I basically had an 18-month stretch
where I made a lot of really bad
decisions. Basically, I got into the
four hardest things I've ever had to go
through. Um, by just like not being
smart and taking my eye off the ball,
but yet I still have to deal with the
repercussions of it and all that stuff.
But then you also think like
[clears throat] I'm going to deal with
it 20 years from now, you know, 10 years
from now. Not maybe financially, but
just people yapping, right? Because I
think about it too like tons of
entrepreneurs who have failed [music] at
things and it's like oh well he went
bankrupt here and he did this
>> and I think real estate's in a
depression.
>> Oh yeah.
>> And we're going to find out
>> by the summer if we're in a nasty
recession or if this AI thing is big
enough [music] to kind of pull us out.
And I don't have the answer today. I
don't know.
>> The real estate market right now is
[music] not a good vehicle with a
>> Yeah. Like all the momentum is against
you. All the wind is against you.
[music] like it's hard. All righty,
folks. Welcome to the wealthy way. And
yes, I am not Ryan Peneda. My name is
Michael Zuber and I get the pleasure of
sitting in the big chair. I will tell
you it's not very comfortable. He's got
to get a better chair. But hey, let's
welcome Ryan Panea to the show. He's got
some big news, man. How you doing?
>> Well, you know, it caused quite a
firestorm.
>> Yeah, there you go.
>> About 48 hours ago, you dropped a bomb
on the real estate world. Why don't you
share with us what that was? Yeah, I
mean I just announced that I was
shutting down my house flipping
wholesaling business and I honestly
wasn't even going to make a video about
it because I just was like going to do
it and ride off into the sunset and then
[laughter] like I was like I'll just
film a video and so I make this
literally a 9minute reel
>> and a long reel.
>> It's a long reel and and Instagram tells
you if it's over three minutes they're
not going to show it to anybody. I was
like, "All right, whatever. I'll just
make it." And then uh it just goes mega
viral. And um I don't I can't think of
another time a video in real estate got
reacted to so much. Yeah. I mean, I was
in Orlando at the Bigger Pockets event
and I must have had 20 people come up to
me and go, "Did you see the news? Did
you see the news?"
>> Dang.
>> And I'm like, "What news?" And like
Ryan, I'm like, "Ryan and I are boys.
What what what happened? Was he okay?"
>> It's like he quit. He died.
>> I didn't know what they gave up. He
failed. Yeah. I mean, I didn't know what
they were saying cuz I didn't I wasn't
checking my phone cuz I was at the event
and yeah, the plane quit. So,
>> um I guess I want to start off with this
first question because I do have a list
of questions.
>> And the first one, Ryan, is are you a
quitter? Quit a You quit a lot of
things. They keep quitting.
>> Dude, I am I guess a quitter. Um yeah,
I've I've quit a lot of different
businesses, a lot of different things
over time. Um
>> quit smoking, you quit drinking.
[laughter]
>> Never smoked. Um, but well, I guess I
smoke cigars now. But no, I think uh
look, I've quit as a baseball player.
I've quit as a couch flipper. Um,
obviously I'm quitting as a flipper and
a wholesaler now. I've quit other
businesses and uh yeah, if the
definition of not doing something
anymore is quitting, then yeah, I've
I've quit a lot of things.
>> Dang.
>> Uh, Ryan, you've you've been with Ryan a
long time. Do you see him as a quitter?
>> Uh, no. I think I see him as someone who
doesn't find his identity in the
business that he does. So, a lot of real
estate people, they can't relate to that
because a lot of realtors and now I'm
noticing real estate investors, they
can't fathom doing another business. So,
if someone leaves the business, they see
them as a quitter and a failure. Um, but
I have a question for you. Do you think
that he's a quitter?
>> No, I don't think Ryan's a quitter. I
think I think what I've watched Ryan and
I've only known him for five or six
years. I think he constantly evolves.
>> Yeah.
>> Right. I think he's I think he took
something from his baseball career. He
took something from couch flipping. He's
going to take something from real
estate.
>> Yeah.
>> And you know, I've I've known M19 since
probably the month after it was created.
>> Yeah.
>> And it was already a wild success. And I
was already looking out going,
>> that's going to be his thing because
that just feels like who he is. It's
it's athletic. It's sports. It's social.
It's just who Ryan is. Yeah, real estate
was just the way you made some money for
a while.
>> Yeah.
>> Right. I don't think it was ever who you
were, but
>> No, I And I never liked real estate. I
mean, I' I've said this on the show many
times. Like, and and to give people
context for those who hadn't seen the
Instagram, I'll I'll summarize kind of
what it was.
>> So, you know, I've been in the game
since 2010 as a realtor. Um that was the
first time I quit real.
>> Yeah. You quit that, too? Yeah.
>> Yeah, I quit that. Um I did it for like
two years. I quit. I said, "This sucks."
End up getting Yeah. It was too hard. It
was way hard. Yeah.
>> And I got tired of selling $100,000
houses and making three grand. It was
just
>> like 15 because you got to play with the
broker.
>> Yeah. It was just not worth it. And so I
quit. Got into couch flipping. Made 10
grand a month flipping couches. And that
was great. And then I get into flipping
houses in 2015. Um since then the last
what is that 11 years we've done almost
a thousand deals of flips and
wholesales. And you know it's been a fun
ride. But um the the good news is the
last I call it five years or so, I
haven't really spent much time in the
business. Um and that's the only reason
I've been able to do podcasting and
>> Wealth Cons and all the other stuff that
I've done because that business has been
able to run without me. And um the
extent of my effort into it has been
about an hour a week for like five
years. And I I attribute that not to me
but to the team that you you've you've
seen the team up there. I mean, I've got
guys who've been with me for many years.
>> They they've closed those hundreds and
hundreds of deals, not me,
>> right?
>> You know, it has my name on it, but they
are the ones doing all the work. And so,
you know, for me, I've had the privilege
of being able to kind of be pretty
passive in that business for all these
years and focus on the other ones. And
um, you know, we've been through tough
times before. So, it's not like I this
season was harder than 2022. 2022 was
way more difficult. I mean, I was
sitting on 50 house flips that uh were
all going negative.
>> You're bleeding.
>> Yeah. And I was going to lose millions
and I did.
>> Like, that was a way harder time. But at
that time, I had no choice. It was like,
look, we I have to pay back these
investors.
>> This is the best thing I'm good at is
this and teaching people. And so, like,
I'm going to have to just dig myself out
of this. And so, we did and, you know,
rebuilt it and started wholesaling
predominantly.
>> And so, for the last uh call it three
years, it's been mainly wholesale. like
I got away from flipping mainly just
wholesaliled and then you know the last
two quarters this year in 2026 um have
basically like broke even slashlost
>> depending on how we do the the finances
but you know I'm doing my quarterly
meeting with my coach Gary and I'm just
like man
>> Harper. Yeah, Gary Harper. And I'm like
dude what do we got to do to fix it? And
and dude I've been doing quarterly
meetings for seven years now and so
fixing something is just part of
quarterlys. and he's like, "Well, here's
what all the big people are doing.
Here's um you know, some are flipping
again. Some are taking down deals
themselves cuz it's harder to sell. Um
they're doing inerson appointments now.
They're changing this thing and that
thing." And I'm like, "Bro, that's like
completely shifting the whole business
back to what I don't want to do,
>> right?"
>> He's like, "Well, that's what it's like.
That's what most people are doing to be
successful." And I'm just like, "Dude,
I'm not willing to do it,
>> right?
>> I I'm just not going to do it." And I
said, "What's the reason to do it? Give
me what's the upside? I I understand the
work. What's the upside?" And he said,
"Well, you know, the upside's getting
back to, you know, two million bucks a
year, three million bucks a year." And
I'm just like, "That's peanuts compared
to everything else going on,
>> right?"
>> You know, we have six other things going
on. M19, the Taylor Tax, Peneta
Partners, this podcast, uh, Dad Built,
uh, we're launching the Christian Toys,
and I'm just like, these all six of
those are better than this,
>> right? and I enjoy them more and they're
not cyclical, you know, with this market
and I think the market's getting way
worse.
>> And so if I think the market's about to
get way worse and it's going to be way
more he headache and like why am I going
to keep doing this damage?
>> Yeah. And everybody in the meeting was
like I was like somebody give me a good
reason to keep going. Somebody has to
give a good reason. And you know Michael
who's the head over there he's like I
don't have a good logical reason. I just
only have emotional reasons. and the
emotion, it's like I've been here for
eight years. Like I don't want to see it
just die and and all that and like
there's all these memories and all this,
but I don't have a good logical
financial reason.
So, you know, I went home that night and
I prayed about it and I woke up in the
morning and I felt peace and I just
decided on Friday I said, "Guys, I'm
just shutting it down."
>> Damn.
>> And he was there. I was just like, "I'm
shutting it down, dude." And um
>> not when he woke up, but later
>> he was there in my bed. We woke up
>> your breakfast in bed.
>> Yeah. Like it was, you know, it was it
was weird. Um, [laughter]
>> not the first time I
>> Yeah. I I don't even like I was in his
house. I don't even know how I got
roofied. I got roofied. So anyways,
yeah, I just I I went to him and I was
just like, "Guys, here's the situation.
Like, let's just shut this down and and
here's, you know, all the reasons why
and here's what I want to do. I want to
put you guys in sales roles in these
other companies that we have that I
think you're going to crush it in." I
think if and I said this in my video
too. If you're a real estate person
right now in sales, real estate's mainly
all sales people. I'm like, look, if you
could sell right now today in this
market, bro, selling other stuff is like
way easier.
>> And you don't got to deal with uh
waiting two months to get paid. If it it
falls out of escrow or finding a buyer,
if you're flipping, wait six to nine
months to get paid. I'm like, dude, we
sell stuff every day online. You get
paid that day. The cash conversion cycle
is a day. cash conversion cycle in real
estate's months or years. And I said,
"You guys are going to love this new
type of sales and you guys have already
seen it from all the other salespeople.
Like you, they're literally the least
paid salespeople." And so I said, "I'm
kind of doing you guys a disservice by
even keeping you in this when I know you
could make more elsewhere."
>> And so they all bought in and you know,
Monday was our first day. One guy
already sold 20K and like that's more
than a wholesale fee on day one. It's
already done. and he's like, "Wow, this
is
>> this is this is this is better." So,
yeah. Anyways, that's kind of like how
it led to that point. And I basically
just uh I said the rest in that video. I
said, "Look, just cuz I'm quitting
doesn't mean I think real estate's dead.
I don't think you can't make money
flipping or wholesaling. I think there's
plenty of people still doing it at a
high level. They've been on this show."
But I said, "For me, it it really is
like couch flipping at this point."
>> Sure. It's like it was great for what it
was for all these years.
>> Season for you. Yeah.
>> And now it's over and it's a season. And
um you know part of that too I said was
like look and and in this season I also
don't want to coach real estate if I
don't do it right.
>> I just don't for me I know that there
are plenty of coaches who stop doing it
and coach and like I still have no shade
at that because like if you're a good
coach in my mind you're a good coach
even if you don't.
>> Tom Ferry one of the best real estate
agents never been to the city. Yeah.
>> Yeah. I don't even think he's ever sold
houses. So, it's like, look, if you're a
good coach, you're a good coach. Um, but
for me, I've just always been a player
coach.
>> And I'm like, I if I don't do it, I
don't I don't want to sell it or coach
it. And so,
>> you know, I told everyone at Wealthy
Investor, I said, you know, we're going
to put you guys in new roles, too. And,
um, you know, we'll continue to fulfill
on the current students we have. We'll
give them all the leads and softwares
and coaching and everything they've
bought, but we're not going to sell
anymore. And we'll we'll wind that down
as it winds down. and um you know we'll
focus on all the things that we know are
in the next season.
>> Yeah. So I got a bunch of questions
there. I do want to talk a little bit
more about flipping and wholesaling
business just so people get context and
then we'll switch to the next season. So
you talked earlier about you having done
a thousand been a part of nearly a
thousand transactions. I wanted to
divide that up because there was a time
you were hands-on. Yeah.
>> And you were in the room and you were
negotiating and then like you said the
last four years it was an hour an hour a
week.
>> Yeah. So I want to kind of divide that
for folks like the first season when
Ryan was 80% of the effort 100 200
transactions and then the other 800 was
the bigger team or what what was that
divide
>> I think so the first three years I I got
all the deals and so I did five 20 and
then 50 so
>> call it 100
>> 75 right there right
>> and um I really only had my friend Nick
who became my partner at the real estate
brokerage we started which is another
business I quit we had 200
>> agents quit quits quit.
>> Quit quit.
>> Well, you know,
>> it's called evolve. I'm just teasing.
>> Yeah. And it's like, you know,
>> was he chasing hot money like you said
on your
>> Yeah, I want to bring that up.
>> We'll talk about chasing hot money. I've
done that, too. Quit. I've chased hot
money. But, um, is there any other type
of money? Is there cold money?
>> There's fast money, hot money.
>> Okay. Pattern of exit.
>> I don't chase slow money, that's for
sure. But, um, with fair enough
[laughter]
>> with with Yeah. With the flips, let's
say, so the first 75 I found all by
myself. Um, and then I I brought on my
Nick or Nick and he ended up being like
the listing agent and stuff and we
started a brokerage. Then my fourth year
we did 150 and that was the first time I
hired other people to start getting
deals for me.
>> And if I had to guess, I probably still
was responsible for half of them. Okay.
>> Um, and then they got the other half.
And
>> so I don't know, maybe I got 150 to 200
of
>> Yeah. So again, the point of this is you
did a thousand. Yeah.
>> But the bigger business did the
majority.
>> Yeah. For sure.
>> Right. Right.
>> Yep. So again, um, that just shows that
you were running a team and process. It
wasn't Ryan. It may have been Ryan
Peneda the name.
>> Yeah.
>> But it was, I don't know, a dozen other
people
>> for sure.
>> Dozens over the years. It's a decade.
>> And that was the other thing again. I
don't think people realize throwing
shade at you today, how big of an
operation this thing can get.
>> Yeah.
>> Right. Veras and headcount and, you
know, marketing spend and and all of
this. That's all that's all outgo.
So,
>> yeah. get can you give us a feel for
just how big that team was, you know,
headcount wise or
>> Yeah, you know what's interesting? So, I
had um Noel, my sister and CFO kind of
look into I was like, "So, like what did
we actually do now that we're just
calling it quits essentially like what?
>> Let's look at the income statement."
>> Yeah. Like what ended up happening? Um
>> and we weren't keeping great books 10
years ago the way we do today. But she's
like approximately what ended up
happening was over 150 million in deals.
>> So top line
>> revenue. Well, like without houses, no,
just like house total value.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Um, ended up being about 15
million and what we call just gross
profit, like the profit on the flips.
So, and that's actually that lines up
because that's what we try to make on a
house flip, 10%.
>> Um, and then even I'll just be
transparent on the education side, we
ended up doing about 40 million plus at
Wealthy Investor, teaching people how to
>> for how long, eight years ish.
>> I I founded it at Future Flipper in
2018. Didn't get real serious until
2020. So call it seven 40 million. So
that's
>> Yeah.
>> Whatever that is almost that's five and
a half million a year just simple math.
>> Yeah. Yeah. It basically was like at
nothing. And then we were doing 10
million a year for a couple years and
then I think last year in 25 we did 8
million. And then um as M19 scaled I
just was like yeah I'm not doing any
webinars. I'm not like
>> no more pip
>> no more wealthcons. No more webinars.
This is like way better. So
>> that's another quick Yeah.
>> Yeah. Yep.
>> You were doing those quarterly for a
while. That had to be that was a heavy
lift. Yeah, Brunson was Russell Brunson
was here and he was like, "How do you do
that?" I'm like, "I don't know. We just
do it."
>> Yeah. So, the one thing that always
enamored me, I call you a unicorn. I've
called you that to your face. I call you
that online. It's meant as a compliment.
>> Yeah.
>> Um your ability to
um see kind of like the future right
closer to you.
>> Oh, sorry. Your ability to kind of see
the future and where you can take your
expertise, both athletic, social media,
execution, leadership, is really second
to none. at least that I've seen. Um, do
you realize, you know, how unique you
are in that or is it just you're
Superman and you don't know your
Superman?
>> Um, I don't really think about me too
much. I just like observe the world and
what people are doing and what they want
and where the world's headed and I just
try to do what I think is going to be
the next smart play. I mean, it's like
sports. It's like if you can see the
pass and the play before it happens and
everyone else can see it,
>> right?
>> You just go to where you think the
ball's going to be.
>> Yeah. R Wayne Wayne Gretzky, right? Go.
>> Yeah. And sometimes you're wrong, but a
lot of times you're right.
>> Yeah.
>> You know, throughout the course of a
game, you're going to be wrong and miss
a lot. But over the course of the whole
game, you look at the stat sheet and
you're like, "Okay, he was right a lot
more than he was wrong." Hey, real
quick. I'm looking for one company to
partner with this month and run their
entire marketing and sales department.
That means we're going to run their ads,
build their funnels, manage their CRM,
hire and train their sales team and
manage them and just handle all of the
front-end revenue for this business. All
you would have to do is just manage
fulfillment and serve your clients well.
And for doing this, we're not going to
do any kind of equity. It is just going
to be a profit share agreement. So, if
any of that sounds interesting to you,
go to panapartners.com
right now. You can apply today. We're
only taking on one company and so if you
think your company's a fit, make sure
you apply today. You've got to be doing
at least $50,000 a month in revenue in
order for us to even look at it. So go
to panat partners.com today.
>> Brian, let's bring you into this
conversation. Obviously, if one of
Ryan's boys, you probably saw the
firestorm online, right? Other people
doing the Instagram feed.
>> Yeah. Yeah, I saw your reaction, too.
>> I did do an Instagram feed, but
>> you did a YouTube
>> I did a YouTube video. Absolutely. Yeah.
And
>> what' you say on your YouTube?
>> I basically
>> I want to confront you right now. Mike,
>> hey, much that was a clip. That was the
clip.
>> Okay. As much as you give to me.
>> Yeah.
>> Um, I said there's two ways to go in
this business. You can chase quick money
or you can go for the future. I came to
real estate cuz I wanted to retire at
65.
>> Yeah.
>> Ryan was after quicker money than me and
it's hard today.
>> Yeah.
>> It's not wrong or wrong.
>> Do you feel like he's chasing uh fast
money or hard f You said he's chasing
fast money or hot money?
>> Sure. not focus on building long-term
wealth.
>> I think if you're in the wholesaling and
flipping business, it's active income.
It's not wealth b wealth generating.
>> I don't think that's inaccurate.
>> I think Well, okay. Well, so I won't
talk about what I think, but anything
else? Uh any other feedback on what you
see Ryan doing?
>> So, I mean, I I have no problem with it.
When I saw Ryan do that video and then I
really liked your post the next day. I
think it was the next day. Yeah. Where
you showed the dashboard.
>> Yeah. Yeah. I'm like, "Guys, if you
don't get it now, [laughter]
>> Yeah.
>> you're you're missing the point, right?"
He basically told us, and again, he
didn't say the one hour in the video. I
don't think I knew he spent time. I
didn't know it was that little.
>> Yeah.
>> But going through this hard season with
a bunch of people and all that outgoing.
It makes complete sense that you at
least pull back, if not quit, given you
have all these other commitments. I knew
he had M19. I knew he had Dad Built. I
knew he had Panada Partners. I had no
idea he had Christian toys and all these
other things going. Dude's only got 24
hours in the day.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
>> Right. I mean, he's got to give.
>> But you think what he's doing is not
building wealth.
>> I think M19, Dad Built, Pana Partners,
the only three I know about are
potentially wealth building. Wholesaling
is flipping is active income.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
>> Yeah. And I agree with that statement.
Like I think flipping and wholesaling
are always just cash businesses that
make money quick.
>> Enterprise value. There's no enterprise
value. There's nothing with that. Um,
>> but there is skills that you learn that
help you build wealth and then obviously
all the income that you're making.
>> Yeah.
>> Right. Social med all. Dude, we all
should be learning. We should all be
growing. Absolutely.
>> Yeah.
>> Well, I think you're a good example of
somebody who's doing both. Like you're
you're wholesaling and flipping. You've
been doing it for a long time, but
you're you're buying rentals. You're
trying to pay them off. Yeah.
>> You're actually Michael Zuber is what
you are. I'm like a younger Hispanic, a
lot more strong kids. Congratulations,
kid number six.
>> Thank you. Yeah,
>> you're you're going to have the handle.
Two rentals at a time.
>> Yeah.
>> You [laughter] buy I buy duplex.
>> As soon as they're paid off, I'm going
to start selling coaching on how to buy
rentals. I'll be like, "Dude, I crushed
it. It's so good."
>> Yeah.
>> No, but um No, but yeah. No, I just
thought it was interesting that I the
way I was interpreting it was him
focusing on M19 is not long-term wealth.
No, didn't say that. But what people
don't understand is most ultra wealthy
people get there by building a business.
It's not by investing.
>> What's ultra wealthy?
>> We'll say 10 million plus.
>> Yeah. 10 million plus. Like a million
bucks. Yeah. You can get there through
real estate, but 10 million plus.
>> Normally,
>> if you want a big number, you want 10,
you want a 100, you want a billion.
>> Even like be a bill, it's going to be
>> you have to build something that's worth
a lot of money. too. If you want five
while you're young,
>> I was going to say, are you even 40 yet?
>> No.
>> See, yeah. If you're going to build a $5
million in value in your 30s, yeah, it
ain't coming from.
>> So, people need to rethink how they see
building wealth because they think like
the only way to build wealth is by
buying stocks or by buying real estate.
And that's maybe more sure, which I
wouldn't even agree with, but that's
most people like gurus like
you got to own assets. But I don't think
people know what an asset is.
>> Yeah.
>> Right. Most people think assets are
stocks or houses. That's
>> But assets can be a business.
Absolutely.
>> Yeah. No, I mean, the most valuable
assets in the world are businesses.
That's what the stock market is,
>> of course.
>> But like, you know, I I think two things
I want to touch on here that we're
talking about. One is real estate still.
Like, and I said this in the video, I
forgot to mention it, but like I'm not
quitting real estate. Like I'm still
gonna buy real estate
>> for Ryan, for your wife,
>> for Ryan, for personal, for a building,
for all these little tent makers, for
you know, it's cool development deals.
Like, I'll still buy, but I'm done with
it on active income. Essentially,
>> I'm going to become like Zuber
essentially.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
>> Like, I'll buy actual wealth building
real estate, but I I don't think I'll
ever use real estate to make active
income again. Now, never saying never,
but
>> if things ever hit the fan, you'll see
me wholesaling. That's basically that's
worst scenario. Yeah. Like if I start
wholesaling again, things hit the fan.
[laughter]
>> Yeah. No, because that's what I will be
signed.
>> Yeah. And that's what I told myself too
when I first got into flipping 10 years
ago. I was like, look, I could always
flip couches again. If things really hit
the fan, I'll flip couches.
>> That that gives you so much confidence
that you know what your oh backup
plan is.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. And that means you can go for it.
>> Yep. But then the other thing that made
me start looking at it differently was
M19. Not just from running it, but from
the people in it. And so like we have
almost 600 members now and I literally
have everyone's revenues in the I can
see everyone. And so I talked to these
people who are doing things at a high
level. Not one came from real estate. Um
>> all quote unquote boring businesses.
>> Some are boring. Some just been doing it
a really long time. Whatever, right? But
dude, we have people who are
billionaires. We have people who are
hundred millionaires. And um you know,
people who are decillionaires and
>> no wholesalers.
>> There ain't not one wholesaler. Um
there's not one house slipper. They're
all doing random things.
>> Are you a deck a millionaire?
>> Yes.
>> But but they they own real estate but
they didn't
>> and then some.
>> Oh like 20 mill are but are we talking
about net worth cuz
>> Well, I thought net worth was I don't
understand
>> that. That is how you
>> Well, no because I've I've heard some
offline.
>> I'm just saying that I've heard some one
of them I think was your friend uh
lumberjack uh whatever.
>> Bring up this lumberjack guy because he
says something crazy. When I met him in
person, he's like, I'm worth $100
million or something crazy like that.
And I was like, he's not. Do you own
that much assets? That's probably his
ass.
>> Exactly. So, somebody giving you the
net.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
Basically, the equity.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
>> But, um, anyways, you know, and I talked
to these guys and like they all own real
estate, but it's correct. It's not how
they built wealth. They they they store
wealth.
>> Yeah. They just put their money there,
right?
>> Tax benefits.
>> And so, you know, that that made me
think of it. And then I I started to
have all these conversations with these
guys and they're like starting asking me
what are you going to do with M19? Are
you taking on investors and all these
things and I was like no I mean I I
haven't taken one investor in any
business I've ever done as far as real
estate. Like I've taken investors to buy
properties but not in the actual
company.
>> You took death.
>> Yeah. And so I'm like I don't know what
do you think it's worth? Like in all
this stuff and dude the valuations that
they're willing to invest in right now
are a lot. And
>> so that would mean just for example, so
I'm not I'm making up numbers. Somebody
could value M19 at 20 million and they
want to give you 2 million for 10%.
That's what he's talking about.
>> Yeah. And is more than that. And so like
I could sell off pieces right now to
guys and they will pay into that
valuation, right? Um
and I'm just like wow that's kind of
crazy. So like what you're doing 13
months 14
>> 13 months.
>> And it's like and granted, right? That's
just paper net worth. It could be worth
zero tomorrow, like whatever, right?
>> But if I wanted to, I could take that
money right now.
>> What did you play? Yeah.
>> Right. And then I'm like, so, you know,
then you start playing with AI and all
this stuff. And, you know, we did an M&A
call in M19 literally yesterday cuz I
I'm personally interested now. And I'm
like, so what happens if we hit these
numbers and these numbers? And it's
like, well, dude, it could be a nine
figure valuation here like way sooner
than you think. And I'm just like,
>> so I'm going to get brain damaged
talking to motivated sellers. That's
again, that's the point, right?
>> Or like, I'm going to focus on this and
golf and travel the world. Worst case, I
golf and travel the world and make
money. Best case, I golf and travel the
world, make money, and build a
nine-figure business.
>> Yeah, I don't see the downside.
>> Or I talk to motivated sellers all day.
>> Yeah.
>> But do you guys think real estate is
dead? Do you think we're going into a
storm right now with interest rates and
>> all the regulations?
>> Again, you're not going to like my
answer.
>> What's your answer? I think for the next
90 days, so the rest of Q4, it's the
best buyers market I've seen. But again,
remember, I'm not a flipper. I'm not a
wholesaler. I don't need a buyer. Yeah.
I am only a buyer.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> So, I can write motivated sellers. I can
wait for the right offer. Even Graham
Stefen, your boy this morning
>> agreed to me. He sent out a tweet. If
you want, I'll read it to you.
>> Yeah.
>> So, no, I think this you want
>> and I'll give you my feedback.
>> Yeah. What did old Graham say?
>> Yeah. What's old Real Estate investing
say?
>> For my people. So for my people, I think
the next 90 days are the best market
I've seen in 12 years.
>> Your people in terms of buying rentals,
>> we work, we shop on the MLS. We don't do
mailers. We have no teams. We have no
overhead.
>> We have a buy box. We write 12 offers.
>> Just the Zillow shoppers.
>> Just the Zillow shoppers. So this is
what Graham said this morning.
>> Okay,
>> this might sound absolutely crazy,
>> but now might be a good time to buy a
house. Almost no competition, very
little demand. Rising inventory, 7% plus
rates, all why sellers are approaching
slow holiday season, low ball offers
might get accepted here for those who
are patient and play the numbers game.
>> Dang, Graham said that. How many deals
have has Graham done in like the last
one here?
>> We don't have a business. This is what
you don't
>> I'm talking I'm talking about rentals.
How many How many rentals?
>> 12 or 13 or something.
>> No, I'm saying how many has he bought in
the last
>> Oh, he hasn't done anything because he's
a YouTube guy. The guys that don't do
real estate are trying to preach we're
going into the best.
>> So I'll tell you about a guy I spoke to
yesterday in my community, Jacob. Okay.
>> He's he lives in Southern California. He
buy He buys in Minneapolis. So again,
it's out of state guy.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
>> So he tracked this house for a year.
Started at 310.
>> He bought it for 252.
>> Yeah.
>> It doesn't work at 310, but you get 20%
off and you put 25% down, it works.
>> Yeah. That's the market we're in is if
you can find a motivate. And he said,
"How did he get that deal?" He said,
"The house smelled like wet dogs."
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
>> Because no owner documents going to buy
a house that smells like wet dog. So it
stayed on the market a year and he found
it. It was on the MLS. He wrote it. His
first offer was 260. He got it tons of
going on for 20 years. Go in circles.
I'm talking about holistically the
entire market.
>> I don't understand.
>> I'm not saying there's not people
finding good deals. I could find someone
that found a good deal easy. I'm talking
about is this market the best market for
real estate investors like you just
said. I believe if you are a buy and
holding, if you have to, if your exit is
a sale, this market is terrible.
Wholesalers, flippers, if you're a home
seller, period, it's one of the worst
markets ever. But if you can buy and
hold and be patient and wait three,
five, seven, eight years, this is going
to be the easiest market for you in the
last 12 years. You don't want to compete
with us in 2021.
>> Yeah.
>> Now it's the market. If you're an FHA
buyer, Yeah. and the same thing,
>> three and a half% down,
>> you're gonna have better luck today than
you did in 2021 when nobody was looking
at your offer because it said FHA or VA.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And we've had this
already discussion. I don't want to go
through it again. But if we look at
>> Yeah.
>> Was it better to buy a house in 2016 or
2026?
>> Do you have a time machine?
>> No. But I'm But you're saying that's the
best because you just said it's the best
market in the last 10 years.
>> It is. If you are looking at that
criteria, if you want to just look at
the price point, I mean, who knows what
the market do you remember what it was
doing? How old were you in 2016?
>> 2016, 10 years ago, I was 25.
>> All right. Yeah. What were you doing at
How much were you making at 25?
>> I made like 100 grand,
>> right? Could you buy?
>> I bought my first house. Yeah, I bought
my first house in 2016.
>> Okay.
>> Yeah.
>> But either way, I my prediction is like,
bro, it's going to get worse for
everyone.
>> You're talking the macro.
>> It's only That's what I'm talking about.
macro. I'm not talking about can you
find someone that found a good deal.
>> My
>> But again, so part of the thing I talked
about in the video too was that
>> if it was if my business was easy to
fix, I would have just fixed it and kept
it going and it's fine.
>> But the reason it's not easy to fix is
because the macro environment is so
terrible.
>> Yes.
>> And it's going to keep getting worse.
>> Yes.
>> And you had And let's be clear, one of
the reasons that I always say that my
folks are going to like this market is
we have zero overhead.
>> Yeah. We have income coming from
somewhere else.
>> Yeah.
>> Right. So we can we can take the shot
and if it doesn't work it does we we
don't have to do a deal.
>> Yeah. Me and Brian's folks are
>> overhead. You have to do a deal.
>> Yeah. Well and me and Brian's folks are
active operators, right?
>> Active operators and passive income like
real estate investors.
>> I mean for the active operators um this
will be
>> this is a hard season.
>> Yeah. In my opinion it's worse. It's
about to be worse than 2022.
>> Um I think it's
>> it's I mean there's less transactions.
Uh rates ain't coming down. No, they're
going higher.
>> Um,
>> yeah,
>> it's
man, I I just so for me too, I also talk
to so many other investors and so I've
got a pulse. I'm like, what's going on?
>> And so my
>> people losing just as bad as 21 and
>> Yeah. Like my thing is, and I always say
this to the team, I go, "Look, if we're
struggling, what does that mean for
everyone else? We're just the only ones
that might talk about it, right?
Everyone else just acts like
everything's good."
>> I'm like, "Bro, this is hard. If I think
it's hard
>> and things usually come pretty easy for
me,
>> I can't imagine how hard it is for
everyone else. And then I'll get, you
know, people, well, freak, we're killing
it. And it's like, great, that's great.
You're killing it.
>> You got the one little market.
>> Yeah. Yeah. But like I I just know macro
objectively. It's hard. Yeah.
>> Agreed.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. I mean, if you want to put numbers
on it, so we were on track to do roughly
four million transactions existing and
not new home sales. We'll probably be at
38. I think it was the last video, maybe
the one before that, you said we were
going to go lower, and I thought you
were wrong. You're going to be right.
Zub, I'm gonna be right again. Holy
crap. I can't take it.
>> This is too much.
>> At least finally you's gonna go to the
bathroom real quick.
>> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's
>> too excited. Me and your cell phone.
>> Yeah.
>> No, cuz it's been a year of like
consistently. I'm like, "This is going
to happen." And then Zuber's like, "No,
you're saw 8% mortgage rates coming."
>> Yes, bro. I feel like it's so obvious
thinking in 27 or it's gonna happen.
>> Well, hold on. There's news that he's
going to raise interest rates two more
times this year, right?
>> Oh, you're talking about the Fed now.
>> Yeah. Yeah. So, I think I think it'll be
one, but yeah, there's rumors.
>> There's rumors that the Fed is going to
increase interest rates two more times
this year when they're already really
high, but we're going into the best
market for real estate investors. No,
it's actually going to get worse. It's
actually going to get harder.
>> How do you define a good market? A good
market, I would define it as
transactions are up.
>> Well, there you go. So, that's where we
disagree.
>> And there's opportunity to make money.
If interest rates continue to climb and
you're buying rental properties and
rents are coming down, then there's even
>> rents coming down.
>> Yeah, in some markets, yeah, 100%. It's
harder to rent houses now um than I
would say last year.
>> Yeah. But what is likely going to happen
again won't be everywhere. But as prices
go up or stay flat and interest rates go
up, your rentals will become more solid
because people can't afford to buy.
>> Yeah.
>> People already can't afford to buy.
>> Yeah. It's just going to get worse.
>> But a lot of people can't afford to rent
either.
>> Yeah. No, people just can't afford
anything.
>> Yeah.
>> So, I I want to bring this up, too. So,
I had um
>> I I've heard this argument before. I'll
bring up a couple of random arguments
I've heard. Sure.
>> So, uh somebody said, "Well, you know,
7%'s the interest rates that have always
happened." I heard that all the time.
I'm like, "Yeah,
>> not at all-time highs." Yeah. And and
also too, like I saw a stat the other
day of like wages versus affordability.
This is the largest ever in history.
>> It's never been this bad.
>> Y
>> and essentially it's like I look at the
the American dream of owning a home and
I'm like it ain't the dream no more. Gen
Z don't give a crap that they they don't
believe they can own a home.
>> No, they just gamble.
>> Yeah. They would rather gamble and you
know, whatever, right? And rent
everything. And I would too if I if I
looked at, man, owning a home's 3,500 a
month or I can rent the same home for
2,000 in major markets like Las Vegas,
why would I want to own it?
>> What would you do with I'm curious, what
would you do with the extra 1,500
>> gamble?
>> I throw it in stocks.
>> Well, I mean, if I wasn't going to start
a business, but like if I wanted to
invest,
>> I'm just going to throw it in the stock
market. But if I wanted to bet on
myself, almost use that money to fund a
business.
>> Yeah, that's where I thought you would
go.
>> Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, typical Gen Z guy.
or you just throw it in uh DraftKings,
it
>> Exactly. Price pick. Sorry. Sponsor.
>> Yeah. [laughter]
>> Yeah. But yeah, I think there's that
aspect of it. I think um I already have
had multiple people reach out. So, ever
since I dropped that video, tons of
people reaching out um friends and
people and they're like, "Bro, I've been
thinking about leaving too. I've been
thinking about this." Like big people.
>> Yeah.
>> Um I want to talk about
>> But but the problem is with everyone
else, and this is the key, and I think
we were laughing about it because I
didn't see all the reactions. I'm like,
I don't even want to watch these.
>> But, uh,
>> I watched them all.
>> Davilla watches them all. They They get
fired up more than me.
>> A couple of dozen. I don't know if it's
all of them.
>> They're all terrible. I haven't seen one
yet.
>> I thought there was one that was pretty
good.
>> From who?
>> Uh, I'll look it up offline.
>> Yeah. Well, I could summarize them all.
>> They're like, this is me summarizing a
10-minute video into two sentences.
>> Okay.
>> Ryan quit real estate, but I'm going to
keep doing real estate. That's it.
That's lit. That's pretty much it.
That's pretty much You could watch their
videos, but they're like, "Yeah, Ryan
quit." And you know,
>> you know what? I think they're tough,
but I'm going to keep going.
>> Yeah. Again, this is why Ryan was a
unicorn is cuz he had that he had the
option.
>> Yeah.
>> Right. No, but some of these guys don't
have options. They got to make it work.
>> How they feed their family.
>> Yeah. Yeah. You have no choice.
>> Yeah. And that's back to your is it 2022
when you lost a million bucks? You
didn't have a choice.
>> No, I had no choice.
>> You made it work.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. That is funny. I had um this guy I
was talking to online uh you know he's
like always critical of guys and he's
like honestly bro like if I was making a
million bucks playing golf I' I'd
freaking do it too. He's like I'd never
touch another house in my life.
>> Actually I think that's the one I
replied to one of the guys that said
that
>> and I was like
>> dude who was it?
>> Uh his name's uh Aaron.
>> Okay.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Um but anyway we were
talking in the DMs and stuff too. He's
like I don't even like golf but I would
do that. [laughter]
>> Be the same guy.
>> And I was like but I do like golf.
>> Yeah. I win.
>> Um, so yeah, anyways, like yeah, it's
all opportunity cost and that's what I
say in the video, too. It's like if you
have better opportunities, why would you
fight a falling knife essentially and
and headwinds against
>> like again, right, let's go back to
earlier. You said you were spending an
hour a week.
>> Yeah.
>> And you were making roughly 10%.
>> Yeah.
>> Last couple of quarters have been rough.
Break even, maybe a little loss. You
look at the situation, you go from 1
hour to 20 hours.
>> Yeah.
>> And that takes away from all these other
things. M19, dad build, pan partners,
all the others.
>> It's like it's an easy decision.
>> Yeah,
>> it was an easy decision.
>> Yeah.
>> The only part that made it not easy was
I I'll explain the only reason for not
this was the only one I could figure out
not to quit.
>> Okay. was
I spent my whole well I don't say my
whole life but the last decade plus
building credibility and reputation in
that space and then you build an online
brand around this and you can I could
still just keep it going and coaching
>> sure
>> and keeping that going and maybe the
coaching income offsets that not being
worth it and whatever else right but you
know the moment you decide hey I'm out
you're like kind of throwing away eight
years of work on your brand. Like
imagine you've been doing your YouTube
videos for a decade
>> and you're like, I actually don't like
Reynolds anymore.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Right.
>> It'd be like, what?
>> And everyone following you is like,
what? And you know, now anything you
ever want to do in the future is kind of
like already tainted at that point
>> because even if you're like, you know
what, I actually believe in Reynolds
again. They're like, bro, you're the guy
who
>> you're the guy that quit.
>> Yeah. So for me, I was like, if I'm
going to do this, then it's like kind of
like a no going back decision.
>> And that's why I was even contemplating
in my mind just not doing it, but not
saying anything. And so people were
like, "Oh, this guy, you know, what a
genius."
>> I like the fact that you had the balls
to say it. That meant you were
committed.
>> Yeah. And people were like, "What a
genius marketing strategy. Everyone's
talking about him." Well, one, I didn't
know it was going to go that viral. Um,
but two, it wasn't even about like we
haven't sold any more M19 than usual.
It's not like,
>> yeah,
>> we got all this extra crap out of it. I
was just like, honestly,
>> I just always share the wins, the
losses, and whatever, and so here's why.
And um I don't know, maybe someone will
take some from it. Like I said, I've had
multiple people and even in different
industries like, dude, honestly, I'm
getting so burnt out by X and I've been
thinking about moving, but I'm like so
my identity is in this thing. It's not
even real estate for them.
>> Yeah. Yeah. You're saying
>> they're like, man, how did like how do
you move on? And one thing I Here's one
thing I will say because I've gone
through identity shifts before. Um,
[clears throat]
>> you know, baseball was the first time I
ever had to give up my professional
identity.
>> Let's quit.
>> Let's quit. Yep. Retire is what we use.
>> Yeah.
>> Retire is better. Retire is better.
Yeah.
>> Actually, one one of my uh Shane Shane
Sigby text me. He goes, "Congrats. I saw
your video. Super classy. Congrats on
retiring from house." That's what he
said. [laughter]
I was like, "Dude, yeah. Yeah, that's
what I thought. I retired.
>> [laughter]
>> I'm going the I'll go into the Hall of
Fame.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> So, no. Um but I you know I quit
baseball retired and I just remember
>> like most guys who stop sports it's it's
so hard because they have no clue what
they're going to do next. Right. But for
me, I was already doing real estate and
so it was very easy. I was like, "Yeah,
dude. I'm already
>> Yeah. So So I think that's important,
right? So you were playing um
>> minor league baseball while I was
already doing it."
>> Yeah. So, I was already super successful
at real estate while I was playing and I
was like, "Bro, this next thing is so
much better."
>> And that was the same thing with couch
flipping, too. Like, I was flipping
couches and I started doing real estate.
>> When you started doing the real estate
and you were still in minor league ball.
>> Yeah.
>> When you started that, was that more
because baseball was a six-month
commitment and you needed something else
to do?
>> Exactly.
>> Okay.
>> It was never about I want to be a real
estate guy. I just wanted to fund my
life for baseball.
>> Yeah. I just want to make sure I
understand. So, at the time you were
doing that, it was creating cash cuz
minor leagues don't pay anything.
>> Yep.
>> Right. And you, I'm guessing, still
thought you would end up in the major
leagues.
>> I mean, that was the goal for the first
bunch of years, but towards the last
years, I was just playing for fun.
>> Okay. But yeah, it's but it's like the
big dream is the million-dollar contract
with him in major leagues. I'm doing
this to feed my family. I'm a married
man.
>> Exactly.
>> But, you know, by that last year, I'm
like 27, 28 years old, and so I'm not
naive. And I know I'm like, dude, I'm
not making to the bigs, so I'm just
going to milk this and I'm making enough
money in real estate.
>> Oh, good.
>> So, anyways, yeah, I I go and transition
into real estate. And it was easy
because I already was doing the next
running.
>> Yeah. And so, I think like even with M19
and stuff, quitting real estate's easy
because I'm just like, bro, I'm already
doing
>> it. I already am doing the next thing.
It's already proven to be 10 times
better.
>> It's not even like to me a big deal.
It's what it's it's a much bigger deal
to everyone else apparently. But like
it's really like I was just like, "All
right, whatever." Like I woke up the
next day and I was like, "All right."
Like he was I was like, "All right, so
let's train him."
>> Yeah.
>> It was already on to the next thing.
>> So I wanted to talk about the people
because I don't know that everybody I
think everybody thinks or maybe they
don't
>> like all these people are going to be
let go. You're firing. You're not doing
any of that. You're you're converting
them.
>> No. And I do want to say for everyone
listening um and I did this on our
Monday call, but you know to honor
everybody that's ever worked at Home Run
Offer, you know, we've had so many
people throughout the years that um have
led the company and been a part of the
company, you know, uh just even by name
like guys like uh Monty who is my CEO
for many years, Sean Bob who was as
well, Michael Stevenson, you know, and
then current people like Michael Smith
who's, you know, been with me for eight
years and Kayla and Isaac. Um, you know,
we've had other people like Chuck Bob,
random names, Inz, and you know, Ray
Rodriguez, who's running his own thing
now. He's about to net a million bucks,
his first or his first time ever, you
know, and so
>> Liliana,
>> Liliana,
>> Nilsa,
>> Nilsa. Yep. Doing TC for so long. And
>> tons of people just over the years um
that lit and I said this on our Monday
call. go. If they don't do what they do
and allow me to be able to not be so
involved,
>> all the other stuff that you guys are
currently a part of, all you M19 people,
all you this people, you don't exist.
You don't even have a Well, they exist.
>> You don't have a career here unless all
of these people did what they did. And
so, I'm just grateful for all of them
through the good times, the bad times,
the easy times, the hard times. Um but
yeah, you know, so all of those uh sales
people and stuff, they moved over to new
roles and it's great.
>> Yeah. So the team is the team still.
>> It's not like you came in and whacked 50
heads and bingo bango, the bottom line
looks better.
>> Well, no. And it got me thinking too
about stewardship, you know, just on
from a faith perspective. Stewardship is
just what do you do with your resources,
your time, money, energy, everything.
And I said, well, part of what I steward
are my employees.
>> Absolutely. And so I got to put them in
the best position for their skills,
their time, their family, their energy.
And I really felt like, dude, we're
about to go into Q4. Like initially in
my mind, I was like, I'm going to give
it till the end of the year to see what
happens. But I already know Q4 is going
to suck. It just always sucks.
>> Yeah.
>> And so even in good times, it's like not
great.
>> And so I'm like, dude, why why spend 90
day? Like, let's just do it now. Get
them in positions to succeed
>> and let them set up for next year.
They'll be set up for next year and
they'll have a better end to this year
and it's already playing out that way.
>> Yeah.
>> You guys know I love the game of golf
and that is why I started M19. It is a
golf mastermind for entrepreneurs who
are doing over seven figures in their
business and who want to go on bucket
list golf trips together. We already
have hundreds of members all across the
country. And we've been to some of the
best courses in the world. Places like
Pebble Beach, Pinehurst, Bandon Dunes,
and many others. The course is the best
place to do deals, make great
relationships, and have fun. So, go to
mastermind 19.com today.
>> So, I want to talk about the dashboard.
I don't know if your team could insert
the dashboard that you put on IG. I
think we should put that.
>> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Screenshot. Yeah.
>> Because again, I think I don't I think
people hear you're quitting or quit and
they don't really understand just how
easy a decision it was. So, as I
remember the chart, it starts up here
and goes down and the first leg is like
500 grand or 800 grand
>> and then you're doing several. It's
basically a $1.2 million in like a
30-day window.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Hello. Is anybody hear that number?
Like, yeah. What are you doing? I mean,
>> yeah.
>> Easy decision.
>> Yeah. And I just, it's funny because I
made first I made the video on Saturday
and it got reacted to like hundreds of
times. And then uh people were talking
crap and some people were like, "Oh,
freaking that business ain't doing that
good." And blah blah blah.
>> He can't hit 300.
>> Yeah. Like no way. And then I was just
like,
>> "Yeah,
>> okay. What?" I was like,
>> seats.
>> Yeah.
>> Him and I were at the pool, you know,
doing it. We were doing their baby
shower. Um or not baby shower, gender
reveal.
>> Gender reveal.
>> Congratulations to gang of gang.
>> Yeah. And I was just like, "Dude, I got
a really good idea. I'm just going to
like flex on them and it'll be pretty
funny." And so whatever
>> convert half the people. I mean, at that
point, it had to be obvious.
>> Yeah. And I was just like, you know,
here's the deal. And and I also had this
idea. I wanted to share the origin of
M19 anyways because it isn't a 13-month
business. It actually
>> Right. That was a good point.
>> is like a fiveyear business.
>> Yeah. 2500 bucks comes.
>> Yeah. And I showed all the screenshots
of its history. Like in 2021, I had the
idea. I was like, "Hey, would anyone
want to golf with me?" And it evolved
into what it is today. But yeah, I just
showed the screenshot. I go, "This is
our 13th month. We just hit over a
million bucks. The month before we hit 8
something." Um, and if you see that big
spike right there, that's all renewals.
That's our first renewal. And the churn
was extremely low, meaning everyone
loves it.
>> And um, that's going to happen every
year forever.
>> Yeah. just it starts
>> and it's going to compound.
>> Correct.
>> And so at some point in hopefully, you
know, one day, I don't want to jinx it,
but ideally there'll be a million
dollars a month in just renewals
>> probably.
>> Not even just, you know, new business
and everything else. And I'm just like,
that's kind of crazy to think about that
you could build a business where you get
a check for a million dollars a month
pretty much to the bottom line.
>> Yeah. Big margin.
>> So, um, yeah, I'm just like
>> brain damage, right? very little, maybe
some coordination and some
>> I would even if I had complete brain
damage in that business, if I talked to
motivated sellers
>> and did bull crap all day, I would still
I'd be like all in once
>> I'm in. Okay.
>> Yeah. Whatever. For that financial
reward, I would do that.
>> Yeah. Okay. Fair enough.
>> But the fact that Yeah. I don't have to
do any of that either is like
>> And you like it. I mean, that's the
other You never loved real estate.
>> No, I never did. No.
>> But you love you love sports and golf is
your thing.
>> Yeah. And I love the benefits of real
estate.
>> Correct. I don't love the the whatever
you would call it the doing, right?
>> I've never I've never fixed the toilet.
I've never g like I just don't want to
do any of it.
>> Yeah.
>> But I love the reward of it. And but
this I actually genuinely love doing.
>> That's like in baseball. I played
baseball for 1,200 bucks a month for
eight years.
>> Yeah. You only do that for love,
nothing.
>> You do it because you love it.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> So Brian, what what does this mean for
you? What are you doing? You going to
quit and become a Christian podcaster?
>> Uh no. I mean, my real estate crushed
this year, honestly. So, like,
>> congratulations.
>> Yeah, we we crushed it even if notice.
So, so we So, how big's the team?
>> Uh, so there's me, uh, COO, we have one,
two,
three, four, four acquisition people and
two disposition people.
>> So, you've got seven people on payroll,
>> not even yourself.
>> They're they're all commission only.
>> Oh, commission only. Okay.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> So, Okay, that's good.
>> Yeah. So that's another thing like I've
heard you say like oh the the payroll
and all these things like it's not that
scary like to have
>> unless you run big marketing like I do.
>> Exactly. Yeah. We don't run big
marketing like himers.
>> Yeah. We don't do all that. So
>> Ryan Brian is like the opposite of me.
He's like very
>> You guys are more alike than you know.
>> Yeah. Know why we rip on each other.
>> I know.
>> It's like two brothers that are like
>> he's always I'm like you guys are saying
the same brother like much older
brother. much older.
>> Like two generations older. But no, like
I'm like I'm very frugal.
>> Super frugal. Conservative
>> my rentals this year. They still don't
cash flow. [laughter]
>> Well, he'd have a capital expenditure
budget.
>> Well, you need 20 years to grow. Like
they need 20 years.
>> I still have one dud that I'm like
>> that is Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm still
holding on to that. I just can't.
>> Yeah. But um
>> yeah, we crush it in real estate. I'm
going to buy another business. So, I'm
looking to buy another business. I put
it out there.
>> Is it going to uh be around real estate
or something?
>> I want it to be around home services
because I have such a big network and
following around
>> in Vegas or Southern California.
>> You want you want to hear something so
funny about Brian. So,
>> yes.
>> Uh the more embarrassing the better.
[laughter]
>> Actually, this is kind of funny to think
about. So, Brian started out as my first
student back in 2018. Obviously, he's
crushed it. He still crushes it. He's
he's lasted longer than me. And yeah,
you quit already.
>> Yeah. Yeah. So, so he's still going, but
uh you know, then we became partners at
Wealthy Investor and so he took over the
rookie program which you know has lasted
this whole time
>> and um
>> good things.
>> Yeah. And he uh
>> you know after doing being partners for
like three plus years, he's like hey I
want to like just focus back on real
estate. And so he gave all his equity
back and obviously still buddies and
stuff and uh you know built his own
business. And then
uh this year I was like man I really
like I'm getting burned out with social
media. You want to like I want to do
different stuff. You want to co-host
with me? And so he he was the co-host
for six months for no pay, just doing it
for fun. And um then I said, "Hey dude,
I want to partner with you on the
podcast and start monetizing it better
and you know all this stuff." And so
he's like, "Okay." And so now we're
partners on the podcast and I pay him a
percentage of gross revenue. So it's not
even anything to do with net, right? So
you would think like for a normal person
it's like well then let's just
>> do as much as we can, right? And so I'm
like hey I want to spend more on ads and
you know all this other stuff. And he's
like oh dude are you sure? Because then
with I'm like bro you get paid just like
the growth.
>> Yeah. It don't even matter. Like, but
his mind is just always so like
>> the net and the penny pinching and all
this stuff and it's great, but I'm like,
bro, you're not even on net. Just
>> slang. Yeah. Like it doesn't even
matter.
>> And it's like um our our minds just work
very different.
>> Yeah. I think cuz I grew up like with I
remember your financial hardship. So,
I'm used to thinking about like
>> every penny like how do we make the most
out of every penny? even like this penny
go twice as
>> we were talking about I shouldn't I'm
not going to say the exact thing but we
both were paying for a software
>> and he was paying how much were you
paying a year
>> 50k
>> 50k a year I'm paying like a tenth of
that but it's just being more
resourceful and figuring out ways to
maximize every dollar
>> because yeah like cuz I think I could
retire with if I could invest $2 million
>> I could retire
like I reverse engineered.
>> So, so, okay. So, what does $2 million
net you? Is that is it 100K? Is it 200K?
>> Uh, a year it would be like it would be
about a quarter of a million dollars a
year I would net.
>> So, you need 12.5% on your money. That's
what
>> you're just lending hard money at that
point.
>> Yeah.
>> All that's all I could think of at 12
and a half.
>> Yeah, cuz like my current cuz my current
rental portfolio I owe about5
total.
>> Okay. If I pay off about 2 million of
that, I'm done. Like I could literally
just be completely okay done with real
estate. So I've been like
>> every time I get a certain amount more I
start chopping it down and I've been
chopping it down this year. But um
>> Okay.
>> That's just the way my brain works. I
want to get the most with the least.
>> Yeah. Exactly. Where he wants to just go
big. He wants to go for 100 million or
whatever he needs. I need two million.
>> Well, I don't need it.
>> Yeah. But you want it. Well, I just
>> to me I just I'm like I got to just
maximize the best of my ability.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
>> Like it's not even about
>> I don't need
>> Yeah. When was the last time you thought
about money? I don't think
>> No, I don't like it doesn't matter. It's
just I want to be the best that I can be
>> at your thing. Whatever your Yeah.
>> I just want to maxim like the way
[clears throat] I look at it is I work
30 hours a week in the office. I want to
just make the most amount of money
possible during the 30 hours. What's
that going to be? What activities am I
going to do to maximize that? That's how
I look at it
>> in given these bit. So again, M19, Dad
Built, Pona Partners, the others,
Christian, uh,
>> tax, tailor, tax, um, you know, the pod.
>> Yeah.
>> Still 30 hours.
>> Yeah.
>> Well, that's why real estate doesn't
make sense because you don't you don't
have a base structure.
>> Yeah. My thing is I've always been 30
hours. I mean, when I wrote the wealthy
way and everything else, if nothing has
changed now, the activities changed, but
like
>> changed and would have required more
hours, which would have meant you would
have had to cut. Yeah, but like I've
been able to always hire good people and
figure it out and whatever and then move
and pivot when things get hard.
>> Yeah.
>> But yeah, I mean one thing I will say
and this was an interesting point of
criticism that I was reflecting on. Uh a
lot of people were well the haters
anyways. It was like there was three
groups of people that I saw. There was
people who were fans and they're like
bro freak this is like good for him.
It's awesome, right? Then there was like
a middle group who's like I'm not a fan
but like I get it like this market sucks
and I could see why he would do that
whatever. Right? And then there's haters
that are like this guy just jumps from
thing to thing. First it was yeah
>> Amazon and it's NFTTS and it's this crap
and that crap. And I was really
reflecting on it and I was like you know
that's fair like
>> no I was just like yeah I mean I I guess
you could say that. Um because I have
jumped from a lot of things and I was
like I don't apologize for jumping to
things because I'm going to keep doing
lots of things. So it's like why? Like
it just is who I am at this point.
>> Um
>> nuh-uh but I'm actually launching this
new thing.
>> Yeah. Yeah. [laughter] And I'm just like
that's fair. But then I was just like
but you know you also got to be fair and
be like but that that new thing is a
really good idea. I'm like that's like
like you got to be fair if you're gonna
be fair but if you're a hater then you
know it is what it is. Yeah. But um it
did get me thinking because I was like,
man, I'm reflecting because I I was
reflecting on my whole career the last
decade. I'm just like, man,
you know, what have I learned from all
this? Where have I screwed up? What did
I do well? Like what could I, you know,
the next decade do, you know, and what
can I impart to anyone listening here?
And what I discovered was as I thought
through it is like I basically had an
18month stretch where I made a lot of
really bad decisions. Um,
you know, probably from like the middle
of 2021 to the beginning of 2023,
you know, basically I got into the four
hardest things I've ever had to go
through. Um, by just like not being
smart and taking my eye off the ball,
you know, like mil 21, I get into the
Amazon thing because I'm just like, it's
a good opportunity and I was making
money doing it and then it just ended up
being the biggest nightmare ever. Then,
um, you know, middle of 2022 and leading
up to it, I don't notice that the market
is changing and I'm not paying attention
to my team. And so, we're still buying
all these houses. And then, guess what?
We're sitting on a bunch of houses that
are a falling knife with the market, you
know, rates doubling and all that. And
so, um, that ended up burning me big
time. And then, you know, getting in the
NFTs and, you know, for me anyways, I
thought we did a great job, but whatever
the perception is, whatever it is. And
you know, there's tons of reputational
harm from that and you know, all that
stuff. And then I get into syndications
at the end of 21, which is literally the
worst time you could have done
syndications because guess what?
Everyone says, "Well, why aren't you
buying rentals? Why aren't you why are
you only flipping? Why you could raise
money and and all the rich people do big
deals?" And so, you know, all of them
basically were from the standpoint of if
you can do it, why wouldn't you do it?
And the truth is I could do it and I
did. And then you look at it and you're
like, "Yeah, I shouldn't have." You
know, from all the brain damage um and
everything else. And like I think about
it now and I'm like, "Man, dude, I made
a lot of dumb decisions."
>> That was a rough 18 months. the well not
only was it a rough 18 months but I
still pay the price for it today
>> because it's it's just like because I
think about it now and I'm like okay so
all those decisions were made in
18-month period but from 23 on basically
23 24 25 26 four years I've made pretty
good decisions but yet I still you know
>> still here yeah
>> well I still have to deal with the
repercussions of it and all that stuff
but then you also think like
[clears throat]
I'm going to deal with it 20 years from
now you you know, 10 years from now, not
maybe financially, but just people
yapping, right? Cuz I think about it
too, like tons of entrepreneurs who have
failed at things and it's like, oh well,
he went bankrupt here and he did this
and you know, so people still deal with
it, right?
Um, so whatever. Like I'm going to have
to deal with it the rest of my life and
it is what it is. But I'm just like,
yeah, you know,
I guess um what I can say is for anybody
listening to this that um has made bad
decisions and you got to live with like
losing money in a real estate deal or a
business that failed or shutting down a
business. It's like, dude, you know,
people are going to say what they say
and if people are still bringing up
stuff about you from four years ago,
>> they're just fans by another name.
>> Yeah. I mean, at that point, that's
their prerogative and like that kind of
I don't know, like deal with it. Like
that's who you are. But for me and for
anyone else listening to this, it's like
all you can do is continue to make
better decisions after the fact, you
know,
>> and own the bad ones, which you have.
>> Yeah. You own the bad ones and you, you
know, whatever. And people still may not
like what you did or how you handled it
or whatever, but all you can do in any
point of life is what are you going to
do today, you know, going forward? And
so for me, I'm like, yeah, I can look
back now and say, yeah, the last four
years I've made good business decisions
while still dealing with the bad ones.
And um I think I made a good business
decision this week on shutting down the
the house opening.
>> I think it's the only decision you could
have made. I mean, just to be clear, I
think I don't think it I mean, I know
you had to pray on it and
>> yeah,
>> you know, do all of that. I don't think
there was a I think it was an easy
decision.
>> Yeah. But, you know, it's like you still
get criticism, right? So,
>> you're you're what once you're as famous
as you are, you're going to get
criticism no matter what. So, it's
>> I I think for me too, what was
interesting was I don't consider my like
I don't look at myself like being this
famous guy because I don't I I look at
real celebrities as like famous.
>> Yeah.
>> And then I'm just like how are there
like hundreds of videos like on this
like this is like crazy.
>> 50 of them 30 of them. Is real estate so
small? So you're less big fish on a
small
>> I don't know. Top top of the mountain.
>> Yeah. I like how we talk in past tense.
[laughter]
>> You did out of the space. Yeah, that's
true. That's true. You can't be looking
up the mountain of equipment.
>> Yeah, that's
>> No, no, that's for the retired people.
>> Yeah, you're in like you're in like top
five real estate people, but you're not
top five golf people. So, you're just
moving into a bigger pool.
>> That's right. That's right.
>> I'm curious when you look going to be
me, Tiger.
>> Yeah. Yeah. You, Bryson, [laughter] I
I'm ter.
[laughter]
>> Who are the top golf influence nonPJ
players?
>> Oh, influencers. Grant Horvat. Good.
Good.
>> They are. Yeah.
>> Grant Horvat's like the man. Uh Bob does
sports.
>> Okay. I don't know. LeBron.
>> LeBron and Kevin. Yeah.
>> Seriously though, they're like becoming
golf. Like to think about that there's
going to be people who are introduced to
golf through LeBron James and Kevin
Hart.
>> Yeah.
>> Is crazy. But that's actually happening.
>> But let let me even talk about this too,
right? So we talk about somebody
messaged or commented this on my video
and it's it's true. They're like, you
know, you're you're a level, let's call
level 10 talent moving into a level 10
opportunity, right? Or a level 10
vehicle. Yeah. And it's like, it's true
because the real estate market right now
is not a good vehicle with
>> it is a shitty vehicle.
>> Yeah. Like all the momentum is against
you. All the wind is against you. Like
it's hard and
>> yeah, running a business.
>> It's like there's other vehicles where
the wind's with you. AI, um,
>> social media,
>> social media, golf, like
>> in person stuff,
>> in person stuff. Like, so if LeBron and
these guys are golfing and, uh, bringing
all these new eyeballs to the sport,
it's only a matter of time before other
entrepreneurs start golfing. They find
out about M19. It's the only option and
then boom. This is the other part, too,
I want to bring up. [clears throat]
>> I was talking about seasons, and this is
really important. Um, and you you've
mentioned on other podcast, but like
there's windows of opportunity to make a
lot of money.
>> Correct.
>> And I believe I'm in one of those
windows of opportunity with M19 where
okay, we just finished the first year.
We've got almost 600 members. My goal in
the next 12 months is to get to 2,000.
And
>> I think if I accomplish that goal,
essentially it's the game is already
won.
>> Was done.
>> Like I I think
>> Yeah. just the re then the reason I say
that is because it's is I've studied
more and more network effect businesses.
So, a network effect.
>> Yeah. Like just for everyone listening,
a network effect is like, "Hey,
>> Uber and Lyft, um, they were battling
because whoever got all the drivers and
all of the, you know, riders would win.
Airbnb won." You know, like once they
got all the host and they got all the,
you know, people who wanted to stay, no
one like anyone can create the Airbnb
app. It's not rocket science. But
because of the network effect, they want
Instagram's the same thing. And so for
me, I'm just like, look, if you're a
business owner who golfs and you want to
go on bucket list trips, by by the time
next year we have 2,000 members ideally,
um, and we have 30, 40 plus trips a
year,
you you look at join, you're like, okay,
I could join this group and there's
already 2,000 plus people. There's tons
of people in my market. There's already
high-c caliber people in every industry
and I can just join into this ready-made
thing that has so much options. If
somebody tries to compete with me,
they're starting from zero and dude,
they can't get members that fast.
>> No.
>> And you're gonna go compete with, oh, we
got like four trips this year and I have
like 20 member. Like, you can't compete.
>> So, I kind of think it's one of those
things where once it's there, it's it's
pretty much game over.
>> Mhm.
>> Um,
>> it's blue ocean, red ocean.
>> It's it's blue and and there will be
people who try to compete and copy and
all this stuff, but then those people
good business.
>> Yeah. then it but now also too they're
going to have to deal with uh everyone
knows they're a copycat too and so you
have the stigma of that you're just a
copycat loser. Yeah. And so like all of
those things play the role where it's
like hey
uh I got about a year and I think once
that hits it's it's pretty much over.
And I think at that point too with 2,000
members based on the math it's pretty
close to worth the nine figures.
>> Yeah. Another thing I think about that
most people don't understand, I actually
learned this from Ed Mlet, that there's
like six basic human needs and everyone
lands somewhere on all of them, but I'll
read them to you. So, one of them is
certainty.
>> So, I need that. That's something that I
value a lot. Ryan does not value that.
So, certy is like wanting security. They
want stability. They want
predictability. They want to feel safe.
He doesn't need that. I need that.
Another human need is uncertainty and
variety. He needs that. I don't need
that. So, people should be listening to
this to figure out where they lay on
these. Yeah. Uh the next one is feeling
important or valued. Some people need to
be recognized. Some people need to feel
respected. Some people need to feel
value. I don't really need that. I'm
like whatever about it. The next one is
love and connection. Some people like
with their work, they need to love it
and feel connection to their co-workers
and like whatever. I don't really need
that. Another one is growth.
>> So that is wanting to improve, learn,
process, and become better.
>> I'm high in that. I don't like to stay
stagnant. I like to like anything I do,
I just to make it grow.
>> And the last one is contribution. That
is like wanting to help others, make an
impact, feel that what you're doing
matters.
>> That's the only game I'm playing now.
>> Yeah. I don't necessarily need that.
Like with real estate wholesaling, it's
just like a transaction business. I
don't really care. I care about my
employees, but the business that I'm
doing is not, you know, helping society.
>> Then you're in a different season.
>> Exactly. So with Ryan, a lot of people
value certainty, but they look at what
he's doing and they're like, "Oh, that's
bad. That's wrong." But it's like, no,
he just has different needs for him,
right? If we forced him to do the same
thing for 50 years, he would die early
because he like this sauce. Seriously,
like you know. Yeah. And like for
example, my father-in-law,
this fool worked until he was 84 years
old because he loved what he was doing.
If we took that from him, he would have
died earlier.
>> Oh wow.
>> So people need to let
>> know yourself know thyself.
>> Yeah. They need to understand. And
that's Ed Mlet that gave
>> Ed Milelet uh the power of one more. But
I remember I read that for the first
time. I was like, "Oh, it really liked
it really helped me understand my
employees and like partners and yeah and
where I am and like cuz sometimes I
would look at stuff that he's doing and
I'm like why the freak does he just keep
changing? I don't even get it." Like
he'll like change change. But that's
something that he needs where there's
other people where like the brain works
different.
>> Yeah. There's other people where fear
like, "Hey, let's change to this. Let's
not be a realtor." They're like, "Oh,
but like
I'm a realtor. How am I going to do
something else?" So, yeah, I think
that's really important for people to
like self-reflect and look at. Worst
part about making a lot of money is that
you have to pay a lot of taxes on it.
This is exactly why I've partnered with
Taylor Strategy. You may have heard me
talk about all these different types of
strategies like cost segregations and
depreciation and lots of other things,
but the reality is there are so many
other strategies right now that you can
be taking advantage of. The team will
audit your situation this year and also
previous years to see if you're entitled
to tax savings that you did not take
advantage of. So, if that sounds good to
you, go to taylor-tax.com
today. Other than M19, so take M19 away.
>> Yeah. Which of your other things that
you're working on now are you mo most
excited about?
>> Well, um, the Christian toys, they're
not out yet.
>> Can you give us an example or is that
like hush hush?
>> Um, I'm not going to give the name
because it'll be a big launch, but
basically I'm really excited about them
because um, they'll be out for
Christmas.
>> Okay. This year.
>> Yeah, this year. Yep. So, they're going
to be out and uh,
>> I like them for three reasons.
Obviously, I'm solving my own problem. I
want Christian toys for my kids and
there's just not any good ones.
>> Okay.
>> Two, um it's feeding off collectibles,
which uh I love collectibles. I always
have. Um and so there's limited
versions. There's, you know, they're
blind boxes. You don't know what
character you're going to get, so
they're going to be really fun. And then
three is like, yeah, the opportunity for
it is massive. I mean,
>> I don't Are there any Christian?
>> No. No. The opportunity is massive. I
mean, it could be bigger than M19. And
um just because of the opportunity.
>> What age group? So people know to look
for it.
>> Well, that's the thing with
collectibles. I mean, they're for kids,
but adults love Pokémon. Yeah. So like I
I think it's for everyone.
>> Okay.
>> And uh I would collect them. I will
collect them. They're mine. Like you'll
see them in my office. They'll be on
that desk.
>> So um yeah, I'm I'm really excited about
that. I think that that has the most
fulfillment. Uh you know, we're giving a
huge portion of all the sales to Tent
Makers, my nonprofit.
>> Wow. Um,
>> so it ties together.
>> Yeah. Like, and that's the only reason I
even came up with it because, you know,
last year I was like, how do we raise
more money for the nonprofit? Like, I'm
tired of just like trying to get donors.
Yeah. And so, I was like, I want to
create a business that could fund it.
And I didn't have any ideas. And then
one day it just clicked because I was
just looking at all these Christian
toys. I'm like, why can't I find any
good toys?
>> And God's like,
>> yeah, exactly.
>> Yeah. Go, go do that.
>> And I'm like, I don't know how to make
toys. I don't. But you know, they're
they're they're going to be awesome. So,
okay.
>> I think that that's the one I'm most
excited about, most passionate about,
biggest opportunity
>> before Christmas, after Thanksgiving.
>> I think probably I mean, I'm waiting to
see when they all get here, but for sure
there will be pre-sales um during Black
Friday.
>> Okay. So, right around the corner.
>> Yep. So, yeah. I mean, they're launching
soon. Um there's that. I think uh I'm
really excited about my tax firm, Taylor
Tax. Uh we've grown that tremendously
over the last year. I got an to give
backstory on that just so everyone
knows, you know, I started an original
tax business back in 2020,
>> right?
>> We grew that large, ended up selling my
equity to my partner, got out of the tax
game for a couple years. Then um this I
really wasn't even looking to get back
in, but my one my one-on-one client,
Greg, um he'd been with me for years in
wealthy investor, you know, doing real
estate and tax. And he hired me to do
one-on-one coaching. He was at 400K um
the year before and we got him to a
million and after the year of 101 I go,
"Bro, honestly, you still didn't even do
like half the things like I would have
wanted you to do." Like I could we could
have been at 2 million if I was running
the show. And um because you know he's
great at fulfillment, but like the
marketing and the sales and all the
things that we're really naturally
inclined to do, you know, he doesn't
like doing that. And I said, "Dude, if
you just let me come in and do all that,
you focus on fulfillment. I'll focus on
marketing. will explode. And so, yeah, I
mean, that business is now um I think
it's like 250 was what we did last
month. And so, yeah, I think we can get
that to the goal is a million a month.
And I think once we get to a million a
month, that has a lot of value and we'll
sell it. And so, yeah, my goal is to
build that to sell. His is too. We're
aligned there. Um, Pana Partners is
pretty cool. I don't think that that's
sellable because it's uh we we just run
sales and marketing for uh coaches and
consultants and service providers. We'll
see. But um I mean that that business we
have to turn down clients because
there's so many people that want to work
with us for that.
>> Um
what else? Dad Built. So that one's
funny. I had Ivan on my my uh partner in
that. But when I when I got into that
one, he started it a year ago and he
wasn't, you know, he didn't have the
capital and the ad spend or the
marketing expertise and but he was
making great organic content. You know,
he had like 100,000 followers in a year
just making this content, handing dad's
hats and stuff like that.
>> And you know, it was doing like 10 grand
a month. And um we ended up uh
partnering up a few months back and the
last two months we've done over six
figures each month and um the only
reason it's not higher is because we ran
out of hats. So [laughter]
>> it's a nice problem to have.
>> Yeah. So I think that that one could
also do a million a month uh pretty
quickly.
>> So again, pretty easy to dump real
estate when you have all these other
options.
>> Yeah.
So, I wanted to I wanted to end with
this one, and you might want to clip
this up for the opening, but again, as I
said, you quit real estate. Should
everyone quit real estate?
>> I think there's a lot of people who
should.
>> Yeah.
>> I think there's a lot of people who are
scared, who are tired of it, who have
better opportunities in front of them,
who could use their skills for different
things, but um they're scared. They
don't know any other path or they have
an identity, you know, with it. And um
they just don't know what it's going to
look like. And I think that there's
there's a lot of people who should. And
then I think there's people who
shouldn't. I think there are people who
been at it for a long time. They love
the business and yeah, it's hard, but
they need to just push through it. And
it is what it is. And um just understand
that it's cyclical and they're going to
have to just grind. And you know, that's
that. I was talking to um a couple of my
former students and some of them are in
in M19 now. One of them was like, "Man,
dude, my title company, I just, you
know, got it couple years ago and it's
already bigger than my other thing." and
uh you know I'm getting tired of like
these flips and we I lost money on a
couple of flips and the market and this
and that. I'm like why don't you focus
all in on your title company.
He's like okay and I go like let's just
do a thought process and I shared this
with a guy and I was like why not like
what would happen if all the time you
spent talking to sellers and everything
else you spent throwing events to get
people to use your title company sending
people same sending the same sales guys
out to brokerages to try and get them to
use your title company. all the money
you spent on marketing, marketing your
title company, what do you think the
outcome would be? And he's like, I think
I'd make way more money,
>> I guess. So, why wouldn't you do it? It
just never crosses your mind because
you've done this other thing for so
long.
>> And, you know, I was give up.
>> Yeah. And I was even talking to my other
buddy who um I won't say who, he just
got into life insurance. And uh
literally, he messaged me about the
video. He goes, "Bro,
>> I don't want to feel like a quitter and
stop doing this, but I'm not like liking
it the way that I thought." And I said,
"So why don't you just quit?" [laughter]
And this guy already has money. And I
was like, "So why don't you just stop
and focus on the other thing?" He's
like, "I don't know, man. I don't want
to." You know, it's just this idea of
like, it just never occurs to people
that you can just stop.
>> Yeah.
>> Like I'm like, "Why don't you just stop
it? You could.
>> It's identity."
>> Well, and he literally texted me on the
show just now. He's like, "It's done."
>> So what do you think? We'll ask you,
Brian. Should everybody quit real
estate?
I think if you're going to do real
estate part-time, you should quit
because it's not going to work. Like,
this is like an allin or nothing uh
business right now. I always use the
analogy. So, let's say me and me and
you, if we wrestled,
>> who would win? Let's just tell a little
lie. Who would win?
>> Let's say you.
>> Sure.
>> Okay. We'll say you, right?
>> Okay.
>> Cuz it's just me against you.
>> Understood. Now, let's just say we
wrestle and you're going up against me
and Ryan. Who's going to win?
>> Right.
>> Okay.
>> All right. Let's say me and six of my
employees go up against you.
>> We're going to beat you every single
time.
>> So, I have a team that's working right
now while we're doing this podcast.
They're working on Saturdays. They're
working.
>> They're grinding every single day
looking for deals, negotiating even when
I don't feel like it. Yeah,
>> we're going to smoke the person that's
trying to look for deals part-time.
>> Um, so I don't think real estate is a
part-time business right now. Maybe
later, like during COVID, people could
come in as a side hustle, flip a house,
buy a rental, make money, do an Airbnb.
>> Just so I'm clear, when you say
part-time, is that a full-time employee
working somewhere else doing real
estate? Are you talking about like a
like a
>> I'm talking about time invested. Like
you have to be able to spend about 40
hours a week, I think, to make this
actually work.
>> Now, are you talking buying one rental a
year? Are you talking flipping and
wholesaling?
>> I even think I don't think you should
buy rentals right now if you don't have
if you're not making over $150,000 a
year. I don't even think you should buy
a rental. Like the only reason you
should buy a rental in my opinion is if
you live in an area where houses are
less than $100,000 and they cash flow or
you have a huge you have a huge income
where you need to offset it by buying
rentals and you know doing a cost
segregation. But besides that, if you're
trying to make $10,000 a month and live
off of it, I don't think you should go
buy rentals. I don't I I think it
doesn't work anymore. But that's what I
think about real estate. Are there
people still making money in real
estate? Yes. We did six figures last
month, you know, it's the beginning.
>> I'm just curious. How many deals? Six.
>> Uh, four.
>> So, 25K a pop.
>> Yeah. 25K a top a pop. We did one for
like 60, one for 10, but
>> clearly some people are still making
money.
>> There's still, bro, I know people that
made a million dollars this year. Our
friend, uh, I don't know if we want to
say it, but Ray Rodriguez hit us up. He
He said he netted a million dollars.
This is his first year.
>> I said that earlier.
>> Yeah. He This is the first year he
netted over a million dollars. So, it's
still possible.
>> He's 25.
>> He's 25 years old.
>> 25. Wow.
>> Yeah. So, that's what I'm saying.
There's still so much money to be made
in real estate, but if you think you're
gonna just do this part-time and you're
going to look on Zillow for an hour a
week and and make money, it's just not
going to happen.
>> Oh, that we vastly disagree. That's
okay. That's okay. I'm right anyway. You
You'll come back later.
>> You'll be like, "All right, Brian."
Yeah.
>> Brian has been right a lot. Certainly
been right about transactions. I'll give
it a market forecast. But
>> do I predict that it's a great industry
to get into long-term? No. I think
regulations are getting harder. The
politics are politicians are starting to
become more and more anti-real. States
are changing the rules.
>> States are changing rules. There's more
laws coming in California. I heard
wholesaling is uh about to be banned
here in Las Vegas. Wow. Yeah. So, like
in the long term, I don't think it's a
great industry to get into. If you're
starting, if you're going to start a
brand new business and you're looking
for what you want to do in the next 10
years, I wouldn't suggest real estate.
>> No. By the Yeah. And by the way, that
was part of the reason why I decided to
stop coaching, too, because for the
first time in my life, I couldn't
ethically say, "Hey, dude, I believe
this is the best opportunity for you."
>> Exactly.
>> You know, because all the other years
I'd be like, "Bro, you should wholesale.
This is great. flip houses, you know,
buy rentals that like this is like a
perfect
>> Well, and look,
>> if the market shifts tomorrow and and
things tank and drop and then, you know,
things have get back to levels they
should be.
>> Yeah,
>> dude. There's nothing wrong with
changing your mind, be like, "Okay, now
>> it's okay to do this." But in the
current climate and what we all think is
probably going to happen here in the
future, it's like,
>> "Yeah, I freak. I I think people should
go sell life insurance. people like
other
opportunities.
>> And the last thing I'll say, so from
2016 to 2022, I was screaming from the
hilltop, buy real estate, buy real
estate, buy real estate, buy real
estate, start flipping, start
wholesaling, start flipping, start
wholesaling. Right now, people call me a
doomsdayer or you say I'm bitching
because I'm saying the reality of the
situation for the people that are
actually practicing real estate. It is
really hard right now. Interest rates
are really hard to just the laws are get
like they they re they redid the real
estate contracts in California to be
even more stricter. Yeah.
>> Like there, you know, Compass is suing
uh the CRMLS. Like there's so many
things that are happening
>> that are just against real estate right
now. So people could say I'm bitching,
but
>> when things turn around, if people are
still watching this show, I will start
screaming, "Buy real estate. Buy real
estate. Get into real estate. Get into
real." Real estate is cyclical. I've
been doing it 30 years.
>> Exactly. So right now it's it's a hard
season that we're in.
>> No question. Yeah. I would argue of my
30 years, it's the hardest. These next
six months are going to be the hardest.
>> You think it's harder than 2008? But you
just said it was the best time.
>> Dude, you don't understand. So, yeah. 20
2008 wasn't that hard. Once you got past
because short sales and REOs were
coming.
>> Yeah.
>> Right. I didn't buy anything in for nine
months in 2008, but then I started
buying all the way down.
>> Yeah.
>> Because the hardest thing in 2008 was
lending.
>> Yeah. Yeah. You couldn't get loans.
Yeah.
>> The loan.
>> Yeah. And I I was paying 12 points for
hard money.
>> Yeah.
>> 12 points.
>> 12% interest.
>> Oh, 12% points.
>> You pay 12 points.
>> Oh, sorry. 12% and three points.
>> Okay. Got it.
>> 12%. It's a lot.
>> Yeah. My first
>> 65% only.
>> My first ever uh house of I paid four
points 12%.
>> I paid for my first one. Otherwise, I
couldn't get
>> I made money. It was great.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. But so again, I think at the macro
when you're talking about real estate
agents, mortgage brokers, anybody that's
paid on transactions, it is the hardest
time. If you rely on selling a home, it
is the hardest time. But there is a
small set of people who can buy and hold
that can use this pain to buy one great
deal.
>> Do you think in the macro for people
that are buying and holding it's been
the best market in the last 30 years?
>> Yeah. I think the next 90 days will be
the best time. It's the only buyer
market I could think of back to 2015,
2014. It goes back that far.
>> That's crazy.
>> Yeah. Otherwise, it was a sellers market
or flat.
>> Yeah. So, you think it's better? It's a
better time to buy a rental right now
than 20 years ago.
>> It's easier for a guy like me who had a
full-time job that traveled to two
countries a week to pull up the MLS,
have a buy box on that finite of of
criteria and write some disrespectful
offers and get 25 or 30% off. I don't
have a team. I don't have tools. I don't
have apps. I don't have mailers. But you
know what? I know what 9373 or
fourbedroom house, two beds, two bath,
twocar garage, 1,200 to 2,000 ft. I can
know that buy box better than any human
being on the planet.
>> Yeah.
>> And I can write an offer.
>> Yeah. Just a breeze. But we've already
gone through this conversation
[laughter]
>> because if I could look if I had a
choice between buying a rental now and
buying a rental 20 years ago, 20 years
ago obviously is way better. So when you
say the best market, it's just like it
is what it is. But anyway,
>> it's all right. We can disagree. It's
fine. You're young. You'll figure it out
someday.
>> I'll figure it out. I I'll keep trying.
>> I'll keep trying. Anything else you want
to say on this? Again, this is your
house. Did you have a big chair?
>> No, I do need a new chair. This is not
very comfy.
>> No, it's not. But that's how I stay
awake.
>> Okay.
>> If it was too comfy, I'd be falling
asleep. Um,
>> no. As we wrap up here, I'll wrap the
show up. So, yeah, for me, I mean, just
uh for anyone who's uh followed me for
many years, like I said, I I don't want
this to discourage anyone from getting
into real estate or continuing. I think
you can obviously still win. Brian's
still in it. Um, lots of people, Zuber's
still in it. Um, I just think my
opportunities are different and so I'm
going to pursue those and um, I don't
think it's very different than anything
I've ever done the last six years. I'm
always pursuing what I believe is the
best opportunity at that time. And um, I
always ask every quarter I challenge our
students and I I just challenge myself
this. I say every quarter you really
need to do a self-evaluation and say
what is the best use of my time
and every quarter ask yourself that
>> question
>> and truth like objectively look at it
and say with all the new information I
have with all the opportunities I have
in this quarter all the things that I've
seen now happen how should I be
utilizing my time and I was saying it
for like the last year I was like I
honestly honestly think the best use of
my time is playing golf. Like I think
there might like it sounds crazy to say,
but I think if I play golf a lot and I
get a lot of content, I do these like
it's probably the best use of my time.
>> Yeah, you told me that 90 days ago when
I was here to speak.
>> Yeah, you're right.
>> It's proven to be true. And so I kept
playing more golf and doing more things.
And then you know the the new question I
started to ask myself because that's
what I've asked myself for years. That's
probably why I do so many things because
I like am willing to do the next best
use of my time. But then the the thing
that switched it for me was I started to
ask myself what's the best use of their
time.
>> Oh.
>> And so I started thinking
>> well first off who's they
>> employees.
>> See I think most people miss that.
>> Yeah. And so I just started thinking
what's the best use of their time? And
so I thought about my house flipping
team. I thought about my media team. I
thought about you know everyone in
different roles. Javi, you know, and I
even told Javi, this is Real
Entrepreneur Partners. I was like, bro,
you're not going to be able to do the
things that you used to do anymore with
this blowing up, and you're not going to
be able to, you know, uh, do this and do
that and do this. And I go, I think
you're going to be pretty much full-time
doing all this other stuff. And he's
like, ah, whatever. I'm like, no, I
don't think you can see what's And then
sure enough, it's what we thought. And
then
you know like if if if everyone in the
organization's doing the best use of
their time, you would be the most
optimal you could be.
>> Correct.
>> But so many people do things that are
not,
>> you know, the best use. And um or things
that are comfortable that they've been
doing for a long time. And it's like,
bro, why do you still do that? You know,
I'll ask Brian that sometimes on
different things he does. I'm like, why
you still do that? You still send wires?
Like, why can't somebody else do that?
Why do you still like it makes no sense?
You still go to the bank to sign stuff
or the title company? Like what a waste
of time, you know? And it's like, well,
it's just I've always done it. It's
like, yeah, but dude, if you do a 100
deals a year, how many hours are you
wasting going to the title company over
and over again?
>> Like it's just dumb.
>> And
yeah.
So,
>> what are you excited about? What are the
biggest changes in your life, in your
career?
>> I'm a very lucky man, right? I I have
this saying, I think you probably both
heard me say it. Every day is Saturday.
And I truly mean that. And but people
probably don't realize that that
actually means something to me.
>> So for 20 years of my career, I traveled
the world as a commission salesperson,
sales leader. And what that means is
every Sunday I left.
>> So in my family for 20 years, probably
45 weekends a year, I wasn't home on
Sunday.
>> Oh, that's crazy.
>> So I only had a Saturday.
>> But now every day is Saturday day to me,
right? I don't uh I I have enough income
four or five my bills.
>> I travel whenever I want. Yeah.
>> You know, so I I'm just I'm having I'm
enjoying a rough season, 12 or 15 years,
and I get to enjoy it for 50. So,
>> what do you see happening in the economy
now with uh the new Fed?
>> So, I do think the Fed's going to raise
rates. I think they probably do, too,
but I think it's December and March.
It's not not before the election. So, I
think there's two more hikes coming.
It's just later than most people think.
>> Yeah.
>> I think mortgage rates get over 8%.
>> And I think real estate's in a
depression. Oh
>> And we're going to find out
>> by the summer
>> if we're in a nasty recession or if this
AI thing is big enough to kind of pull
us out. And I don't have the answer
today. I don't know.
>> I predict I'm the first I quit real
estate video and there's going to be
many others in the coming year.
[laughter]
>> Once again, legendary. There will be
more.
>> Usually like a year ahead is like then
it's like, oh man, this is bad. And I'm
like, yeah,
>> yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Dang. above 8% interest rates would be
brut for investors already. I think
they're close.
>> Yeah, close. Yeah, they're seven and a
Yeah,
>> for owner.
>> But that is brutal. That's scary to
think of.
>> You know, we were we I mean just we we
were at 8% two years ago, October of
>> 24. For like a little bit.
>> Yeah. For Yeah.
>> Like
>> Yeah, it's the the problem is the
economy now is we're heading into
winter, which is always a slow season.
You talked about Q4 is always slow. Now
with the highest rates, now with the
war, now with diesel. Diesel is a
problem. If you want to talk about the
economy.
>> Yeah. What's going on?
>> Diesel is the number one problem.
>> What is I I'm not familiar with. What's
>> So diesel is what all the trucks run on.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> But we don't we're running out of
refineries and we don't have enough and
it's nine bucks a gallon now. $9.99 or
some crazy California.
>> Gez. So So shipping expenses are crazy.
>> You're shipping lettuce.
>> Yeah.
>> Right. Yeah. You know, whatever. It's
all diesel is one of those things that
just works through the economy. That
could cause inflation to go up. And if
inflation goes up,
>> rates go higher.
>> So we are on this very dangerous
flywheel.
>> What the heck?
>> Where we could be back at 4% inflation.
>> Geez. What do you think is going to
happen uh in the elections and after?
>> The biggest the biggest thing is the
Iran war. We talked about this last
time. He's got to get out of there.
There's just no exit.
>> Why hasn't Why haven't they left? I'm
not following like what's going on.
>> Well, I don't I think you I think we all
fail to realize it's not Trump's
decision.
Even if Trump said, "I'm out of Iran."
You still got Israel lobbing bombs. You
still got the Houthis throwing bombs.
>> It's we once you stir up the hornets
nest, all the hornets are flying around.
And it's a very dangerous environment
right now.
>> Yeah. Don't these guys know you can just
quit.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> Just quit.
>> I don't get it.
>> Call Trump.
>> Call Trump. Just quit, buddy.
>> You can just You can leave. Like
>> Yeah. Can they just leave?
>> No. No. It would be worse
>> cuz they already like un pissed off
people.
>> Yeah. Right. And we're there kind of in
the air like we got three aircraft
carriers there now.
>> Yeah. What's going to happen?
>> Oh, we have three aircraft. Okay. What
what do you think is going to happen in
the elections and then how is that going
to affect the economy?
>> Ah, dude, I don't know this the the I am
very nervous about Democrat socialists
or whatever kind of having their time
more like that guy in New York. More of
his his type.
>> That's dangerous.
>> Yeah. You think you think there's more
coming?
>> That's my biggest fear. Yeah. That's my
biggest
>> I see a lot of like pro like pro-choice
propaganda coming up a lot on social.
>> I haven't seen I mean that's not
>> I've seen that a lot recently. I don't
know why.
>> You must be watching that stuff cuz I
don't get any of that.
>> No, I've been seeing it like a
>> pro-choice like abortion. Yeah. Really?
I
>> I've been seeing that and then even
Mandani was just on Theo Vaughn.
>> Yeah, I saw that.
>> And then Theo Von was kind of like
socialism.
>> What you're saying makes sense. Like
everything makes sense. And I'm like,
bro,
>> it sucks when like these mainstream
people
>> start agreeing with these socialists
because naive people are going to fall
for it. They're like, well, okay,
socialism is not that bad. Like, okay,
the government, they're they can the
>> the beacon of light on.
>> Yeah.
>> The the the full of wisdom.
>> But that's what happens when they start
to see like these one of the podcast on
the
>> Exactly. It's like it's scary where
you're like This is what I am most
concerned about. Yeah. If we,
>> you know, again, real elections usually
go far right or far left. And I'm I have
a fear this one might be far left.
>> You think it's going to go far left?
>> I have that fear. I certainly hope not.
I hope
>> I I'm pretty much guaranteed it will.
>> Really?
>> Yeah.
>> Cuz people are just going to go
anti-Trump.
>> The last two years have been terrible.
It's just it's going to
>> it's going to be orange band. So that
way.
>> Well, no. It's just Yeah. I mean, the
last two years have been terrible for uh
the economy, for inflation, for
affordability, and so everybody's going
to vote the other way. just is what it
is.
>> It happens every time. Yeah.
>> And then
>> the economy is really really bad because
again you some people say it's great.
>> It's a K shape.
>> Yeah. There you go.
>> But I I always put myself in the shoes
of
>> the other 80%.
>> Yeah. Like I'm doing great.
>> Yeah.
>> But like I it's bad.
>> Yeah. Okay.
>> How do we f like how does it get fixed
or what's like where's the hope at in
all this?
Well, first I mean, if you really want
to talk about the big hope, it's really
hard to bet against the US US in general
over a long enough time.
>> Yeah,
>> we've had recessions before. I think we
just need a healthy recession. We
haven't had a real recession since the
GFC. We had a little blip in COVID.
>> Wasn't you just printed money and fixed
it? Yeah,
>> we need a recession to kind of cleanse
out the bad debt.
>> Um, we just need a recession, I think,
unfortunately.
>> Yeah. And that's what I was going to say
too, even about real estate. I've gone
through all the scenarios in my head.
This unaffordability problem only gets
solved one of two ways. Rates can't
solve it because
>> they're not going to go that low.
>> They won't go that low. And even if they
did, prices would go up.
>> So like the gap is between affordability
and what a mortgage cost is still just
the same regardless.
>> Wages would have to increase. That's not
happening. It won't happen fast enough.
Um so it only leads two options. either
prices drop a lot, which could happen,
or technology
is able to build houses for way cheaper.
>> What you brought up. Yeah.
>> And and to me, that's the only option. I
just don't think that prices are going
to drop significantly. Too many people
are sitting on equity. Too many people
are sitting on low rates.
>> So, um yeah, I don't see prices dropping
tremendously. So, it's just going to
stay unaffordable
>> and it won't change till technology. But
politically speaking, nothing can happen
is my point. Do you think AI is going to
help at all?
>> Well, I think technology bubble, but do
you think the AI bubble is going to help
the economy or make it worse?
>> Well, you just called it a bubble.
Generally, bubbles don't help economies,
>> but do you think there's an AI bubble?
>> I think there's an AI debt bubble. I
think AI, again, I'm an old hat, so
again, this is probably unfair, but I
remember when the internet came out and
you had to go to Fry Electronics to buy
a disc to install Netscape Navigator.
You probably don't even know any of
these words.
>> No.
>> Fry Electronics was like Best Buy.
>> I remember there was a Fry up the
street. Okay. So in Netscape Navigator
was like Google.
>> I don't know what that is.
>> It's it's all right. It was Google
before Google.
>> That's how you got on the internet.
>> No.
>> Right. And you had to install software.
You didn't download it on your phone,
right? So you had a disc and you had to
put it in. So that's how old I am.
>> And the internet was a thing. And what
happened is everybody rushed in with
money and people were throwing money,
billions of dollars at DSL lines, which
were fibers that ran underground before
we had satellites.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> And that was the way the internet was
going to get fast was DSL. DSL
>> sounds familiar.
>> Yeah. Same right? Yeah. And guess
what?
>> Data centers, all this.
>> Yeah. Data, same thing as data centers.
It all came in and then it all vanished
because tech changed and it all was bad
debt. Companies blew up left, right, and
center. So I think open AI is going to
go down as the company that loses that
burns the most money ever. I think Open
AI is a is a fraud.
>> But I think AI is real. So if that makes
sense. So AI the tech is real. Open AI
the company I'm not a fan of. Yeah, we
had a big AI guy. Who was that guest
that was just on here that used to work
for Facebook? I forgot his name.
>> Oh, Pmpliano.
>> Pompiano.
>> Oh, yeah. Yeah.
>> Yeah, he was just on here. And I told
him, I was like, I don't get the whole
money and AI thing because it just seems
like everything's going to go to zero
anyway. So, I don't they're going to
compete 90% of it will be competed away
to zero. Then there'll be a top tier,
you know, HIPPA, financial regulation,
all that stuff that'll still be paid,
but 90% of it will be
>> free just like the internet. You guys
pay for this.
>> Exactly. Yeah. I remember back in the
day when you had to pay for minutes and
then like after a certain amount of time
the minutes were like free.
>> A was this and E was this.
>> Yeah.
>> Pri tokens will be
>> Yeah. Exactly.
>> So yeah.
>> Yeah. So I think I think I think the AI
actually the rising rates could blow up
the AI debt bubble.
>> Really?
>> And then then
>> if the AI debt bubble blows up then
we're not even in a K-shaped economy
anymore. We're in a depression.
>> So So play this out. AI dub bubble blows
up.
>> The stock market falls 25%.
>> Yeah. The stock market crash.
>> Wealth effect gets cratered.
>> They can't buy real estate. They can't
buy houses. Their businesses are
crumbled.
>> Yeah. Businesses are created. And then
we're in a recession.
>> Big one.
>> Six months later, the Fed slashes rates
to zero and the party starts again.
>> Okay, that's good. That's good.
You got roughly a year. You
>> guys will hear me on here. Buy real
estate.
>> Roughly a year of pain. But
>> so you think that's what's going to
happen?
>> Do you think that's going to happen?
>> I think we have to have we have to have
a recession. We have to clear out some
of this bad debt.
>> I don't know what happens, but I just
know whatever's currently happening
has to give.
>> Something has to give.
>> One thing will give. Something will
give.
>> You think there's going to be an AI
bust?
>> That's the most likely outcome. But it
could be war. It can be there could be a
lot of things that happen.
>> Yeah,
>> there could be a pandemic.
>> Yeah, I'll put [laughter] that out.
>> I'm just saying like,
>> yeah, Russia just had the plague. Did
you hear about that?
>> Yeah, there's a lot of things that could
happen.
>> Just a plague.
>> All right. All right. Well, Zubs, thanks
for taking the reigns on this episode.
You did a great job as the first ever um
guest host of the show. Great job. Um
next time maybe you'll you'll replace
Brian. Who knows?
>> Nobody can replace Brian.
>> Yeah, it's true, too. But [laughter] um
anyways, guys, uh make sure you
subscribe to this. Hopefully this clears
things up and we'll catch you on the
next one. base.
