound like a AKA name. Um, it
was a diabolical plan.
>> Some may say it was a brilliant plan.
Matt Cox,
>> right? He He faked the burglary.
>> Oh, no, no, no. Way better. Way better.
>> He purchased the ingredients to produce
the deadly toxin Ryson.
>> Oh, Jesus.
>> You heard of Ryson?
>> Yeah.
>> Okay, we're not We don't need to go
through the recipe here, but it's it's
not terribly difficult to make Ryson.
Um,
>> one milligram in food or water can kill
an adult.
>> Right.
>> Right. So toxic. So toxic box.
>> But you can detect it too, right? Like
it's
>> like it wouldn't taste good. I think by
that point it's game over.
>> No. No. I I think that you can test for
it. Like it's not hard to figure out if
somebody died of clearly. Okay.
>> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Without question, right?
Oh, no. Yeah. This is his ex-wife.
>> He's not he's not putting it in her eggs
in the morning. Okay. They're apart. I
think he's just sick and tired of paying
alimony or child support or whatever it
is. Or maybe he's just sick of her.
>> I get it. You get it?
>> I've got an ex-wife. You know what I'm
saying?
>> Yeah. All right. Well,
>> I get those texts every once in a while.
I think
>> Well, you're already on team Kevin then.
>> Anyway, so he came up with a plan and
begins testing various squirt guns in
search of one that would not leak. Matt
Cox.
>> Gosh.
>> Because his plan was to fill the squirt
gun full of water tainted with deadly
Ryson
and then
uh then he was going to go and squirt
his ex-wife with the Ryson water and
kill her.
Is it absorbed through the skin?
>> I'm not sure.
>> I was going to say I was thinking what's
he going to do like when she doesn't
look he's going to squirt it in her
>> her soda or something? He was going to
go to her place, squirt her, and then he
would immediately go on vacation so he'd
have an alibi.
>> Like she's not going to like stupid.
>> So the timeline's off. You're not
>> He's got it all figured out. All right.
He's thought this through more than you
have. Let's just put it that way.
>> Yeah.
>> He tells a buddy that this is his plan.
>> Runs it by his buddy. He's like He's
like, "Hey, I want to run this by you.
Tell me if you think it's a good plan."
His buddy is like, "I don't know, Kevin.
He leaves.
>> I feel like Kevin's a big These are two
fat guys. Two two guys with bare bellies
that you know.
>> Now, the wife lives in Texas, right? So,
he's got a long car ride to go from
Florida to Texas with his Rice and
Squirt gun.
>> Okay.
>> Um the friend immediately calls the FBI.
I want no part of this. I don't even
want to know this is happening.
>> Um but the problem is but by the time
the FBI and police kind of got in the
mix, he's on his way to Texas. He's like
literally on the road to Texas to with
this loaded squirt gun um filled with
rice and water to go kill his wife. All
points bulletin. Be on the lookout for
Kevin with a wacko shot a wacko squirter
>> in his Vega or whatever he's driving.
And um now you'll be surprised to learn
Kevin drives a pickup truck. and uh they
stopped his truck and they uh he
consents to a search and in the search
they find a water gun and five tubes of
poisonous rice and water. Okay, the
ex-wife's fine. You can all breathe
easy. I know you were concerned about
her. They did get a search warrant of
his house and um and agents find
containers of Ryson and like printed out
articles from the internet on how to
deploy a Ryson attack.
>> So there was there was no evidence then.
Pretty good evidence. Pretty good.
>> None circumstantial.
>> Scoured the whole house and destroyed
all evidence and he
>> circumstantial.
>> Oh, I should also mention they found two
guns, a silencer or suppressor, and 300
3,000 rounds of ammunition. Also a no no
cuz Kevin's a convicted felon.
>> Okay. So,
>> Oh, Kevin.
>> Kevin's got some issues.
>> I'm surprised Kevin was able to make the
Ryson without killing himself. In in
fairness to Kevin, when when placed
under FBI interrogation, and we are the
best at that, he confessed, gave it all
up. Nowhere to go, right?
>> And in the garage, there was an ice lab.
I mean, he's
>> that's the only thing that's missing.
>> Five underage girls, three hawa.
>> Three pitbulls. He had three pit balls.
>> Right. So Kevin pleads guilty to being a
felon in possession of a firearm as well
as making the illegal biological toxin.
What are you going to sentence this
criminal mastermind?
>> So I think a big part of this is whether
or not the judge actually has an
ex-wife.
>> Might be a real empathy play there.
>> I can see the judge.
>> Should he recuse himself if he does? Who
among us hasn't wanted to Yeah. Ladies
and gentlemen, you US attorney Bradley,
you've got an ex-wife, right?
>> Exactly.
>> What are we doing here? What are we
doing here?
>> That's Matt Cox saying that, not me.
>> The record state. It's him, the
criminal, not the hero.
>> Um, let's see. Let's see.
I wonder if Kevin So, he didn't go to
trial?
>> No. Plead guilty.
>> So, he wasn't able to put uh any
recordings or text messages, his
conversations with his ex-wife in. They
just didn't get a real feel for the
victim.
>> Let's say that she's a sympathetic
victim.
>> Really?
>> I don't know.
>> Sounds like a delightful lady.
>> Um,
>> she had the sense to leave him.
>> She also had the sense to marry him.
>> Yeah.
>> Um, let me think. Let me think about
this.
>> She's just living her life in Texas.
>> Oh, my exes live
>> live in Texas. There you go.
>> We We know what the numbers do.
>> Why do I feel like that? We know what we
know what the numbers do when I sing on
the show.
>> He was so funny when I saw that intro
the last time where he put me over your
shoulder going.
>> I don't know what was worse, my singing
or your dancing.
>> Horrible.
>> I would die laughing. Um, uh,
>> Kevin Jones, Ryson, squirt gun attacker,
convicted.
>> Because I have an ex-wife. It's hard to
>> I have to just,
>> you know, I have to differentiate, you
know, my issues.
>> I know. I You have to step outside your
own self this one.
>> Um,
>> don't let your biases control your
answers.
>> Plead guilty. Felon, got a gun. I don't
know. I'm thinking he's up there. He's
He's around He's at
He's at least 10 years, maybe more. He
may be
I'm going to say 120 months, but it may
be 180 180 months. Between 120 I can't
give a range. Uh,
let's go in between. Let's go 12 years
cuz like I said, you know.
>> All right. So, 12 years is your guess.
>> Not like just a random person like she
he knows her.
>> I'm going to go 12 years.
>> He's not like he's some ISIS guy. He's
focused.
>> Yeah. 144
months. That's 12 years, right?
>> 12 years. Yeah. Yeah.
>> Correct answer is 10 years. Oh,
>> I'm still good though. I'm still good.
is exactly in 20%.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Nice. Nice.
>> Well done. Well done. You're doing well
today.
>> Four for six.
>> Yeah. Look at that.
>> Is Listen, have it just been the attempt
and the none of the other extenduating
fact factors. I was thinking like five,
like maybe five, but
>> let's stay in Florida for this next one.
>> Okay.
>> I can't decide if this criminal is smart
or stupid.
So, let's let's weigh in on that along
the way. Okay.
>> Okay. Let's talk about this guy.
39year-old
um Johnson St. Louis is his name. Lives
in Deerfield Beach, Florida. Where's
that?
>> Dare Deerfield.
>> It's like um Miami. It's like South
Florida area.
>> Okay, makes sense.
>> Um he's an ATM technician by trade.
>> Okay.
>> Okay. But he figures out a way to use
his trade to steal some money.
>> Okay.
>> I don't know how. Okay.
>> Well, I'm about to tell you, buddy. I'm
about to tell you. That's what I'm here
for.
Matt Cox, in the dark of night, Johnson
went to a drive-thru ATM at Bank of
America in Longwood, Florida,
and he manipulates the machine to cause
a malfunction.
Then he hides in the woods waiting for
the the repair tech to arrive. There's a
hole in there's like I've seen this
place. There there's a like the ATM is
like in the back corner of the lot.
There's kind of a woodsy scrub brushy
area there and the chain link fence, but
there's a big hole in the chain link
fence. So, he's hiding in the bushes
because I guess when a machine
malfunctions, it sends an automatic
message to the company that handles the
maintenance on that machine and they
send out a tech as quick as possible
because Bank of America wants their
machines online, right? They don't want
customers to be honked off
>> and and so it's close to midnight and
the technician arrives. I'm surprised to
hear the
>> tech say that's crazy.
>> Yeah, crazy. just can't wait.
>> Technician opens the ATM vault to make
the repair, and Johnson emerges from the
woods through the hole in the fence.
He's got black clothing on, a mask,
gloves, pulls a gun on the technician,
and forces the technician to his knees.
Then Johnson unloads all the cassettes
filled with cash. I had no idea.
$135,000
in cash in this ATM.
and he takes off. Becomes an FBI
problem, right? Because the I mean
police and FBI work in this case
together. Um
they begin to take a look at the video.
You know, maybe the malfunction was
caused by it's an inside job and uh and
they the video you see Johnson visiting
the ATM before the robbery, but he's
obscuring his face with a mask and he's
got a sun visor on and he does something
at the machine uh without without
conducting a transaction.
They they couldn't see the plates, but
they saw there was a 2016 white Mercedes
and um
Oh, actually, no. And they were able to
then develop the plates like around the
corner. Um and they saw the plates and
it came back to Johnson, right? But but
his face isn't on his fa You can't see
his face, right? But it's his license
plates
>> and they and they
>> and he has the he has the expertise to
do this,
>> right? So
>> it's him.
>> We're getting warmer. Yeah, we're
getting warmer. And so um and he's you
know and so they put him under
surveillance. Police and FBI doing
shifts here and there and um and they do
a pretext traffic stop on him and they
search his car. The police do and they
find a handgun with tape over the serial
number and a list of bank branch
locations.
Again, everyone in Florida has a gun. I
think he's probably allowed to. Um, and
it lists a a handwritten list of bank
branch locations in the area and
annotations on that list regarding the
make and models of the ATMs at each of
those locations.
>> Okay.
>> Right. And then they get to work and
finding in looking at the video of each
of those locations and see Johnson in
his white Mercedes there casing every
single one of those ATMs also kind of
checking it out, messing with it and um
and while he's obscuring his face. Cell
phone location analysis also puts
Johnson at the scene of two other
similar ATM robberies that had happened
before.
>> Oh, okay. So this multiple other parts
of Florida.
>> Yeah.
>> Right. None of the money's recovered,
but records from the seminal Hard Rock
Casino,
>> nice little product placement, show
Johnson gambling and losing $222,000
shortly after the last robbery.
>> What an idiot.
>> Yeah,
>> not not a Tom Simon
uh caliber poker player. Clearly,
>> I'm gonna guess he probably wasn't even
playing poker. He's got slots written
all over Okay.
>> So, we have a circumstantial case,
right? You never see Johnson
>> feel like it's No, you you think
circumstantial means weak.
Circumstantial doesn't mean weak.
Circumstantial means you you have lots
of evidence that build up the
circumstances, but you haven't actually
caught him committing the crime.
>> Oh, okay. Well,
>> I I don't dislike circumstantial cases.
I made my living on circumstantial
cases. I I feel like like to me I feel
like this is like I I circumstantial I
feel like is like you have 100% proof
where to me this is not circumstance.
This is you have 100% proof like there's
no way it's not this guy.
>> It's proof based on lots of catch them
in their act.
>> This is proof based on lots of clues. We
don't have him doing the crime on
camera. We have his car at the scene of
the crime. We have this list of ATMs at
the scene of the crime. We have his cell
phone at the scene of other crimes that
were very similar. We have a guy who has
the technological knowledge to do the
crime. And uh none of this though I mean
well I mean this is to me it's a very
good circumstantial case but that's the
difference between a circumstantial case
and a case where you've got his face on
camera or you have an eyewitness saying
it's Johnson. I know Johnson.
>> Yeah. I was going to say you to me you
like you do have him on I do have him on
camera. I just don't have his face on
camera but I've got him. He had happened
to have a a mask.
>> Johnson goes to trial.
>> [ __ ] this [ __ ] guy.
>> Johnson goes to trial. He's like, "You
got nothing on me, bro.
>> You got nothing."
>> Just because my cell phone was there, my
car was there.
>> I am an ATM enthusiast. Of course, I'm
going around to ATMs in South Florida,
bro.
>> Okay.
>> Right.
>> All right. Jury Jury comes back.
>> I'm thinking guilty.
>> Guilty.
>> Yeah. 15 years.
>> Well, that's the question.
>> 15 years. That's the question.
>> I feel like 20, but I'm going to go 50.
He did pull a gun off.
>> He did pull a gun.
>> He didn't shoot anybody.
>> And he has a gun in his car with with
with a piece of black tape over the
serial number.
>> This is just stupid. Like cuz like if
I'm pointing the gun at you, you're
going to be like
>> X5623.
Well, I don't
>> note to myself.
>> He had a mask, but I did memorize the
serial number. Really? Right.
>> Um,
yeah. I don't think that's defacing. Uh
because if it was defacing then that's
probably another enhancement.
>> No, it's just a piece of black tape.
>> So I'm between I'm between 180 and
>> give it to me in years.
>> Give it to you.
>> It's around it's around amount of years
>> between between 15 to 20 years. He did
go to trial. I'm going to go
>> I hate doing 20 years. No, he didn't
hurt anybody. He didn't I'm going to go
Yeah, they really only have him, you
know, for the $135,000
um, you know, theft, but it was an armed
robbery. It was like a bank robbery.
>> Yeah, that's it might as well be a bank
robbery. You might as well have gone in
the bank. You think you're being cute,
but you might as well just walked in the
bank.
>> Mhm.
>> Very.
>> And on the smart and stupid scale,
you're landing on stupid.
>> Well, I think part of it was stupid.
Part of it I think the basic concept was
smart.
>> Sabotaging the ATM and then laying in
weight.
>> Yeah. I I I don't have a problem with
like that. Some of that is
>> a problem with
>> No, no. I No, I'm saying some of that
I'm like I'm like that's pretty like
some of it's good. Some of it's a good
plan. I just think the I the him
covering his tracks and having an alibi
using all of his own equip, you know,
everything pointed to him. It was just
that was just stupid like that. That's
where it falls. So, in the end, I think
I'm going to go with stupid. I'm going
to go with
>> But I also feel like you get a little
time off for stupid. Um let's say let's
say uh 15 years.
>> 15 years. Final answer.
>> Yeah. The correct answer is 14 years.
Well done. Which I think might have been
your very first guess
>> was 14, I think. No, I said 180, which
was 15.
>> Okay.
>> Yeah.
>> Good.
>> Pretty close. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. That's
>> I could have gone bad for him.
>> Like if they had given him 20, I almost
would have been like, it's stiff but
reasonable. 14 is
>> It would have been bad for you, too,
because you would have been wrong.
>> Yeah. But 14 seems reasonable. That
seems like, you know, you went to trial.
You're not admitting it. You're not It
didn't recover any money.
>> He's going to come out of prison. He has
a trade already. Yeah.
>> I don't even think the money's I I think
the the if it was fraud, I'm more
concerned about the money. But to me, if
you go in the bank, that's like I went
in the bank with a gun and I robbed them
and I got $2,000 or I went in the bank
and I robbed them and I got $200,000.
Like, I don't give a [ __ ] what you got.
You went in the bank with a gun. That's
what I'm That's what I'm focusing on.
That's the problem. That money is
irrelevant what you got. The fact is you
went to a bank with a gun and there were
people in there and you were No.
>> Mhm.
>> So,
>> well, good job. You did a good job. All
right. I know you're a huge fan of
sports and so our next two stories are
going to be from the world of sports.
>> Not as man of a fan of sports and but
you're all mans.
>> Yeah.
Okay. Let's Can we be nice to me? I win
to you. You're you're undermining me.
You ever uh been to the rodeo?
>> Any experience in the world of rodeo?
>> Have you ever been to a rodeo?
>> I don't think I've ever been to a rodeo.
I've been to the to the state fair many
many times.
>> No, that's different than a rodeo. That
the rodeo doesn't have um
>> If you go to the state fair in Florida,
like they'll have bulls and they'll have
>> Yeah. Are people riding them though? No.
>> And lassoing them and stuff like that.
Maybe in an exhibition or something like
that. But um I have a picture of I I
have a a video of Jess riding a
mechanical bull.
>> Okay.
>> At the radio rodeo.
>> Well, there you go. That that counts
then.
>> Cyber rodeo. Really?
>> Let's imagine then that you were really
really into rodeos, like really into
them. Like that was your culture. These
are your people. Would you be more
trusting of a fellow rodeo person, a
fan, than you would a member of the
general public?
>> I mean, yeah. because you feel it's a
part of the community. What what do they
call that? Uh
>> an affinity fraud.
>> Affinity fraud. Yeah.
>> Yeah. Yeah. And that happens a lot,
right? You see like Mormons ripping off
Mormons, Jews ripping up Jews, the born
again Christians ripping up born again
Christians.
>> Like somehow your guard comes down a bit
in your own social. And so
>> there's a guy named Mike Galvin or
Galvan. Everyone called him Chief.
Chief. Hey Chief. How you doing Chief?
Hey Chief. Looking good chief. You
losing weight chief.
He was the vice president of the Houston
Livestock Show and Rodeo down in Texas.
And rodeo people were his people. Okay.
Chief Mike had a home development
company. I'm a home developer. That's
how I make my money. That's what he he
would that's what the chief would tell
people. It's called MGB Builders. And he
would he said,
>> "Is he really building?"
>> We'll get there.
He said that he had plans to build
beautiful custom mansions
>> with the for rich people with exotic
tile and Chinese granite. Not normal
granite, Chinese granite madcocks.
>> Nice.
>> Can you imagine Chinese granite? How
nice that must be. I have no idea.
Sounds nice.
>> They have granite in China. I guess I
don't think of it as a big Chinese, but
all their houses are wood like
>> Yeah. Don't take it for granted.
Um, Chief Mike, he was kind enough to
let some of his rodeo buddies invest in
some of these homes that he was
building. And he promised them 10 to 12%
interest if they would loan Chief Mike
the money to build these exotic
mansions.
>> Mhm.
>> And um, well, the Houston rodeo scene is
its own tribe, as we talked about. And
because of that, Chief Mike was able to
take in $2.8 million.
>> Wow. from six other members of his kind
of rodeo click.
>> Rodeo people have they must make good
money, right?
>> Houston, they're a lot of money and some
of those some of the wealthiest people I
know are rodeo cowboy kind type of
people.
>> Yeah. Really?
>> Okay. Yeah.
>> You'll be surprised to learn Matt Cox
that uh Chief Mike didn't spend the
money on building mansions. He spent it
kind of propping up the illusion that he
was like this big money, big hat, big
big belt buckle kind of guy,
>> right?
>> And uh and a member of kind of Houston's
high society again. He's the chief.
>> Was he So was was he seinal Indian by
chance? Maybe that's where all the
seminal That's why we don't see him.
They're they're taking that casino money
and they're going to
>> I'm not saying anything bad about seinal
Indians. I want to get comped in my
hotel room next time I come visit. You
said they were like leprechauns. They
don't see them much. I mean, I'm sure
they're full-size humans.
>> Okay. So, the mansions never
materialize, nor do the investment
returns.
And these six victims uh collectively
decide to reach out for um the FBI
because they begin to get that sinking
feeling that Chief Mike may have ripped
them off despite him being fellow rodeo
people.
Chief Mike ends up pleading guilty to
fraud charges and investors, all of
them, came to his sentencing and gave
six different victim impact statements.
The word betrayal was used a lot in
those victim impact statements because
again, he was one of them. He was rodeo
people.
>> You say rodeo people. Okay. Um,
>> it's a tribe, man. I'm not part of the
tribe. Maybe someday I can be. Does he
have a criminal history? Do we know?
>> No. No. He's the chief. He's a pillar in
society.
How do you get the name chief? Do you
push the name chief? I wonder.
>> It feels like one of those nicknames
that you give yourself.
>> You know what I mean? Like like some
nicknames like like shorty, fatty,
whatever.
Hey,
>> I'm Mike.
>> Call me chief. You can call me chief.
>> Um I told you I tried that in prison. I
tried to push chainsaw. Nobody would
chainsaw bad.
>> What do they call you? Chainsaw. They'd
be like, "No."
>> Like, I don't even know you. You don't
even know me.
>> You don't even want to know what I'm in
for.
>> They don't even But no, nobody ever was
like, "Chains?" Oh, yeah. Yeah. You're
you're a chainsaw. They were And they
guys, they look at me and they just
immediately they just met me and they're
like, "No,
>> no, we're not doing that." Like, I don't
know what you're thinking.
>> Just came from the medium.
>> Yeah. So, I I'm guessing Chief probably
gave it to himself, but uh but who
knows? Anyway, so we got uh non-violent
crime, no criminal history,
>> how many victims?
>> Six. 2.8 million bucks. Fellow rich
people. Not probably not the most
sympathetic victims. They feel betrayed
though, and they made that clear.
>> Did he go to trial?
>> No. Plead guilty.
And this is fairly recently.
>> I want to say five years for some
reason, but I'm going to go 48 months.
maybe f 48 months maybe five 48 months
to five years there's not a lot of
victims so you don't get much you know
it's under 10 victims
>> the I don't know where that falls on the
on the dollar scale to uh
>> I don't know if they seize and forfeited
his belt buckles or anything
>> um you know who knows he gets up there
and you know gives a [ __ ] spiel about
I had plans I had this this fell through
your honor we know if they recovered any
money or he just blew it
>> uh
>> probably just blew it
>> I think he blew it. I need to blew it.
>> Um,
>> your honor, I had every intention of
making this ride. I don't know what
happened. I'm Perhaps you know me for me
and the chief. Uh, you you've been to
the Houston Livestock Show, your honor.
I
seen you and your grandson.
>> Are you doing Sam?
>> Perhaps you want to bring the boy over.
I'll let him p a calf. Maybe we even
name one after him. He take him on a
pony ride.
>> You know who that's who is that? The the
the
What's the name of the the character? I
I pictured the the fish hawk or the Was
it not fish hawk? The you know what I'm
talking about? It's a it's a looney the
the big chicken.
>> Yeah, the big chicken.
>> Fogorn leg.
>> Fogorn. That's who I'm thinking.
>> I'm a throwing them boy, but you ain't
catching them.
>> Fog horn leg horn. That's who you're
doing right now. Fog horn leg.
>> I think that's what Mike Galvan spoke
like in my mind. The chief. Um
>> you could call me the chief.
>> Your honor, you know me. We go to the
same mega church.
>> Mega church.
>> 48 40 40. We play raetball at the mega
church together. Maybe a little squash.
48 months. 5 years.
>> 2.8 million bucks. Six victims. 50. I'm
going to go 51 months.
>> 51 months. Final answer.
>> Yes.
>> The correct answer is 27 months in
prison. That is ridiculous.
That's ridiculous. What happened to the
other chick that got like [ __ ] 33 months
for
Mike's a pillar in the community?
>> He doesn't.
>> Yeah. If he's a pillar, I'm a pillar of
the community.
>> Nobody puts the chief in a corner. Matt
Cox. All right. Kobe doesn't even know
what that's from, by the way.
>> What?
>> I Nobody puts
>> the chief in the corner.
>> Well, I'll tell the actual saying, the
actual it's nobody puts baby in the
corner.
>> Smokey and the bandit.
>> No.
He said it was a You should have seen
him.
>> So confident like he did this. He was
smoking the bandit like like he was 100%
son of a [ __ ]
>> I know you're you.
>> It's Dirty the movie Dirty Dancing.
>> Okay.
>> Which I've never seen cuz I'm all man.
>> Are you serious? You never saw Dirty
Dancing?
>> I'm familiar with
>> Is that the one with Is that the one
with John Travolta?
>> No. Patrick sees.
>> Oh,
>> Patrick sees.
>> Which one's John Travolta? Foot loose.
>> Uh Staying Alive. Yeah. Saturday. Fever.
Saturday Night Fever.
>> I haven't seen any of them anyways.
>> Oh, listen. There's a Tik Tok trend
where the guy is walking
um the guy is it it just follows this
guy. You never really see him, but he's
doing the walk from Saturday Night from
Saturday Night Fever where he's and you
and they play the music as he's like
walking through like airports.
>> Yeah. and he's just walking and so
people as they walk and girls are like
looking at him and there are couples
together and like the it's it's staged
obviously but it initially you think
it's not staged and like a guy will be
walking with his girl and his girl look
up at him he and the guy will like pull
his girl away.
>> It's hilarious because there's one after
another after another. You know what I'm
talking about? Did you find it?
>> Uhuh.
>> You're not even looking. Listen, this is
the my the worst version of Jamie
>> from Rogan ever.
>> That guy's on top of it. The big screen,
it pulls right up.
>> I say something and I and I'll see Colby
pick up his phone and I'm thinking, "Oh,
Kobe's finding it."
>> I was looking at what movie I keep
thinking of John Travolta and it's
Greece.
>> Oh, Greece.
>> Greece. I have seen Greece.
>> Yeah,
>> Greece. What?
>> That's all, man. What?
>> Come on. I was like seven. I was a kid.
That was actually a great movie.
>> It's a good movie. Good soundtrack.
>> It's a great I and immediately I I can
hear the two of them singing. It's
electrifying.
>> Exactly.
>> That's one of the songs. I get it. I get
it.
>> I'm ready. Go.
>> All right. Let's leave the world of
rodeo Matt Cox and go into the world of
the NBA. That's the National Basketball
Association.
>> Thank you. Okay. Can can you name three
NBA players
at all of all time? All time.
>> Wow. Okay, this is interesting.
>> Wait, I can I I Okay, so Magic Johnson,
>> that's one.
>> Larry Bird, correct?
>> Yes.
>> Uh, Michael Jordan.
>> There you go. You All right.
>> I don't think I could name one of them
that's currently playing.
>> Oh, you can name one
>> that's currently playing. You know,
LeBron James.
>> LeBron James. Yeah, I've heard the name.
And he's playing right now. He's a He
>> He's like,
>> who who died in the helicopter? They
>> Kobe Bryant. Oh, that was sad. With the
daughter
>> kids.
>> Um Yeah, I don't
>> Yeah, I don't I don't follow the the the
the NBA like you would think. You would
think
>> I'm going to hold your hand through the
story then
>> figuratively.
>> All right.
>> Why do I picture myself? Like I can just
feel like these guys like these guys
could stand there like that and I could
just walk right between their legs. Like
they're so tall. Have you ever seen one
these guys walking through you're like
>> if you ever Yeah. Especially when if you
ever go to a game and you see how big
they are.
>> See, I don't I disagree, Kobe. I When
you see them out in public is when it's
more shocking. Like I saw normal people
Elijah won at like Houston airport once
and you know in like a business suit and
I was like it's just ridiculous. Like
because they're when they're on the
court, they're with a bunch of other
super tall guys and all that, but when
you see them at an airport or something
like that and they're like seven feet
tall, it's freakish.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. They listen, there was a big guy
that sat when I I flew to Texas
>> that sat next to me.
>> He was pretty tall. He was really tall.
I mean, he's so tall that when he sat he
sat down, you know, I'm in coach. He sat
down like his knees are touching
>> and he's all the way back in the seat
and his knees are touching.
>> And I I leaned over to him. I said, "Did
you hear that they're now going to make
like plus-siz people pay for two seats?"
And he's like, he goes, "Yeah." I said,
"See, to me, that's something they could
control." Like, they don't have to be
plus-siz. So, you have to make them do.
He doesn't know me at all, but I just I
started this convers.
And I said, like, they have no they have
control over that, so they should be
forced to. I said, "You have no control
for your size." is I said, "I feel like
you should be in first class and you
shouldn't have to pay. You look
extremely uncomfortable." He goes, "I am
uncomfortable." He said, he said, "I'm
okay for if it's under two hours." He
said, "I'm okay sitting back here." He
This guy, how tall was he? When he stood
up, his head was literally touching the
ceiling of the plane. Like he I mean it
was like at he he stooped as he walked.
So he was at least 66.
>> In fairness, Matt Cox, isn't life always
like that for you when you see normal
size?
>> Yes. But I it was more pronounced
because he was in the seat, not to me
over.
>> Was he an NBA player or anything like
that or just a tall dude? Tall normal
guy.
>> And he was It's funny too cuz you know
most people don't wear like business
suits and stuff like they're they travel
but this was a short flight.
>> Mhm.
>> Uh but he uh yeah he was he was but he
he you know obviously he started
chuckling. He realized right away what I
was saying. I was like you should be in
first class. He said, "I should." He
agreed. He was like, "I should.
>> We all should."
>> So, I'm going to walk you through it.
There was a uh guy named Terrence
Williams and kind of a superstar college
player with the University of
Louisville. He then went on to play for
the Houston Rockets, the Brooklyn Nets,
the Sacramento Kings, and the Boston
Celtics.
>> He He had a good He had a good good run,
right? Good run. Yeah. Yeah. You know,
NBA player. Another thing to know kind
of by way of background is that the NBA
provides health insurance to current and
former NBA players and their families,
>> right? Do they also get like a
retirement? I I heard like that the the
football league like once you sign up
like you when you retire, whatever you
automatically get like $250,000 a year
or something.
>> I know if you make it a certain amount
of years in the league, then you like
get like a reoccurring check to make the
>> like a pension. Okay. So, but this is
health insurance. Yeah. Okay.
>> So, Terren Williams orchestrates a
>> I know you want to get on the road.
>> No, no, no, no, no. I'm good. I'm good.
This is story nine. We got a long way to
go. This is story nine of 12. Um,
>> and I have to go to the bathroom.
>> You want to call a timeout?
>> No. Let's go. Let's do this one.
>> All right. So, um, Terence Williams
orchestrates a scheme to defraud the NBA
health plan out of $2.5 million.
>> Why?
>> Here's how he does it. Here's how he
does it.
>> Why you're doing what?
>> He goes out and recruits a chiropractor.
You ever see a chiropractor?
>> I'm seeing one after this.
>> Really?
>> Yeah.
>> All right. Interesting.
>> You don't like chiropractors?
>> Not a fan.
>> Really?
>> Not a fan.
>> Really? Wait till you get a pinched
nerve in your neck. Then you're going to
be
>> Yeah. Maybe he'll snap over it and and
the sound waves will heal me with this
[ __ ] placebo effect. Don't get me
started.
>> I'm getting all better.
>> Chiropractor should be in prison.
>> I feel great. It's cheap. It's 35 bucks
to go see him.
>> Oh yeah. Worth every cent of it, too.
Yeah. With his fake degree pretending to
be a doctor. Don't get me started with
chiropractors.
Um,
here's what I want you to do tonight.
Google chiropractic injuries and see
what happens to people who go to
chiropractors. They're back cracking
nonsense.
>> You got to leave all that in.
>> Please do. Oh, absolutely. Come at me in
the comments, chiropractors. I'm coming
for you. I'm coming for you. Oh, you're
the first to go.
>> Listen, I I had I had I met a I was
friends with a doctor in prison. And you
know what he told me? What? He said that
there are studies and this by the way he
was a um he was a uh I can't believe it.
He was a um
>> oh what am I basically what's the study
of the lungs? He was a a pulmonary
pulminary specialist pulmonologist. Yeah
>> he actually did lung transplants
>> and I was like how
>> that's a doctor
>> right? He said all of his patients die.
>> I was like what I was like what do you
mean? He said listen he said very
seldomly. He said does it ever? He said
you you can extend their life. He said,
"But in the end, if you have problems
with the lungs," he said, "It's just
bad." Yeah.
>> He said, "Everything's connected."
>> So anyway, uh he said, cuz I had made a
crack about chiropractors, cuz I was
like, I don't I was like, yeah, it's
[ __ ] It's it's okay. Well, he said
he was he is funny. He said because
there are actually studies, he said
legitimate studies that say in some
instances chiropractors have as much
um that they contribute or have as much
of an influ impact as physical therapy.
He said for certain injuries, he said on
the back,
>> you know, I I will allow that the best
chiropractors um are are using the
actual the actual sciences of physical
therapy and massage and can produce
results. That's not chiropractic
medicine though. you know, has nothing
to do with backtracking or any of the
[ __ ] that chiropractor
>> chiropractic science is uh is absolute
nonsense.
>> So, I just Anyway,
>> but even a stop clock is right twice a
day. I'm not saying that every that
there's not a chiropractor out there who
hasn't helped someone.
>> We're getting a few far a field.
>> Terren Williams recruits.
>> I love watching the Tik Toks. You ever
watch the Tik Toks when they crack
people
>> with the hot babes?
>> No, there's there's
>> they rap there. There's one with hot
babes. one area, which by the way, when
I started going to him, shooting pains,
couldn't feel my hands. I mean, a major
problem. Did an X-ray, showed me the
disc, like I'm like, "Holy shit." Like,
that's that definitely is not right.
Like, I'm looking at this disc like,
"That's something's wrong."
>> And um and he told me before when I
explained what I what it was, he said,
"I can tell you right now where where
your issue is." He told me exactly where
it was. Then took an X-ray, came back
and was like, "Boom, right there. Yep.
You've got you either have one or two
things, whole thing." And he's been
working on it. And I go once a week for
I went once a week for maybe three
weeks. Now he's like we'll go, you know,
every two weeks. He's like And
>> how long have you been seeing him?
>> A month and a half.
>> All right.
>> Is it possible in your mind that your
body has just healed over time?
>> It I have I have thought about that. I
have thought that it is possible. And I
don't know if it would have naturally
done that or not. But
>> having that placebo effect in place of
this doctor pushes things along.
>> It's cheap. And and I and I I like to
think that, you know, maybe he's helping
me. And then here's the thing, too. It's
not like he's milking me. He's dowed.
He's like, "Look, let's let's start
doing it once a month." He's like He's
like, "Cuz you're you're fine." He's
like, "You're you're getting better.
>> How much does this cost you?"
>> 35 bucks.
>> 35 bucks. Yeah.
>> I I missed my appointment yesterday. And
he texted me. He said, "Hey, you missed
your appointment if you want to
reschedule." And I said, "Yeah, I'll
reschedule today." I said, "Listen, and
by the way, that was completely my fault
cuz I was out of town." I was like, and
and I said I said, "And I'll I by all
means I'll pay for the 35 bucks for He
said, "Absolutely not." He said, "You
didn't show up. Not a big deal. I'm here
anyway." He said just
>> How long are these sessions for 35
bucks?
>> Um maybe 20 minutes, 30 minutes, like
not long,
>> you know? But I to me I feel like if he
had said if he had said 80 bucks every
session, I'd have paid it. There you go.
>> I was listen I was it was bad Kobe. I
mean I was I was [ __ ] up. You're
right. Maybe it healed by itself. Maybe
it would have healed anyway. Maybe he
even maybe he even made it go a couple
of weeks extra. But I feel good about
the thing and I feel like this is a good
listen as opposed to like surgery or my
doctor who was telling me
>> I'm not telling you to go into the
knife,
>> Matt. Oh, well, my doctor was saying,
"Look, cuz when I explained it to her,
she was saying I said, "Well, I'm going
to go to a chiropractor like she's
saying, well, look, why don't I give you
a a referral to a pain specialist?"
Like, you got you're trying to put me on
on pain meds. Like, I don't want to be
on pain meds. Like, I want to go on like
I'll try this for I'm trying everything
before I get to that. I'm reading a book
right now called You Are the Placebo,
which was actually written by a
chiropractor discussing the placebo
effect and how it works and how um how
it's it's absolutely amazing that you
know if I give you a sugar pill and tell
you this is going to cure your back, it
you know you'll eat that sugar pill and
it may actually cure your back like 40%
of the time. And it's not because your
pain was fake. It's because the body is
amazing and your mind is amazing.
>> And that doctor that I told you about is
the same thing. He said, "Look," he
said, "most things your body will heal
by itself." He said, "Most people don't
really need to go to the doctor."
>> Well, that's the whole thing with faith
healing. I mean, you find someone with
like a humpback and arthritis and all
that and then the the megaurch pastor
like puts his hands on and boom, boom,
boom, dude's, you know, doing
cartwheels. That's real sometimes, but
it's a function of the placebo effect
and and adrenaline and and things like
that. So, um, I think your chiropractor
is a fraud,
but I'm glad you're feeling better. So,
these two things go hand in hand with
each other.
>> Oh my gosh. Okay.
>> Terrence Williams, NBA star trying to
rip off the NBA health plan. He recruits
a chiropractor. He recruits a dentist.
and he convinces them to submit false
invoices to the NBA health plan seeking
reimbursement for work that they never
did. Make sense?
>> Yeah.
>> Okay. So, the doctor, the chiropractor,
and the dentist are going to get paid
and then they give a kickback to Terren
Williams and keep a little bit for
themselves.
>> Okay.
>> Okay. But the problem is they need NBA
patients to put down, right, for these
fake procedures that never take place.
So he starts recruiting other NBA
>> bingo. So he goes out and recruits other
NBA players to submit false claims in
the same manner. Uh and the
co-conspirators pay Williams financial
kickbacks for help in kind of
facilitating this insurance fraud. Uh
the co-conspirators, I'm happy to name
names here on your show, your show only.
I'm going to name names. Matt Cox, uh
Utah Jazz coach Kenyan Dueling, LA
Lakers Shannon Brown, LA Clippers Darius
Miles.
>> Not Miles.
>> Yeah. LA Clippers Allan Anderson were
all co-conspirators
working with Terrence Williams
submitting false claims and everyone's
getting a little everyone's getting
money. They're milking the system. Then
things get weird. Matt Cox.
>> Mhm.
>> Williams creates a fake email address
pretending to be the administrator of
the NBA health plan. And then he emails
the dentist who had been helping him out
to rip off the plan. And the email says,
"We've discovered you are committing
fraud, ripping off the health plan.
Please pay a fine in the amount of
$346,000,
and we won't prosecute you for the false
invoices."
>> What is with this? This guy's got fraud
on top of fraud. Now he's defrauding the
fraudsters. The dentist paid the fine of
$346,000
to this fake uh you know I don't know
how the money was delivered but
basically to a bank account that
Williams controlled thinking it was the
NBA health plan like to so he could
avoid prison. So he ripped off right he
ripped off his co-conspirator.
Pretty clever.
>> Very yeah pretty Yeah.
>> Well of course he gets caught.
>> How does he get caught? I wonder how he
got caught. I think eventually the NBA
health plan just began taking audit.
Yeah. Did some It's always some kind of
audit or something perfectly innocent.
It lands on the FBI's desk. FBI get
arrests him.
>> Williams is out on bond awaiting trial
and he begins sending text messages to
witnesses in the case threatening them
to not cooperate.
>> He's getting deeper and deeper.
>> You talk to the FBI, my man. It's not
going to end up good for you. We're very
tall dudes.
>> Very muscular tall dudes. the other
players, every one of those
co-conspirators agrees to cooperate
against Williams. So, they're just
lining up. It's like they'd rather be on
the bus than under the bus.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Rather be a witness than a
>> All those names I mentioned, they go to
the FBI, they go, "Do I have a story for
you with their attorneys?" And
>> better to be a witness than a
co-conspirator.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, again, $2.5
million. Williams sees the writing on
the law wall and ends up pleading
guilty. Now, the government sees
$650,000 of his assets. Okay.
>> Okay. So, bit of a recovery there and
stuff that he bought, bank account
information. Um, you know, so he has
restitution obviously. Pleads guilty to
fraud and identity theft uh for
pretending to be the uh NBA person. Um,
that's pretty much the facts.
>> That's such a
That's not identity theft. Like, is he
is it a real person he's pretending to
be or did you just make up a name?
>> Um, I I think it's only identity theft
if you um choose a real person. Yeah.
So, trust me, they they that when they
were adding up victims for me,
>> they added up they were I'm I'm look I
was reading through the names and I'm
like, "Wait a minute, that person
doesn't even exist." And this literally
this is what the Secret Service agent
said to me.
>> Cuz the name was David Freeman. And she
said, "Somebody's named David Freeman."
And I'm like, "Are are you fucking," you
know, I wanted to just be like, "Are you
[ __ ] with me? I made up the name
David Freeman. put it on a [ __ ]
license to go open up, you know,
>> find a more unique name.
>> But you see what I'm saying? Like what a
but what a jerk. Like Mustafa shoelace.
>> But I'm saying I'm already in trouble.
Do we have to do we do we would have to
Can we just [ __ ] I could just go to
jail for what I did.
>> I think you found yourself in a position
where the government felt you had stuck
your thumb in their eye and they were
looking to stick it back to you.
>> That happened.
>> They did. They got me.
>> Well, um but so I'm wondering about the
identity because because to me if it's
aggravated identity theft, like that's
an extra two years. Uh I don't know that
if the word aggravated was in any of the
charging documents that I looked at.
>> Okay. So
>> 2.5
>> 2.5 million pretty complicated scheme
identity theft fraud. Um
>> really imaginative like I'm not sure you
know I see the problem with government
they'll give you an enhancement for
being imaginative where I feel like you
kind of have to be like you know I feel
like that's a downward departure.
>> You think like game respects game
there's a little fist bump there.
>> I like the ripping off your codependent.
>> Yeah. Um,
he's got no criminal history, I'm sure,
because he's playing in the uh in the
NBA. So, and none of them have criminal
history.
>> I don't know that, but I wouldn't
necessarily assume that.
>> None of them have criminal. They're all
good people.
>> Right. Right. Right. It's like the NFL,
right? The only people with more head
injuries than NFL players are their
wives.
>> My god.
uh
like I don't I think like I think not
three or four years like I'm going to go
back with 41 months 41 that's your
number it's your lucky number today is
41
>> it was enhanced it was there's
sophisticated means for sure and the
this and the that complicated
>> I want you to think about the witness
tampering also Oh,
wasn't charged with it, but
>> but they don't they they
judge gets to know it occurred.
>> Yeah.
>> Threatening threatening witnesses in the
case.
>> Let's go see.
>> You shut up if you know what's good for
you.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> 60 months. I'm still thinking.
>> I'm not trying to drag you off your
security blanket. I know you're in
there.
>> Trying to help. Feel like you're trying
to help me there. I'm going to go 60
months.
>> 60 months. What's that? Five years.
>> Yeah. 60 months. I don't know. It's not
a lot of money.
>> 2.5 million bucks. Not a lot of money.
No.
>> You must be doing well.
>> 60 months. 60 months.
>> 60 months. Correct answer.
>> 10 years.
>> Wow.
That's ridiculous. That's
>> a oneman crime wave.
>> That's He's He's This is a oneman crime
wave. He's looping people in. He's
getting fake doctors. He's getting fake
pretend doctors. He's doing it all. I
mean, he it's like he's got he's got
he's got he's got really one real
victim, which is the insurance company.
The other guy the your cod victimizing
your code offend is not victims.
>> I know, but the the mechanism he put
into place
>> very complicated. Yeah, that's only one
enhancement. It's sophisticated means.
>> Yeah, but I think the totality of the
whole thing
>> I mean I'm obviously wrong.
>> Yeah, clearly. So I I'm I'm arguing from
a bad perspect since clearly I did not
>> I I I don't think this is as big of a
deal. I And I also don't think he's got
I was also going off of the the idea
that he doesn't have a criminal history
which he still may not have got and
gotten 10 years. We don't he didn't go
to trial,
>> right?
>> That's ridiculous. 10 years. You plead
guilty to 10 years. I'll go to trial for
10 years.
>> Well,
>> like this is a non this is there's not a
bunch of victims. We got one victim
here. He got railroaded.
>> All right. Well, uh, you can, uh, write
him a letter in prison. Maybe he'll send
you a signed basketball from the
exercise yard.
>> Let's leave the world of professional
rodeo and NBA and go into the world of
high school sports.
>> Okay. Can I go to the bathroom?
>> I think it's a good idea for both of us.
Yeah, you first.
>> So, we talked about rodeo, we talked
about the NBA. Let's go to high school
sports. Were you a high school athlete,
Matthew Cox?
>> You play any sports in high school? My
high I went to a high school for kids
with learning disabilities and they had
a basketball they had a basketball team.
>> All right.
>> Oh my god. I can't believe this is
horrible. They had a basketball team and
I want to say well like what is the the
minimum like like eight players or
something like whatever the
>> five people on the court at a time.
>> Oh is there? Okay. So they had five
people right? Like they had the minimum.
>> But again when you're having practices
it's good to have maybe 10 people so you
could scrimmage against yourself at
practice. They they would play other
private schools who were small schools
that had like 300 people in them. My
school had I think at the biggest year
they had was maybe
>> 20 people. Like my graduating class was
like
was it seven or eight people in my
graduating class?
>> Oh, that's really small.
>> This is tiny. This is tiny. And on the
basketball team was one of the kids was
a kid named Rodney that had Down
syndrome.
>> Oh. I went to school with Rodney with a
kid. And I'm when I say I went to
school, I mean like we were in classes
together.
>> And Rodney,
>> was he validictorian?
[Laughter]
>> He was hilarious.
>> They're all nice kid people. One of the
nicest people in the world. Happy. Yeah.
But it's it you know what's interesting
about Rodney is I always remember this
when I think we talk about doctors is
that he basically his parents had been
told and I don't know why they tell this
because I see like adult pe kids with
Down syndrome but apparently like they
die and like apparently like his parents
had been told like the whole like he'll
never learn to read. He'll never learn
to like they're like basically just just
all doom doom doom and now he's a
chiropractor. I was going to say he
listen reads better than I do.
>> Uh he was funny though. He was super He
did He did He was very strong.
>> So was basketball the only sport that
they had?
>> That was it. And I didn't play.
>> Yeah.
>> You never on the out of 20 kids, they
wouldn't take me.
>> They were like, "Gosh, what are you
doing here?" Like, "What do you mean?
What am I?
>> You got seven people on the team."
>> Yeah.
>> You'll take anyone. Rodney's playing.
>> Yeah, I was a high school wrestler.
>> I was
>> I figured Yeah, I could see that.
>> I don't know about wrestling. I don't
see wrestling, but definitely athlete.
>> I see. I could see wrestler cuz it's
like it's very disciplined.
>> Wrestlers is being shorter.
>> Yeah, most are. Most are. I'm not I was
kind of f I went to high school in
Washington DC and um and I was kind of
famous in DC with the high school
wrestling community because I was in
every other school's yearbook getting
pinned by their wrestlers. So, I was a
bit of a legend in this in the sport.
>> You see all the pictures?
>> Yeah. Right. You go to Matha High
School. There's somebody with my head on
a headlock. You go to You go to Bishop
Bishop Irtton, there's the guy like
slamming me on the ground. And so, every
different high school in their yearbooks
had a picture of me getting my ass
handed to me on the wrestling mat.
>> That's great.
>> You know who was a really good wrestler?
Um, Merrick Reading uh of Le Summit,
Missouri.
But like a lot of superstar athletes in
high school, he had trouble finding his
place in the world after the roar of the
crowd disappeared. Matt Cox, you know,
people like that who like high school
was their peak and everything after that
was just sort of downhill and
>> yes,
>> you know, they would like maybe like,
you know, they'd be 19, 20 years old
like swinging by the school to say hi to
their teachers and
>> the Al Bundy's of the world still
talking about
>> Yeah. Poke High School
>> still talking about being the winning
touchdown. Yeah.
>> Yeah. So Merrick wasn't doing well and
so at age 20 he creates a fake persona
on Snapchat. Did
>> he tell me he goes back to high school?
>> And uh somehow he uses this fake persona
to solicit nude photos from multiple
female users, some of whom were under
age 18.
Big problem.
>> It's not good.
>> Not good.
>> He's now sitting in in in Coleman Low.
>> Well, we'll we'll get there. We'll get
there. So it seems that he kind of
became addicted to this kind of custom
flavor of sex content and he began
begins trading the images that he's kind
of getting from these Snapchat girls on
online forums with other guys who are
kind of into younger girls. So he's not
just soliciting it. He's um he's now
trading it and kind of putting it out
there in the world. Uh images and videos
not good. Um, this problematic behavior
escalates when three of the girls that
he sort of had on the string, teenage
girls, wanted to stop making content. I
don't feel comfortable with this anymore
and stop making content for him. And he
threatens to distribute and publicly
post the images of them if they stop.
What with these guys, man?
>> The bad kid. The bad kid. Uh,
>> under the pressure of this coercion. And
that's really what it is, right? He's
forcing them. He's extorting them.
you're already doing something illegal.
You're going to add extortion.
>> So, these girls continue to produce
graphic images and videos like slaves
for him and teenage girls.
>> Yeah.
>> Eventually, one of the girls uh tells
the police who loops in the FBI and
Homeland Security Investigations who
open up an investigation on Merrick and
um they do a search warrant of his
iPhone and all the evidence is there.
It's all just there. Yeah. He's just
dead in the water. Uh he's later charged
with production and distribution of
child we'll say for the sake of YouTube
uh sex content. Yeah,
>> you know what the word is. Starts with a
P. As well as extortion and he pleads
guilty to all these charges in federal
prison.
>> How much time you going to give this
former high school wrestling phenomenon?
>> Yeah, he's getting I want to say 20
years, but he's probably getting let's
say gets 15.
>> Well, which is it? 15 180 months.
>> 180 months. 15.
>> Yeah. Andy pleads guilty.
>> He did plead guilty.
>> Yeah. 180.
>> He did plead guilty. He got 20 years in
prison.
>> Oh, I was so close. I was so close. I
said eight. I said, "Oh, I should have I
was low."
>> You went to You went down to 15, huh?
>> Yeah. Trying to bring you back to 20. I
wanted I wanted you to have the win. You
got 25 years of supervised release after
that, though.
>> Can you imagine?
>> 25 years of supervised release. So, if
he does real time, which I know they
never do, um he'll get out at age 40 cuz
he's 20 years old.
>> Oh, yeah.
>> And uh and then then he then he'll be on
probation till he's 65.
>> Crazy.
>> But he's 20 25 years. He's probably
>> he'll probably do
>> How much time does he do?
>> 16 to 17. It depends. I don't know if
that he's hands Well, no, he's not
hands-on. It's production. Uh so he may
>> production and distribution and
extortion of course. Yeah.
>> But he well they they you know what now
they think about they'll probably
consider the extortion violent uh a
violent charge.
>> So he will not be working on his pickle
ball game and no
>> in in some minimum security country
club.
>> No. What I'm saying is that they have
the um uh the second chance act credits
>> and but I don't think he gets those
credits.
>> So he's probably he'll do 17 years.
Maybe he'll get halfway house. Maybe
he'll do 16.
>> Will he get a chance to wrestle in
prison at all the showers? Maybe
>> there there may be some wrestling,
>> some tustling.
>> I would say about chance like it's like
this is an opportunity for him. I think
he may be a avoiding wrestling, but
there may be some wrestling.
>> Okay. Just curious.
>> And and just so you know, you are five
for 10,
>> so there should be two sto Yeah, you
were five for seven and and you lost the
last
>> We got two stories left. I also have did
an alternate story which I'll save for
next time. But I got so nervous that one
of these stories would be a repeat even
though I have a spreadsheet of
everything I ever talked to you about.
>> Did you go over this with your wife?
>> She she chose the order of them. That's
her contribution. As I do a spreadsheet,
I number them what I think and then
she's like, "No, no, this needs to be
story number six." And oh, no, no, story
number seven needs to be story number
two. And so
>> I have a question with the with the
leadins. Do you think like what's the
what what's my leadin statement on this?
>> I write it at the top. This one says,
the next one we're doing says fast food.
So, I'm gonna say
>> Matt Cox, when you're on the road, what
is your fast food restaurant of choice?
>> Oh god. I I I fast food restaurant. I
mean, I think fast food, I think
McDonald's. And I'll I always get like
the little just a little baby
cheeseburger. But
>> let's say you're driving from here to
Jacksonville to visit your friend Tom
Simon, which you never do. But uh and
>> listen, you're going on a you know, I
was in the I was thinking about this on
the way walking down the hall. I was
thinking like people will be like, "Oh
yeah, you're friends with that FBI uh
agent uh you know, retired FBI agent."
And I'm always like like, "Yeah, kind
of. We've gone out a few times like
yeah, we're you know, it's not like
we're hanging out all the time. Neither
of us are hangout guys for the I mean
it's not
>> well
>> I would have liked to have gone to um
Hollywood Horror Nights. I mean Colby
and I would have gone Keep that in mind
>> cuz I was thinking about that on the
way. I was thinking we should I was
thinking I was thinking oh I should if
Jess finds out what the tickets are I
should ask uh Colby if he wants to go
and then I thought why am I not going
with Tom?
>> I had no idea this would be your thing
honestly. Like there's some I I love
Halloween is my favorite. I love horror
movies. I love horror books. I love
haunted houses. I love all of that. It
makes me feel alive. Yeah. You know,
>> that and and and Christmas, but that's
my first one is Halloween.
>> I'm so dead inside that I need I need to
feel something. And when simulated
fright is is interesting. It's like an
endorphin rush for me. Yeah.
>> Nice.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. I love it. I love
>> that. Next year, let's um let me loop
you in next year. It's a good group of
dudes and uh and and you guys have fit
in great
>> podcasters. I'm going with a podcast
group.
>> Oh, really? Yeah. I do a comedy show.
>> Makes me even [ __ ] matter. Are you
serious? Because then I was also
thinking, well, you know what it is?
>> I'm not going to really fit in with what
his FBI buddies might not.
>> Jesus, I don't hang out with those
nerds. I hang out with cool people.
>> And now it's pastors.
>> Yeah, I'm a god.
>> I'm a regular guest on a comedy podcast
called Jim and Them. And the Jim and
Them guys and I spend a lot of social
time together. And every year we do this
Halloween Horror Nights thing.
>> What's happening?
>> I had no, man. No, but I had no idea you
would be into this. There's people out
there who I've invited to these things
are like, "Are you out of your mind?
That'd be scared to death. I' I'd have
to wear an adult diaper." I had no idea
you were a horror movie guy or a horror
um
>> Yeah. Yeah. Let's make this happen. Next
time. Next time.
>> Uh so you're driving on the highway, you
hit an exit, you're hungry, and you have
every single fast food restaurant in the
world to choose from. You go with
McDonald's.
>> Depends if it's dieting or probably
McDonald's or this is weird. Uh,
probably Dunkin Donuts or something like
coffee and and
>> maybe like I will get like a
snack and bacon. Yeah, one of those two.
Maybe
>> Starbucks cuz I think of, you know,
because I'm going to get maybe a little
a little egg bites or something like
Yeah, that's it. Go be you. Chick-fil-A
this morning. I do like Chick-fil-A. I
never think about Chick-fil-A though.
>> It's cuz Not on Sunday.
>> No.
>> Yeah. Not on Sunday.
>> No. Jess's daughter.
>> 246.
Jess's daughter 100% Chick-fil-A every
single time.
>> I knew a kid in college Chick-fil-A. I
guess if you work there through high
school and you're a good kid and all
that, they'll give you a scholarship. I
was getting his his college paid for.
>> My son went there for like four years or
five years.
>> Service is great. I mean, they they take
care of the people. What about Subway?
What are your thoughts on Subway?
>> I actually had a Subway for the first
time uh the other day. Jess and I
stopped and and got a like a
>> It's a good sandwich.
>> Yeah, the um we got the Predator. They
named it after um
>> was it? Yeah. This Huh? No. Uh Jared,
they they came out with the uh the 8 in
Predator.
>> That's funny. That is funny. They really
That's
>> But I did stop and get one.
>> It's a great
>> I told Jess, I said, "I'm going to ask
for those. I'm going to take that." Say,
"Hey, I want the new Jared subway." The
Predator just don't just don't.
>> So, there's a hospital in Las Vegas,
Nevada called Sunrise Hospital. It's a
for-profit hospital. um medical
facility. They have an emergency room
that's been in serving the community
since 1958. Sunrise Hospital Pillar in
the community next door to the hospital,
Subway Sandwich Shop, right? Maybe the
doctors go over there with the nurses,
get a foot long, give the nurse a foot
long.
>> As you said, you know, the the the
uh the career that cheats the most,
nurses.
>> Really?
>> Yeah. Horrible.
>> Horrible thinking.
Um,
the uh guy who worked at the subway,
48-year-old Roland Torres.
>> 48 working at a subway. So, everything's
going right in his life.
>> He's He's a man with a dream.
>> He's a man with a dream. I want you to
keep that in mind. Okay.
>> Okay. He wants to own one.
>> Dream big. Dream bigger than that. So,
Roland, he um you know, he sees all
these doctors and nurses coming and
going all day long. He has an idea. He
registers a business called Surgical
Innovations, incorporates it, hops on
his computer one night after he kind of
wipes the smell of salami off his hands,
and he types and he creates an invoice
for the hospital next door for $18,000
from medical supplies from Surgical
Innovations, a company that does not
exist other than as a corporate entity
and bank account that he opened up,
>> right? creates this invoice,
puts it in an envelope, sends it in the
mail to the hospital next door.
There was no one more amazed than Roland
when a few weeks later, $18,000 gets a
into his corporate bank account.
>> Unbelievable.
>> They paid the bill. Matt Cox,
he's a man with a dream.
>> Boy, he didn't start small either, did
he? Like 1,800 bucks. He always had
dreams of being an entrepreneur and
owning his own business. And so he began
invoicing the hospital a couple times
per week.
>> Just that hospital?
>> Just that hospital? The hospital next
door. Uh why why spread your wings when
you when he somehow has found himself
into their accounts payable system.
>> Mhm.
>> Um over a two-year period, the hospital
sent him $712,000.
>> Okay. Wow. not knowing that it was the
guy who makes their um their veggie
delights next door.
Um finally someone at the hospital after
two years says who the hell is Surgical
Innovations?
Begins to take a look into the whole
thing, contacts the FBI who reverse
engineers this and finds that it's
Roland at the subway next door.
>> Is he still working there?
>> Uh well, he is still all his money still
working there. He's uh Yeah. Yeah. From
what as far as I know
>> now he owns the place
>> charged with mail fraud.
>> Mhm.
>> Pleads guilty. What are you going to do?
Right. It's not like he can pretend he's
supplying doing surgical supplies,
>> right? Yeah.
>> How much money are you going to give
this man with a I mean how much time are
you going to give this man with a dream?
>> I don't I feel like that's it's a lot of
time. I feel like you plead guilty.
Yeah.
I mean, I think 30 like I'm gonna say 36
months.
>> Three years. 36 months.
>> I'm really really 20. I feel like 24.
>> Two years. $712,000.
>> Oh, $700. Okay. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa,
whoa, wait, wait, wait, wait. Hold on.
I'm sorry. I was not thinking like I for
some reason thought it was around
300,000.
>> No, $712,000.
>> Um,
48 months.
>> Yeah. Does the hospital have to share
some of this blame morally?
stupidity.
>> Yeah. Kind of like like if you're the
judge, you're the judge, you're like,
"Come on." Uh, Sunrise Hospital in Las
Vegas.
>> Yeah. 48 months. 48 months. Yes.
>> We're going with 48 months.
>> Yes.
>> Final answer.
>> Yes.
>> Correct answer. 21 months.
>> What is happening?
I thought the guidelines were supposed
to make these things more
>> The guideline. The guidelines are uh
they're um they're not binding. They're
what's the word? Advisory.
>> Advisory.
>> Mhm.
>> All right. Five for 111.
>> I never would have said Yeah. I never
would have said uh uh 21 or two years. I
would 30 I think was the lowest. I was
thinking
>> at least three.
>> All right. So, we um we decided last
episode that a passing score for Matt
Cox would be 50%.
>> Yes.
>> We're right now 5 for 11.
>> Yes.
>> We've reached the final challenge.
>> Question number 12. If you get it right,
you'll be 6 for 12, which hits your 50%
quota.
>> You get it wrong.
>> I'm not sure. I'm not sure what the
ramifications are.
>> You You'll get the little sound.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Colobby will play a
fart noise over.
>> All right. You ever heard of the um
online subculture known as incelss?
>> Yes.
>> What is an incel to your understanding?
It's an involuntary involuntary
celibate. Right.
>> Yes.
>> Right. Well, and talk to me a little bit
about what that's all about. I
>> It means that these are guys that would
like to get a girlfriend,
>> but they just can't.
>> Right. Right.
>> These they probably these are the guys
you think of that they live in their
mom's basement.
>> They're chubby. They play video games
all day. Yeah.
>> Yeah. Yeah. And uh and when they kind of
get online with each other, it becomes
sort of a toxic echo chamber.
>> Oh yeah. I think some a lot So I think
there's a a kind of a thing where they a
lot of them like or they end up being
like women haters or something.
>> Right. Right. Right. Cuz like if you or
I were bad with girls in this weird
hypothetical world, we would just, you
know, turn on the charm, get, you know,
do our, you know, improve, you know,
maybe comb our hair back,
>> maybe lose some weight, maybe
>> maybe put some maybe think it might be
me,
>> work on the bench press, come up with a
better attitude. Um,
>> you know, because there were all times
in our lives where we were involuntarily
celibate, right? I mean, guy has a dry
>> all the way up to 13. That was
>> right after that. It was Katie part of
the door. So, University of Delaware
student Kyle Stevens, weird dude, bad
with women. He tried to ask out two
fellow students at the University of
Delaware, Sarah and Carrie. They were
just kind of creeped out by him and and
not interested in going on dates with
him.
>> That infuriated Kyle. He took these
rejections hard and he embraced the
incel or involuntary celibate lifestyle
in the communities online. Kind of going
allin with hate toward women, not
understanding how counterproductive that
is toward his ultimate goal of getting
the love of his life. But he really kind
of was very focused on Sarah and Carrie,
the girls who rejected him when he asked
them out. And he begins emailing and
texting them threatening to kill them.
Yeah,
not cool. Um, describing violent
fantasies of bashing their skulls in and
eating their kidneys. Really violent
stuff. Like totally off the rails.
>> I mean, what's he thinking? Like, like,
wow, I didn't know you feel that way.
Can we meet at Starbucks? Like, what do
you
>> Yeah, this is a revenge play at this
point. He has grown to hate these girls.
He then contacts Sarah's dad on
Facebook, threatening to kill her in
messages to her father. He was
relentless, just off the rails with his
behavior.
>> Um, so during COVID, he ends up going to
Germany and continues his harassment
campaign while he's in Germany, kind of
like, you know, taking classes remotely
um in October 2020. Um, but from
Germany, he also does something. He
submits 10 fraudulent applications for
COVID relief loans for businesses that
did not exist while he's while he's in
Germany. And because the no one was
watching the store at the Small Business
Administration, Kyle gets $1.5 million
into his bank account in COVID relief
loans.
>> He's got all kinds of problems.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Um and so the cyber
harassment, which they contact the FBI
about, and the COVID loan scheme, which
also triggers an FBI investigation
together,
um culminates in cyberstalking and fraud
charges. Kyle gets a twofer.
right?
>> Does he plead guilty? Um,
>> he's got to.
>> And they were able to seize the money in
his bank account and recover most of it.
Okay. And so, um, so the net loss to the
government isn't much, but he got away
with the money. It was in his bank
account, but he just hadn't spent it
down yet. Um
he they also do a search warrant of his
uh home/ apartment/dorm room wherever he
was living back when he was in Delaware
and they find his um private diaries and
they seize those. The FBI does and and
there's lots of complaining diary
entries about how life isn't fair. And
he justified in his diary his his
harassment of Sarah and Carrie saying
that that um and the justifying the
fraud at first saying that he had grown
up poor and that's what justified him
doing this fraudulent COVID relief scam.
And then he justifies uh his harassment
of Sarah and Carrie in his diary saying
that if they would not love him, Matt
Cox, they would fear him.
>> That's how he wrote it. Yeah,
>> without the words Matt Cox,
>> right?
>> Yeah.
>> Sounds like he pulled it off.
>> The Germans extradited him. Kyle wasn't
coming back voluntarily. Um but he was
an American citizen, so they had So
Germany is like, "You take him,
>> right?"
>> Um into the hands of the FBI in
Delaware. and he pleads guilty to both
the $ 1.5 million COVID relief fraud and
the cyber harassment of these two girls
who did nothing wrong other than turn
him down when he asked them on a date.
>> Combining those two crimes together and
his admission of guilt to those two
crimes, Matt Cox, how much time are you
going to give former University of
Delaware student Kyle Stevens?
72 months.
>> 72 months.
>> Yeah.
>> Talk to me about your thought process. I
want to I want to get inside the the
mind of Matt Cox.
>> I mean, I'm thinking that he the one
point the 1.2, you know, the money he
gets there. I mean, I'm I'm I'm stacking
them because I'm thinking,
>> you know, because if you plead guilty, a
lot of times they'll just run it
concurrent. Like, it might be five year.
I think for that he probably got four
years.
>> But then I also think about the bullying
and all that. Let's say another three
years for the the cyber stalking. Let's
say you add just put and put them
together. So I was just thinking two
different cases for the cyber bullying.
I would think you would get a few years,
right? Because they take it very
seriously. I said two three years. So
let's say three years and then I think
the and so yeah, that's what I'm
thinking the combination. I'm thinking
you stack them instead of running them
>> concurrently.
>> Okay. And so and that's what how many
months you said? Uh 72,
>> which is what? Six years.
>> Six years.
>> Okay.
>> Are we ready for the correct answer? You
want to talk this out a little more or
second guess?
>> No, because you're not helping me at
all. You didn't tell me up. You didn't
help me up or down?
>> Yeah. I'm not really Yeah. No, this is
You get to sink or swim based on your
own intelligence.
>> The judge sentenced him to 7 years in
prison.
>> Yeah, I'm good.
>> You did it, my man.
>> Nice.
>> You got a future in this podcasting
business.
>> We got a long day today. Going from here
to Orlando to Halloween Horror Nights.
So, I'm tell you right now, if you
haven't done it,
figure out right now how to go pay for
the fastass.
>> My my friend, you don't know who you're
talking about.
>> Okay.
>> I do the RIP pass.
>> What is that?
>> Okay.
>> It's even better.
>> It's Yeah. You get You get there.
>> You get there, they take you to the
buffet, you have a free free meal, all
the drinks, the guide comes to you and
your 12 friends and says, "All right, my
name's Candy. Uh, I'll be taking you
around today." And, uh, let's go. And
then they walk then they walk you
backstage. You take a look at all the
people putting their makeup on. She
talks about the theme. They go, "Okay,
let's go to the first house." And then
she walks you and your group to the
first house and past the fastass people,
past the unwashed standing in line. You
go through the haunted house. Candi's
waiting for you there at the
>> Please tell me you're recording this.
The unwashed that he just said you walk
past. Sorry. The pores and
>> the commoners. the yeah the the pores
and uh I want them to put a screen up so
I don't have to look at them. I asked
Candy to tell them not to look me in the
eye.
>> She brings a shade a shading device to
put between you and
>> I'd rather them not look me in the eye
and um
>> and then I feel like walking through
first class. They look up at you for a
second and they look back down.
>> Yeah. But um no, it's amazing. And so
you do you see you do all the houses,
all the scare zones, you have a guided
tour and like at this one, what we're
trying to really get across here is now
Chucky is an adult and he's no longer a
baby doll. He's a fullg grown doll, but
the bun and they kind of tell you the
theme. You go through it, she waits for
you, you walk to the next one and like,
hey. And she, okay, we'll be stopping to
use the bathroom right now and and but
the whole time you're walking to the
front of the line. It's like that scene
in Good Fellas. It's amazing.
>> How much does that cost? Uh, I don't
even know because well I mean
>> how much money are you making on these
flyers?
>> I haven't figured out an angle to make
money on it yet. But what happens is
like eight months before I go my friend
says, "Hey, this is how much it's going
to be." And I moment I mean I think it's
like 700 bucks or something like that or
>> extra
>> uh
>> 700 bucks for a ticket.
>> Yeah.
>> Or you mean for the that included your
your B Airbnb?
>> No, no, no. I mean, I my I'm flopping
with some friends who are in town, so
they're the the ticket. It's I mean,
it's an expensive night, but it's the
only way to do it.
>> Are is Are these on?
>> Yes, they are recording. They're
recording now. Yeah. Yeah.
>> I'm just saying it's a it's an
indulgence. It's a nice thing like
flying first class. You do it every now
and then. It makes you feel great. You
invest in yourself. Matt,
>> hold on.
>> You're a big shot,
>> baby. Come. I need you to look into the
RIP
pass for
>> Halloween Horror Nights.
>> Halloween Horror Nights.
>> It's amazing.
>> Period.
>> We doing this.
>> And how bad is it? Like how bad? Like,
cuz I don't really read the comments on
the videos that we send out of you being
on the show. You mentioned it one time.
>> You're like, I get I I get comments from
people that say like, "How dare you go
on this guy's show? How dare you um
participate with this guy? Like how bad
are those? Are they that are there a lot
of them?
>> No, I think again you're more popular
than I am objectively as far as like you
know your your your fame level and so um
so I think I think people are
>> makes you feel better is probably just
based on looks.
>> Fair enough. I can it's a hard pill to
swallow but but um that's funny
and ridiculous. What's funny is whenever
I talk I say something about you. I'm
like I he said this thing he was we were
laughing. I said he's a little out there
and Jess what Jess go I go and I'm
always so shocked at how tall and what a
big guy Tom is. And she goes, "Oh, Tom's
jacked." And I'm like, "Okay, yeah,
thank you."
>> Yeah, I already established that. I
didn't need the commentary.
>> I am 6 feet tall, Matt. That's how tall
an adult man should be.
>> I understand. I'm average height for a
woman which means 50% of all women are
just off limits and the other 50% don't
want to date a guy that's their height.
>> Yeah, but I think you're um
>> No, but I mean you clearly like you
worked out. You got the whole You
>> worked out too.
>> I dude I haven't worked out in months.
>> Let's do a pose down.
>> Listen, my gut when I walk walked in the
bathroom this morning. I And I've been
doing this for about two months now. I
walk in and I go, you what are you
doing, bro? You got to start working out
again.
>> I do I I go to a gym now, a different
gym. And every 13 weeks they do a full
body scan of you.
>> How much money your do investigators
make?
>> Well, it's not that expensive of a
thing. And uh
>> everything you've said, you're like,
it's not even expensive. And this is
$700. It's no more than it's no more
than like a CrossFit gym. And my point
is this, my labs were terrible. Like I
my rather my my body fat percentage was
bad. And so now, so on June 30, I
started going on a very strict diet and
now I'm down like 16 pounds.
>> Whoa. 16 lbs.
>> Yeah. So I'm trying to get down to 195.
>> I stopped at Dunkin Donuts. I stopped. I
was sitting when I said I was in my car
for 5 minutes. I was eating a a
croissant sandwich.
>> Like
I'm I'm so I'm nowhere near this.
>> My point though is that you need to get
back in the gym. You got a great frame.
>> I do.
>> Hey, listen. It doesn't take much for
short guys to look jacked. I
>> Right. Tall guys all look like LeBron
James if they if they got muscles. But
you could look like a bodybuilder.
>> I I You're right. And I could if I had
that.
>> Look how good it did carrot top in his
uh career.
>> It killed him.
You know what it I
Okay, listen. The other day I was
sitting on the couch and and we Jess and
I were both like, "We've got to start
losing weight. We got to get on diet."
And I looked at her and I said, "Do you
understand the level of commitment and
discipline that I had when I got out of
prison was at 150%." I said, "I have
lost all of that. I don't have any
discipline."
>> The first time I did the show, you were
up at in the morning with Jess
going to the gym every day. Absolutely.
And all the comments when we wore our
matching black shirts at your request
were jacked.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. That's all I don't get those
comments anymore. Now it's like listen
tubby.
>> Yeah. No, I I I have to, you know, I and
and we keep Jess and I keep doing the
whole we travel so much. We this and
that. But you know what's so funny is
that my buddy James travels all the time
and and we'll go on like a little three
or four day vacation. We'll go to the
same hotel. He's up every morning. He
and his his fiance are up every morning
working out. He's like, "Hey, you want
to meet us at the gym tomorrow morning?"
We're like, "What?"
>> Here's my pitch to you, man. That he he
goes he finds a gym wherever he is. And
he goes,
>> "You had 13 years 13 years in prison."
>> Close. Almost. Yeah.
>> Of your life stolen from you, right?
Where where I mean just like someone
took that it's a pie chart. Someone took
a 13-year piece of pie and removed it
and removed it off the table.
>> Longevity for you should be a priority.
>> I I listen I've had this conversation. I
know. I' I've And I've said
>> I'm saying this as a friend. I'm saying
this as a friend that
>> No, you're right. that that that you
know that there's nothing more you know
I'm your age I'm 55 years old and right
now I'm looking into the last quarter of
my life right and uh and I want to make
that as productive as possible and be
able to you know do things when I'm 60
and when I'm 70 years old and not be
hurt and not be you know have trouble
getting out of bed and complaining about
this and have chronic health problems
right
>> um again and you should have this should
even more urgent for you because again
you had this hunk of your life stolen
from you. There's nothing more important
than your health.
>> I thought you were going to say
something mean.
>> No, because you're short.
>> No, short people die earlier. No.
>> Well, no. No. I I think if anything, uh,
us human giants die earlier.
>> Actually, you do. Short people live long
a little longer. But not not the way I'm
living.
>> No. I mean, Hervey Viche lasted till age
like uh, you know, Tattoo from Fantasy
Island. He
>> Oh, really?
>> I think he was in his 70s or 80s. Billy
Barty um or
>> the plane.
>> Um no, no, no. Listen, and I I I know
all this because and I've said this many
many times. I Why? The guy was like,
"Bro, why are you working out all the
time? Why are you running like three
miles a day? Why are you doing I was
like, bro, I I got to [ __ ] I got to
live longer than everybody else because
I said I I have a huge chunk of my life
that was removed."
>> Um
>> speaking of habit, you brush your teeth
on habit.
>> I I was in a habit. I'm telling you, we
broke the habit at some point and we
have had the last year has been a
struggle to get back into it. Okay,
that's the problem. Like I don't not
know this.
>> Okay, here's an answer.
>> What?
>> Overpay for a gym.
>> I
seriously overpay for a gym. And then it
then every day that you don't go, you're
like, Christ, they're hitting my bank
account for 200 bucks whether I go or
not.
>> Yeah. You know what it it's funny? I
used to um
uh I used to lose sunglasses all the
time
>> and Ray-B bands came out and I paid like
$300 for a pair of Ray-B bands. You took
care of that. I never lost those that
same theory. Same theory. Yeah.
>> It's like if you buy a Mont Blanc pen,
you don't lose your pen. Right. It's a
$250 pen.
>> Exactly. I've been broke. You've been
broke. You begin to appreciate the value
of a dollar then and you make sure that
you're going to spend your money wisely.
>> Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to I need to Yeah.
I I'm I'm I'm going to and Jess and I
had this conversation and we just got
Listen to this.
>> We could definitely do the carnivore
diet because we got a huge shipment in
from
um
>> Omaha. Yeah. From Omaha. Yeah. And we
one is is our one of our sponsors, but
And we ate the steaks.
>> And bro, they were [ __ ] good as [ __ ]
Yeah.
>> I mean, we ate the steaks. We ate matter
of fact, listen, we even ate, you know,
they sent us all kinds. They sent us hot
dogs. We cut up the hot dogs. We made
them. We And they sent us
um I don't know if you know this. They
have uh it's a dessert. It was like an
apple. It's like an apple pie thing that
like we had no idea. We thought, "Oh,
we're getting some steaks."
>> Mhm.
>> We've been eating this [ __ ] Not they're
not helping either now that I
>> What are we in it now?
>> Oh, I weighed in this morning 183. Okay.
>> At my height, which is not good. I
should be
>> 165.
>> Right. Right. I'm almost 20 pounds
overweight,
>> man. That's where I I was, again, I came
in at 218 on June 30 and uh and my goal
is to get down to 195. So, I'm kind of
on the road to that right now. And and
most of that's happening uh in the
kitchen, right? So, the you know, you
can be a big strong guy with big
muscles, but still have like crazy bad
body fat and and a you know, weight
that's out of this control and it's
going to tax your liver, tax your
kidneys, and all that. Um my diet is the
easiest one in the world. 2,000 calories
a day, 200 grams of protein. Everything
else is a free run.
>> Oh yeah, just hit those two numbers. Get
a little app on your phone, hit the hit
the barcode and everything you're eating
and drinking and then uh it's snack. I
you know what I also thought? I thought
having this the new studio would help.
>> Mhm.
>> Cuz I thought, well, I'll be out of the
house more. It hadn't done it because
that my problem is snacking. I go
downstairs, I get something real quick,
I go upstairs. Yeah. An hour later, I
come back. I eat something else. I go
upstairs. I go back. Before you know it,
I'm like, I'm at 4,000 calories right
now. Like, this is ridiculous.
>> You're an incredibly famous YouTuber.
You're a national treasure. You need to
take care of yourself, right?
>> Listen, the funniest thing I I went in
to get something for Jess the other day
at like CVS. And I walked in and I went
to the counter and the guy looked at me
and he goes, he was ringing it up. He
looked at me and he goes, "Are you a
famous YouTuber?" And I go, "I am a
famous YouTuber.
Nobody's ever said that. Like they're
like, "You're Matt Cox, but are you?" I
said, "I am." He's like, "Yeah, you do
true crime, right?" I was like, "Yeah,
>> I get, "Are you the FBI guy?" Which is a
tough question, right? Because I'm no
longer the FBI. I can't be claiming to
be the FBI guy, but I used to be,
>> right?
>> Yeah. That's good though. It's that's
great.
>> So, we doing this?
>> Yeah. That will be, you know, that will
make probably make some make it
somewhere in the end.
>> That's fine. Hello, Cox.
>> So good to be here with you again.
>> Okay. Yes. Thank you. They think
>> early morning.
>> Yeah.
>> People, your fans don't know this, but
we're doing this early in the morning.
Yes. It was like a like a wacky morning
show. The morning zoo.
>> And you gave me the option to sleep in
like an extra hour or so, and I didn't
take it. And boy, when that alarm went
off at this morning, I thought,
"Fuck, that was a mistake."
>> Yeah.
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and use code cox at the checkout. So,
last night I stayed at the Seminal uh
casino right across the street.
>> Yeah,
>> it's amazing. Place is fantastic. Guests
at the Mad [ __ ] show should stay there
and you need to figure out how to get
them to sponsor you so your guests stay
there for free. Specifically me.
>> Yeah, I know you mentioned it. You
played poker.
>> I did. I did. So, I'm going to stop
bitching and moaning about you not
paying for my gas money because I can
make it at the poker table at the casino
now when I come see you.
Wayne, would you make I made 100 bucks.
>> See, I just feel like that's wrong. I
feel like I don't know why gambling to
me, I immediately think gambling is
illegal, but it's not illegal.
>> No, it's perfectly legal because the
seminal Indian tribe, in fact, I I'm
like I asked the lady at the front desk.
I I'll tell you a couple stories about
this and you can use them or not use it
and cut it out if it's boring. Um lady
at the front desk, uh nice lady, I said,
"Here, question for you." I go, "This is
all legal, right?" Because it's a
seminal Indian tribe that owns it. And
she goes, "Yeah, how long you worked
here?" She goes, "Five years." I go,
"You ever seen or met a seinal Indian?"
And she's like, "No." And I go, "I think
they're like leprechauns.
I'm not sure they exist."
>> Okay.
>> But I had the greatest hotel room of my
life. And so I'm going to give you a
gift today. Here's the gift. I'm going
to teach you something that you don't
know that in and you're going to invest
in yourself. Matt Cox, I've been doing
this now for 20 years. every every hotel
I go to or if you book your room through
hotels.com
or Expedia or one of those places, it's
a discounted room and the hotel is not
making as much money as they would if
you wandered in off the streets. Right.
>> Right.
>> They're not happy with you.
>> Right. But there's a remedy to that and
I'm going to show you the remedy. So
what I do is whenever I get a
reservation, doesn't matter how you make
the reservation, I walk up to the front
desk lady. She's like, "Hi, how are you
checking in? You got your suitcase?" And
you I go I am checking in but before I
do I just want to let you know how crazy
it is that I I go I travel on business
all the time. I'm always on the road.
And I go and it's never ever made sense
to me that everyone in the entire
hospitality industry is being taken care
of except for you people at the front
desk. You look at the valet parking
guys. These guys are morons. And I go
and I go they can't even fold their
wallets at the end of a shift. They're
getting tipped so much. Meanwhile, you
probably have a um degree in
hospitality, right? She said, "Why yes I
do." And I said, uh, I said, ' Yet, no
one ever takes care of. You're on your
feet for eight hours a day. You're the
front door to this organization. You're
running this hotel as far as I'm
concerned. So, I just want to let you
know how much I appreciate everything
you do. And you take a $20 bill. You
reach over and you set it on her
keyboard. And I go, "My name's Tom
Simon. I'm checking in. If you could get
me a decent room, I'd appreciate it."
>> I've been doing this for 20 years, and
the rooms I get are majestic, Matt. When
I was an FBI agent in Honolulu, Hawaii,
I would often travel to um Kauaii and
Maui and I would do that and I would get
these amazing suites overlooking the
ocean and uh you know like my own hoola
girls. It was it was remarkable. Last
night I do it and I get the biggest
hotel room I've ever stayed in in my
life right down the street at the casino
hotel.
>> And I mean I I was alone, right? So it
wasn't like I was like balling out of
control with with a bunch of friends or
anything like that. But it had like a
giant living room, stocked bar, huge
bedroom. The bathroom was like, you
know, bigger than my first apartment.
>> It wasn't the one that that was in the
bowels with no windows of the original
hotel room you were going to get.
>> Right. Exactly. Exactly.
>> Yeah. Let's take him out of the center.
>> And I' I've AB tested this thing that I
do, this this pre-tipping of the front
desk lady for 20 bucks. The other thing
they'll often do is they'll copy on the
parking. They'll give you free breakfast
coupons. And this 20 bucks will pay for
itself. Yeah. beyond just the great room
you're going to get and it's always an
upgrade of some kind
>> which is always probably which is
probably just at their discretion
anyway. Yeah. Anybody who complains
front desk people have so much control
over the quality of your stay. They know
where the frat party is. They can put
you next door to that or they can put
you not next door to that. They know
where the ice machine is. They can put
you near it if you want or far away
sometimes. And this lady last night they
say to you, "What kind of room do you
want? What are you looking for?" And I
go, "You know what? put me in the room
you would put your mother in if you
wanted to show her a really really
special time here at the hotel. She
goes, "Got it." And boy oh boy did she
ever last night. So, it is a pleasure to
be with you today after the best night's
sleep of my life and winning a hundred
bucks at this lovely casino.
>> Well, then we're going to have to uh
we're going to look into that. I'm
definitely going to try that. I'll try
that next time.
>> Try it next time. In and again, to be
clear, I mentioned this. I AB tested
with other FBI agents that I would
travel with, right,
>> who didn't do it. And then I'd like, you
know, we we would check in and I would
do my his spiel and then he would like
get his his room at the government rate
and I go, "Let's meet back in and we'll
go go out to dinner in an hour. We'll
get started with work or whatever." We
meet back in the lobby. What's your room
like? He goes, "It's fine. Kind of
small. I think it looks out of the
dumpster." And they go, "What's your
room like?" I go, "Oh, really?" Cuz I'm
on the top floor. I got a suite. I got a
hoola girl. I'm overlooking the ocean,
but the I can also see the pool, too.
And they were like, "Why'd you do that?"
And I go, "Come with me, kid. I'll tell
you."
So, my gift to you, my gift to your
fans. You do this, you're going to I've
had women cry at the front desk leaders.
>> No, you have.
>> Oh my god. They've never been tipped in
their lives. These women are making
nothing at the front desk.
>> And
>> so, you're doing it for them.
>> Yeah. I'm a I'm a hero. I give and I
give and I give. Not all heroes wear
capes, Matt. I'm a licensed private
investigator in Florida, but I work in
all 50 states, but my specialty are
people who've been ripped off in frauds
and swindles. I I have some methods that
I use to try to get their money back.
And so if your if your listeners ever
need help in any of the 50 states
because they feel that they've been
defrauded, they can contact me for a
free consultation at my website,
simoninvestigations.com.
And thank you so much for having me on
the show. Hey you guys, I appreciate you
watching. Do me a favor, hit the
subscribe button, hit the bell so you
get notified of videos like this. Also,
if you want to be a uh if you want to be
a guest of the show, hit go to the des
into the description box, hit the link,
it'll take you there. You can leave a
short video, fill out a very, very brief
form, and uh we'll contact you. Also,
we're going to leave uh we're going to
leave Tom Simon uh his his Simon
Investigations
Investigations.
>> Yeah, Simon Investigations on Tik Tok,
Instagram, and YouTube.
>> Yeah, we're going to leave all of those
uh links in the description box, so you
can click on those and go straight there
if you want to contact him. Once again,
I appreciate you guys watching. Thank
you very much. Do me a favor, share the
video and I will see you.
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