00:00 The goal is to make your money work

00:03 twice. Once for profit and once for

00:05 purpose. And over the next six or seven

00:07 years, we flipped over a thousand houses

00:09 in the New Jersey area. We built 500,000

00:11 ft of self- storage that year and paid

00:14 zero taxes and decided maybe we built

00:16 the wrong widget. And then three

00:18 salvations came out of it on one

00:20 property in the last 90 days. And we

00:21 have 100 million closing just this

00:23 summer. $84 million deal that traded 5

00:25 years ago. We're picking it up at almost

00:27 50 cents on the dollar. Welcome back to

00:28 another episode of the M19 podcast.

00:30 Today we're over here at Big Cedar Lodge

00:32 in Pays Valley getting ready for an

00:33 amazing trip. And uh today I've got

00:36 somebody with over $650 million uh worth

00:39 of real estate in their fund, over 4,000

00:42 units. But the coolest part about it is

00:44 that they're doing some faithdriven

00:46 initiatives for all of their tenants.

00:48 And so I really love seeing those types

00:50 of things. I've got none other than

00:52 Steve Libman with me. What's up?

00:54 >> Thanks for having me, man. Appreciate

00:55 it.

00:56 >> Yeah, dude. Not a bad backdrop.

00:57 >> No, it's not bad at all. It's funny. I

01:00 uh we were just chatting about it and

01:01 you were telling me about it. I'm like,

01:02 "Dude, we had to have met a while ago

01:04 cuz there's not many guys doing that."

01:05 And I remember um someone telling me

01:08 about that and it turns out now we're

01:09 back together.

01:10 >> Yeah. Well, I saw the M19 group and I

01:12 was like, you know, maybe I should jump

01:14 in in this.

01:15 >> Yeah. So,

01:15 >> dude, that's awesome. So, tell me about

01:18 uh the business. What's the name? And

01:19 and you you explain it way better than

01:22 me.

01:22 >> Yeah. No, so it's investing with

01:23 purpose. Okay. Right. And we the goal is

01:25 to really try to bridge the gap between

01:28 how do we align our faith and our

01:30 finances. The Lord has been speaking to

01:31 us over years about how do we really

01:35 minister on site in the real estate that

01:37 we own, right? So, we're stewarding not

01:39 just investor capital but the tenants

01:41 that live in our properties, right? And

01:44 you know, it's kind of grown from how do

01:46 we give from the income that we're

01:48 making to how do we serve the tenants on

01:51 site and actually change the DNA of the

01:53 communities that we're doing. So

01:55 faith-driven private equity firm, we are

01:57 raising capital and deploying it into

01:59 multif family housing. We have some

02:00 student housing and uh and some other

02:02 opportunistic type of properties, but

02:05 the goal is to make your money work

02:08 twice. Once for profit and once for

02:10 purpose.

02:10 >> I love it. So you guys as a firm, are

02:14 you guys operating any of these or

02:16 you're just raising capital and

02:17 partnering with operators?

02:18 >> Yeah, so it's an interesting model that

02:20 we co-GP every deal. So we have

02:22 governance and oversight rights and we

02:24 sign on all the debt, but typically

02:26 people bring us deals that we're going

02:28 to fund and we'll bring 90 to 95% of the

02:30 capital through our fund into that and

02:33 then we co-GP the deal.

02:34 >> Yep. That's how we did ours. Um, you

02:37 know, I started Peneta Capital back in

02:39 2021 and uh, we probably bought like

02:41 five buildings and so it was the same

02:43 deal like operators would come to us

02:45 with great deals and you know, we knew

02:47 the operators and stuff and so we would

02:49 raise the money, co-GP it and you know

02:51 run the deal together.

02:52 >> Yeah. And it's been working out very

02:54 well because when we did a SWAT

02:55 assessment years ago, right, the

02:57 strengths, weaknesses, opportunities,

02:58 threats, was like what's the biggest

03:00 threat? And this was pre-COVID and it

03:02 was high interest rates, inflation, or a

03:04 downturn. And we didn't know that any of

03:07 those things were coming. We knew,

03:09 [laughter] you know, that we couldn't

03:11 that we didn't have a track record of

03:12 operating through it. So that's when we

03:14 stopped being the owner and the operator

03:16 and started partnering with folks with

03:18 you know 1 2 3 5 billion under

03:20 management that have been in the game

03:21 for 20 30 years and you know that way it

03:25 can kind of derisk the investment for

03:26 our investors.

03:27 >> Yeah. So when did you guys found the

03:29 company and grow it to how did it grow

03:31 to the size?

03:32 >> Yeah. So been in business for 15 years

03:34 started wholesaling residential

03:36 property. Okay.

03:37 didn't have any money and we said, "All

03:40 right, well, what's the the lowest

03:41 barrier to entry?" And it was

03:42 wholesaling

03:43 >> and then we would save some money and

03:45 then we would flip and over the next six

03:47 or seven years, we flipped over a

03:49 thousand houses in the New Jersey area.

03:51 >> Nice.

03:51 >> Um, and it was a big machine and we were

03:53 getting crushed on taxes. And one of our

03:57 probably at one of our events that we

03:58 were at together, somebody was like,

03:59 "Oh, you should look into commercial

04:01 real estate, multif family housing.

04:03 There's significant depreciation

04:04 benefits to it." I didn't believe them,

04:06 of course. So, I went and read the tax

04:08 code and turns out Trump was right when

04:11 he said that, you know, we all play by

04:13 the same rules essentially and

04:14 commercial real estate gives you some

04:15 significant tax benefits. So, we built

04:17 500,000 square feet of self- storage

04:19 that year and paid zero taxes and

04:22 decided maybe we built the wrong widget.

04:25 >> So, self storage was the first thing you

04:27 got into.

04:27 >> Yep. And that was just because of the

04:29 partner. The partner that brought

04:30 >> He just brought you the deal. You're

04:31 like, "All right, you know what? So we

04:32 we raised 4 million bucks into the first

04:35 deal that we did and that was

04:37 >> goodness, 1193 self- storage units. So

04:40 it was a big project in Orlando right at

04:43 the right time before the market started

04:45 going crazy. And

04:46 >> this is like what 2018?

04:47 >> Yeah. This is probably 2017.

04:50 >> Yeah. Okay.

04:51 >> And then uh once we started to break

04:53 ground, the guy across the street put up

04:55 a big sign that said 100,000 square ft

04:58 of self storage and it was literally

05:00 right across the street.

05:00 >> Wow. Oh, you're like, "Dude, crap."

05:02 >> I was like, "Uhoh, that's going to hurt

05:03 absorption." Yeah. [clears throat] So,

05:04 we went and bought that piece of land

05:06 from them and turned it into a RV

05:08 covered boat

05:09 >> just to protect your investment.

05:11 >> Exactly. Um, so yeah, so we did those

05:14 three projects, paid zero in taxes, and

05:16 then we shut down the wholesale flip

05:17 business and said, "Let's just go all in

05:19 on to private equity."

05:21 >> Talk to me about that because I'm kind

05:23 of in that boat. I've been flipping and

05:26 wholesaling for over a decade now. And

05:29 uh you know, obviously I got like lots

05:30 of other businesses and M19 being one of

05:33 them.

05:33 >> Yeah.

05:34 >> And you know, they're they're more

05:35 lucrative. They're more fun. [snorts]

05:38 And uh this one's good. [laughter]

05:40 >> Yeah. You know, getting to play golf

05:41 with cool guys is a tough gig, but

05:43 someone's got to do it.

05:44 >> Yeah, I guess. So [laughter]

05:45 >> I'll I'll I'll sacrifice. But um yeah,

05:49 I've just kind of thought about that and

05:50 I'm like, man, it makes money and it's

05:53 profitable, but

05:54 >> is it a distraction? You know, like you

05:56 know,

05:58 >> what what was the thing for you guys?

05:59 You guys did a thousand.

06:00 >> Yeah. So, I think one was I mean it's

06:03 it's a big machine, right? To manage

06:05 that many contractors and salespeople

06:07 and just the marketing spend alone on

06:09 the we buy houses postcards is a lot.

06:12 And you know, I think we always wanted

06:15 to move into what we would consider more

06:17 of a passive investment or a longer term

06:19 hold and just get the tax benefits from

06:21 it. Um, but then it was really the the

06:25 service and stewardship piece of it,

06:27 right? So, h how do we integrate our uh

06:31 ministry into this marketplace piece?

06:33 And by owning and operating properties,

06:35 it gave us a much longer time horizon to

06:38 really serve the people that lived there

06:41 and could create some different ministry

06:43 kind of opportunities that you couldn't

06:45 do in a vacant house that you were

06:46 flipping,

06:47 >> right?

06:47 >> You know, so now when we look at how

06:49 many acquisitions we're going to do or

06:51 how many units we're going to buy, it's

06:53 families, right? It's it's souls

06:55 literally in the in the buildings and

06:58 it's instead of buying 360 units, it's

07:01 we're going to be able to serve 360

07:02 families, right?

07:03 >> And it really just

07:06 meshed much better than um than flipping

07:09 for us from the from the ministry side

07:11 of it.

07:12 >> Right. So with that, like did you start

07:16 doing it from the faith side right from

07:18 the jump or did that develop over time?

07:20 >> No, it it developed over time. Actually,

07:22 the first deal that we ever did, you

07:24 know, we were trying to figure out how

07:26 do we give more abundantly before we

07:28 quote unquote make it,

07:29 >> right?

07:29 >> And just through some prayer time, the

07:31 Lord was like, "Well, just partner with

07:33 me on every deal and give 1% pass your

07:36 tithe to a nonprofit."

07:38 >> Okay.

07:38 >> And over the next, you know, maybe five

07:40 or six years, we supported 42 different

07:43 nonprofits.

07:44 >> Mhm.

07:45 >> And it was good. It wasn't as fulfilling

07:48 as I thought it would be. writing a

07:49 check to an organization, digging wells

07:52 in Africa. I it was good work, but it

07:55 wasn't fulfilling to us. And I think

07:57 that that was in obedience kind of

07:59 thing, right? Where it was like give X

08:02 to these nonprofits and just be obedient

08:04 and do it.

08:04 >> Yeah. It's not about you. And then it

08:06 was, you know, we I have a mentor who

08:09 has 40,000 units, been in the business

08:11 40 years, and he's a he's a believer,

08:14 and he commissioned a study that showed

08:16 that 90 million people in the United

08:18 States live in some form of multif

08:20 family housing. 92 to 94% of them are

08:23 unchurched.

08:24 >> Wow.

08:24 >> And that doesn't mean that they're not

08:26 believers, but it just means that they

08:27 don't identify with the local church

08:28 that they go to.

08:29 >> They're not active members.

08:30 >> Mostly the transient lifestyle of

08:32 renters and that community. So I said,

08:34 "Well, what if we brought the church

08:36 inside the walls of the communities that

08:38 we that we build, right? And then you

08:40 can So we're starting to give free

08:42 apartments to ministers that live on

08:44 site that do bi-weekly events. Every two

08:47 weeks they're serving the tenants in

08:48 some different ways, movies under the

08:50 stars, you know, um coffee and donuts in

08:53 the morning." Yeah. Yeah. And and then

08:55 every 90 days we actually go with our

08:57 investors and do an investor survey day

08:58 where we will throw a big party, bounce

09:01 houses, cotton candy machines, touch a

09:02 truck and all that stuff and actually

09:04 let our investors come on site with us

09:07 to see not just where the investment is

09:10 making this temporal return, but where

09:11 God's moving in the community and making

09:13 an internal one. You guys know I love

09:14 the game of golf and that is why I

09:16 started M19. It is a golf mastermind for

09:19 entrepreneurs who are doing over seven

09:21 figures in their business and who want

09:22 to go on bucket list golf trips

09:24 together. We already have hundreds of

09:26 members all across the country and we've

09:28 been to some of the best courses in the

09:29 world. Places like Pebble Beach,

09:31 Pinehurst, Bandon Dunes, and many

09:33 others. The course is the best place to

09:34 do deals, make great relationships, and

09:36 have fun. So go to mastermind 19.com

09:39 today.

09:39 >> I love it. Yeah. So, we have a nonprofit

09:42 called Tent Makers where we launch Bible

09:44 stud. And it's it's a similar idea in

09:45 that I'm like, man, I'm I'm looking at

09:47 every office in the world, and I'm like,

09:50 you know, if I got a believer in the

09:52 office who's the CEO, you could do

09:53 whatever you want. You own the business.

09:54 And I'm like, why are we not launching

09:56 Bible studies in your office for your

09:58 employees? And it's usually, bro, I

10:00 would love that. I just don't know where

10:02 to start. I don't know how to. We're

10:04 like, dude, we got you.

10:05 >> Yeah.

10:05 >> We'll teach you how to do all of that.

10:07 And so we launched that a few years ago

10:10 and now there's, you know, 150 Bible

10:12 studies that meet every week, you know,

10:14 in offices on Zoom if they're a remote

10:17 team and everything else. And it's it's

10:19 been a blessing. But it it's the similar

10:21 idea of like, man,

10:23 >> you spend more time at work than you do

10:25 >> That's right.

10:26 >> anywhere else. Like how do we make an

10:27 impact at work?

10:28 >> Yeah. And I think as entrepreneurs, we

10:31 need to and I've seen this moving in in

10:33 the marketplace recently since the

10:36 Charlie Kirk thing and

10:38 >> believers just becoming more bold about

10:39 their faith and speaking out about it.

10:41 Even you, right? I mean, you you've

10:42 become more outspoken about your faith.

10:44 And I think that encourages other

10:47 business owners, entrepreneurs, but that

10:49 is what can change the fabric of society

10:51 when when as believers we stand up, we

10:54 be bold, we invite not just our

10:57 believing friends, but our non-believing

10:58 friends to see why it is that we do what

11:01 we do, how we do it, and just offering

11:03 the opportunity whether that's through

11:04 work Bible studies, whether that's

11:06 through, you know, we just partnered

11:07 with the Dave Ramsey organization to

11:08 give free financial peace university to

11:10 our tenants so that they can start to

11:12 learn some financial literacy. Maybe

11:13 they won't become a forever renter.

11:15 Right.

11:15 >> Right. And maybe they can change the

11:16 trajectory of their own family and

11:18 generational wealth capabilities based

11:19 on biblical principles. Yeah.

11:21 >> So it's our opportunity as entrepreneurs

11:23 to be able to bring that to people.

11:25 >> Yeah. One thing we we teach so we do a

11:27 bunch of tent makers events. Um so I'll

11:29 do workshops and like a big conference

11:32 and uh one of the things I teach on is

11:34 eternal ROI. And you mentioned that

11:36 before because it's like yeah obviously

11:38 we have a fiduciary duty. We have a

11:40 stewardship duty to get a financial

11:43 return,

11:43 >> right?

11:44 >> You know, it's the parable of the

11:45 talents, but then like there's also this

11:47 eternal return that we don't really get

11:49 to see today.

11:50 >> That's right.

11:51 >> But, you know, we're storing up these

11:52 treasures in heaven for all of these

11:54 things we're doing. And I'm just like,

11:56 >> man,

11:58 >> it's going to be cool to see like

11:59 whatever that looks like. Yeah. Like, I

12:01 would rather store up eternal ROI than,

12:05 you know, ROI here on Earth because

12:06 like, dude, our time's limited, man.

12:08 >> It's amazing. I was at um a ranch in

12:11 Colorado for a father-son trip last week

12:13 and I woke up at 05:30 in the morning and

12:15 I was watching the sunrise and I got

12:16 this email from my team and it was just

12:19 one property that we own in Tampa and it

12:21 was we

12:24 interacted with 32 tenants. We prayed

12:28 with, you know, 25 tenants, whatever.

12:31 And the funnel is interacted with,

12:34 prayed with, invited to church, and then

12:36 three salvations came out of it on one

12:38 property in the last 90 days.

12:40 >> And these are the types of reports that

12:43 we get and then we send to our

12:44 investors,

12:45 >> right?

12:45 >> And that's the the ROI that we're

12:48 looking for, right? I mean, yes, of

12:49 course, we need to make sure that we're

12:51 no margin, no mission, right? We need to

12:53 make sure that we're operating with

12:54 excellence.

12:55 >> But at the end of the day, if you can

12:57 see lives changed, families healed

12:59 because of the business that you own,

13:01 what a blessing.

13:02 >> Yeah. Praise God. So, let's transition a

13:04 little bit. Uh golf. So, we're here at

13:07 uh Payne's Valley and uh you know, you

13:10 joined M19. What made you want to join?

13:12 >> So, I think it's it's twofold. one,

13:15 we've been in in big masterminds

13:17 together where you go in these huge

13:18 conference rooms and you know, you're

13:20 learning and you're interacting,

13:22 >> but it's really like a quick hit, right?

13:25 You're 2 three days in, you don't really

13:27 get that depth of relationship.

13:29 >> And I don't think that there's a better

13:30 opportunity than spend four hours on a

13:32 course with somebody to really get to

13:34 know them.

13:35 >> And, you know, I'm I'm not a good

13:36 golfer, so I'm out here with one of the

13:38 higher handicaps, right? And

13:40 >> just so you guys know, we allow hacks.

13:42 You know, you just got to love golf. you

13:43 just, you know, you can suck.

13:45 >> Yeah. I'm I'm a hockey player just

13:46 playing golf today.

13:48 >> Um and I moved down from New Jersey.

13:50 Never played to South Carolina and I

13:52 moved into a country club before I ever

13:54 walked onto one. I moved into one.

13:56 >> That's how I got into golf, too.

13:57 >> They made me get a handicap. They said,

13:59 "You can't come and play on the course

14:01 unless you play 10 rounds and record all

14:03 your scores." And I was a 31.

14:05 >> Yeah.

14:05 >> The first 10 rounds. Yeah. And I have

14:07 three kids under 12. Okay. I run a

14:10 business and there's not a lot of time

14:12 for golf, but I've gotten it down to

14:14 about a 16 in the last couple years.

14:16 >> Boing golf is good golf

14:18 >> and I know how to play bad fast. You

14:20 know, my buddy who's with me here, um,

14:22 he's he's a good golfer and he doesn't

14:25 mind playing with me because I can play

14:27 bad.

14:28 >> But, you know, relationally speaking, I

14:31 I don't think that there's a better way

14:33 to get to know somebody than just four

14:35 hours on a course. You really learn the

14:37 character of people, right? like who's

14:39 throwing clubs, who's picking up when

14:41 they shouldn't be

14:42 >> cursing themselves out.

14:45 And so for me, I was like, you know, I

14:48 >> you guys are playing amazing golf trips.

14:50 You're playing at the best courses in

14:52 the world.

14:53 >> And the barrier to entry wasn't

14:56 significant. It's when I can come and

14:57 play, I can come and play. When I can't,

14:59 I can't. Y

15:01 >> and it just it worked out in in terms of

15:03 like, man, I'm seeing Oh, and of course

15:05 you have some amazing members who said,

15:08 "Hey, who do you know that should be in

15:10 this group?" I got a couple of phone

15:12 calls from a couple of guys who are

15:13 already in the group and they were like,

15:14 "Hey,

15:16 >> I know you're not huge into golf, but

15:18 you love it.

15:19 >> You should be here.

15:19 >> We're playing. You got to come." And I

15:21 was like, "Sold."

15:23 >> There we go. That's awesome. Yeah. I

15:25 I've just It's funny. My golf story was

15:27 similar. I started about five years ago.

15:29 Well, yeah. [clears throat] Five. I

15:30 bought a piece of land, my dream lot,

15:33 you know, and it just happened to be in

15:34 a country club. I'm just buying it

15:35 because it's the the community, you

15:37 know.

15:38 >> I'm like, well, if I'm going to live

15:40 here, I might as well like get a

15:42 membership, right?

15:43 >> And so I I buy a membership. I'm like,

15:45 well, if I'm going to get a membership,

15:47 I might as well be good, right?

15:49 >> And so I get Yeah. I'm not going to

15:51 embarrass the last thing I'm going to do

15:52 in anything in life is embarrass myself,

15:54 right? So I'm like, I'm going to get a

15:56 coach. So, I just get a coach and I

15:58 start getting lessons every week and

15:59 then I'm like, well, if I get lessons, I

16:01 gotta play and implement the lesson. So,

16:03 now I'm playing every week. Yeah.

16:04 >> And I'm like, this is actually really

16:06 fun.

16:06 >> It is. And,

16:08 >> you know, four hours on a golf course,

16:10 no phones with the right people.

16:12 >> Yeah.

16:12 >> I mean, it's beautiful. The scenery,

16:15 nothing really beats it. And I've played

16:16 all kinds of sports in my life. And, you

16:18 know, as you get older, you want to be

16:20 able to play something that you can get

16:21 out and be consistent with. And my wife

16:24 just got into it in last year, too. So

16:26 it's like we'll drop the kids off at

16:27 08:30 for school and get a 09:00 tea time

16:30 and just go play nine. Oh, nice.

16:32 >> And it's just, you know, so it's really

16:34 become a bigger part of my life than I

16:36 ever imagined.

16:37 >> And now my kids are getting into it. You

16:39 know, my my six-year-old son is like,

16:41 "Hey, can we go to the range and putt or

16:43 can we go chip?" And,

16:44 >> you know, so it's it's really become a a

16:46 bigger piece of my life than I ever

16:48 thought. And

16:49 >> when I saw some of the places that you

16:51 guys have, I was like, "Yeah, we got to

16:53 add that to uh to our golf resume."

16:55 Yeah. Yeah. My wife started playing

16:57 about two years ago and so she loves it

17:00 too.

17:00 >> Yeah.

17:01 >> She hits bombs like me and um Yeah. And

17:04 she doesn't practice or anything. It's

17:06 kind of crazy. She'll like out of the

17:07 blue just hit one like 240

17:10 >> just dropping bombs.

17:11 >> I'm like that's crazy. You hit them

17:13 further than some of our members

17:14 >> for sure. [laughter]

17:16 >> Is she here?

17:17 >> No, she's not here. She She comes to

17:19 trips though, but she doesn't play.

17:20 >> Okay.

17:21 >> Yeah. Yeah. So, we'll bring the kids on

17:22 trips and this would have been a good

17:24 one.

17:24 >> Um, but yeah, we'll we'll bring the kids

17:27 on trips and chill, go and explore and

17:29 stuff like

17:30 >> the last one they they came to was a

17:32 Black Desert in St. George.

17:34 >> Cool.

17:34 >> And they have so many cool kids. They

17:37 got water parks. They got all this

17:39 stuff. Yeah.

17:40 >> This is similar here. Yeah.

17:41 >> Family oriented.

17:42 >> Yeah. If anyone's thinking of coming to

17:43 Payne's Valley and you got a I would

17:45 highly recommend it. Uh there's so much

17:47 to do for kids.

17:49 >> But yeah, man. As we wrap this up here,

17:52 um I mean what's the plan for the

17:53 business and everything else? Like

17:55 obviously you guys are already at 650

17:57 million under management. Do you have a

17:58 goal? Is it get to uh a bill? Well, you

18:01 you will be at a billion at some point,

18:03 but you know what's the goal?

18:04 >> Yeah, I mean we have 100 million closing

18:06 just this summer, you know, so it's

18:08 starting to increase exponentially. We

18:10 just got onboarded onto the Schwab

18:12 platform, so now we can raise capital

18:13 from financial advisors and

18:15 >> there'll be huge. So as we start to move

18:17 towards more of an institutional bent,

18:20 it's going to be interesting because

18:22 we're very faith forward, right? So the

18:24 institutions are going to see how we do

18:26 things and why we do things and the ROI

18:28 and the NOIs have to line up to make

18:30 sure that these guys can deploy capital

18:31 alongside of us, but really the goal is

18:34 how do we save more souls? How do we

18:36 open up more conversations about the

18:38 gospel? How do we continue to build the

18:40 kingdom inside of our business? And I

18:42 don't know exactly how the Lord's going

18:43 to do that, but that's the goal, right?

18:45 So it's not a billion, two billion,

18:47 three billion. It's, you know, how do we

18:49 create a sustainable consistent business

18:51 with the framework of ministry as the

18:54 anchor and the foundation? And hopefully

18:56 we continue to partner with great

18:57 operators and great investors that want

18:59 to deploy their capital where, you know,

19:01 they can match up their capital with

19:03 their calling.

19:03 >> Yeah. I think it's fitting to end this

19:05 with a prayer. you want to pray for just

19:07 everyone listening that uh maybe people

19:09 who are uh struggling to be bold in

19:12 their faith and maybe implement some of

19:14 these things into their business. I know

19:16 like for most Christians it it is kind

19:18 of like a scary thought.

19:19 >> Yeah.

19:20 >> No, I love that. Let's Yeah, let's pray.

19:21 So, Father God, we just thank you for

19:23 the opportunity to serve you not just in

19:26 our relationships and our families, but

19:28 in our business, Lord. We just encourage

19:30 those believers out there to be more

19:32 bold and to speak your name and to know

19:35 that they can grow and scale a business

19:37 that aligns with their faith, aligns

19:40 with their core values, Lord. So, we

19:42 just ask for uh for more guidance, for

19:47 you to continue to to give us your

19:49 wisdom in how to implement those things

19:52 and more people to hear your gospel. And

19:55 we just thank you, Lord, for for Ryan,

19:56 the M19 group, for all the people here.

19:59 We just pray a hedge of protection

20:00 around their businesses, their families,

20:02 and for you out there listening, right?

20:03 We just want you to know the the creator

20:06 of the universe, and to know that he

20:07 loves you. He cares for you and your

20:09 business. He cares about that as well.

20:11 So, we just thank you, Jesus, in Jesus

20:14 name.

20:14 >> Amen.

20:15 >> Amen.

20:16 >> Dude, that was awesome, man. Well, it's

20:17 been great um having you. If if anyone

20:20 wants to know more about what you guys

20:22 are doing or potentially invest, where

20:23 do they go? Yeah, go to iwpurpose.com.

20:26 Okay.

20:26 >> And you can see all of our offerings

20:28 there. Learn about the ministry program.

20:30 See how many salvations we're seeing on

20:32 site and how much uh

20:34 >> So, is it basically all multif family at

20:35 this point or

20:36 >> Yeah, it's it's bullish and multif

20:38 family. We're seeing a lot of

20:39 opportunity, right? Trillion dollar debt

20:40 wall coming in the next two years. So,

20:42 we're seeing a lot of opportunity in the

20:44 multif family space. We do have some

20:46 opportunistic student housing and senior

20:47 housing, but

20:48 >> yeah,

20:49 >> mostly multi. I I should ask you before

20:51 we jump what is your prediction because

20:53 a lot of people are saying oh you know

20:54 and and I'm seeing it you know a lot of

20:56 funds are going down y a lot of uh

20:58 people are getting foreclosed on they're

21:00 having to give properties back and so

21:02 >> you know a lot of people are not bullish

21:04 on on the multif family space because of

21:07 all these things going to be hidden. I

21:09 look at it as 2007208 in the residential

21:12 market, right? Were you buying back in

21:14 2007208 when the market was kind of

21:16 bottoming out or were you sitting on the

21:18 sidelines going, "Man, it looks like

21:19 it's all going to pot." And for us with

21:21 a trillion dollar debt wall, meaning

21:23 that they have to refinance or they have

21:25 to put more capital into these deals,

21:28 we're seeing a lot of distress in the

21:29 market and that can make people fearful.

21:31 That makes us feel very opportunistic

21:33 because we're seeing deals, for example,

21:36 um an $84 million deal that traded five

21:38 years ago, we're picking it up at almost

21:39 50 cents in the dollar. Yeah.

21:41 >> Right. So, there's good opportunities.

21:43 You still have to be cautious. You still

21:44 have to understand operationally where

21:46 it's at. And resetting the underwriting

21:48 and resetting the basis of these deals,

21:50 I think, will give good opportunities.

21:52 That being said, Starwood Capital lost

21:53 $900 million last year. They just raised

21:55 a $10.2 billion distressed asset fund.

21:59 >> Yeah. even though they lost

22:00 >> for them to buy their own assets, right?

22:02 So,

22:02 >> yeah, that literally happened to my

22:04 friend. He's one of the biggest

22:05 developers in Las Vegas and uh like

22:08 they've done billions in deals and

22:10 >> he sold a deal. He was telling me about

22:12 this. He sold a deal. His his cost to

22:14 build was like 250 bucks a door. He does

22:16 a class apartments.

22:17 >> Okay.

22:18 >> And they sold it for over 400 a door

22:20 back in like 2021, whatever it was. And

22:23 it just retraded back to them for 250 a

22:28 door

22:28 >> for what he built it for.

22:29 >> Yeah. Amazing.

22:30 >> Replacement cost. Y

22:31 >> and I'm just like, so how do you feel

22:33 about He's like, it's it's great. We're

22:35 happy to buy it.

22:36 >> He's happy to [laughter] buy it.

22:37 >> Yeah.

22:38 >> Yeah. So I, you know, I do think that

22:40 there's opportunity. There's going to be

22:41 stress. There's going to be pain. So it

22:43 just depends on what I think um

22:45 headlines you're reading. And as an

22:46 operator, do you think that that will

22:48 create opportunity in the market or you

22:50 think it's going to be a problem?

22:51 >> Yeah. Well, yeah. It's just like, hey,

22:54 if things are still trading at, let's

22:55 say in that case, the market says 350,

22:58 even though it's not what it used to be

23:00 at the 400 plus, but he's getting it for

23:02 250, it's like, well,

23:04 >> yeah,

23:05 >> you're you're going to be good.

23:06 >> It's just underwriting cash flows,

23:07 right, and exit caps and not being silly

23:09 about

23:10 >> cap rate compression and interest rates

23:12 dropping. Like, if you can underwrite to

23:15 a place where you think it's going to be

23:16 stable or even expanding cap rates,

23:19 >> then you're in a really good spot.

23:20 >> Cool. Well guys, gave you some game

23:23 right there about what's happening in

23:24 the commercial market. Um, go check out

23:27 Steve and their company. We will link to

23:29 them down below. If you like this

23:31 episode, also man, make sure you

23:32 subscribe. You'll get to see new members

23:34 every single week in M19 all across lots

23:37 of industries. I mean, we were talking

23:38 real estate today, but I just got done

23:40 talking about hats. Uh, we're talking

23:42 about other things later today. And so,

23:44 it's going to be great. Make sure you

23:46 subscribe and we'll see you on the next

23:47 one. Peace.