Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out.
>> The Joe Rogan Experience.
>> TRAIN BY DAY. JOE ROGAN PODCAST BY
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>> What's happening,
>> my friend? Good to be back, bro.
>> Dustin Pouet, the light heavyweight.
>> It's thick boy summer.
>> You're looking healthy, son.
>> Yeah, like 190, man.
>> You look good, man.
>> I feel good, dude. It feels good to eat
and not count carbohydrates and
calories.
>> Yeah, we were talking about that. we
like still like a little part of you is
like looks at meals and goes uh
>> well I mean for the last 20 years I've
been macro and you know I knew I had a
fight coming up even if I didn't have a
fight I had to be in striking range from
155 right
>> so I was always looking at the back of
every label being real cautious what I
eat it's like ingrained in my daughter
now when we go to Whole Foods she'll
grab something off the counter and say
dad it only has three ingredients like
she knows what's up
>> well it's good to think that way anyway
>> for sure
>> especially with the ingredients
>> yeah she that's the first thing she goes
too. Like if she wants some chips, it
only has five ingredients. That's like a
thing
>> for her when we're shopping.
>> Yeah. Well, that's smart, man. That's
cool. You're raising them, right?
>> I'm trying to, bro. I'm trying to put
the stuff I learned in fighting, you
know, all the years
>> to good use.
>> It's uh it is kind of crazy. I think
it's the worst thing about fighting is
the weight cutting.
>> Can you imagine if everybody just First
of all, I tell me if you agree, but I
think the UFC needs way more weight cut.
>> I do too. Way more. I do too
because the gaps are so big. I mean,
just if you look at boxing compared to
mixed martial arts, the the the jumps in
weight are so big from each weight
class, but also all the shows they're
putting on, they'd have more titles,
more belts, more big fights. But also,
man, with that, there's going to be a
lot of people trying to cut a little bit
extra, trying to be double champ in
every weight class. I think it does
cause more confusion.
>> Yeah, but that's better than the extreme
weight cuts. The extreme weight cuts are
ter. You saw that dude a few um like I
guess it was about three events ago who
face planted and got removed off the
card. Yeah,
>> that is crazy. You're getting someone to
the brink of death 24 hours before they
have an MMA fight, which is the most
>> if not the most dangerous sport, one of
the most dangerous sports in the world.
And you're doing something to your body
to extremely weaken it 24 hours before
you fight. It's bananas.
>> Dude, I did it so many times. You preach
it to the choir. I know, but
>> there's been so many times I felt like
that, like stand up too quick after a
weight cut and I'm like, you know, I
might go down.
>> Oh, dude. I I mean, I can only imagine
when you see someone like Pereira that's
cutting like 25 lbs and more when he was
185.
>> I mean, that guy was fighting inside the
octagon at 225
and weighing in at 185 24 hours before,
right?
>> That's crazy.
>> And even when he's big, he's lean, you
know? It's not like he's fluffy. Well,
they say that when you're muscular, it's
easier to cut weight. It's water.
>> Yeah. Which is counterintuitive. You see
a fat guy like, "Oh, that guy can cut
weight." But you really can't cuz you
can't depen your fat,
>> right? Not in a training camp's time, 8
weeks, 10 weeks, you can't lose like 30
pounds of fat. But
>> I don't think I said like it was a real
word.
>> You can dehydrate yourself.
>> I don't think it is a word. Depish.
>> Well, if you can replenish,
>> right? But no one says depenish. Depish.
>> No, you say deplete. But I just threw it
out there like it was real.
>> I don't think is a word.
>> Is that a word?
>> Yeah,
>> it is.
>> I don't think I've ever used it that
way.
>> Oh, okay.
>> Nice, man.
>> Nice. I got lucky. That was just luck.
Um, but I talked to Hunter about it,
Hunter Campbell, and we're we're trying
to figure out a way um without It has to
be more weight classes. I mean,
California instituted a bunch of
different weight classes. I think um I
think they were doing it every 10
pounds.
>> I think California also did like a
percentage of your your body weight like
I don't know what was it 15 20% you
couldn't dehydrate more than that.
>> That guy Andy Foster is on the ball
>> and I think that's good you know.
>> Yeah.
>> 20% or or whatever some kind of rule
where guys aren't cutting 50 lb 40%.
>> Still crazy. Yeah. It's still crazy.
>> I mean if you're a lot of weight.
>> Yeah you're right. 200 lb 40 lb. I mean
>> it's a lot of weight. Well, that's
another thing that freaks boxers out
when I tell them that there's a weight
limit at heavyweight
>> 265.
>> That doesn't make any sense. I go, I
agree.
>> Why is there a weight limit for
heavyweight? That's crazy,
>> dude. That that gap too, like 205,
anything over that, you can be 210 to
265. That's crazy.
>> Crazy. a 50 pound gap that you you know
but
>> well heavyweight in boxing like look
Mike Tyson when he was in his prime was
only like 220 215 220 you know that's
where he when he was dominating that's
where he kind of fell in that weight
limit
>> I wouldn't I think it would be a good
idea anything past like 230 235 super
heavyweight yeah you know
>> well the difference in boxing though is
the grappling the grappling in MMA the
gap if a guy gets on top of you is
immense if you got a like in Ghana when
he was in his prime was weighing over
like 300 lb and then cutting down to
265. He was a 300 lb natural.
>> He's a guy who's
>> like a knockdown power for sure, but
grappling like if you get a big guy
who's 265 and knows how to grapple very
well, wrestled his whole life, they get
in side control or half guard, you're
not getting up. That's the end of the
round.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> Also, if they did do a super heavy, the
fights might be either awesome or
completely suck. Well, I think it should
be heavyweight should be unlimited and
then you'll find out. Yeah, because like
Kane Velasquez, no one's holding that
dude down in his prime. Even when he was
240, when he was 240 and he fought
Lesnar, Lesnar was gigantic, but it
didn't matter because the cardio that
Kane had and the speed and his technique
sort of it it
>> he was ahead of his time, man. He was
ahead of time. He was like a hybrid. Can
do everything,
>> great cardio, good athlete before
>> MMA got to where it's at now.
>> Yeah. The one fight that I always say
that we missed is Kane and Fedor in
their primes because they were both in
their prime at the same time and they
never made that happen.
>> When UFC absorbed the the Pride roster
and stuff, I was crazy. It's crazy that
Fedor never fought in the UFC at all,
man.
>> Well, it was they tried. The UFC tried,
but Fedor's management were a bunch of
very dangerous dudes.
>> Yeah, you don't mess around with those
guys.
>> [ __ ] Yeah, man. There was like tense
negotiations and they wanted a
percentage of the promotion. They wanted
a lot more than just a big purse.
>> Yeah, UFC is not playing that game.
>> No, they were like, "Look, we'll give
you, you know, a very healthy purse.
We'll bring Fedor over here." But the
problem was when they purchased Pride,
they thought they were getting
everyone's contracts, but the contracts
were all [ __ ]
>> Well, some guys came over on crazy crazy
money contracts, you know. I think Dan
Henderson might have been one.
>> I was a young fighter one time and I was
making this might have been
2013 or something, 2014, I don't know.
And um they came to give me my check.
This is back in the day before they
wired. They used to give us checks on
fight night. And uh they were going
through the checks and I saw Dan's and I
saw the number and I couldn't believe
it. This is before like people posting
online fighter pay and all that and I
saw the numbers he was making. I was
like no way guy's rich.
>> Does it make you angry?
>> No. No. Because the future myself
looking back or looking forward when
guys are going to be fighting for belts
and stuff, the money they're going to
make in five years, I'm gonna be I'mma
be that guy like damn, you know, I got
out too early or you know how it is. The
next generation always gets more, right?
>> Mike Brown tells me that all the time.
Do you I was fighting for the belt in WC
defending it making this. You guys on
the prelims are making more than I was
making, you know.
>> Yeah, there's a weird
that sort of discussion about fighter
pay. You know, I've always been of the
opinion that fighters should be making
more money, period. Because like the
same way I feel about like the way I run
my comedy club, the comedians make 80%
of the money. Cuz I feel like that's
who's you're paying to see. You're
paying to see them. We make plenty of
money like with drinks and 20% of the
ticket sale. It's like it's enough.
>> Like it should be what if we had a
comedy club and there's no comedians, no
one's coming, right? No one's gonna pay
just to sit there and buy drinks. Like
the whole idea is they're paying to see
someone's work. If you fight, that's
what people are paying to see. They're
paying to see fighters. Without the
fighters, there's no show. Without the
comedians, there's no show. I
understand. But I think the big thing
with the discussion of fighter pay is is
the percentages. When you look at other
major major organizations like NFL, NBA,
the percentages are so so different.
>> Yeah. It's not good.
>> But dude, at the end of the day, I'm all
for fighter pay, too. I've been fighting
my whole life. But you signed the
contract. You agree this is how business
is done. Push for try to get more of
what you're worth. You know, you can't
sign a contract and complain,
>> right? That's true, too. But also, it's
like the reality of MMA is if you're not
in the UFC, people are not paying
attention. That's unfortunate, but it's
reality.
>> Yeah. You know, and I think there's some
really good fighters that fight in the
PFL and really good fighters that fight
in one,
>> but they don't, no one knows who they
are other than the hardcore dudes,
>> right?
>> That's
>> Yeah, I got a buddy Johnny Elyn who was
the Bellator champion.
>> I've been training with him since he
started MMA when he got out of college
wrestling and stuff like right now. He
can go to the UFC and give the top five
guys a run for their money. No doubt in
my mind. He's only getting better.
>> Yeah.
>> Just because you fight in the UFC,
that's a great organization to fight
for. the biggest, the most known
worldwide, but dude, there's great
fighters everywhere. You know, like on
on the mats at American Top Team,
there's a dozen guys you never heard of
that can make a run in the UFC right
now.
>> That's what I heard is a nightmare about
training at American Top Team
>> cuz it's a revolving door, man. There's
like a hundred professional fighters on
the mats at all times.
>> Yeah.
>> Different camps. They have dorms. So,
guys from Russia, guys from all over the
world are just in. You never know who's
going to be there. And it's it's tough
rounds. You know, every practice is
tough. Well, not only that, but I've
heard there's like guys coming in from
Russia and they'll throw oblique kicks
at your knees and you're like, "Hey,
man. Like, what are we doing here? We're
getting ready for fights. We're not in a
fight."
>> Right. Yeah. Yeah.
>> Like some of these guys are trying to
make their name off of a name guy. And
so, you have to be very selective in who
you spar with.
>> For sure. And that's any not just
American Top Team, especially guys who
are established. Like, if I go to any
gym here in Austin and it's
>> open mat or something, I have a target
on my back.
>> Of course,
>> you know, that's everywhere.
>> Of course. But those guys, man, like at
a big gym like America Top Team with the
knowledge and the good coaches, those
guys get weeded out.
>> You know, you you won't stay there long
if you're doing that stuff.
>> The problem is if you're one of the guys
that has to weed him out, like you find
out early on this dude's, you know,
throwing wheel kicks
>> full blast
>> and it happens all the time.
>> Oh yeah. Well, just, you know, makes
sense. I mean, you're from Dagistan or
Cheschna or whatever, you come to
America, it's like this is your big
chance.
>> And I do like to train hard to prepare
for a fight. You got to fight, but you
know, you got to take care of each
other. We're professionals. We're
feeding our family with this.
>> Yeah.
>> And injury can ruin everything.
>> Well, there's so many fighters that get
concussions in training and then, you
know, they get chinny when they get into
the fight. It happens all the time.
>> Yeah.
>> Especially the early days. There was a
lot of guys who got hit.
>> Me. Yeah. Like the early days, we didn't
really have classes that were organized,
man. It was just sparring and choking
each other out and with 4 oz glove
sparring. Like we didn't know. We didn't
know.
>> Ain't that crazy?
>> Like 2006, dude. We used to beat each
other up every day. That was MMA
training.
>> And then it wasn't these super gyms
where everything was under one roof. I
would drive to a boxing gym, drive
another 45 minutes to a jiu-jitsu gym,
you know, it was put everything together
on fight night, but you would train
everywhere else because there wasn't
mixed martial arts gyms back then
really. I would drive to a kickboxing
gym, boxing gym, wrestling, jiu-jitsu.
It was all separate. Well, also you were
in a place that didn't have like a high
volume of MMA fighters in your state,
>> right?
Back then like Rich Clemeni, Melvin
Galard were the big guys from Louisiana,
you know,
>> right?
>> Then Tim Crater came got
>> Crazy Tim.
>> Crazy Tim got on the Ultimate Fighter
and then I went to his gym once he got
out of the TV show and I me and him
trained for years and years. He still
has a gym in Lafayette, Louisiana.
>> I love Tim. I' I've known Tim since I've
I first worked out with him in like 98
at Machado.
>> Well, he was in maybe the Navy. So, he
was in California station there and I
think that's when he started jiu-jitsu.
He was Louisiana's first black belt.
>> Oh, wow.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. I knew him from that and then he
was fighting and he was fighting in the
UFC.
>> And he was always around the MMA scene.
Him and Eve Edwards were were good
friends. They opened the gym maybe in
Houston or something. He was cornering
Eve and Pride and then I met Eve through
Tim. And it's just it's a big family,
man.
>> Eve is a guy that I always say there was
a time where he was the best 155 pounder
on earth.
>> When he beat Josh Thompson, yes, he's
the uncrowned champion.
>> He should have been the uncrowned
champion.
>> There wasn't a belt.
>> I know. Isn't that nuts? Isn't that
nuts? That's so hard for people to
understand like how crazy it is.
>> Like being through the lineage of Thug
Jitsu, man. It sucks to say like that he
can't say he was a champion, but but I
know he was.
>> He was.
>> He was. He was the best.
>> He was the best. At one point in time,
he was the best. I he he lived out here
before he moved to LA. So before I moved
to South Florida to train at American
Top Team, I used to drive six hours here
and stay with Eve. He always had
wrestlers down here. This is like
beginning of my WEC days.
>> I would drive down here and train with
Eve, man. He's
>> he was another guy who was ahead back in
the day
>> cuz he comes from NHB, like hook and
shoot,
>> the crazy days, you know?
>> Yes.
>> And he was doing it all. Good jiu-jitsu,
good kickboxing. He fell in love with
wrestling. I was such a big fan of Eve,
man.
>> He He invented some moves, too. You
remember that one thing that he would do
where guys were on a single and he hit a
dude with a flying knee, a jumping knee?
>> That was uh Dude, I'm I'm an MMA
historian, bro. That was Elite XC, I
believe. Maybe.
>> Was it?
>> Um, and you know that was Edson Berto,
>> was it?
>> I think Andre Berto's brother, the
boxer.
>> Oh, wow.
>> Yeah.
>> Wow. But that
>> he had a single leg. He was hopping and
then
>> jumped up and kneed out cold.
>> Yeah, it was crazy. It is a lead. Look
at you, bro. I mean,
>> pray that again. Look at this. This move
is brilliant. That's brilliant.
>> That's Edson Berto.
>> And I believe Andre and Edson's dad was
a mixed martial artist.
>> Oh, wow. That's such a slick move.
>> Yeah, he's so crafty, man.
>> Oh, yeah. Well, that head kick that he
landed on Josh Thompson in the middle of
that wild crazy scramble jumping
roundhouse kick to the head, dude. And
they still play it. Every opener of the
UFC, they still play it as they should.
I mean, it was incredible.
>> Absolutely. Yeah. I got to You got to
give credit to Eve. He's He was one of
the real pioneers
>> for sure.
>> And way before this was cool. Way
before.
>> Yeah. But to be stuck at like 155, like
that was his weight class. And then
there's no title.
>> Yeah. They were the two best guys in the
world at that time. Him and Josh
Thompson.
>> Yeah. Josh Thompson's another one.
Doesn't get the credit he deserves.
That's it. Boom. Like what a slick move,
man. But that was Eve. Very creative,
you know.
>> Yeah, man. Josh Thompson like peak Josh
Thompson for me.
>> What was it? Strike Force when him and
uh Gilbert Melendez maybe were going
back and forth. Didn't they have like
>> Oh my goodness. Yeah,
>> they might have had a trilogy. It might
have been two two or three fights, but
every fight was amazing.
>> Gilbert Melendez. Another guy doesn't
get the credit he deserves.
>> Dude, legend.
>> Legend, man.
>> Legend. All those guys, they they were
the groundbreakers. You know, a lot of
these young kids coming up, you bring up
Gilbert Melendez, they're like, who?
Like, bro, you need to know your
history. You need to know how this thing
got started.
>> Even more newer stuff, go watch him and
uh Diego Sanchez, slug it out.
>> Diego Sanchez is another guy that I say
is a tweener, right? Cuz
>> welterweight.
>> Yeah. I mean, he really wasn't really a
welterweight and he, you know, and
lightweight. I mean, he tried to get
down to 45 for a while, but that was
just brutal. He was killing himself
getting down to 45. I remember seeing
him making weight for 45. I'm like, "Oh,
this ain't good.
>> This ain't going to last long."
>> No.
>> Yeah.
>> But if like there was a 165 lb weight
class, Diego Sanchez might have been the
champion of the world.
>> Right. Honestly, man, like when I was
competing, if they had a 65, I might
have entertained it. 70 is just too big
of a gap cuz I trained with 70s in the
UFC and I know they're 200 something
pounds
>> and my heaviest I was like 182, 183
maybe.
>> They're just too big, man. Well, you got
guys like Rumble Johnson when Rumble was
alive.
>> Yeah.
>> Rumble got up to 230 lbs in between.
>> No, he was huge, man. Huge.
>> Huge. I can't believe he made 170.
>> He was He was living in South Florida,
so I see him every now and then. He was
huge.
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>> He was the ultimate like weight cutter.
Like he cut more weight than anybody.
>> When he was fighting at 170, it was
bananas. Like how are you doing this? I
remember running into him at a hotel. I
was like, "Bro, how big are you?" And he
was laughing. He's like, "I'm 230 right
now."
>> And muscle
>> jackus like a heavyweight. And he went
up to heavywe
>> which is crazy. He was a legit
heavyweight.
>> Yeah,
>> dude. Andre is still fighting.
>> I know. And winning
>> the bare knuckle champion.
>> Winning. He's the bare knuckle champion.
Like, how durable is that [ __ ]
>> For the years and the miles that that
guy has, I I have to say like taking
shots, receiving damage, he I don't know
if he takes it like he obviously he
doesn't take it like he used to, but his
mobility and his movement for all the
wars he's had in the years he's been
fighting. When I watch him in the gym,
dude, he's light on his feet, flexible.
>> Yeah.
>> He moves so well
>> and enthusiasm. Still has enthusiasm for
the game. Yeah. which is crazy.
>> He He loves it.
>> He clearly loves it. I mean, he was
what? UFC heavyweight champion in 2005.
>> Yeah.
>> Was it like 2005?
>> 2005 or 2006? I think he beat Tim Tim
Sylvia, maybe
>> when he was the champ. First of all,
that [ __ ] had a piston for a
right hand. I remember when he KO'ed
Paulo. Oh my god.
>> That's a Texas guy.
>> Paul Bentello. Another another dude. I
believe he's from uh Galveastston area
or Corpus Christi or something.
>> He's from Texas.
>> Well, if you think Arloski from 2005 and
he was a top 10 heavyweight as recently
as like 2023.
>> Well, when he came back to the UFC after
that long gap, he went on a streak. He
had a bunch of great fight. I think he
knocked out Travis Brown.
>> Beat Travis Brown, which is crazy.
>> Did he fight Bigfoot? did him and
Bigfoot 51 is when he won
>> 2005. February 5th, 2005. That is
bananas, man. That really is bananas,
>> man. Back in the day, uh Tim Sylvia used
to train at AT when I first got there.
He was the most uncoordinated,
unathletic guy. I couldn't believe he
was a UFC champion, man.
>> I know. He was like
>> goofy.
>> Pigeon toaded,
>> but down to fight.
>> Oh, down to fight.
>> Down to fight. Yeah, for sure. Pigeon
toad. His knees were
>> weird. Yeah.
>> Yeah. They went in like I don't I tried
to talk to a trainer about that. He goes
that's learned like you can correct
that. I was like are you the knee?
>> Yeah.
>> The knees bowed in like that was he said
that's a learn you could you could
correct that. I was like really how do
you what?
>> I never heard of that.
>> Uh yeah I didn't understand how you
>> seems like something they would do maybe
when you're born surgery like reposition
the bones or something. No.
>> Well I don't know if it is. I don't
know. I mean, I I'd have to I don't want
to speak out of turn. I I I'd have to
bring in that guy and have him explain
to me how you could correct that.
>> But he's like, "That's something that
could be corrected." That's like learned
behavior.
>> It's just from being so big.
>> But dude, watching him with his toes
pointed out doing the ladder drills and
stuff, you know, the the ladders on the
m in and out. Like it was so crazy.
>> Big guys have their toes pointed out
like that. Like Jelly Roll went from 500
lb and he's down to the he's in the low
200s now, which is crazy. I saw pictures
of him looks completely different.
>> Bro, he's lost like 300 lbs and he did
it the right way. No ompic just like
diet, exercise, runs all the time, but
he has a problem when he walks. His toes
are pointed out and he's trying to
correct it. He's trying to be aware of
it.
>> Yeah.
>> When he runs, he runs the right way.
Like feet feet pointed forward.
>> You see it too on the on the bigger guys
shoes. The corners of their shoes are
always flat. Like flat tires on the
outside. They just walk that way, man.
Well, you got to think you have so much
weight, you gotta you gota kind of
stretch out to kind of balance yourself.
>> Yeah.
>> But I always point to Tim Sylvia when he
knocked out Rico Rico Rodriguez. That
>> Oh,
>> that Tim Sylvia was a beast, dude. That
was back when all the Mexican
supplements were allowed.
>> There was a lot of dudes who are very
juicy.
>> Oh, yeah.
>> And Tim had giant traps and huge [ __ ]
shoulders. And
>> I remember he struggled to get down to
265 for that fight.
>> Yeah. Back in the day with the juice was
just free flowing, man. I just worked um
>> the UFC desk with Bisping in Vegas when
Max and Charles fought
>> and we started talking about the same
thing we're talking about now. And he
was like, "Oh, I fought VTO. I fought
them all in the height of TRT." Right.
>> You know, he's fought a bunch of guys.
>> Legal juice which was bananas.
>> I mean, loud. Oh, yeah. That was the
juiciest fight of all time. Alistister
versus uh versus Brock was the juiciest
fight of all time.
>> Yeah. I recently watched the uh Mark
Hunt documentary and um he's trying to
like push back and do a lawsuit against
the UFC for all the juicing and stuff,
but I mean it's such a
>> Yeah, that's a tough that's a tough road
because how much can the UFC do?
>> And it's on the athletic commission as
well, right? Wouldn't the lawsuit be
against the state, not the UFC? I think
his position is that the UFC knew that.
Um,
>> but how would they know
>> that Brock was juicing? I don't know.
>> This is before random drug test, I
believe.
>> Yes, it was before.
>> So, that would I feel like that would
fall on the state athletic commission.
>> Maybe it wasn't before cuz he did get
popped,
>> you know, but
>> it wasn't random. They weren't show up
in camp.
>> No, no, that back in the day you would
get tested on fight night, right? You
know, they wouldn't knock at your door.
Well, it was super clear that Brock was
doing something. It was super clear.
Like he was like in his late 30s.
>> He's built like a [ __ ] like the side
of a barn.
>> I mean, there's a bunch of guys back
then.
>> Yeah. Bunch of guys.
>> Yeah.
>> But it wasn't frown. It was okay.
Everybody was doing it.
>> Well, it wasn't. It wasn't, right? Cuz
it was illegal, but it it was like when
you have fight day drug tests, that's an
intelligence test. That's all that is.
Right? That's whether or not you have
good people in your corner and whether
or not you have a a chemist.
>> It's going to take this amount of weeks
to get out or this many days to get out
of your system.
>> Well, there are certain camps that would
employ scientists and these scientists,
>> the crooks are always going to be ahead.
You know,
>> they're always going to be coming up
with something new, trying to stay ahead
of the curve and get away with stuff.
And I still think they're probably doing
it, man.
>> Yeah. There's probably something that we
don't know right now and it's going to
come out in the future. That's why they
hold on to the drug tests for a
prolonged period of time.
>> Yeah. They ask you your consent. You
have to do an extra signature if you let
them test it or use it for
>> What happens if you say no?
>> I I don't know. I never said no. I
always give it to him.
>> Well, it's good for you because you're
clean.
>> Yeah. I competed my whole career clean,
man. Nothing. Nothing. I was even scared
of certain creatine. Like I got the
trusted by sport on everything because I
was so scared to be one of those guys
cuz every time I see it tainted
supplement. Yeah, sure buddy. But, you
know, sure, a tainted supplement, but it
could be, you know, I don't want to be
one of those guys.
>> Well, for sure there are tainted
supplements. That's a real thing. And,
you know, I know that for a fact because
as one of the owners of On It when we
were doing um when we're uh doing third
party testing of some of our
supplements, we would find stuff in
there that's not supposed to be in
there. And so, we'd have to contact the
distributor, the manufacturer, and the
people that like mixed our stuff. So the
way like on it would work is like Alpha
Brain has a bunch of different
ingredients that enhance your, you know,
your mental focus and clarity. And we
would give them the very specific
numbers of what's supposed to be in each
batch. And then we would third party
test. We find a bunch of [ __ ] in there
that's not supposed to be in there. And
it's because, you know, if you're
getting it done overseas, they have
these vats where they mix all the stuff
in and they don't even clean the vats,
man. They dump it out and then they dump
the new stuff in there without cleaning
it.
>> There's residue in there. And then also
the level of drug testing, how high
these things can sense anything,
>> right?
>> Even if there's a tiny bit, they'll find
it,
>> right? With Jon Jones, right? It was
picoggrams. We got introduced to the
term pogos. Like a grain of salt in the
swimming pool, they can find they're
saying. So the testing is legit. And I'm
glad, you know, we're fighting. We're
kneing each other in the in the face. If
we were running track or something, I
>> Exactly.
>> But we're fighting. You can get
seriously injured, man. So, I've always
been against doping,
>> but I'm retired now. Joe,
>> I'm retired now.
>> Now you can get to group.
>> Yeah, I love when guys get Well, Cowboy
got real jacked, too, afterwards. But
then he talked about coming back and
then he got off of everything.
>> That's the thing, though. Like always
back in the day, all the TRT guys, like
if you change your body's natural
production of testosterone with
exogenous testosterone,
>> you have to be on it for the rest of
your life. Well, you don't have to
because there's things called hCG and
HCG and clomophene can restart your
body's production of testosterone.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Definitely
>> because I know your testicles will stop
producing once you introduce foreign
testosterone, right?
>> Well, for a for a period of time,
especially when you're a young man, you
can restart it. But, you know, my
production, I've been on TRT since I was
like late 30s. Like, it's not coming
back.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> I'm shooting blanks. Pow. But uh
>> you're good.
>> But two of my daughters were born while
I was on TRT. So it does work. I just
had a limited amount. I had soldiers.
Just one [ __ ] special ops guy at the
front.
>> Only one was marching.
>> But he got through.
>> Black Ops.
>> Yeah. So if you think about like all of
the time where people were allowed to
dope, it is a giant percentage of the
history of MMA. Like Pride,
>> the further you go back, For sure.
>> For sure. for sure.
>> Pride. It was juiciest as juice. Like
that like Enson Inu when he was on the
podcast told me that in the contract it
said in all capital letters, "We do not
test for steroids."
>> We aren't looking. I've heard I've heard
other people say that as well. We aren't
looking.
>> Thumbs up, green light. Let's go.
>> Shoot up the juice. Come fight. We'll
pay you cash. Get out of here.
>> They wanted you to juice. They wanted
you to fight better, which is like
>> it becomes a spectacle, but man, people
can get seriously injured. You can
especially But then also the thing is
like does it make you more durable?
>> Does it prevent you?
>> Does I think it does man because
>> just one that right off the top of my
head when Bigfoot Silva was TRT or
whatever he was on he was so durable.
>> So durable.
>> Him and Mark Hunt had those crazy fights
but when he got off he started getting
knocked out
>> right
>> you know.
>> But there's also the switch. There's
something that happens when you've had a
certain amount of concussions where
that's
>> another another guy that comes to mind.
Remember Eric Silva? Yeah,
>> welterweight was huge, dude. Whenever
they started doing the USADA stuff, he
was getting knocked out and just wasn't
himself.
>> He didn't look the same. He melted.
>> I wonder what the like medical reason
for that is, but I I think it has to
something to do with confidence and like
self-belief with the testosterone. They
just I think that's a big part of it.
>> It's definitely a part of it, but also
there's a part of it your vitality.
You're just more durable. I mean, when
you're jacked up on testosterone, you're
just more [ __ ] durable. Yeah.
Everything about you is more ador
Alistar is a great example of that.
>> Like animal mode, man. You just
>> Yeah, man. Dude, I I think Alistister
Overim when he was Uber, I think that is
the best argument for TRT ever.
>> Looked like a superhero,
>> bro. When he was in K1 and he was
shelling up. How you getting through
that? How you getting through that
shell?
>> Remember how small he was though back in
K1? He was like a 205 or
>> 181. Pride. Pride.
>> Pride when he was fighting at light
heavy when Chuck knocked him out.
Liddell knocked him out when he was a
legit light heavyweight and he was
skinny.
>> Yeah.
>> And
>> young and skinny.
>> He just decided time to get big.
>> Yeah. Look at him back then when he
fought Shogun.
>> Still pretty jacked though.
>> Oh yeah, man. He was shredded.
>> He was shredded. But he was a shredded
light heavyweight, you know. I think
he's a vegan now.
>> I look at that.
>> Come on, son. Come on, son.
>> That's a ribe eyes. That ain't vegan
right there.
>> Go back to that other one. That's what
I'm talking about. I mean, that's what a
UFC heavyweight champion's supposed to
look like. Come on, son.
>> I mean,
>> put that put that on the White House
card.
>> Not just that, but highly skilled
>> for sure.
>> He wasn't just jacked. He was highly I
mean, there's a K1 Grand Prix champion.
I mean, that dude was the cream of the
crop at kickboxing.
He was the cream of the crop in MMA and
he even won the Abu Dhabi European
trials as a pure grappler.
>> Yeah. People don't know about that about
Alist A Alistar. His grappling is is
high level.
>> Very He had one of the best guillotines
in the game. Like Alistar in his prime
when when he went over and he fought uh
Brett Cooper over in U was it Bert
Cooper? Who do who? No. Who do you
[ __ ] fight in Strike Force?
>> Like Brett Rogers.
>> Brett Rogers. That's right. Sorry. I'm
thinking of the heavyweight boxer Bert
Cooper. Bert Cooper
>> who fought uh he had some crazy wars
with um
>> with uh Evander Evander Holyfield.
>> I think Evander's down in South Florida
too now.
>> I don't remember Cooper.
>> He was a really he was a he was a tank.
He was a tank. He was a super jack guy.
But Brett Rogers when he fought Alistar
Alistar like immediately hit him with a
low kick and you could tell he was like
what is this?
>> Yeah. like it was a different kind of
low kick because you're dealing with the
tree trunks of Alistar with perfect
technique and that guy was as good a
kickboxer as has ever entered into MMA.
And when he was saucy, he was a problem.
Yeah,
>> he was a real [ __ ] problem.
>> Speaking of kickboxers from that era
coming to MMA, dude, didn't Gokan Saki
come over?
>> Oh, yeah. I
>> I thought he was going to do, you know,
so much better, but he's he was older.
He was older and he was at a time where
it's like, you know, he had had so many
fights in K1,
>> you know, he had he had so many wars and
he fought Khalil when you know, Khalil's
fast as [ __ ]
>> And I mean, good kickboxing.
>> Real good kickboxing.
>> Tie style.
>> Khaled him in the first round and
knocked him out.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. Which was a big fight for Khalil
because, you know, Gokan was the Turkish
Tyson was coming over here. you know,
was one of those guys like Merkel Crocop
was like an elite kickboxer who's
entering into MMA and everybody always
gets excited about that. Obviously,
Pereira is the best example of that.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> But he was a guy I knew. I told
everybody I was like, "That guy is going
to be a nightmare for everybody because
there's something about him, man. I
don't know what the hell is going on
with his bone structure, his DNA, and
his intelligence. Like, he figured [ __ ]
out that other people didn't. Like the
way he threw that low kick. Like the way
he throws that calf kick with zero tell,
no turning of the hips. Like he [ __ ] up
guys calves better than anybody on the
planet.
>> We had like a huge rush of the calf
kick. I saw it for like a year and a
half, two years. Everybody was doing it.
Now it's kind of fading away. I've
noticed that
>> it is, but not with him. It's not with
elite guys. Guys that are really good at
it.
>> It does so much damage, man. So quickly
>> crazy.
>> And it's so much It's less commitment.
So you're not giving you don't have to
turn your hips over as much. So
wrestlers aren't grabbing singles as
easy.
>> Well, I remember your fight with Jim
Miller.
>> It's just Oh, dude. tore me up.
>> Yeah, that was that was one of the first
examples of calf kicks being really
[ __ ] dangerous.
>> And I've never felt it before. And it
and I'm a southpaw, so to land good calf
kicks, you'd have to fight another
southpaw, right? And that doesn't happen
too often, especially with one who's
throwing those.
>> So, I didn't know what kind of black
magic he was doing, bro. I was like, I
got a I got a flat tire. What is going
on? What is this?
>> I know. You know,
>> isn't it crazy that it took that long
for people to figure that out?
Ben Henderson was a guy doing it early,
>> but it wasn't that effective for some
reason. He was doing it, but it wasn't
having the devastating damage.
>> I'm trying to think of who's the first
guy to really Edson Barbosa would do it
every now and then.
>> Mhm.
>> Trying to think of somebody who really
brought it over,
>> bro. It's made its way into kickboxing
now.
>> It's cuz they were saying like the Muay
Thai guys are not susceptible to calf
kicks and everybody was saying that. I
was like that doesn't make a lot of
sense to me.
>> They are light on their front foot. So
that front foot is
>> they are but there's times where they
have to plant like when they're throwing
a right kick.
>> There's a guy named Yuki Yoza Yuki Yoza
who fights for one. He's a Kilkushin guy
and he is [ __ ] everybody up with calf
kicks.
>> Yeah,
>> he he fights like high guard tight
inside and again no pivot of the hips.
He's essentially throwing his calf kick
almost like he's kicking a soccer ball
straight up the middle.
>> That's that's the way I like to do it as
well. M
>> just clip the top of the calf. It's no
commitment. You don't have to pivot your
hips or plant to turn. You can just snap
it out like a jab.
>> Yeah. Well, a great example of the
changing of technique was you in that
Connor fight.
>> Yeah. Calf over and over and over.
>> And it was also southpaw versus
southpaw.
>> Same thing. You just destroyed that
calf. And you could tell he didn't know
what to do because as good as he was and
as many fights as he had two division
world champion, he hadn't been calf
kick, right?
>> Which is a crazy transition when you see
like the history of the sport. That is
one of the clear different the like the
the differentiation. That's another word
that's fake. That's the clear line in
the sand where the techniques changed.
>> Yeah. And it's one of those things like
before it happened to me, I saw it and I
was like, "Ah, it might be
uncomfortable." And but until it
happens, then you have a different
respect for it. So Connor probably
learned a lot that fight, man. Like this
is for real. Calfcakes are for real.
>> Well, it's [ __ ] that it's just one
shot. That's what's crazy about it. Cuz
a thigh kick, like you can get a hard
thigh kick and your leg goes dead for a
couple seconds, but it comes back.
>> Yeah.
>> Calves don't really come back that
quick.
>> They explained it to me at the hospital
after the Jim Miller thing. Apparently,
your calf doesn't have the chambers for
the fluid to drain. So, that's why it
gets compartment.
>> Oh, compartment.
>> That's why it's so painful cuz it it
can't like go out through the swelling
can't go out through your whole leg. So,
it sits in one pocket and fills up and
it's just uncomfortable. Can stop
nerves. And
>> did you ever see what happened to Austin
Hubard?
>> Dude, that's what they wanted to do
after the Jim Miller fight. They wanted
to cut me at the uh like no way.
>> No way.
>> Filet you to release the pressure. Well,
another guy, Uriah Faber, when he fought
Jose Aldo, his leg blew up like a
balloon.
>> Yeah. Apparently, if it gets that bad,
compartment syndrome and the swelling is
bad enough for long enough, you can lose
function of your ankle and foot.
>> Yeah. Which is crazy. Right.
>> Right. Right.
>> Well, Uriah was one of the first guys to
implement um going into um what why
can't I think of it? The [ __ ]
chamber, oxygen chamber. Hyperaric.
Hyperbaric.
>> What's wrong with me today?
I'm making up fake words. Can't come up
with things that I know. But he was uh
using the hyperbaric like exclusively to
recover from that and documenting it.
And I was like, "Oh, that's
interesting."
>> A lot of good uh brain benefits for
hyperbaric. I I don't have one. I've
done it before, but it's never been like
a routine thing.
>> Well, it's you have to have access to
it.
>> And also the tent the tents the zip-up
tents at home
>> not as strong.
>> Yeah. You need a solid,
>> you know, you need like one of those
propane tank ones, those big thick
walled ones. the glass like it's you can
really get high pressure.
>> Yeah. Yeah. And then you know you got to
be careful in those things. You can't no
sparks.
>> Yeah. Dude, I saw a story that a kid was
in one and you saw that that was a
couple years ago.
>> Horrible. Horrible story.
>> Yeah. Um but hyperbaric is awesome for
recovery. It's also it lengthens.
There's a protocol that developed, one
of the universities in Israel developed
it where you do uh 60 sessions over 90
days and it lengthens your telomeres
that's commensurate with I think it's
like a 20 year difference in your
biological age.
>> Wow.
>> It's nuts. It's super effective. Like
when you get a lot of oxygen into your
system like that, it just helps
everything recover.
>> For sure. Like if you have an Aura ring
or a Whoop strap and you go into one of
those things, it shows you. It's like,
"Oh, you have an amazing recovery day."
>> Yeah, man. The metrics we can track now
with all the wearable devices, it's
pretty awesome, dude.
>> Well, it gets you to understand like I
think you can get a little addicted to
those things.
>> For sure. I I So, when I was competing,
I stopped using them cuz every day
wasn't ready. Need to rest. Red, red,
red every day. So, when I retired, I got
back to it. Now I'm using them. But like
when you're training for a fight, you
can't.
>> Isn't that interesting?
>> I'm not taking two days off. I need to
train and the fight's coming up. Like if
I'm in the red zone, I still need to
train.
>> I know. Isn't that interesting? Like
there's a wearable device would tell you
you're not supposed to train. But yet,
you know, in order to reach MMA, peak
physical condition. You have to push
when you're not ready. So your body's
forced to recover quicker.
>> I know this guy's training. That's why I
got rid of it during camp. I don't use
it or didn't use it. Well, it's weird
because like what if you listen to it?
Like some people say like Terence
Crawford was talking about like there's
times where he wanted to push where his
coaches told him not to and then he
realized they were right.
Yeah. Maturing through fighting man
pulling back got easier as I got older.
When I was a younger fighter, I didn't
want to take any time off. I needed to
be as many reps, as much time on the
mats as possible. But as I got to like
mid30s, 36, I was like, you know, this
is I got to take days off. Complete
days. Complete days. Not just an easy
day or a technique day. I just need to
be out of the gym.
>> Just relax.
>> Yeah. Reset my mind to where I want to
be there.
>> Just hard for fighters because you
operate on momentum of the conditioning
and the training and the discipline.
It's like you're in there. And then to
to have a day where you're not, you feel
like you're slipping backwards,
>> right? And you show up to fight week
with that momentum. Like I did
everything I could. I bust my ass every
day. like you just gives you so much
energy and so much confidence going into
fight week.
>> You've turned over every stone.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Well, the worst thing though is seeing a
fighter fight flat because you know they
overtrained.
>> And the one thing that I always point to
is when um Tim Kennedy fought Kelvin
Gasselum and he had gone through two
solid camps in a row. So he went through
one camp, peaked, got ready for the
fight, and then the fight got cancelled
and then went right back into camp for
to train for Gastelum and didn't give
himself the chance to recover. And you
know, he's too tough.
>> Too tough, too disciplined, and his body
broke down. You're redlining that engine
over and over and over. I mean, we just
saw with Morab, I think. You know, not
that taking anything away from Yan, but
>> you know, you stay that busy, those kind
of fights, those training camps, I mean,
it's hard to do. That's what makes
things like Jon Jones could be so
impressive to me, man.
>> To get on top and stay on top that long,
you know.
>> Yeah,
>> I know. It's nuts. There's so few guys
have been able to do that,
>> especially in MMA. Too many variables,
too many ways to slip on a banana pill,
get caught in something, you know?
>> I know. I kind of love that Kabib went
out on top
>> and never came back. Respect. That's
awesome.
>> And they offered him a lot of [ __ ]
money to come back. He's like, "Nope."
>> Yeah.
>> Nope.
>> Good for him, man.
>> Yeah. Good for him.
>> Yeah. That's the way to do it. And then
you go out all your faculties,
everything's fine, undefeated, go down a
legend,
>> right?
>> Yeah.
>> Like I think Floyd should have did it,
you know, like that. Now he's [ __ ]
[ __ ] fighting Mike Tyson, dude. Come on,
man.
>> I know. There was some rumors around
that Floyd was going to have a rematch
with Connor, which is crazy. But I think
Connor would probably do it, especially
if there weren't any drug testing
involved.
>> I wonder if he's going to come back at
for sure. Yeah.
But man, to heal from an injury like he
had, you probably need a bunch of stuff
to I don't know the ins and outs of
that, but you probably need some help to
heal.
>> He definitely needed some help to heal.
The problem is once you get used to that
help
>> and you enjoy it.
>> Yeah, I'm I'm getting used to the help.
>> I know. That's what I thought about
Cowboy when he got jacked and then he
was like he's going to and he he slimmed
back down again. He said he was going to
fight again, but I I think he might have
abandoned that. I got hooked up with
Bighgam and Ways to Well, they did all
my blood when I retired and got me. I
turned down no testosterone for me. So,
I'm not on any testosterone. I just
don't want to mess up my natural
production cuz mine wasn't high, but it
wasn't low. I'm just scared to mess with
it, you know?
>> Yeah, you don't need it. And it's
peptides can do a lot for you.
>> Yeah, I'm on a bunch of peptides.
>> Yeah, peptides are the way to go.
>> And I feel great. Honestly, I wish I
could have been on this [ __ ] when I was
fighting, man.
>> I know. You know, especially like the
growth hormone releasing stuff like
>> like tessamoralin.
>> Exactly. I could
>> pushed hard every day, man. As I got
older, it got harder, man.
>> I know. And all it does is help your
body recover. It's not like it gives you
some sort of a performance-enhancing
boost.
>> I know it definitely helps with like fat
>> mobilization and and and stuff like
that, but just being able to push hard
every day is huge in fighting, man.
Well, just BPC57, which offers no
performance-enhancing, but would help
you heal soft tissue injuries because
you're getting injured. You're just
getting small injuries every day
training. Every time you get leg kicked,
every time you get punched in the
stomach,
>> arm bars, shoulder,
>> everything, everything.
>> Your joints are always messed up.
>> Always. Always. And if you wanted
fighters to perform better, something
that would allow them to heal better is
only good. And it's not It's not going
to make you run faster. It's not going
to make you jump higher. It's not going
to make you an Uber. We're not talking
about that.
>> And I'm not even sure if that's banned.
I haven't checked. It is.
>> BBC57's banned. Yeah, it's unfortunate.
>> Yeah, creatine protein powders, that's
the same stuff. You just recover better.
>> Not banned. Creatine's not banned. Thank
god. But creatine in the 1990s were
thought of as the same way as steroids,
>> right? Yeah. Yeah. I remember
>> people thought like creatine's cheating.
Oh my god, you're taking creatine. They
they literally put it in the same
category as start. Then they realize,
oh, it's actually a part of food.
>> Great for your brain.
>> It's actually good for you.
>> Great for everything.
>> Yeah.
>> You know,
>> I just tal I just talked my wife into
starting creatine.
>> Women need it more than men. I was
reading,
>> right? You know, I read that. So, my
wife's just starting.
>> Yeah. I think the key is to like make
sure you're hydrated, too, and to make
sure you're not taking too much of it
and make sure you get your blood checked
and so you're not putting a lot of
pressure on your kidneys. But like
dehydration and kidneys that like that
is one of the big things that happens to
a lot of fighters that cut a lot of
weight. They start getting kidney
stones.
>> I mean Jose Aldo dealt with that. Uh DC
famously got pulled out of the Olympics
>> cuz he was having kidney failure.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. Your kidneys, man, they don't like
you being drained out like that.
>> I've had a few weight cuts where I felt
pain in my back. And I I think that's
kidneys.
>> 100%, man. Kidney shots. Didn't happen
often, but I've definitely had it.
>> Tightness. It feels kind of like
cramping in a weird place you never had
before in your back.
>> Spooky. You're drying out your organs
>> and then fighting for your life.
>> Crazy.
>> 24 hours. It was nice though when I
started making it to the top of the
cards, co-main event, main event,
because then you have like 30 something
hours to rehydrate. If you're fighting
early prelims in Vegas,
>> 2 or 3 in the afternoon,
>> you know, it's
>> right
>> not too long. Especially back in the day
when weigh-ins were at 5 or 6 p.m. There
wasn't a morning in ceremonial.
The real weighins were at five and you
were going to fight at two the next day.
>> Yeah, those were nuts. That was crazy.
That was crazy when guys would like
shuffle to the scale for the real
weigh-in
>> and you'd see them all like like a
skeleton
>> and you're facing off with your opponent
trying to be tough like both dying.
>> Well, I always remember Jose Aldo versus
Connor. Connor looked like he was one of
the Walking Dead.
>> Yeah,
>> he looked like a zombie. He was so
skinny.
>> His face bones.
>> Yeah. See if you can find that. And he
was also crazy like
like flexing hyped up with no like no
body fat, no water,
>> just completely dehydrated. Like look at
that. Look at that.
>> The eyes sunken in.
>> That is nuts. That guy weighed 145 and
he probably weighed 170 or at least 165
when he got into the actual octagon that
day.
>> I wonder if he does come back. I wonder
what he's going to come back at. like
lightweight or welterweight.
>> Well, the real key is if
>> if
>> I mean, he's had a lot of opportunities
and I don't know.
>> I thought the I thought the uh Chandler
fight was a layup for him.
>> That's the fight.
>> A great matchup for him.
>> Great fight technically. It's a great
fight stylistically. It's a great fight
age-wise. Chandler's got to be what, 39
now?
>> He's up there 38 or 39. Yeah.
>> I mean, and then there was the hype of
the ultimate fighter.
>> True. But it's just a layup for Connor.
Chandler's hitable, covers distance, not
that technically, you know, huge
movements, right?
>> You jump in, you get carried out. Connor
is a sniper, man. I just think that's a
great match up for him.
>> It's also a great match up for Chandler
cuz he's getting tired
>> and and he gets that, you know, cuz he
sat out for two years waiting on waiting
on Connor.
>> It's also like remember him with Olivea
even in the [ __ ] third round. That
dude is carrying Olive up and throwing
him through the air and body slamming
him while he's on his back. Like the
dudes has he has incredible endurance
and incredible discipline. He's always
fit. Yeah.
>> And that's been Connor's Achilles heel
is that Connor he's so explosive and so
fast that if you're sprinting in that
first round, guaranteed you're not going
to have that same kind of energy in the
fifth round.
>> Yeah. But some guys are just designed
like that. You know, you saw Taran
Woodley's a guy who has huge explosion,
>> but they don't necessarily keep that for
for 25 minutes. But on the opposite side
of that, you got a guy like Nate Diaz,
>> who keep that same pace from round one
to five.
>> Round 30. Yeah,
>> that dude could
right
>> out of a cannon, you know, and then slow
down.
>> Just the way muscles and fibers are put,
you know, connected. I don't know what
does that to to a human.
>> Well, the only guys that figured out how
to fight with all that bulk and just is
like Yoel Romero. He fought very smart.
It was just like
>> still fighting.
>> Still fighting,
>> dude. Still fighting. 50 years old,
jacked. More jacked than ever.
>> Yeah. 48 years old. 49 years old with
abs. Looking like a [ __ ] super
athlete.
>> I think he's doing bare knuckle maybe.
>> Yeah, he did bare knuckle. He did dirty
boxing. There's a there's a fight where
he had in dirty boxing where he's he's
touching the dude up and then out of
nowhere he just leaps up into the air.
He does like a vertical. He is like this
five foot vertical, lands on his feet
and just starts putting it on. Dude,
he's like, "I'm tired of this. Let me
show you what I can really do.
>> I've had fun playing with the food.
>> I've had fun.
>> He's a crazy He's been on the mats a
bunch at American Top Team as well. And
uh just a freak athlete, man.
>> Freak. He's the freak of all freaks.
>> Just a freak athlete.
>> Yeah. I mean, he came out of that Cuban.
>> They build him different over there.
>> Yeah. They build him with science.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> But he also figured out how to pace
himself,
>> you know? He figured out how to like
explode out of nowhere, but not explode
the entire time. like he had this casual
almost he would lull you into a false
sense of security and then just pounce
on you,
>> right?
>> Like that knee he hit with Widman with.
Dude, that was
>> a perfect example. Perfect example
because you're getting used to this kind
of pace and then
>> you're getting into the rhythm and then
you just break it up.
>> But also he didn't fight like obviously
he's a wrestler. He didn't wrestle too
too hard and really gas himself out. He
fought smart to to do what he's good at.
He barely used his wrestling in MMA,
which is so crazy.
>> Yeah,
>> it's really crazy if you think about how
good of a wrestler he was, right?
Because he was one of the best wrestlers
to ever compete in MMA. I mean, that
dude was elite as a wrestler. And in
MMA, he's just starching people.
>> Yeah.
>> When Luke Rockhold
>> starch Luke like that was crazy.
>> Luke's another guy still fighting. I
think
>> I think he might be done now. you know,
when he got knocked out by Darren Hill
in the boxing. I think that might be it.
I think that might be it. And Darren
Hill has got a resurgence, man, as a
boxer. He looks [ __ ] fantastic.
>> I I saw the highlights of that, but I
haven't seen a whole lot,
>> bro. He looks real good. He looks
>> But he's always been a good striker.
>> Very good striker. And his Achilles heel
has been his knees. You know, he's had
some serious knee problems and it really
impeded him from being able to train
hard. He wasn't the best grappler in the
world. And so that was always his
problem. But as a striker, I mean, that
guy was like very, very good. And you're
seeing him now in boxing, like he's
making a real run. I think it's very
interesting because if you watch him
boxold and you realize like Rockhold's a
really good striker, but against Darren
Till, he looked like he had no business
in there.
>> Yeah, that's something I would like to
do, man. Box
>> still.
>> I always wanted to have a couple before
I've, you know, but I'm still under
contract. Even though I'm retired, I
still have a contract with the UFC. So,
do you think the UFC would let you out
or they have Zufa boxing now?
>> So, they don't I trust me, I already
pitched it to them.
>> Did you?
>> Me and Nate Diaz, Zufa Boxing, let's go.
>> Let's go.
>> 170, whatever. 168, super middleweight,
let's do it. They don't want any
crossover.
>> What?
>> They I think Zufa wants to be taken as a
serious
>> hate money.
>> They must hate money.
>> Do they hate money?
>> They hate money.
>> Why do they hate money?
>> I don't know. They They want to be taken
by the boxing world serious. And I think
if you open that door of a MMA guy
fighting under Zufa boxing, every guy on
the roster, every girl on the roster is
going to want to do the same. M
>> it just becomes a mess. I think
>> I don't know about that.
>> I don't think it's a mess.
>> I think there are some really fun MMA
boxing match ups you can make.
>> Yes. [ __ ] yes. Especially when guys get
older and you know, you don't want to go
through the training camp with wrestling
and leg kicks and all that [ __ ]
>> That's the thing. Like thinking about a
a boxing training camp,
>> dude. With no grappling, no wrestling,
just run condition and box. It would be
smooth sailing, dude. I would love it.
Yeah.
>> Isn't it funny?
>> I'm on the beach. As tough as boxing is
like for you like oh this is going to be
so
>> I only have to box that's great. Yeah,
honestly, man, in training camp, those
are my favorite days. Striking, sparring
is my favorite days. Like the wrestling
classes, two-hour macco on Monday. It's
like brutal, bro.
>> Well, it' be great for you because
you've always had great hands. Like for
you, that's a perfect
>> Well, I started I started boxing before
mixed martial arts,
>> you know?
>> That would be a perfect way for you to
get some other fights in. I don't
understand Zufa.
>> Yeah, I would just love to lace him up
and and box professionally once. I know
they want to like redo boxing and I know
they want to like and I think there's
probably some real merit there.
Obviously what the Saudis have done with
Riad's season has been amazing. You
know, making matchups that no one can ma
make because
>> I'm a big Conor Ben fan, too, man. I'm
excited to see him fight in Zufa and the
guy he's fighting from New Orleans. Like
I know the guy like, you know, it's it's
fun.
>> It is exciting and it it will definitely
I think they will elevate boxing and
Dana is throwing all of his cards into
that. So, I'm sure it's going to work.
>> Yeah, I'm glad we're seeing more boxing,
ZuF boxing, and less power slap on my
feed whenever I go to
>> online stuff, you know?
>> Yeah, I'm not a big fan.
>> I've never been to one, but man, it's
just [ __ ]
>> not my not my jam.
>> Yeah, when we when I fought my
retirement in New Orleans, Mike Brown
went to the power slap they had there,
and he said it was awesome in person.
>> Oh, sure. It's awesome to watch someone
get slapped, but like I'm not
interested.
>> I'll watch it on my [ __ ] phone every
now and then. I'll see. I mean, the
highlights are good enough. You see the
knockouts and the crazy stuff, but
>> it's great Tik Tok content
>> for sure.
>> You know, you watch someone get slapped
and they they go forward and their head
hits the desk and they fall backwards,
but it's like it's a concussion.
>> You watching
>> and you can't there's no defense.
There's no like you can't flinch or you
get it's penalty if you do.
>> That's crazy. That don't make any sense
to me. I don't I don't get it.
>> But I think they've missed out on the
opportunity to have a Muay Thai League.
That's what I think. I just America just
doesn't buy into it that big.
>> I don't think that's true.
>> No,
>> no, no. I just think they have
>> Well, I mean, one one is doing it on
Amazon and Yeah. You know,
>> but it's like who's watching Amazon.
That's the problem. You have a show on
Amazon. Like, I know guys who've
released comedy specials on Amazon.
Like, good luck finding it. Nobody
cares. That's just the reality of this
platform. Whatever. I mean, look, Amazon
is a phenomenal platform for buying
stuff. I love it for buying things. I
use it all the time
>> every week.
>> It's great for buying books, audio
books. is great for buying products, but
for watching content, it's kind of a
mess.
>> They had a couple big shows like The
Marvelous, Mrs. Masel, and The Terminal
List. Those are great shows, and those
brought a lot of people over there. But,
I mean, you know how big the Terminal
List would have been if it was on
Netflix. As big as it was on Amazon.
More people watch Netflix than were ever
going to watch anything on Amazon.
>> That's why what Jake's doing with the
Netflix and bringing boxing MMA there.
Like, it's it's big, man. It's big. So
many people are going to be watching
this. 100%. But I think that if one was
somewhere else, I think it would have
been on the way here today.
>> What?
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. That got announced this morning.
>> An MMA fight.
>> That's what the Yeah, it's the third
fight on that card now.
>> That's the Rousey card. Yeah.
>> Oh, wow.
Interesting.
That's very interesting.
That's very interesting. That's a good
fight.
>> Dude, you said a lot of people don't go
to Amazon to watch TV. I just went I
just went down a rabbit hole for weeks
cuz I have a newborn at home. So, I did
the night shift and I ran out of [ __ ] to
watch on Netflix and on Hulu.
>> You ran out of [ __ ] to watch on Netflix,
>> dude. Staying up till a.m. every
night with a baby boy is like I hours of
documentaries, hours of stuff. I
switched over to Amazon and it was like
a whole new world, man.
>> Well, there's a lot on there. It's just
they don't have the same viewers. Like
our podcast is on Amazon. The numbers
that we get from Amazon compared to
everywhere else is so small.
>> Yeah.
>> It's just the reality of the way they've
sort of marketed it. and Amazon Prime
Video just doesn't have the audience
that everything else does,
>> right? And it's such a big platform. You
think it would be crossover from
>> I think it's a mistake on their part
because the the the product side is so
big and like Amazon for buying stuff is
so big that it's almost like an
afterthought and they have some money in
it but not the same sort of focus. Also,
the interface when I've gone to it is a
little weird. It's hard to find things.
It's not as simple. Like the interface
on Netflix is like the algorithm is
great. It's really good at recommending
you things. It knows what you like. It
shows you things. It's easy to find
things
>> for sure.
>> Amazon's like a little tricky. You go
there and you're like, "What?" But see,
the one FC thing faces the same problem
that PFL has. Like look, PFL is on ESPN
Plus, so you would imagine PFL would get
the same sort of audience that the UFC
got, but it doesn't.
>> No, of course not. Because the UFC brand
is like NFL like
>> the machine. It's just
>> Yeah, they they own that space.
>> But the fights on 1FC are [ __ ]
amazing. Like especially the Muay Thai
fights
>> with the small gloves.
>> Oh my god, man. And I I was trying to
pitch this to Dana. So I started send
sending Dana, he goes, "Send me some."
So, I started sending him all these like
highlevel Muay Thai fights and highlevel
kickboxing fights and they're [ __ ]
phenomenal. Look, he didn't like the
Charles Olivea this excuse me, this Max
Holloway Charles Olivera fight. He
didn't like it.
>> Like the BMF fight, the fight wasn't
that good. I was like, I thought it was
a great fight.
>> It was impressive if you were a fan of
technique and a fan of how hard it is to
do that to somebody like Max. Like,
super impressive.
>> And I was a fan of Max's defense. I
mean, Oliver was on his back in the
first round. A lot of people would have
finished
>> the first minute and a half, I think.
You know, dry
>> right.
>> I got finished there.
>> Yeah. I mean, I think Olivivera is one
of the greatest submission artists that
ever competed in the sport, if not the
best.
>> Numbers I mean, numbers prove it.
>> Yeah. And against elite guys like you
and like Justin and like he's [ __ ]
>> And then Gamro, dude. Gameamrod is I
trained with him for years.
>> He's a wrestler, but his grappling is
incredible, man. Oh, he got tied up in
knots with Olivivera. Olive is a
nightmare.
>> I knew it could happen, but I didn't
think it would be that. You know,
>> I was stunned, too. I was like, God,
he's good. He's so good on the ground.
So, like, props to Max for surviving,
but if Dana didn't like it, so I started
sending him
>> for for the I mean, when you have the
title, the BMF, like you want to see
some violence.
>> I understand, but it's still just a
fight. You can't fight outside of your
competition
>> just because a BMF belt's on the line.
You can't go out swinging for the
fences. But
>> I get it. I get what you're saying, but
I mean on the feet I think Olive was
winning on the feet.
>> Dude, he hurt Max in the first. I think
he hurt him in the fifth.
>> Well, he definitely hurt him in the
fifth when they did the point down the
ground thing and then he cracked him and
rocked him.
>> Oliver is [ __ ] cool.
>> He is, man. He's just known. We put the
label on the grappler because he's
finished so many guys and so many
bonuses, but he can strike, man.
>> He's good everywhere. Like with the
Chandler fight, he almost gets finished
in the first round, comes back and hits
him with a clean left hook in the
second.
>> Yeah.
>> Even [ __ ] good, man.
>> Yeah. Knocked him out. Even when I
fought him, like he he did a good job of
picking where the fight happened. He
wouldn't fight me in boxing range. It
was either all the way in clinch or out
where he was keeping my body, staying
long. Kicking range or clinching range
is kind of where he fought me.
>> Mhm.
>> The times I did have success was in the
boxing range, but he didn't let that
happen, you know?
>> Well, it just shows you how [ __ ] good
Ilia is.
>> [ __ ]
>> God damn that dude,
>> dude. I love Justin. I love I'm a fan. I
don't like this matchup for him.
>> Well, you know what? I mean, Justin
knows what he's getting into and it's
hard to count that dude out. He's such
an animal.
>> Yeah, he can land the shot, but
>> And it's in the White House. Who knows?
Who knows what's going to happen, but
that dude has the touch of death. He has
the touch of death.
>> And he's not a big guy. I've never seen
him in person, but I was talking to
somebody recently and they said, "No,
he's 57." You know,
>> he's small, man. He's not big. Yeah.
>> I mean, there's a photo of me standing
next to him when we did the podcast.
We're standing next to you. He's much
smaller than me. And bro, he puts people
into the shadow realm.
>> Yeah,
>> it's just technique and and confidence.
His confidence is crazy.
>> He had a he had a victory party for the
Olivivera fight the night before
>> drinking wine. I saw I saw
>> I don't think he was drinking wine. I
think he was drinking water the night
before, but he has drank wine in
weigh-ins when he's getting ready to
weigh in or what the weight cut.
>> He's he only did that for two camps. He
told me though.
>> He said it's too much. I was like
[ __ ] hung over the next day. Like
what am I doing?
>> Right. And you're about to get your
brain beat up. You're dehydrating.
You're drink. Come on.
>> Well, I think he's dehydrating himself
and he's said the wine actually helps
you get dehydrated.
>> Yeah, alcohol definitely does.
>> Yeah. Which is But it's Nobody does
that. Nobody drinks wine for the
weigh-ins. That's crazy.
>> No, bro. And like I'm so I'm not
drinking anything. I'm so depleted by
that time, you know?
>> I know. And he's getting hammered.
>> Lucky
>> and winning world championships.
>> Well, it was only two fights he did that
for, so it became like something where
people were pretending he does it every
way. Man,
>> he's got all these young fighters out
there in the world drinking on your own
day. I'm going to be like the champ,
man.
>> Yeah, but he's he's he's crazy talented
>> for sure. Weird way.
>> Whatever it is, he has it.
>> Yeah, he has it.
>> He's got it in his mind. He's got in his
technique. His grappling's been I
watched a video of him grappling with
Morab and he was all over Morab. That's
crazy.
>> They That's what they say. His
grappling's just as good, if not better
than his his standup.
>> That's where he started. He started as a
grappler.
>> I've never seen him grapple, though.
Well, he finished um Bryce Mitchell on
the ground and uh he's he's finished a
few people on the ground. He's he's like
he does clearly have phenomenal
submission ability. What are you showing
me here?
>> What is this him?
>> He says he's done it for a long time.
>> Yeah, you can see his face was already
sucked in a little bit.
>> He said that when he was on the podcast,
though, that he only did it twice
>> three years ago.
>> That's hilarious. Look, he's all tipsy
and drunk.
>> Look, I tell this to young. There's no
right. I mean, obviously don't smoke
crack before a fight. There's no right
or wrong way. Everybody's different.
Whatever makes you feel comfortable to
perform and compete. Like, everybody's
different. There's If there was a cookie
cutter, perfect the way to work,
everybody would do it.
>> Well, look at Carlos Protest.
>> Yeah, exactly. Smoking cigarettes.
>> Smoking cigarettes like the day of the
fight. He's sitting there smoking mars
darts.
>> Who was the boxer [ __ ] everybody up
>> back in the day?
>> Oh, yeah. Mayorgga.
>> Mayorga.
>> Yes. Yes. He was cigarettes.
>> Yeah. drinking [ __ ] uh Carlos
drinking whiskey, smoking sigs. Like
>> he's like going to a party and know he's
going to [ __ ] people up.
>> Respect.
>> Yeah. I mean, he's going to fight. Is he
fighting Jack Dela Matalena? Is that the
fight?
>> I believe that's the fight in Perth.
That is a very good fight.
>> Yeah. A tough one for Jack to come back
to, man.
>> I was in I was in uh MSG when when Islam
took the belt from him, dude. Complete
domination.
>> Well, that's another guy. How good is
that guy? And Ilia was talking about
fighting him too. You know, the size
difference would be so big.
>> So big.
>> Islam is huge.
>> He's huge.
>> He's huge.
>> He's too big for 55 and then you see him
at 170. Like how did you ever make 55,
>> right?
>> Cuz he's so dominant at 170.
>> Yeah. Hunter uh from the UFC. I was in
his office not too long ago and I they
keep record of all the weights fight
night. They don't release them all, but
they keep it. And we were talking about
the Islam fight when I fought Islam and
he was telling me his weight. I was
like, "That's what we
>> 192 or something, I think.
>> The day of the fight,
>> I think." So, yeah,
>> that's crazy.
>> Something 190, 191, something around
there.
>> That's crazy.
>> I was 176.
>> That's crazy. But it looks like it in
the cage. Like, whenever I
>> know, I looked across under those
spotlights and they had veins in his
shoulders and [ __ ] I'm like, "Fuck,
this guy's huge."
>> The ones to where I'm like, "How?"
Gregory Rodriguez is the one where I'm
like, "How?"
>> Yeah.
>> How how are you 185? How?
>> Mhm.
>> You're 6'3. You You're built like a
Greek god. How? How do you ever weigh
185? How is that even possible? Whenever
I interview him, I'm like, how?
>> Right?
>> Cuz I'm standing next to you and I'm
like, that doesn't make any sense. Like,
this doesn't You're not 185 pound guy.
You're huge.
>> Like in his prime when Luke Rock was a
champion, he's huge, man.
>> Huge. Huge.
>> Huge.
>> Yo Romero.
>> Yeah.
>> Yo Romero is the the best example. Like
how how will you 185? Feel like an
anvil, dude. Solid all the way through.
>> When he came in to do the podcast and
Joey Diaz translated for him, he was
like 230.
>> Yeah.
>> Just like his neck starts at the top of
his head. Just just a tank.
>> And shredded always. No jiggle, dude.
Shredded always. Veins in his abs. Like
crazy.
>> Yeah. And he was he was talking about
the Cuban program. I'll never forget. It
was like talking about like how they
have the the lower level guys only eat
twice a day, but the the top level guys
eat three times a day. And so everybody
is competing literally for food.
Crazy you say that. In Angola prison in
Louisiana, there's a boxing league. If
you're on the boxing league and get
accepted into it, you get more meals and
stuff. So the same thing, these these
prisoners are like trying their best to
stay on this boxing league. You get more
meals, more time, more free time. Wow.
>> They actually fight other prisons, man.
>> Whoa.
>> I was thinking this would be a great
documentary to come out with.
>> That would be a great documentary.
>> And it's CCTV to the other prisons, so
other prisons can watch in their cells.
>> Whoa.
>> They bust them to Angola. Other prisons
in Louisiana, they box.
>> Wow.
>> They put out a schedule every year. If
you ever want to go to one,
>> it's invite only, but I I I
>> I'd rather watch at home.
>> It's Bro, it feels It feels illegal,
dude.
>> It feels illegal.
>> Well, it might not be legal in other
states. Yeah, it might not be legal in
Louisiana. I might be getting in trouble
for for saying this.
>> Is anybody any good?
>> Hell yeah.
>> What do you think? Bernard just came out
of jail.
>> I mean, the guy obviously Tyson beat
him, but the Black Rhino was an Angola
boxing prisoner who got out or pardoned
to to fight Mike Tyson.
>> Really?
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
>> Wow.
That's crazy. I did not know that.
>> So, did they have a program where they
have coaches and
>> They have to. Do they have equipment and
everything?
>> Wow.
>> And different according to the schedule,
they'll bust them to the other prisons
to fight and it's played through all the
prisons in Louisiana,
>> man. You find a highly skilled guy who's
in that program
>> and they let them go. Nothing to lose.
>> The refs, they're legitimate refs, but
they let the fights go, man.
>> What kind of nutrition are they getting,
though? They're getting prison food or
they get any better food if
>> prison food, but they getting more
meals. They get to eat extra.
>> Still terrible food, right?
>> Yeah. Yeah. Angola is a crazy crazy
prison, man. Grow all the food there,
make all the clothes there.
>> They grow their food there.
>> Yeah.
>> So, maybe sustaining that
self-sustaining. I'm sure they ship a
bunch of stuff in, but they do have
crops.
>> And it's such a big operation that uh
the guards and the staff live on the
prison grounds. There's a elementary
school.
>> Really?
>> Yeah. There's ele the worker the guards
kids and stuff go to school on the
grounds. It's It's wild, man.
>> Oh, that can't be good.
>> It's wild. Every October they have a the
rodeo there.
>> Article about that boxing association
from 2011.
>> Some photos and an interview with some
people I think that were part of it.
>> Well, you want to focus.
>> Yeah. Women weakened legs. Ain't no
women in there, dog.
>> Hell no.
>> That's crazy.
>> Yeah. Serious businessman.
>> I did not know that. That's nuts, man.
Yeah. How come no one's done a
documentary in this? Or have they?
>> I know. Well, Bee Hop was a prison boxer
in Philly, right? Mhm. Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. This would be a great documentary,
man.
>> Yeah.
>> Interesting.
>> Yeah. Bernard learned I mean I mean
learned like real discipline in prison
and also learned that he never wants to
go back.
>> No.
>> You know, which is as important
>> and I think Angola is like maximum
security. So you don't go there if you
have less than like 25 years or
something. So these guys are in there
for a long time just trying to find
things to do and boxing, eating extra,
getting more free time. Why wouldn't you
do it? get in shape.
>> Keeps you focused. You have something to
concentrate on other than the fact that
you're in jail.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> It was wild, bro. They set up a ring
like in a cafeteria. I went there once
to watch it. It was It was insane.
>> Wow.
>> It felt like I was doing something
wrong. It felt like I was doing
something wrong.
>> Were the guys good?
>> [ __ ] yeah. Some of them were good, man.
>> Wow.
>> Really good.
>> Wow. [ __ ] What? That's interesting.
They pardon that guy to f Who's the
>> There's titles, too. They have belts.
The Black Rhino Cliff Clifford maybe
>> uh ATN.
>> Yes.
>> Yes, that's right. That's right.
>> So he was in prison boxing in Angola and
he fought Tyson.
>> Wow.
>> No [ __ ] Yeah.
>> I mean, why not, man? At least it gives
them something to focus on. The idea is
like, oh, you're going to make a more
dangerous felon, bro. They're dangerous.
>> They're danger. They're in there for
murder. What do you think? What do you
think? They're in there for armed
robbery, murder. Like, let them fight.
>> Right. Doing life. Like,
>> right. Exactly. Like also we trying to
pretend that that's not going to improve
the quality of their life and improve
them as a human being. Like doing
something difficult even if it's
difficult and violent like fighting will
make you a better human being for sure.
>> Make you tougher, smarter, more
disciplined, more focused. Also release
all the aggression there so you don't
have aggression in like regular
altercations nearly as much.
>> Yeah, that's where I'm at right now.
like leaving fighting in the rear view.
It's like what do I do with my life now?
Days alone.
>> Dude, I've been traveling so much. Twice
a week maybe. You know, if I'm home on
Friday, I do open mat jiu-jitsu,
>> couple kickboxing classes if I can make
it. But I've just been traveling so
much, man.
>> Why have you been traveling so much?
>> Sponsors, appearances, cornering
buddies, like just saying yes to
everything that I couldn't before, you
know?
>> Right.
>> I'm more busy now, I think, because
before I would shut everything down like
I got to get ready for this fight. I
have to focus on this. No, I can't do
anything. Black out these dates. Now
it's like,
>> you're really good on the desk, man.
>> I enjoy it, man. I really do enjoy.
>> You could tell. Yeah.
>> I mean, I think that's one of the best
things that the UFC does with uh former
fighters is they give them this
opportunity to do stuff on the desk. I
think that's huge.
>> I I I hope they keep bringing me. I just
signed a contract for the year. Um when
it was ESPN, I was kind of doing like
independent contractor stuff. If they
would ask me, I would say yes. But I'm
on contract with UFC for a year, so
hopefully they keep bringing me. Man, I
all the people behind the scenes, just
being around the event that I've, you
know, I've fought at for so long, it
just makes me feel good.
>> Yeah.
>> And I get nervous cuz it's live TV, you
can't [ __ ] up,
>> you know, live TV is different.
>> Well, I would like to see they allow
more of you guys to take the the spots
doing fights in commentary.
>> Oh, like color.
>> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, right now it's just
Dominic Cruz, Paul Felder, Michael
Bisping, and DC. That's essentially it.
>> Yeah.
>> I mean, those those are only former
fighters from the UFC that are doing it.
>> And I I really think there's room for
more guys.
>> Yeah.
>> Dan Hardy was great.
>> He was awesome at it. He was
>> I don't know what the [ __ ] happened with
him in the UFC. They had some sort of a
squabble and he left, but he's fantastic
over at PFL.
>> He's still with them.
>> Yeah. Yeah, he does that. He's really
good, man. He's a
>> He breaks stuff down. He's
>> very good. Yeah,
>> very good. And he's a great guy. I've
known him forever. He was a 10th Planet
jiu-jitsu guy. So, I've known him since
like
>> [ __ ] I must have met him 20 years ago.
>> Wow.
>> Yeah.
>> I didn't know that.
>> Yeah. Before he was fighting GSP, before
he was fighting any of those guys, I I
knew him.
>> Yeah.
>> He would come over from England to train
in America.
>> He was such a knockout artist, we never
really get to see him
>> do jiu-jitsu.
>> Yeah. No, he was good at jiu-jitsu, too,
man. I mean, he trained hard and he's
just a very smart dude who knows a lot
about the sport.
>> Yeah, it seems like it. And when he's
breaking down stuff, you can tell he's
studied.
>> He's also just like a very skillful
commentator because he's very
intelligent in his the way he describes
things. It's exciting. I mean, I think
he's they I don't know what happened
with them. I mean, when I'm on the desk
with those guys, I try my best to not
break things down too much like on the
stat side. I try to make it seem like a
conversation sit on the couch watching
fights with your boys where I talk about
experiences that I've had and stuff cuz
they explained it to me like that's what
fans want to see. If they want to look
up stats, they'll go look it up. They
don't want to hear you talk about
submission attempts and exact stats.
They want to know your experience.
>> Yeah.
>> So like each rep I'm think I'm getting
better, you know, open it up and being
more myself. I'm trying to do a good job
and I really really enjoy it. I think
stats are interesting sometimes, but
what's really more important than that
is like a technical breakdown of
abilities, right?
>> Because stats it's, you know, it's it's
variable depending on who you're fight
like like you take Charles Olivera's
stats and then you say his fight with
Islam Makachev and you say, "Okay, well,
where's the stats?" Like it's it's like
it's it's really dependent upon skill
sets, who's your level of competition,
who you're competing with.
>> You know what I mean?
>> That was a quick submission though.
The stats are one submission to tip. One
submission,
>> bro. He's got a crushing squeeze when
you
Yeah.
>> Yeah. He strangled me. And the way he
did it, I think he uh Moano filled in
last minute to fight Islam and got
caught with the same choke.
>> It's kind of like a a Dar choke, but he
locks it on his forearm.
>> He doesn't go to the bicep. I know.
>> And the squeeze is different. He's
pulling to his chest. It's not like a
angle squeeze. It's It's different. So,
the defense is different. When I got my
legs out and tried to walk around, he he
hooked my leg, but like the squeeze was
completely different.
>> Completely different.
>> You know, you belly down and kind of get
some space to breathe. You can't when
the way he does it.
>> Craig Jones broke it down.
>> It's like a front choke. Almost like a
>> Mhm.
>> like a squeeze to your chest. It's not a
angle that you use for a normal Dar
choke.
>> I know. I was shocked the first time I
saw him do it. I was like, maybe he just
like couldn't cinch up the bicep. Then I
saw him do it a second time. I was like,
"No, no, no, no. This guy's trying to do
it that way. He he grabs right here,
right? Craig Jones has some breakdown of
it on YouTube where he explains why it's
effective and what's so good about it
>> and it when he gets the grip locked in
like it's complete immediate blood
shutdown. You know, usually you feel it
slowly fading away. It was like right
away.
>> Wow. So that dude's got a back drive
through movie on
>> the the darkness started coming in like
as soon as he got the grip.
>> Really?
>> Yeah.
>> He's so [ __ ] strong, man. There's
like something about those Dagistan
guys, man. Like the discipline those
[ __ ] have.
>> Yeah.
>> You know, there's Dagistan guys that are
making their way into Muay Thai now,
too. There's this dude, Acadullah,
Imamang Gazaliv. I talk about him all
the time, but I can't talk about him
enough. He's one of those one FC guys
that is fighting um in Muay Thai from
Dagistan. And this [ __ ] kid is 22
years old and he's knocking out like
multiplet time world tie champions.
>> I've never seen him,
>> bro. This dude is a freak.
>> I mean, he's a he's just putting people
into the shadow realm every fight,
>> dude. It's so wild to fight 4 oz gloves
in Muay Thai.
>> I know.
>> But I mean, you could throw elbows and
stuff and knees. So,
>> it's perfect. It's like 4 oz gloves. I
mean, look, you're throwing elbows,
knees, everything else in the clinch. It
allows you to grapple better. It just
makes it so much more dangerous for the
blocking. You know, you don't have the
the the gloves covering all the space
around your ears.
>> But this cat is special, man. He's
special.
>> Nasty.
>> And he's from Dagistan. It's like, okay,
imagine this [ __ ] gets into MMA.
Everybody's [ __ ] If this guy can
wrestle at all, which you know he can if
he's from [ __ ] Dagistan.
>> Well, they do a lot of kickboxing for
[ __ ] right?
>> Yeah. This dude's something though. He's
something new.
>> Oh my god. cuz he's 22 years old and
he's like world Muay Thai champions.
He's sleeping them all.
>> Yeah,
>> it's nuts, man.
>> What weight is that?
>> Uh 145.
>> I think he's 145 or 35. 145.
>> Probably tall tall.
>> 132. Is that what it says?
>> Uh this thing right here says uh on
screen weight limit 132.7.
>> Interesting.
>> 510.
>> Interesting.
>> 60 kg.
>> 22 years old, man. Well, at that weight.
Well, and then you think about one has
some crazy thing. Look at this. Win,
knockout, win, knockout, win, knockout.
He's a freak, man. And that one dude
that made it to the unanimous decision
is just this kid from Morocco who's just
tough as [ __ ] But godamn, he took a
beating.
>> They have such a great product, man. I
wonder how many like viewers and how the
ratings are.
>> I mean, it's big in Asia, but um there
they have financial struggles. I don't
want to speak to it because I don't know
enough, but there's a lot of talk. I
know they wanted to start doing shows in
America.
>> They've done a few.
>> Yeah.
>> Uh I know they did one in Colorado. They
maybe have done multiple. I'm not aware.
But uh it's a great product. That's the
thing. It's like I love watching their
kickboxing fights on YouTube. And that
kid Yuki that I was telling you about
that throws calf kicks. He's [ __ ]
everybody up with calf kicks. And
there's another guy from a lot of these
Kyokushin guys, especially in
kickboxing. So like they have different
rule sets over there in one. You can
fight kickboxing where they use big
gloves or you could fight Muay Thai
where they use little gloves and I think
they've had Muay Thai fights where they
have big gloves too. So in the
kickboxing you're not allowed to clinch,
not allowed to throw elbows,
>> but in the but you you can throw knees
but you can't clinch and just continue
to throw knees and you can't sweep and
you can't take guys down. It's a little
confusing. I think Muay Thai is the way
to go. But the thing about kickboxing in
Japan is like they just wanted a that's
what K1 was. They they're like, "Let's
just take out all the clinching and make
this as exciting as possible. What's the
best way to do that?" And the elbows
elbows are very effective obviously and
knock a lot of guy guys out, but also
cut a lot of people open and stop fights
prematurely, which is why Pride didn't
allow elbows, which is really crazy when
you think about that because Pride had
soccer kicks and stomps.
>> But you were fighting multiple times.
>> True cuts. You know, if you get cut in
the first fight, it could change
everything. I think that makes sense.
>> I kind of, but I mean soccer kicks,
stomps and soccer kicks with no elbows,
it's hard to say because for
>> knees to a grounded guy.
>> Yeah, ground and pound elbows are so
effective. It's so important.
>> I mean, it really like guys that think
they're comfortable and safe in the
guard, you're not. You're not. When a
guy can still bust you up with elbows
from a short distance, it's a very
effective technique.
>> Yeah. Very damaging cut. Yeah. Very,
very damaging technique. Well, there's a
real problem with a cage. And the
problem is the wall. Like the the fence
is an artificial structure that keeps
you from being able to move. And I've
always said this that I I think it
should be an open mat. It should be a
large mat. And you should you should not
>> like a wrestling mat.
>> Yeah. Like a big wrestling mat. Like
think about a basketball game. Like
think about how much space is on a
basketball court
>> and you still get 16,000 people in there
to watch a basketball game. guys would
be I I would think running running
around a lot of you know
>> maybe you get penalty penalty for moving
too much maybe you have red you have a
red zone yellow card or
>> well you have a you have a center that
you're supposed to stay in and then you
have a red zone outside of it and then
you have a black zone outside the red
zone where you get points taken away you
enter into the red zone too many times
you get a warning for the first time
another warning for the second time
third time you get a point taken away so
you could use it once or twice to evade
but then you got to go back into the
area we're supposed to fight.
>> I think that would be that would be
cool. How big of a of an area are you
talking?
>> Basketball court.
>> That's too big, man.
>> That's too big.
>> How about football? How about football
[ __ ] field?
>> That's too big.
>> They're doing that with no rules fights.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. I watch a lot of no rules fights.
They're hard.
>> The Russian The Russian stuff.
>> They're so scary because guys just mount
guys and gouge their eyes out.
>> Yeah. Yeah,
>> they're mounting people and just shoving
their fingers in there and guys are
screaming and tapping and it's like, oh,
>> I run across some pretty crazy stuff on
IG sometimes from those.
>> But they're fighting in parking lots.
They're fighting on
>> phone booths, cars, upside down
underwater. They're fighting everywhere.
>> They're fighting everywhere.
>> I saw them on a cargo container floating
on the on top of water where you get
knocked off in
>> That's crazy. It's so ridiculous.
>> American KO'ed and you fall into the
water and you just breathe water and
they don't rescue you in time. just
fight with those kid floaties on.
>> If you get knocked out, you just float
to the top
>> instead of those Muay Thai things.
>> Blow them up. Your corners and your
corners blowing them up.
>> Yeah. But I think the cage I like like
you know how like the UFC uh BJJ is that
sloped surface.
>> A perfect examp.
That's a good one.
>> And that's a big space they fight in
Karate Combat.
>> Yeah.
>> Something like that I think would be
good. It would be better. There's
something about the But the problem is
then you're you're backing up and you
hit that ramp and you fall down.
>> Or what was the old karate? Uh it was
like I don't think it was Chuck Norris.
>> Chuck Norris.
>> His league. Something like that.
>> Yeah. I think it was World Combat League
or something. I went to see that one.
>> WCF or something.
>> Yeah. Something like that. World Combat
Federation. Yeah. I think the first guy
to do a slanted thing though was Frank
Shamrock. You know, a lot of people
don't realize that Frank Shamrock had an
organization for a while and they fought
in like this sloped sort of thing
>> like in Kumate.
>> I think he might have been the first
guy. Frank was way ahead of his time.
Way ahead of his time. And he's another
guy that got erased from because he had
a falling out with the UFC and he got
kind of erased from the lineage of like
elite fighters from the past
>> fighting older in Strikeforce like still
bodied up and
>> I know
>> he was a student of of martial arts.
>> Yes. Yes. But by the time he got to
Strike Force his kind of best days were
behind him like when Nick Diaz beat him
up.
>> Yeah.
>> It was he wasn't the same guy when he
fought Phil Baron. He wasn't the same
guy. He had a lot of knee problems and
it's like he's just not after a while
it's like
>> he might have been like 40s in strike
force or
>> I don't know how old he was
>> late 30s 40s you know
>> late 30s for sure but when you go back
to his fights in the UFC I mean he was a
pioneer man when he fought Tito Ortiz he
was nowhere near Tito's size
>> and he just beat Tito with cardio just
cardio and defense and then eventually
wore his ass down and beat him up and
changed Tito's entire strategy for
fighting after that. He was one of the
guys early was like super fit, super,
>> you know,
>> really focused on his his health and uh
nutrition and supplementation and
everything. Back then you didn't see a
whole lot of that, but he was one of the
guys for sure.
>> Well, the Lion's Den, you know, Ken
Shamrock's his the thing that they put
guys through, this gauntlet that they
put guys through in order to make the
team to make the fight team was hell.
>> It was just hell. They wanted guys to
break and so extreme conditioning,
extreme mental toughness, like all that
was emphasized.
>> Yeah.
>> And so Frank was the best example of
that though because he was
>> he was elite everywhere. He was taking
guys down. He had great submissions. He
had great striking. And you know, he
fought some wild fights, man. He fought
uh Enson. I I don't remember where that
was. Was that in K1?
But he beat Enson with knees.
Like he he had fought in multiple
organizations. Obviously started out in
Pancra.
>> Yeah.
>> But he had only been training for like a
year or something like that when he
fought Boss Rutin in Pancra.
>> He was super [ __ ] talented, man.
>> Why they let him wear boots, right? Or
some kind of leg.
>> Yeah. You had some weird shin pad deal
with Well, you had wrestling shoes with
shin pads and open hand slaps,
>> you know.
>> Yeah. Yeah. It was always Palm.
>> Uhhuh. Yeah. So, what is this in? Does
it say what it's in?
>> But in
>> 2011,
>> this says UFC. It's not UFC. Oh, it's
Valley Tudo Japan.
>> Yeah. This was before 2011. They just
posted.
>> Yeah. Okay. So, this is Valley Tudo
Japan. So, Val Tudo Japan. I wonder if
it's the same Val Tudau that Hixon
fought in. So, Hixon was, you know, the
champion of Valudo Japan early on.
Well, that was like the in the
documentary Choke. You've seen that,
right?
>> A long time ago. Yeah.
>> Documentary Rules. Yeah, man.
>> That documentary rules.
That's how Hixon became a legend
>> back in the real NHB. No.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> No rules days,
>> right?
>> Well, the first UFC that I went to was
UFC 12 in Dothan, Alabama, and you could
wear wrestling shoes, you could punch
guys in the nuts,
>> hair pulling,
>> grab their clothes.
Uh there was two weight classes back
then. Um like because Vtor won the
heavyweight tournament back then. I
think they had two weight classes back
then. So they still recognize there's
some smaller guys and some big guys. And
smaller guys are real talented, but
they're never going to beat the big
giant guys. Let's have a weight class
for them.
>> Yeah.
I remember written VHS tapes with my dad
or the old UC's. Dude,
>> what got you into the sport? How old
were you when you first started martial
arts training? Period.
>> 17.
>> 17. That's late.
>> Yeah.
>> If you think about it, right?
>> Well, I mean, if you want to call
wrestling, I wrestled for two years when
I was 10 and 11 for a private club. We
did like traveling Texas a lot,
Louisiana, small club meets, but other
than that, no combat sports, no martial
art experience.
>> How'd you get into it?
>> Boxing. When I was 17, I wanted to box.
Always wanted to box. Started going to a
boxing gym. Met some MMA guys there.
didn't know they had MMA where I was
from, then went to the MMA gym and never
went back to the boxing gym.
>> So, what year are we talking?
>> 2006, maybe.
>> Oh, okay. So, this was right when the
UFC first started.
>> This is like I remember when Stephan and
and Forest did the big thing. This was
like beginning around the time I was
training boxing and and mixed martial
arts. So, that wave like I just never
stopped.
>> Wow.
>> Yeah, man.
>> What was it? The uh World Combat
Like Chris Horadeeki was over there. Ben
Roto was over there. Remember what was
that? The team organization. That was
big at the time,
>> right?
>> Yes. Everybody had teams and stuff. That
was weird.
>> That was real big around that time.
>> Yeah. I didn't know being
>> That's where Dan Miller, Jim's brother,
landed the grossest guillotine I've ever
seen in my life. Have you ever seen this
one?
>> I think so.
>> Oh my god. It's the worst guillotine of
all time. He gets this guy in a
guillotine and traps his head in his
chest and bends his chest. So his head
is connected to his own chest sideways.
>> So like this. His head went all the way
down and touched his chest. I don't even
know how he stayed alive.
>> Watch this. Watch this. Watch this
guillotine. Check this out.
>> Now watch this guine. Look at that. Look
at that, bro.
>> Jesus.
>> Bro, how's that guy alive? Look at that.
Look at that. How is he alive?
>> Have you ever seen that before? Ever?
Like that's crazy.
>> That is the craziest guillotine I've
ever seen in my life.
>> That's so crazy.
>> Looks like his neck's broken, bro.
>> How did How's he alive?
>> Yeah.
>> Like, first of all, why did it take so
long for the referee to stop? Who's the
referee?
>> Steve Mazaki.
>> I don't know who it is, but you could
have probably stopped that a couple of
seconds earlier. But I mean, it's just
hard to imagine that a neck can go in
that direction. Like, it's so that
doesn't show it. The other angle that
you showed is really what showed it.
>> Yeah.
>> The other angle where you see it from
the side where you see his head like
when it when he cinches it up here. That
is crazy.
>> That you're not supposed to bend like
that. You know, your ear is never
supposed to touch your chest.
>> No.
>> I don't know how it does. I don't know.
I It just seems like everything would
break. It seems like you would never
walk again.
>> He's not Dan's not fighting anymore,
huh?
>> No. Jim's still fighting.
>> Jim's still rolling, man.
>> Jim's still fighting.
>> Still rolling.
>> It's crazy. most fights in UFC history
>> and and still fine. No surgeries, no
nothing.
>> Yeah.
>> Still durable.
>> Did get beat up. I think was his last
fight. Bobby Green. That was the last
time I think I saw him fight.
>> I don't know if that was his last fight.
He definitely got beat up.
>> He definitely lost a step. I mean, he's
40 years old,
>> but man, dude still loves it. Still
loves it.
>> Respect to him, dude.
>> Yeah.
>> I mean,
>> he sent me a cook a cookbook. He came
out with a cookbook. He's a big cook and
hunter and stuff, you know. He sent me a
cookbook and a spatula. Oh, that's
Captain Redbeard or Jimmy Redbeard on
the spatula. It's like engraved into it.
[ __ ] yeah.
>> He's quite a character.
>> Yeah, I like him. I like him, man.
>> I like him a lot, too. He's a very fun
dude and also complete wits about him.
Doesn't have any problems mentally, you
know? He's like
>> seems like a hard worker. He's always on
his farm doing stuff like you would
never think he was a fighter if you
didn't know.
>> I know, right?
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. He's he's a fascinating character.
Well, the thing about this sport is that
it like exceptional humans are
exceptional at fighting. Like to be an
exceptional fighter, you have to be an
exceptional person. There's really no
way around it. There's like it's too
hard to do. You have to be a very unique
kind of human being that can get through
those camps, that can perform under the
big lights, that can figure out how to
keep getting better and evolve.
>> For sure. And that type of stuff is like
the last time I was on the show, I was
talking about it's like a gift and a
curse, man. It's like you have to be all
in at something. Those kind of people
who are built like that.
>> Whether it's fighting or drinking or
whether it's good or bad, you're going
all in. It's dangerous.
>> The problem. Yeah. The problem is like
what you see with Connor when they don't
have the fighting then they go all in
with the other things.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Right. Fighting was always for me always
pulled everything together, you know?
>> That's why like retiring is scary, man.
Days are long. I have a lot of time.
It's I don't have to get ready for a
fight. I don't You know,
>> you're still a young man, too. You still
have a whole lot of life ahead of you.
I'm
>> 37, man.
>> Yeah. So, it makes you think like, what
do I do now? What do I do with my
future? What do I do? What do you want
to do?
>> Dude, I kind of got like for a week or
so, I would say depressed, but I kind of
got into like a funk like what the hell
am I going to do with my life? Every day
I would wake up for the last 20 years,
how can I be better fighter? How can I
what's new in fitness? How can I push
myself? I want to be the champion. And
then boom, you lay the gloves down and
you wake up and you're a [ __ ]
civilian. Like,
>> it feels crazy,
>> you know? It's like I'm relearning who I
am. Like I always knew fighting was just
something I did. It wasn't who I was.
>> But after 20 years of doing it, even
though you know that and you think that,
like it, [ __ ] I don't know who I am
without fighting.
>> How long did it take?
>> I'm a father. I'm a husband. I'm a lot
of things. But like fighting was
>> a cloud in my mind that never went away
for 20 years,
>> right?
>> And now I wake up and it's it's gone.
Like what what do I do?
>> I'm still trying to find out, Joe. I
don't know. Did you still get nervous
when you would go to events? You know
that feeling that you get like you you
be competing? No. No. No. When you go to
other events for other people, just
feeling like you might have to compete.
>> Dude, my hands are sweaty.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> That's weird, right?
>> For sure.
>> I mean, obviously I
>> It just happened to me last a couple
weeks when Max fought Charles. I was
nervous. I had armpit stains. My hands
were sweating. I'm like, "Dude, I hope
those people don't don't see this,
>> right?" Because you feel like you're
still there.
>> I'm connected to both these guys for
some reason.
>> Well, you are forever. Yeah, that's the
thing. That's what's so interesting
about watching like old fighters, even
old boxers when they go to like Hall of
Fame ceremonies and they're seeing each
other and hugging like those guys are
connected in time forever.
>> Yeah. Max Max came up to the desk and I
was like,
>> we spent an hour of our lives fighting
each other, you know, as hard as we
could.
>> And he didn't even know. He's like, "No,
wait, an hour." I'm like, "Yeah, dude.
We went to two decisions, two five round
decisions, and we fought the the first
fight
>> was a one or two rounds, so it's an hour
of fight."
>> Yeah. We spend an hour beating each
other up.
>> That is crazy when you think about it.
>> An hour is a long time, man.
>> An hour is a long time to fight another
man.
>> Especially bearing your soul in front of
the world. It's not a regular hour just
hanging out at the beach.
>> It's the biggest hour.
>> Yeah. And it's an hour you're prepared
for for months each time.
>> But because of that, like like you were
saying with the boxes, like we know
>> we have an unwritten thing we know about
each other. You know, something we never
spoke about, but we know each other
better than a lot of people do.
>> Yeah. You know when a person breaks and
who doesn't break.
>> Max doesn't break.
>> He doesn't break. I mean, you see it in
that fight. I mean, how's he how does he
go through that whole round and not get
submitted
>> dry with Olivivera on his back
>> and got close a few times like crushing
his face,
>> you know,
>> like that old shiny where you go the
angle you you can choke through the jaw.
>> Oh yeah, man. Guys go to sleep.
>> Neck crank. It'll choke you to sleep
through the jaw.
>> Well, even just a a rear naked across
your face. I've seen guys go to sleep.
Yeah,
>> they just go to sleep and you try not to
tap and you just wake up and you're
like, "How did he choke me out over my
face?"
>> Cuz it's like a
>> You get enough torque and and crank
it'll Yeah. It'll cut off the vein or
whatever. You know, it'll it'll put you
out.
>> It's enough. It's which is nuts.
>> And it's so much pain on the jaw, too.
>> Oh, it's horrible.
>> Choking getting lack of oxygen to the
brain is one thing. Like the jaw binding
up against the bones, like you know that
sharp pain you get when somebody's face
cranking you and your jaw hell.
>> Yeah. Yeah, it feels like it's going to
dislocate.
>> Yeah. Well, that was the thing with
Kabib and Connor where he did that
torque
>> that torque crank where he got his neck
and he he cinched it up with the forearm
behind the neck
>> and pulls back like this like that is
hell.
>> And those guys squeeze is different,
man. Those guys squeeze is different.
>> Well, there's something about lifelong
grapplers. There's like a density to
them that's just different. the density,
the strength, and just like the knowing
of where to put the pressure and what
angle to turn your hips to make a big
difference. You know, people outside
don't even see it, but it's so so
>> crucial in the moment. Yeah.
>> When somebody's on your back and they
just turn a little bit toward the elbow,
you know, rather than just squeeze
straight on. Small things like that
>> or you know what win fights. I'll tell
you the fight that I'm really looking
forward to. Really looking forward to
because I don't know what's going to
happen is Hamza versus Strickland.
I'm very interested in that fight.
Strickland is a [ __ ] nightmare
standing up. He's a nightmare.
>> For sure.
>> What he did to Fluffy Hernandez, I was
like, "Holy [ __ ] man.
>> The body shot, the finish." But he made
Fluffy fight, you know, he fights at a
slower pace. He has his own pace in
there and he kind of forces the other
guy to fight. his opponent has to fight
this pace with him. I think the best the
best chance is to to blitz him, do
unorthodox things cuz he wants to jab,
circle, throw a kick, jab, circle. He
keeps a very slow pace. He's not
sprinting or trying to blast you out of
there.
>> He just
>> Well, he doesn't get hit.
>> Chips chips away, high guard, good show.
>> Yeah, very good show. His defense is
extraordinary. He, you know, one of the
things he was telling me is like, I spar
more than anybody and I get hit less
than anybody. And that is true. Like if
you think about how much that guy spars,
it's a giant part of his training.
>> Look at James Tony. He was hard. He was
hard to hit and all he did was spar.
>> Yeah. You know, right? Perfect example.
>> There's something taught in that in
those moments.
>> 100%.
>> Yeah.
>> Understanding of distance, timing,
pattern recognition. You're constantly
in there moving around,
>> right?
>> It's like And then there's also the
cardio that comes from sparring.
>> It's It's different.
>> Yeah.
>> Like because his cardio is almost
entirely based on sparring. And man,
that [ __ ] doesn't get tired in
there,
>> right?
>> And the Fluffy fight was like, I thought
Fluffy was gonna be a problem. I'm like,
Fluffy's really good, man. You think he
he submitted Hudalf Vieiraa? He's got
all this [ __ ] crazy cardio. He puts a
pace on guys. And
>> Strickland made it look like he just did
not belong in there.
>> He's so heavy on that front foot,
though. I can't believe guys aren't
smashing that calf, man.
>> I know. Well, he's hard to hit, man. And
he also knows how to do that that um
[ __ ] the that hacky sack thing where
you know like you're bending your knee
upwards. You know what I mean?
>> To check it.
>> Yeah. Well, you don't even check it. You
just kind of like relax your leg and
lift it up.
>> You know who who showed me that is Alex
Pereira. He's like instead of checking
it, it's like if you check it, it still
hurts you for sure.
>> But he just lifts his leg up. He just
goes heel to knee on the opposite side.
And so like a hacky sack.
>> Right. Right. I've seen guys take thigh
leg kicks like that.
>> Yeah.
>> Kind of let it swing a little,
>> but he does it with the calf. So, it's
like he sees it coming. Instead of doing
that, stepping out and checking it, he
just like like look at this. See that?
Yeah. That's it.
>> Well, that I think in this instance, I
think that was probably the I don't know
if that was the first fight or the
second fight, but Izzy's calf was
already done. He was really happy. He
told me after that fight, he goes when
he got stopped in the first fight, he
goes, "Dude, I wasn't even that hurt. It
wasn't that." He goes, "I couldn't
move." He goes, "My calf was cur."
>> It doesn't It doesn't go away.
>> Yeah, that one's crazy. That That's hard
to do, though.
>> That's That's kind of silly soccer move.
>> That's hard to do.
>> That's kind of silly. I don't think he
really does that.
>> Block it with the bottom of your foot.
>> He could, though. I'm very interested in
that fight, too. Him versus Sir Gan.
That's very interesting.
>> For sure. For sure. And I know the power
is going to translate over to to
heavyweight. That's not going in. He'll
be able to flatline heavyweights
>> 100%. Especially with zero weight cut.
>> Yeah, he's probably 230 240 walking
around. 230 something maybe.
>> Yeah, he's 240.
>> Yeah, dude. Come on.
>> He's 240 walking around.
>> That's a legit heavyweight. He's tall.
Long
>> [ __ ] guy fought at 85.
>> So is Siro, man.
>> Zero's good.
>> An athlete heavyweight. Not just a big
guy fighting at heavyweight. He's a
legit heavyweight.
>> It is a crime in the sport that that
fight with Aspenol got stopped the way
it did. That he eye poked him. It's a
crime.
>> Yeah,
>> because that fight was playing out in a
very interesting direction cuz Aspenol
was having a really hard time touching
that area.
>> He was bleeding.
>> He was getting busted up. He was getting
touched up a lot. Sirill's jab is legit.
>> And that's what I was most excited for.
I wanted to see Tom have to come back,
lose a round, and come I've never seen
him.
>> Obviously, I've seen him fight, but I've
never seen him in a real fight where you
have to fight your way back into it or
>> How many times has he even been in the
second round?
>> Twice, maybe. Something crazy like that.
Nuts. And that's why the fan base kind
of blew me away. I was like, "These guys
are so high on Aspenol right now." Like
for a few months, everybody was talking
about Aspenol, how good he is. I've
never seen it. Not that he's not. He He
might I mean, he has to be good to be
where he's at.
>> Yeah.
>> But I haven't seen it.
>> Well, my thought was the real problem
that Aspenol is going to present is in
the grappling. He's a Brazilian
jiu-jitsu black belt. He's a big [ __ ]
He's fast. He's got a power double. I
mean, he explodes. But when he's
standing there and trying to stand with
Sirill Gan, this is the first time that
he was ever in front of a guy who is
agile and quick and very technical. Sir
Gan was doing a lot of sneaky [ __ ] One
thing he does is he keeps his hand low
and then he pops that jab out so you
don't know where it's coming from.
>> Up jab.
>> He does a lot of weird [ __ ] with his
front leg, too.
>> He's pretty quick for his size.
>> Real quick. Real quick. And he's good
mobility. Good hips.
>> Yeah, man. Sirill's a great athlete.
Like it's not just that. I've seen him
dunk basketballs and [ __ ] like he's he
can move but it's just the fluidity of
his striking is so efficient.
>> Like that's his world if you just want
to strike with him.
>> Yeah.
>> I mean Jon Jones is so smart. Jon's like
[ __ ] all this.
>> Even Francis Francis well he had a blown
out knee in that fight.
>> But Francis just like took him down
every round and beat him up.
>> Yeah, man.
>> But that's a different serial. That's a
serial that wasn't concentrating enough
on his grappling and probably never
thought that Francis could employ that
tactic,
>> right?
>> And then really worked with a lot of
wrestlers and try to evolve his game.
And you know,
>> Francis is on that Nate J card as well,
I believe. You know,
>> right? He's fighting Philip Lind at T
guy.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> How good is he?
>> I've never really watched him train that
much. I know he made it to the UFC for a
stint, then he maybe went PFL. I'm not
sure how good he is. Yeah, it's
>> I've seen him at the gym, but I've never
watched him train.
>> Fortunate that there's not another big
name for him to fight. Like, I was
hoping they could get a big name.
>> Bob Sap.
>> I mean, who would be the big name? Like,
who's out heavyweight?
>> Yeah. At heavyweight that's still
talented.
>> No one.
>> Yeah.
>> Heavyweight is the most shallow division
in the sport, period.
>> Kane's out of jail. Get him in shape.
>> Nah. Well, Kane's got crazy back
surgeries and knee surgery and shoulder
surgery. Kane was like too tough for his
own body
>> and all the years of wrestling, man.
>> Mhm.
>> Wear and tear. Wear and tear.
>> Well, also just never giving his body a
break. Just constantly grinding and
pushing. And that's why he was so good.
It's like he just
>> I think in his prime the best. I think
he was the best heavyweight.
>> Well, he was certainly in the argument.
In my mind, it's him and Fedor. But
honorable mention always I give to
Fabricio Verdoom.
>> Fabricio Verdum. People want to think
about losses. Think about peak
performances. Fabricio Verdum tapped
everybody. He tapped all the legends.
Great triangle.
>> He tapped Minotauro, he tapped Fedor,
and he tapped Kane. Like just that, just
that alone, he tapped all the legends.
>> I don't know why he's named it. Like
when I was thinking about heavyweights,
why his name doesn't even want to give
him respect. always put it out there
because
>> the same way I do with BJ Penn because
people for they only want to think about
BJ Penn maybe when he fought Frankie
Edgar or when he fought Yaier Rodriguez.
>> Go back to BJ Penn when he fought Shawn
Sher. Go back to BJ Penn when he fought
Diego Sanchez. That BJ Penn was a
[ __ ]
>> Joe Stevenson.
>> Yes. Joe Daddy Stevenson. You got to
think about the guys when they're in
their prime, when they're at when
they're redlinining for x amount of
years at peak performance. When you're
talking about like all-time greats, I
get it. All-time great. You got to think
about guys like Jon Jones and Kabib who
never lost. They stayed flawless their
entire career. You're right. But for
peak performance, when they were at
their best, how good were they? I put
prime time BJ Penn at 155 against almost
anybody.
>> Yeah, you're right, man.
>> Bro, he was so good and his jiu-jitsu
was so good and he can knock you out and
he was an animal. Just an when he was
training with Marinovich when he went
over there and was like really learning
how to get in insane shape and he would
come there with carrying rocks
underwater and all that [ __ ] Well, I
think the carrying rocks was him.
Marinovich had him doing a lot of like
crazy plyometric stuff and the
Marinovich's strategy was you already
know how to fight. [ __ ] all this
fighting.
>> You know how to fight. What we're going
to do is just give you the most insane
gas tank. So your fight training is like
secondary. What's really important is
just having the most spectacular gas
tank so you never get tired.
>> Yeah.
>> But he hated those camps, man. He hated
it. And he only did it
>> even in the peak of his shape, he was
still a little soft. He was never
shredded. Like
>> he's pretty shredded when he fought Joe
Stevenson. Look at Yeah. He had a
six-pack. He looked good. I mean, he was
It was different, but at 55 it was
different.
>> And everybody's body type's different,
you know.
>> Well, at 70, he was never really a 170,
you know. He was never I mean, he was
much smaller than you. He's a He was
never really a 170. He was just so tough
that he went up to 170 and beat a prime
time Matt Hughes.
>> Yeah. He He stuck around longer than he
should have.
>> He definitely did. He did. And he
definitely fought without training well
sometimes. That's the thing people
remember.
>> Yes. I hate that though.
>> They remember that one fight we fought
on his tippy toes. Remember that fight?
>> Yep. Yep.
>> Like crazy weird [ __ ]
>> But you got to think about him in his
prime. That's what I always say. Don't
look at like Fabricio overdoom.
>> Don't look at all the fights. Look at
the fights when he was in his prime when
he was putting it all together.
>> Fabricio was a nightmare. He was a
nightmare.
>> Like when they hit their stride. That's
that's what I was scared about staying
around the fighting too long. Like I
retired at 36. I'm like
>> perfect. How much more athletic am I
going to get? How much faster am I going
to get? How much, you know, power is the
last thing to go? But durability, speed,
reaction time, everything that I need
like and if I'm not right in line for a
title shot or knocking on the door of
it, like what am I doing,
>> right?
>> I'm fighting just to fight for
>> really crazy. That's when
>> I had to look myself in the mirror, you
know, like, okay, this is it. I'm I'm
going to
>> You did the right thing.
>> Be healthy. Believe what my faculties
for the most part. The age that you
retired was the age that Yoel Romero
entered into the UFC.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Isn't that nuts?
>> Yeah.
>> It really is crazy if you think about it
because that's that's really what And
there's a few outliers out there in the
sport like in boxing. Usyk is the great
outlier. Terrence Crawford is another
great outlier.
>> Dude, what about Usyk and Rico?
>> Crazy.
>> Rico's a super nice guy. I love Rico,
man. Super nice guy. He's a nice guy,
but without leg kicks, the fact that
he's going to just box and he's going to
box maybe the best technical heavyweight
that's ever lived.
>> I don't know, man.
>> I learned I learned my lesson, dude. I
bet $5,000 on Fury.
>> Did you?
>> Yeah.
>> The second fight?
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> Interesting. If anybody can beat him,
it's Tyson Fury. If anybody can beat
Usyk, it's Tyson Fury. Because Tyson
Fury was beating him in the first fight.
He just got clipped. He got clipped in
the I think it was the ninth. He got
really badly hurt. I don't remember what
round it was, but he got really badly
hurt
>> and dropped. But Usyk is just so slick.
>> Yeah, man.
>> His footwork, his movement, he's and the
fact that he's essentially a blown up
cruiserweight and he's beating all these
giant heavyweights like Dubois. Like
Daniel Dubois is terrifying. What he did
to Joshua.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> Just charged forward and just put
[ __ ] leather on his face.
>> Yeah. Rico's a real heavyweight, but
he's not a pure boxer.
>> No. I mean, he can hit hard. I mean,
there's that.
>> But he's such a great kicker. You're
taking a weapon away. It's interesting.
It's a spectacle. I'm watching for sure.
But I just
>> Yeah, I'm sure he's boxed with a lot of
like really elite boxers in the gym.
>> I mean,
>> but over the years, for sure he has.
>> The payday is probably bananas. They're
fighting in Giza
>> in front of the pyramids.
>> Nuts.
>> Crazy.
>> Who's putting this together? Who put
that together?
>> I have no idea.
>> Yeah. Aliens.
>> Aliens.
>> That's where they're going to land.
Do they need to do a coliseum fight? MMA
or or boxing where they set it up either
in the coliseum or right in front, you
know? That would be crazy.
>> Well, they were talking about doing that
with Elon Musk and Mark Zuckerberg. They
>> were talking about that in the coliseum.
>> A real fight.
>> I know. That's so crazy,
>> dude. That would be so crazy. Have those
guys be the first fight in the
>> Do that one at Meta Headquarters or
something. Don't do that at the
coliseum. Don't disrespect the
>> Don't disrespect the coliseum. No. No.
>> I know. That's silly. So, where who's
live at the Pyramids of Giza? WBC World
Heavyweight Championship. The zone. But
like I wonder who the promoter is.
>> WBC. I don't
>> Is that their faces? That's so
ridiculous. Look at their [ __ ] with
their circular golden gloves on. Glory
and Giza.
>> It's gonna be interesting, man. I'm
excited about it.
>> I wonder who's gonna buy that.
>> How much is that gonna cost? I'm gonna
buy it. But I mean I mean how many
people are gonna buy that?
>> You know what I mean?
>> Like I'm gonna buy it because it's I
love Rico. I've had Rico on the show. I
mean think he's the greatest heavyweight
kickboxer of all time.
>> For sure. I I feel like the way combat
sports has kind of intertwined all
different stuff. Boxing, MMA, how big
mixed martial arts is now, you're going
to get a lot of cross crossover. Before
you'd get a lot of hardcore boxing fans
buying this pay-per-view, but now you're
kind of going to get a little bit of
everything. Kickboxing, MMA boxing fans.
Glory has such a small audience
unfortunately and this was the you know
this is the argument that Dana said to
me about kickboxing in America that they
tried with Glory. I just don't think
they got the right promotion. I think if
the UFC was
>> I mean it's non-stop action. It's
highlights the whole time.
>> Why wouldn't
>> I feel like if the UFC got behind
kickboxing in America it could be
gigantic. Especially kickboxing with MMA
gloves like that Gazalia guy was
fighting in the octagon. You know how
[ __ ] gigantic that would be?
>> Yeah.
>> Or Yuki Yoza. There's another guy
Masata Enori.
>> There's a bunch of guys. There's a bunch
of guys that are like really elite that
are fighting.
>> Yeah. Oh, a bunch, man. A lot. Lot lot.
>> Yeah. Masaki Nori. Um, uh, Usyk open to
fighting Jon Jones in crossover MMA
fight. What? Wait. Okay, now you got me
interested,
>> dude.
>> If the UFC comes up with the cheddar,
>> he better start wrestling now.
>> Yeah, you better start wrestling.
>> Wrestling right now.
>> Is that real? Did he say that?
Rico is first. Second is whoever wins
between Wardley and Dubois. And the
third fight is my friend Greedy Belly
Tyson Fury. So, he's not a rematch with
Dubois is a tough cell. He just starched
him. The Tyson Fury fight is the big
fight because Tyson Fury is the only guy
that in my eyes makes sense. Says a
fight with Jake Paul and MMA at this
stage is not being considered, but we're
always open to creative and interesting
collaborations in the future. If we were
talking about crossover fights, a very
interesting matchup could be against Jon
Jones in the United States.
>> Whoa.
>> I don't know what Jon's going to do,
man. With all the stuff going on with
the UFC, he might be done. He might Who
knows?
>> He doesn't want to be done. Um, I know
he got stem cells on his hip. Um, I know
because I helped him get it. He got it
over at uh he's talked about it. I
wouldn't have talked about it, but he
talked about it. Um, he got it at Wasted
Well,
>> and so uh he he's feeling a lot better.
He does have arthritis in his hip. It
bothers him, but it doesn't bother him
enough where he can't fight.
>> And you know, he's the greatest of all
time, period.
>> I did stem cells and PRP in my hip. I
didn't notice anything from that. Well,
it really depends on where you're
getting the stem cells, what technology
they're using. There's a bunch of
different kinds of stem cells. Talk to
Brigham that. He can explain it to you.
>> I got maybe one.
>> But you had a labum tear, right? It was
pretty significant.
>> Yeah. And I had to get the head of my
femur reshaped, like a resurfacing. It
was kind of eggshaped and didn't need
need to be rounded. So, it tore
everything off the inside of my hip.
>> So, how do they do that?
>> They take your leg out of socket. They
they shave the top rounded and then they
micro they put like a bunch of small
holes in it to where it cracks and then
stem cells leak out of your body to
create a new surface out of your bone.
>> How long did that take to recover from?
>> I couldn't put pressure on it for eight
weeks.
>> Wow.
>> Yeah. Cuz it's like
>> So you're just walking around on one leg
for two
>> crunches. Yeah.
>> And then once you start walking on it,
how weird was it? Very weird because I
had to sleep in like a a motion machine
where my leg wouldn't stop moving at
night.
>> Oh my god.
>> Cuz your hip capsule is like tricky. If
you if it heals up too tight, your leg
won't have any any range of motion at
all. So while it's healing, you need to
be in perpetual motion, I guess.
>> That's crazy.
>> And every week they would send a new
code for my wife to type in the machine
and it would be a little bit different
angle.
>> Whoa.
>> Yeah. So my my
>> What a nightmare.
>> For those eight weeks, I was sleeping in
this metal brace that moved my leg all
night. How did you sleep?
>> It was horrible cuz it went up to like
your your junk in inside your leg and
the outside of your leg. So, it's like
you had a wedgie by this machine and
your legs just motion all night.
>> Oh my god.
>> Yeah, it sucked, man.
>> That's terrifying.
>> But it I'm fine now. It healed up good.
>> That's crazy that it worked.
>> Yeah.
>> Wow.
>> Resurfacing.
>> Whoa.
>> The guy actually who did it in Veil,
Colorado invented the surgery. GSPs had
hip surgery there.
>> Really?
>> Yeah. He invented this surgery
>> and GSP had to do the same [ __ ]
>> I don't know if he had exactly what I
had, but he he had surgery there on his
hip.
>> God, that sounds like two months of no
sleeping.
>> How'd you sleep? Did you get used to it?
>> Well, the first week with pain medicine
and stuff you're on all that stuff. It
was after like when I stopped taking all
that
>> pain medicine must have been fun.
>> Triple Z, dude. I was having dreams and
getting the best sleep of my life. Yeah,
that's a time where it makes sense to
take that [ __ ] like you're in a [ __ ]
crazy brace. Let's party.
>> Yeah, for sure.
>> Let's watch Netflix and not give a [ __ ]
about my leg moving.
>> Sleeping in this machine hamster wheel
>> for real.
>> Whatever the hell's happening with my
leg, right?
>> I was on one of those when I got my knee
reconstructed.
>> You had a bunch of knee surgeries. Yeah,
but my left knee uh they put I had um
patella tendon graft and they put me on
one of them things where it does this
like when I was in the hospital and
morphine drip so you could press the
button to get more morphine. I was like
boink boink boink boink dude just lying
there.
>> I had the same thing on my hip.
>> They they put an epidural and then they
had a nerve block through my stomach. So
I was like completely paralyzed from the
waist down
>> but I had the button thing. I don't
think it was working anymore cuz I
>> I I revved it.
It was
>> he redlined.
>> It was shooting blanks, man.
>> That's hilarious. It is weird though to
see your like knee constantly moving
forward, but I only had to do it like a
couple of nights. I can't imagine.
>> I did it for weeks.
>> I can't imagine. That must have been so
hard to sleep, man.
>> Yeah. The motion wasn't so bad cuz it's
kind of slow.
>> Oh, okay.
>> It was the metal in my groin.
>> Oh, yeah. It probably rubbed it raw and
[ __ ] Oh, god.
>> Yeah, man.
>> [ __ ] man. But I, like I said, I was on
the pain medicine. So,
>> it's crazy that it all worked though.
>> Yeah.
>> Shout out to that doctor. Shout out to
all these doctors. I say that all the
time. Like, both my knees would be
[ __ ] completely useless if it wasn't
for amazing doctors,
>> right?
>> Shout out to these guys figuring [ __ ]
out.
>> Uh, I worked with Paul Felder at that
Vegas show and uh he just had a hip
replacement.
>> Yeah, he had the real deal, right?
>> So, yeah. No, he had a replacement
replacement.
>> Why did he have to do that versus what
you did?
>> I'm not sure exactly. It's something to
do with the spacing, I think, inside
your hip. How much spacing you have?
>> Cuz my spacing was good. I wasn't a
candidate for a replacement.
>> Well, Paul went full nutty after he
stopped fighting and started doing Iron
Man's.
>> Yeah, dude. He was telling me he travels
with a bicycle. He does like
>> still does that
>> cycling for 5 hours like in a hotel room
like crazy.
>> That's not good. That's not healthy.
>> Crazy, man.
>> That's unhealthy.
>> Yeah.
>> Why you doing that, Paul?
>> Five hours he told me. Well, the same
kind of drive that made him a great MMA
fighter made him want to like be the
best Iron Man dude in the world.
>> You need something like that, man.
>> Way before the surgeries a couple years
ago when he first got
>> diagnosed, I guess, with some injury.
>> Yeah. So, range of motion my right hip.
Reached out to Dr. D from the UFC to
help with an MRI. Long story short, I
have the hips of an 80-year-old man. No
soft tissue left. Grinding bone on bone.
The problem is once they put a
artificial joint in you, you have that
artificial joint forever. They're never
it's never going back. Yeah.
>> And as biologics get better and stem
cells get better, they're they're better
and better at rehealing or healing that
that actual tissue. And if you could
just hang in there, like this is the
kind of the conversation that I had with
John because if you could just hang in
there, they're so close. They're
injecting stuff into discs now and
making the discs larger,
>> right?
>> So, like people with back problems where
the doctor's like, "Look, we got to take
some of your disc out." No, hang in
there. Hang. And also look into other
therapies. Decompression. There's a lot
of different things that you could do
that can create space where your, you
know, disc is pushing against your
nerves. You can alleviate a lot of that.
>> Surgery is the absolute last,
>> especially with your back. Absolutely.
Especially with your back. Look, if you
have a blood, of course, they're going
to cut you up. They'll do it anytime.
Yes. You know, it's good business. Cut
you open. Then the
>> the medicines, this the hardware,
everything. It's a it's a it's a racket.
That's the last step.
>> That's the problem. When when you have a
hammer, everything looks like a nail.
>> And you know, and when doctors get paid
for doing surgery, they want to do
surgery because that's where they make
their living,
>> right?
>> And it's uh it's a real problem with
stuff like the back because I don't know
anybody that's had a back surgery and
been better,
>> right? You know, the only big one I
could think of, I remember Nate Quarry
was a big advocate for some company.
Remember, he had a
>> he had an artificial spacer. Yeah. He
had artificial discs put in his back way
back in the day.
>> Yeah. He's the guy I think about back
surgery.
>> But he also like got it was an intense
pain because of that. And I think it
wound up like becoming a problem later
on. Like I know guys that initially had
some relief because of back surgery and
then it started getting way worse after
that and then follow-ups.
>> Always the same story like
>> same thing with necks like you lose
strength. It's always bothered you for
the rest of your life. Like Mike Brown
has a fusion where they went in through
the front.
>> Fusions are rough.
>> My buddy Alan Joban had a neck surgery
where they Kayla Harrison just had one.
Like once you have that something
>> What did Kayla have done?
>> I don't know exactly. I don't think
she's telling anybody.
>> I know that. I'm pretty sure they went
in through the front,
>> right? But I don't think she's telling
anybody what exactly happened because
like look, Almaine had a disc replaced
and he came back and beat Pota Yan in
the rematch and looked [ __ ] great and
fought really well with that neck issue.
>> And you don't hear him complaining about
it.
>> No, I mean he said it's great.
>> I think that that the new artificial
discs that they're putting in the necks,
a lot of them it works out really well.
I know quite a few people that have had
those.
>> I've been fortunate, man. I haven't had
any neck. She had a repair repair
hernated discs in her neck, right?
So, the thing is what they usually do is
just take some of the the disc out and
then you have less disc. So, it's not
bulging anymore, but you have less disc
now. So, now you have more degenerative
disc issues. And
>> I just think there's other options. And
one of the options is decompression. I
don't know if anybody ran that by her,
but I have a [ __ ] neck harness that I
I It's attached to a chin-up bar and I
put it around my neck. It straps under
my chin and I put my weight on it. I
just like stretch my neck out.
>> It works,
>> you know. Relieve. I hear it pop like
pop.
>> She says they replace the disc.
>> Oh, she had to replace. Okay. So, so she
got that thing that Al Jermaine got
done. Yeah. How is she going to fight
that quickly?
Look at that.
>> I wonder what her turnaround time is. I
mean, international fight week. Maybe
her her and Amanda.
>> Well, she's fighting, isn't she? She was
supposed to be fighting at the White
House, right?
>> Yeah. Yeah. But her and Amanda were
supposed to
>> They decided not to do that. Yeah.
>> So, maybe this summer
>> maybe
>> cuz it's going to be I mean that's a big
fight her and Amanda.
>> It's a big fight, but I mean
there's a possibility that you do
something like that and you're never the
same again. So, she might never surgery.
Yeah.
>> Yeah. It's like you're whenever you're
dealing with your spine, it's very
tricky.
>> Yeah.
>> You know, it's just one of those things.
It's like
>> shoulders, knees.
>> Mhm.
>> There's some things, man, you don't want
to injure.
>> I don't think anybody's ever come back
from a knee replacement and fought MMA.
I've never heard of that.
>> I've heard of disc replacements. I've
heard of a lot of knee surgeries. Guys
come back.
>> But Desus Buakus was the worst. Remember
that? He fought Khalil and Khil
sidekicked his knee sideways
>> and he hyperextended it. Oh, it went
sideways.
>> John does that knee stomp thing, too.
>> I don't I don't know how I feel about
that, man.
>> Well, Ian Garry did it to Shavcott.
>> I don't know how I feel about
>> [ __ ] Shavcott's knee up.
>> I know. It's kind of [ __ ] because
look, yes, it's effective, but so is
>> eye pokes.
>> I feel like it's what I was about to
say. I feel like it's kind of dirty.
Like legalize eye pokes.
>> It is dirty. I mean, so are nutshots.
Like nut shots are effective, too. Are
we going to allow those? No. I mean, why
are we allowing someone to do a
technique that you
>> We do have 12 to six elbows now, so
that's at least we're getting somewhere.
>> Yeah, I like that. Yeah,
>> but I'd rather have knees to a grounded
opponent than kicking the knee sideways.
>> It just seems like
>> it takes a year off of your career at
least.
>> So can a knee bar. So can an arm bar.
Like
>> Yeah, you could tap.
>> True, true, true, true.
>> You get a knee bar, you can tap. Inside
heel hooks the scariest cuz you only got
a couple of like micro seconds to tap.
When you get that one, that one's so
nasty. The knee across. You have no
time. You just got to tap.
>> Yeah.
>> You just got to know when you're done.
You got to know when he got you and not
let it Did you ever see when Mike
Musumichi fought some cat in uh
>> I think I think I know what you're
talking about.
>> And the dude would not tap.
>> He was just ripping his knee apart and
Mikey was talking about it afterwards.
He was like, "It was so gross." I was
like, "Why did you make me do that to
you?"
>> Right.
>> Why didn't you just tap? He mangled that
guy's legs. I think I saw a highlight of
that.
>> It was horrible. It's so horrible to
watch.
>> You got it? Yeah. Show me.
>> Yeah. Let's see this.
>> Here it is. Like, look at this. Look at
his leg, bro. Bro. Bro. That is almost
as nasty as watching that armbar or that
guillotine
from Dan Miller. Look at this.
This dude won't tap. It's so crazy. And
Mikey is just a master at destroying
your knees. Any normal human being would
have tapped.
>> Yeah. Yeah, for sure.
>> And he does this like seven times in
this match where he rips this guy's leg
sideways, left ways, right ways. The
guy's knees destroyed.
Like look at that. Look how nasty this
is, man. This is so nasty.
>> Look how right there. That angle's so
awful. The fact that this dude is just
tolerating it like right there. That's
destroyed. That is destroyed.
I don't know if that dude ever competed
again afterwards.
>> He might never be the same.
>> No, it'll not be the same. It won't be
the same. It won't be. It'll never be
100%. Like you get your [ __ ] ripped
apart like that for sure. There's some
meniscus miniscus, MCL, everything. [ __ ]
that. Heel hooks that changed.
>> I've been fortunate, man, with my knees.
I have a torn meniscus in my right knee,
but never needed surgery, you know. Had
a partial tear on my ACL when I fought
Islam. He pulled me off against the
fence and my knee slid and I felt it
tear. It felt like fire in my knee, you
know, and when you feel pain in a fight,
you know it's bad cuz you usually don't,
>> right?
>> But I felt it burning like fire. Um,
>> but you didn't need surgery.
>> Didn't need surgery. Did a bunch of
physical therapy. Uh, I had a partial
tear. There's something called maybe a
ligamentum or something that connects
where your ACL is. Every time you tear
your ACL, the ligamentum's completely
torn
>> always. And uh, mine had a partial tear
in that. So, I must have took the weight
off or we switched a position right
before it tore my ACL. Oh
>> yeah, but I had like bruising, you know,
back of my leg was all bruised up.
Couldn't bend it for a little bit,
>> but now it's 100%.
>> Yeah, I feel great.
>> Yeah, that's interesting. Like, um,
Arnold, no. Who was it that was telling
me that? Like there's different people
that have had different levels of tears.
And then in those levels of tears, like
some of them you can come back from
100%. But some of them,
okay, this dude,
>> a broken ankle, too.
>> Oh my god. So this dude that try saying
his name.
>> How do you say his name?
>> Gentimer
>> enduran. Um so this is the guy Mikey
Musumichi. He was torn ACL, torn MCL,
torn meniscus, and a broken ankle.
>> That's crazy. That's crazy.
>> He did like a toe hold or something.
How'd he break his ankle?
>> So was it Oh, was it Brendan Allen? Was
Brendan Allen was in the podcast. He was
telling me this. He tore his ACL
completely and never got it fixed and it
reattached.
>> Wow.
>> Yeah. Like at a slightly different angle
but reattached. Like it tore off but it
was still hanging in there and it
rehealed.
>> Uhhuh.
>> I was like that's nut. I never even
heard of that before. But I know some
people that have had like a 3/4 tear and
it heals but it's not really the same.
Right.
>> It's still a little funky. You know Brad
Picket fought his whole career with the
torn. No ACL in one of his legs. I think
Justin has that situation.
>> Like Brad would sit on the ground on the
mat and then grab his shin and slide it
forward and you could see like the the
mo the movement.
>> How does that not chew your meniscus up?
>> He fought so many fights like that.
>> Oh my. Well, Rico Rodriguez did, too.
Rico always had a blown out ACL.
>> Huh.
>> And he fought
>> Rico was down in Louisiana for a while,
man. Rico Rodriguez was
>> Well, he was one of the first Brazilian
jiu-jitsu black belts.
>> I trained with him at Tim's gym before.
>> Yeah, he's he was really good on the
ground, man. Rico was really good on the
ground and he was a UFC heavyweight
champion at one point in time.
>> I know
>> people forget,
>> dude. I didn't even know who he was. I
was sparring him and Tim was like,
"That's crazy."
>> Was a heavyweight champion of the UFC.
Like, no way.
>> I know. Ain't that funny?
>> He was out of shape, you know? I was
like, "Who's this big tattooed guy?
Let's go."
>> There's a lot of guys that people forgot
they they slept on. It's interesting
when you think about that.
>> He was running a gym in Baton Rouge,
Louisiana. I don't know if he still is.
>> Was Yeah. He had partnered with U
>> in Baton Rouge.
>> In Baton Rouge, Louisiana. He took over
in LA boxing. They they turned it into a
UFC gym now, but he was part owner or
something. He was running it.
>> Wow.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. It's a hard road when guys retire
and people don't even remember them.
Like at least you you have a giant name.
Like you're always going to be able to
do seminars. You always people are
always going to want to bring you into
events. You you have a career no matter
what.
>> Yeah. I've been doing a lot of watch
parties where I get with the fans and
watch the fights. It's fun, man. I enjoy
it.
>> That's cool. It's sometimes a little
awkward because the fans will stick
around too long. Like I'm watching the
fights with you, but you come sit at my
booth and like we run out of things to
talk about. It's like, "Okay,
>> hey man, let me get your number." Like,
"Hey, bro."
>> Oh, hey, my buddy's on FaceTime. Can you
talk to so and so? Like, dude, just
chill.
>> I know some people just can't hang,
>> dude. But I fought, like I said, 19 year
I say 20, but it's 19 years that I
fought until that Connor fight like
that's when things changed for me
recognition wise. Yeah.
>> Wow. That's interesting. That's crazy
because
>> like the door opened for seminars, for
appearances. That's that changed
changed.
>> That's so weird.
>> And I had been in so many UFC main
events. I had fought for the belt, done
all this stuff. But this that guy's
name, man.
>> Isn't it nuts? A just personality got
him. So well, obviously very skilled.
>> The Eddie Alvarez fight, that's to
Connor in his prime form when he was in
the
>> Aldo. Yes,
>> Eddie. The the Aldo fight was great, but
because it was one shot and he's
>> and and nobody's done that to Aldo ever,
>> ever. Ever. And since
>> that was amazing, but but the Alvarez
fight was him in the Matrix when the
punches were literally touching his nose
and he's firing back those combinations.
He was just in the zone.
>> He was That was Eddie's Conor.
>> Walk in the park, you know.
>> No, Eddie's good, man. Tough as [ __ ]
When Eddie beat um uh Dos Anjos, I was
like, "Holy [ __ ] man."
>> I was always a big Eddie fan.
>> Oh, you
fights with Chandler. You want to talk
about taking years off your life?
>> Those fights that those two had that
nobody was watching
>> other than the hardcore guys, those were
to this day I tell people, you want to
watch some chaos, watch Eddie Alvarez
and Michael Chandler in Bellator.
They're some of the best fights of all.
Knock down drag out both guys.
>> If you're a fan of chaos, watch those
fights. Those fights were [ __ ]
bananas.
>> And so that's what we anticipated when
Chandler came over and then we knocked
out Dan Hooker in the first round. I was
like, "Oh [ __ ] he's here."
>> Same card, same card as me, and Connor.
>> But I think that it was too late. I
think we he had already suffered so much
punishment and been so if we got a hold
of Michael Chandler like six, seven
years before that when he was fighting
in Bellator. This is the problem with
PFL. This is the problem with Bellator
and I don't think it's a problem because
I think these guys are prize fighters,
you know, like I think Francis and Godo
said it best when he was talking about
this Netflix card. They're saying
someone said to him, "Do you think this
is this [ __ ] with your legacy?" He
goes, "Legacy? Whose legacy for you?" He
goes, "Fuck, keep your legacy. Give me
my money,
>> right?
>> Give me my pay. This is what I'm
supposed to be getting. I'm I'm Francis
Enano." And I think he's right.
>> But he's Francis Enano. He's already the
UFC heavyweight champion. Left as the
UFC heavyweight champion.
>> But for a lot of these guys that are
starting their career, their best years
are in these other organizations and not
enough people know. Like Johnny Evelyn,
perfect example you were talking about
before. He knocked out Leon Edwards
brother. I mean, he's [ __ ] good, man.
I cornered him when he beat Masi. Dude,
Masi
>> Masi is a legend.
>> Grew up watching him. A legend.
>> Yeah, there's a guy, another one. Good
guy that people forgot about. Gagegar
Mousasi was a [ __ ]
>> By the time he made it to the UFC, I was
already such a big fan, but like the
casuals didn't know who he was.
>> Oh, he was so good, dude. Gagegar was so
good. So smart,
>> right?
>> Just so smart and so t and unassuming.
>> Was it him who up kicked Jakare back?
Yeah. Into a triangle. Yep.
>> Yeah, man.
>> Yep. Yeah. I think that was in Dream.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Gagegar was a beast,
man. He was a beast.
>> Eddie Eddie Alvarez and Dream was bunch
of good fights, man.
>> Gagegard stopped Wideman in the UFC.
>> Really good fundamental boxing, great
jab.
>> Yeah, great everywhere.
>> Yeah, good wrestling, good def wrestling
defense, but
>> just super smart, too. Just a very, very
intelligent guy.
>> He got put on the shelf with that
Bellator deal.
>> He got put on the shelf. And I don't
know what's going on with him. When was
the last game last fought?
>> He might even still be under contract
with the with PFL or whatever.
>> Well, I think he's 40 now.
>> Yeah, he was old in the UFC.
>> Yeah, he's got to be close to 40, if not
older.
>> Where where's Gagegard Mousasi these
days?
>> Uh oh, he got drafted in the Global
Fight League that got cancelled, I
think.
>> Oh, that thing.
>> I knew that was a gonna fall apart from
the jump.
>> That thing was weird. When I was talking
to coaches at American Top Team and they
were telling me like all these ex UFC
fighters what their contracts were with
this company, I was like, "Dude, they
haven't even put on one show and they're
signing guys to these kind of
contracts." I mean, the money was crazy.
>> So 2023 was his last fight. How old is
he now?
>> So you lost to Fabian Edwards, the same
guy that Evelyn knocked out.
>> 40.
>> 40.
>> Yeah. Cornered Evelyn.
>> Dream catcher
>> in that fight, dude. He got cut so bad
with an elbow. Like I can see the vein
in this. I have it in my phone. It was
crazy. I have it in my phone. The vein's
still intact. It didn't cut the vein,
but you can see it.
>> Oh, boy.
>> Oh, it's pretty pretty gnarly.
>> And then he stopped him.
>> Yeah. Elbow.
>> That was We were in Ireland.
>> Yeah, Evelyn's a tough guy, man. And I
think he's like one of those guys that's
like at the very top of the heap at 185,
but again, I know about him, but how
many people do?
>> That's unfortunate.
>> Yeah.
>> You know, because he's been fighting NFL
for how many how many years now?
>> Well, he was Bellator.
>> Bellator and they bought him for how
many years now?
>> A long time. I mean, I think he might
have had one or two fights when Bellator
signed him. He got in early at Bellator,
>> but he's a student, man. He's going to
keep getting better. He's pretty young.
Young young still.
>> Submitting Mark Hunt's crazy.
>> That's crazy, right? You think how small
he is. He's fought at 185 in the UFC and
he submitted 260 pound Mark Hunt.
Gagegard Mu Mousasi was a [ __ ] beast.
>> He was a beast.
>> Just technique. Yep.
>> Just technique.
>> Technique, toughness, and intelligence.
Just so crafty. just so good everywhere.
Good on the ground, good standing up,
>> and super patient, man. Methodical.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. I've always been a fan of him.
>> There's a lot of those guys that just
got people forget about. They forgot,
you know.
>> Yeah. A bunch.
>> I always say people, one guy that people
underestimated because they didn't get
to see him when he was in his prime or
they just forgot is Mazvidal.
>> People forgot how good Mazvidal is.
Mazdall knocked out Eve Edwards with a
headkick. Remember that in Bodog?
>> Yep.
>> Yeah, bro. Mazvidol in his prime was a
[ __ ]
He was good when he knocked out Darren
Till. You remember that [ __ ]
>> That switch step or
>> Oh my god.
>> Yeah, of course.
>> Switch step. I think he caught him with
a left hook.
>> Knocked him out in cold
>> cold head.
>> And he was a dog. Like when he started
focusing on his wrestling, he was a dog
in strike force, man, at 55. Like he
>> Oh, yeah.
>> He was a dog back then.
>> No, Midall was a beast, man.
>> And he's good everywhere, man. He's good
everywhere. He has good jiu-jitsu, good
wrestling, good kickboxing. Yeah,
>> he's good everywhere.
>> I mean, when he went up to 170, that's
not really his weight class. His real
weight class was 55.
>> Yeah, but I think as he got older, he
he's a big guy. He's a big guy. He has
really thick legs and he's a little bit
taller.
>> Taller than me, for sure. But
>> but like when he was really competitive,
I feel like it was at 55.
>> Yeah.
>> But I mean, like, he gave guys problems
at 70. Like the the Darren Hill fight
was at 70.
>> He [ __ ] a lot of guys up at 70.
>> Cowboy.
>> Yep. Cowboy. Was that at 70?
>> Body shot 170.
>> Damn. Yeah. No, Mazda. People forgot
there's people and then you know he was
having those backyard fights in the
Kimbo slice days.
>> Y
>> which is crazy.
>> The bare knuckle Kimbo fights. Kimbo
slice fights.
>> Yeah, man. Kimbo used to come to
American Top Team. Used to bring his
kids and stuff. It was crazy talking to
him cuz I grew up watching his fights,
you know.
>> Well, he was like the first guy to
become a legend on YouTube.
>> Yeah.
>> You know,
>> everybody knows who he is.
>> Plus, he looks so cool with the bald
head and the beard and the hair in the
back. Like everything was crazy. the
braids in the van.
>> Yeah. Super jacked
>> and just [ __ ] people up in the
backyard.
>> Yeah.
>> Like they were moving around like dishes
and [ __ ]
>> A bodyguard or a driver for a guy in
Miami who started a porn company and
that's how it started.
>> Exactly.
>> And they organized these fights
>> where they would just no warm up just
all right let's go.
>> Get out the car in the front front
driveway and walk to the back and just
start scrapping.
>> I know. It was crazy. But as a kid, like
when that stuff came out as a kid, that
was such a big thing to watch, you know,
that we had to download it illegally on
like Lime Wire or something back then.
Yeah. You know,
>> that was wild times. And then to see him
in the UFC in the Ultimate Fighter,
dude, what a journey that guy had.
>> I know what balls it took for him to do
that to enter into the UFC with like
basically zero grappling.
>> Yeah.
>> And like really just kind of learning
the sport, but you know, so
>> good boxing, but I don't think like gym,
not trained boxing, just natural ability
and
>> Well, he definitely had some training,
right? The way he moved was even in the
bare knuckle, the way he moved was like
a boxer shell, you know?
>> Yeah.
>> Like a Mike Tyson movement.
>> Yeah. But it was like kind of
rudimentary. Remember when he fought
Seth Petraelli?
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. Like last minute Petraelli comes
in last minute like Ken Shamrock had
some sort of a dispute with them and
maybe got cut backstage or something
instead of had a cut. And so like last
minute they swapped out Seth Petraelli
>> and he knocked him out.
>> Yeah. I called that one. I called that
one camera.
>> No, I wasn't doing it the commentary. I
think it was Elite XC.
>> I think that bankrupt them or something.
I don't know how like they
>> that fight bankrupt them.
>> I don't know if it bankrupted them, but
after that happened, they didn't have
many more shows after that.
>> Well, I think they were going under
anyway, unfortunately.
>> Yeah. I don't know how that fight would
have bankrupt him, but
>> Well, they had some guy was a boxing guy
who was running the whole thing. Was his
name Gary Shaw?
>> I don't I don't know back then.
>> I don't remember either. But I you know,
like it's hard to make money in these
things, man. Like those things are hard.
They cut like the UFC doesn't get the
credit deserves in terms of the
promotional machine. Like that's a
smooth running machine.
>> Oh yeah.
>> That machine's been around for a long
time. It's so polished between the
production, all the guys in the truck,
the directors, the producers.
>> Oh, they're the best of the best.
>> Yeah, they're the best. It's hard. And
then you got all the best fighters and
it's like the product. So when they have
a fight like Holloway and and Olivea and
like, oh, this fight wasn't good. Like
that's a great fight, man. It's just you
you can't be a casual.
>> People are just bloodthirsty.
>> Yeah. You know, like this. Listen, to do
that to Max Holloway is crazy. Do you
not appreciate that? Go watch baseball.
Wrestlers, great grapplers have never
done that to him.
>> I know. It's nuts. It's nuts if you
think about it.
>> Yeah. It's exciting, man. The UFC is
definitely the best at it. With this
whole Paramount thing, I was kind of
We'll see how it turns out. But I was
kind of worried like if you take
pay-per-view off the table.
>> Mhm.
>> How much are is UFC going to put the
biggest fights together because they
don't need to sell pay-per-views?
They're guaranteed money,
>> you know? I was just wondering if that
would not water it down, but we would
get a bunch of weaker cards. And I'm
still waiting to find out, man.
>> Well, it is weird, right? Because with
pay-per-view, you're always building it
up so people buy it. And then also
points, like the fighters get paid
points. So, how are fighters getting
paid now? I've been asking every show I
at work. I ask everybody. I want to know
cuz I've, you know, my last few years in
the UFC, I was
>> Nobody's telling you.
>> Nobody's telling me anything.
>> They're keeping you in the dark.
>> Keeping me in the dark.
>> What the [ __ ] is that?
>> Keeping me in the dark, man.
>> Cuz, you know, I was pay-per-view
partner multiple fights with the UFC.
>> If there's And that was always the thing
they kind of in in in discussion about
contracts and about future fights that
they kind of held over you like, right,
>> you win this fight, one day you're going
to fight for the belt, you're going to
get pay-per-view, your life's going to
change. That was always a carrot they
hung like to make, you know, to do
anything to that was the goal to one day
fight for the belt and get the
pay-per-view money.
>> But now that that's gone, I mean,
Conor's not going to fight. Even Justin
at the White House, there's no way these
guys aren't fighting with that backdoor
money.
>> Mhm.
>> So, they must be just guaranteeing him a
bigger per. I don't know.
>> Well, I think Justin would fight no
matter what because it's for the title.
This is his last fight.
>> Well, that Yeah, the title. The title.
>> The title. It's at the White House. He's
a patriot. It's the last fight. you
know, I think he would fight no matter
what. But like, you know, Ronda Rousey,
uh, you know, she's promoting the
Netflix fight and she made I don't know
if you saw what she said, but she had
this big long speech about the UFC
selling for $7 billion. These fighters
aren't making enough money. And you
know, look, she made some good points
and the most important thing is that she
gets the conversation out there and it
puts pressure on the UFC to pay people
more, you know, and if Netflix can
become successful at MMA, if they can
become successful putting cards together
and pulling fighters away, like right
now they're doing a one-off, right? It's
oneoff and it's kind of a gimmicky
thing.
>> And listen, this payroll is going to be
crazy.
>> It's going to be crazy.
>> You got Ronda, Francis, Nate, these
everybody's getting
>> crazy money. the payroll is going to be
nuts.
>> But if anybody's got that kind of money,
it's Netflix. They throw around a lot of
ridiculous money. They make so much
money.
>> So they can kind of do that. The
question is, are they going to do that
more than once? So if they do that more
than once, then what happens is it's all
about the name of the fighters just like
boxing. Like if boxing, no one cares if
it's Golden Boy or Bob Arum. Nobody
cares about that. What they care about
is who's fighting who. Is it Benvitz?
Who's he fighting? Is he fighting Bval?
Let's go. That's a great fight. So, if
if Netflix can kind of do the boxing
thing on Netflix with like bigname
stars, they could be a major player and
that will elevate everybody's pay scale.
So, as is a lot of people like, "Oh,
Rhonda, how could you turn her back on
the UFC and talk [ __ ] like that?"
>> You if she's what she's saying doesn't
make any sense, she can't say it. Right.
So, if what she's saying makes sense,
then you have to go, she's got a point.
>> Yeah. She's got a point. She's got a
point. They sold it for $7 billion or
whatever it is. They got this billion7
billion deal, whatever the [ __ ] deal
was with Paramount, not even selling it.
Sold rights to it. Right?
>> That makes sense. She's making sense.
And so if she's saying this and Netflix
listens and if someone comes along and
they're a shrewd businessman, they go,
"Look, there's a lot of people their
contracts are coming up and when these
people's contracts are coming up, let's
get into negotiations." And then all a
sudden some people start drifting over.
Yeah. So if like you get like an Islam
Maka who starts leaving and they leave
and go fight in Netflix and then they
can talk four or five top major
contenders into doing look it's a big
ask.
>> Look I love the UFC.
>> Spent my most of my professional career
there but I love seeing these other
organizations come up and people making
money. It like you said it rises every
everything. It's more places for people
to work you know. It's it's great. It's
only good.
>> Olivier Alba Mercier made a million
dollars in the PFL.
>> Yeah. And uh I think he may did it more
than once, right? Didn't he win the
tournament twice or something like that?
>> I'm not sure.
>> He definitely won it at least once. So
like the Canadian gangster,
>> right? A guy who's not in the top 10 of
the UFC goes over to another
organization, makes a million dollars.
Okay. I don't know if that's sustainable
for them. I don't know how they came up
with that money.
>> They got to be bleeding money out.
>> They have to be bleeding money. Nobody's
watching
>> for or even guys like Pettis who was a
former world champion who you know his
contract was good in the UFC
>> right
>> didn't chose not to resign with the UFC
and he went to PFL they had to be paying
him big money
>> they have to be
>> you know
>> so it's all competition ultimately is
good for the most important thing which
is paying the fighters
>> so I'm happy
>> and places to work like if the UFC cuts
you or something you back you know
>> 10 years ago that's the only place to
make money
>> right
>> they cut you now you got to get a job
maybe
try to get back in parttime fighting
like try to get, you know, now you can
pivot and still have a career.
>> Well, this is the thing with Francis.
When Francis left the PFL, everybody's
like, well, now he's [ __ ] because he
can't fight in the UFC. Can't like I
wanted him to come back in the UFC. And
I was like, come on. Can we figure out a
way to make this happen? But Dana just
does not want to have anything to do
with him. Like apparently they did not
get along very well,
>> which is like I'm like, come on. Yeah.
>> I don't Come can I help? Can I [ __ ]
get you guys in a room together and
[ __ ] calm everybody down?
>> But at the most important thing is
>> he's still a guy I want to watch.
>> Oh yeah.
>> He's still a guy I want to watch.
>> I mean, he's the legit heavyweight
champion if you think about it. He never
got beat in MMA as a heavyweight
champion,
>> you know, and then he fought Hen Ferrer
uh in
>> PFL.
>> Yeah,
>> it's another ATT guy.
>> But it's another one where it's like,
who's watching that? I mean, and if
you're watching it, you're just watching
it. Me and you.
>> Yeah. Like I mean I want to know like
what were the numbers for that fight? It
was probably the biggest fight they ever
put on.
>> I don't think I've ever seen any numbers
from PFL
>> and I think like the CR he was like
getting 20 million a fight and he wanted
his opponents to get a huge amount too.
I forget what the he like a minimum
amount his opponents would get in his
contract.
>> Respect. I didn't know that. Yeah,
that's awesome.
>> Yeah, that's part of his contract.
>> Good for you.
>> I forget what the number was but it was
substantial. So Hannah and Ferrer got a
a giant payday for that fight too. Good.
It's like how are they where are they
getting I guess they have Saudi money.
>> I think they did for some of the shows
because they went to Saudi to to do some
shows but uh
>> I don't know if they're backing them the
whole the whole company.
>> You you you're going to need something
like Netflix and Netflix can kind of
pull it off because Netflix has a
massive promotional machine and but they
they need big names. So, like now that
they have Nate and Mike Perry on the
card too, like okay. Okay. So, you got
Nate, Mike Perry, you got Francis,
Philip Lind,
>> you have uh Rhonda and Gina.
>> Okay. Now, you have three interesting
fights.
>> Yeah.
>> You're going to need a few more.
>> And it's on Netflix, so it's going to be
free. But even if Nate and Mike Perry
was the head of the headliner, I would
have bought that pay-per-view.
>> Exly 100%. Well, you don't have to buy
it. It's on Netflix. So, this is what
gets interesting. So, if this fight goes
on Netflix and gets a 50 million views,
>> it's gonna get a lot.
>> Yeah, it could get more views than any
fight ever. Yeah, it could. It's very
possible that that because Netflix is
bigger than anything
>> if they got more views than anybody
ever.
>> That would be [ __ ] But then YouTube
might come along and go on a mixed
martial arts event.
>> Hey guys, we're YouTube. We're even
bigger than Netflix cuz YouTube is
bigger than [ __ ] Netflix. YouTube is
everywhere. And if they come up with
some crazy if some if more players get
involved in this and more people become
free agents, it could get very
interesting.
>> Dude, it's crazy to see how far the
sport has come cuz like back all these
big companies wouldn't want to touch
this human [ __ ] fighting back in the
day.
>> Now everybody wants a piece of the pie.
>> I know. It's
>> cool now. They know.
>> Yeah. It's wild, right? That cage
fighting became something that like
corporate America wants to get involved.
>> Dude, I'm in the airport. I'm in the
grocery store. grandmothers, old, you
know, ladies are walking up to me
talking about fights, which is insane,
>> insane,
>> insane. Cuz 15 years ago, it was bearded
guys with tattoos would be in the
grocery store.
>> We'd whisper about it, you know.
>> It was frowned upon. We'd talk about
fight club, you know? Now it's like
soccer moms. Did you see the fight last
weekend? The armbar. I'm like, what are
you talking about?
>> Well, that's all the UFC. The UFC with
that one deal. The Fertittas have such
huge balls because they were down $40
million when they made that deal for
Spike TV to do the Ultimate Fighter and
they were like, "We're [ __ ]
hemorrhaging money and they were talking
about selling it
>> and just a perfect storm. Stefan and
Forest and the world was watching, man."
And it felt special.
>> I remember being at my mother's house.
>> I knew I was watching something special.
>> Yeah.
>> Like this is special.
>> I know. It was crazy being there live,
too. It was so nuts. It was so nuts to
watch it evolve and watch it burst out.
And by then, by 2005, I had already been
working for them for like four years
cuz I well I started in 97 with the old
owners and I did like the backstage and
postfight interviews and then I did it
for a little bit then I had to quit. I
was like this is costing me money. I
made more money going to a comedy club
for a weekend than I would flying to
Dothan, Alabama to do
>> Boer City, Louisiana.
>> But I I was happy I did it because it
was fun and it was exciting. And I
remember me and Eddie Bravo back then,
we were like, man, you know what the UFC
needs? This is like literally a
conversation we had in like 98. They
need some crazy billionaires that love
the sport to just dump a bunch of money
in it because we know it's exciting.
It's just the rest of the world doesn't
know. And along came the Fertittas and
they did it. that they saw it and wrote
that vision out and it paid off.
>> It's nuts. Paid off. Literally like
exactly what we said needed to happen.
And then for that fight to happen in the
Ultimate Fighter between Stefan Bonner
and Forest Griffin because it was a
perfect kind of fight was it was so
evenly matched. It was so chaotic and
they knew each other so well from being
in the house together. They just went
after it
>> for three solid rounds. At the end both
guys were like h
>> but dude had nothing. How could the idea
of the actual kumate idea of putting the
best fighters from all over the world,
whatever discipline they train in, let's
find out was the that's I mean it has
it's of course it's going to succeed.
It's chaos.
>> Yeah.
>> It's everything you want to see.
>> And the crazy thing it was really kind
of invented as a showcase for Gracie
Jiu-Jitsu cuz the Horian was like, you
know, like look, jiu-jitsu is going to
prevail. And he was kind of right.
>> No, I mean at first,
>> dude. Hoist was in there against Giants.
Dance ever.
>> Dude, come on.
>> Chemo.
>> What do you weigh? 180 pounds, 190
pounds,
>> maybe. Not even. I think he 176 fighting
these bodybuilders.
>> And I asked him why they pick him. He
goes, "Look at this face." And look how
beautiful I am. I'm so good looking.
That's why they picked me.
>> Wearing pajamas. We even know what a
ghee was.
>> Well, I had no idea jiu-jitsu was that
that effective. I was so confused. Yeah.
I was like, "Someone's going to kick
him. He's [ __ ] Someone's going to
punch him." And no, like he's just
taking dudes to the ground that stomp
like sidekick.
>> No idea of anything that they're doing.
Just letting them pass guard, letting
him Yeah. do anything. You don't know
any anything.
>> He's choking guys with the ghee, too.
He's grabbing his own car. I'm like,
"Oh, this is wild."
>> That's one thing I do like I got away
from the ghee. So,
>> from white belt to brown belt, I
competed IBJJF every tournament. I could
would do my weight class, would do
absolute, get the reps. I love
jiu-jitsu, but like probably around
2011, 2012, I stopped putting the ghee
on, you know, it was all in mixed
martial arts training cuz I was getting
before I would use jiu-jitsu to prepare
for fights at a small school I was at.
But when I went to American Top Team, I
didn't need anymore because I had such
high level guys on the mats at all
times. I was doing jiu-jitsu no ghee
every day. But it's been so many years
since I've put on a ghee and had like a
jiu-jitsu practice, man. And even the
practices I do now are all no ghee. It's
fun. I want to get back into ghee.
>> Gee is fun, but Eddie Bravo said it
best. He goes, "If you were a
professional tennis player, would you
practice for tennis by playing
raetball?"
>> No, you wouldn't. You would play tennis.
You would do the thing that you do. If
you want to get really good at MMA
jiu-jitsu, you need to do no ghee. And
he's right.
>> I mean, ghee definitely helps as well,
but you got to do no ghee.
>> What ghee does is it teaches you that
you have to be technical with your
defense because you can't muscle out of
things.
>> Yeah. But the reality is like you should
just be technical with no gi
>> for sure.
>> That's the thing. Like get out of the
thing. Like
>> I always say that the best jiu-jitsu is
to learn learn jiu-jitsu from a small
guy.
>> Like
>> all technique.
>> Yeah. Like like a Barrett Yoshida, Hiler
Gracie, Eddie Bravo. Like learn
jiu-jitsu from small people. Yeah.
Because they're all technique. They
can't muscle out of things. You learn
Brazilian jiu-jitsu from some big giant
[ __ ] like their their game is
going to be so different cuz they're so
strong,
>> right?
>> But like look at like the [ __ ] guys.
Look at the Makachevs and Kabibs. Like
that that's the game of no ghee. That's
no ghee. It's like their their no ghee
game is finally polished.
>> Yeah.
>> Finally. That's it's not going to help
them to wear a ghee,
>> right?
>> Their game wouldn't be better. Like
Khabib's game wouldn't have been better
on top.
>> You never see these guys on their back
in guard. It's a different It's a
different It's a different speed. It's
jiu-jitsu, but it's a different
different game.
>> Yeah.
>> What they do
>> small small changes on the locks like we
were saying with the dar choke grabbing
your forearm. They do things a little
bit different, man. Even their wrestling
like is is different. It's not
collegiate fundamental wrestling that
you would teach at at a wrestling camp.
>> It's just chain wrestling that they kind
of developed and have their own style.
Man, it's different.
>> It really is interesting. And then, you
know, when I've talked to Daniel, he's
like, "Dude, I've seen Kabib put it on
like highlevel
amateur wrestlers in the gym. Put it on
them." And I believe it, too.
>> I mean, he's just his discipline. When
he was in his prime, man, his discipline
was just above and beyond.
>> His discipline, his drive, his focus.
And there's something to be said for
those guys, too, because they're super
religious. So, there's no partying,
there's no drinking, there's no chasing
women, there's no [ __ ] It's just
drive, drive, drive, drive,
>> right?
>> You know, and that collecting the legs
that he does with the triangle
underneath the legs when he's in the
mount
>> against the fence.
>> So hard to get out of
>> everybody's doing it now. You know, the
wrist ride, the handcuff he's doing.
Everybody's doing it.
>> Yeah, dude. He I mean it's been really
interesting to watch like these dominant
forces come along and like sort of remap
the landscape of the game, you know, and
we've seen it with them,
>> especially in such a high stakes game.
How do you do it that many times without
catching a heel to the face, without
catching a knee?
>> You know, the guys he's fought so many
dangerous guys, he's just
>> drowned them, you know?
>> I know. Well, you know, Islam got caught
in that one fight and got knocked out.
>> Adriana Martinez.
>> Yeah.
>> Right. But it just shows you as a human
being.
>> Yeah, it can happen to anyone. It
>> can happen to anybody. And the Glacon
TBA fight with uh with Kabib. I feel
like Glacon won that fight.
>> Oh man, I know a lot of people always
talk about that.
>> I feel like Glacon won that fight.
>> Me and TBA have been training partners
for so we beat each other up so much.
He's such a fun guy, man. Gle is such a
good dude.
>> He's another guy. Like how the [ __ ] are
you 155?
>> So much energy, dude. Never complains
about anything. He could have 50 lb
weight cut. Smiling in the sauna. Just
happy to be here. just hope he just hope
both teams have fun.
>> That's awesome. Yeah, that's awesome.
>> Just a happy go guy, man. Just
>> I watched that fight again because I was
like, am I talking out of school? Should
I shut the [ __ ] up? And I watched it
again. I go, no, I think he won.
>> Was it a split?
>> I don't remember. I don't remember if it
was split,
>> but he was stopping takedowns.
>> Yeah. And he was a tank.
>> That guy was a tank.
He was big. He was big and jacked,
>> dude. Probably 5'8, 57.
>> Little sausage.
>> Maybe,
>> maybe.
>> Maybe. I don't know.
>> I don't know either. But
>> I don't know.
>> Skillful. Super skillful. You know,
solid striking, solid jiu-jitsu.
>> Oh, great jiu-jitsu.
>> Very good everywhere.
>> Black belt jiu-jitsu. Strong as [ __ ]
>> And just, you know,
>> they knew from an early age because I
think his middle name is Hercuino.
>> I'm serious.
>> That's hilarious.
>> Yeah.
>> Hercuino.
>> Hercuino.
Brazilians have some of the funnest that
can
>> Yeah. He might have eight names, you
know.
>> I bet.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Gleon, Tiba, Alves, Hercuino, a few
other things that I'm missing, I'm sure.
>> I'm I'm serious though. Johnny Gleason,
maybe T-Ba.
>> I don't know. He has a few names.
>> That's fine. I'm being serious. Really?
He's got a bunch of names that nobody
knows.
>> That's hilarious, man. Well, at American
Top Team, man, you probably have seen
more elite talent come through those
doors. Shout out to Dan Lampbert.
>> Well, Dan's a man. That [ __ ] put
the money in, put the time in when there
was no money to be made. There was no
that guy was
>> he just loved it. It was a passion
thing.
>> And just thank It's just like what we
said with the UFC, we need a rich guy to
come along and just throw the money at
it. Like that's what Dan did with
American Top Team. I remember when he
was putting together the the new
American Top Team facilities and he
showed me we're going to have dorms,
we're going to have this. I'm like
>> I was like this dude's trying to go
broke. Like what are you doing,
>> dude? It's huge and that area is crazy
expensive. on a huge piece of land.
>> I need to get Dan in here. I know I
talked to him about it before, but he
deserves
>> he deserves the credit because that guy
>> and dude, honestly, like
>> him building the gym and asking fighters
for 5% which is, you know, crazy,
unheard of. Other gyms are taking crazy
amounts, you know, he's giving you all
these amenities, giving you a place to
stay.
>> At one point, he had houses as well,
fighter houses that he bought and he
would put fighters up in the houses for
camps and stuff. Dude, I've heard of him
paying covering medical bills that
fighters didn't have money for never
getting paid back. Y
>> like all all time. He's done so much
stuff, man. He Yeah. A good good for the
sport.
>> Amazing for the sport. And if he didn't
put together that super gym, who knows
how many of these super gyms would have
ever evolved
>> because he kind of set the blueprint for
what what a gym could be. To this day,
that's still the best gym in the world
in terms of like super gyms.
>> So much knowledge, man.
>> Right. So much knowledge, so much
equipment. It's so big. It's so wellmade
and you never know who's going to be on
the mat. At any time you walk in and do
an MMA class, there's literally
thousands of mixed martial arts about
experience on the mat at any time.
>> Was Robbie his first world champion?
>> I was there for every camp when Robbie
came over. Uh
>> I feel like it might have been like
there was like everybody was like Dan
Lambert deserves a world champion.
Someone's got to be a world champion.
>> Robbie might have been the first, dude.
>> I think it might have been the first.
>> Well, I mean Mike Brown was WC. Yeah,
but UFC champion Robbie Lawler was
number one.
>> I remember when he came over, man.
>> Hey, how was Pantoia? Do you know how
his elbow
>> I don't know how the injury is, but it
has to be bad if they're skipping him
and going with this uh
>> I know
>> other title fight.
>> I know.
>> I was there like two weeks ago. I went
down to help some buddies. I spent a
week there. I didn't see Pantoia at all.
So,
>> it was so nasty. But it what was really
weird was like when Megan Olivy was
talking to us, they were saying that he
dislocated his shoulder and I was like,
"What? What?" Like, "What are you
talking about? His elbow went out." Like
I'm watching his elbow go.
>> Yeah. It looked like the elbow.
>> And they said, "No, but I think they the
doctor had misspoke." And I'm 99% sure
that it was actually the elbow that went
out cuz the the elbow clearly moves and
and it caves in and gives out,
>> right? And when that happens, ligaments,
muscles, everything gets damaged. But I
just don't know the extent.
>> Well, it's too bad because also Pantosia
is older and he's older and dominant in
flyweight which is very hard to to do.
>> It sucks at any time to see a fight in
like that.
>> Terrible.
>> Especially a title fight.
>> Especially a title fight, especially on
the streak he was on defending the belt.
Like it just [ __ ] man.
>> Not just that, but
>> and he's such a hard worker and such a
quiet guy and just a good dude, you
know?
>> He's a [ __ ] savage, too. I think he's
one of the greatest of all time.
>> In the post fight, Dana said something
about the shoulder also.
>> They popped his shoulder back in. I
thought it was the elbow. Well, it was
the el. It says it's not the elbow. It
was his shoulder. It's his elbow as
well, though.
>> It's got to be That's weird.
>> Yeah. Followup post said there was no
ligament damage. But I was trying to
find uh updated.
>> So, even if there's no ligament damage,
there could be cartilage damage. A lot
of other [ __ ]
>> Anytime something bends the way it's not
supposed to
>> and soft tissues damage.
>> His weight and Joshua Van's weight all
on one arm posted and that arm gives
out.
>> But damn, dude. when he fought that
Japanese cat. Who was that guy?
>> Ran through him.
>> When Pantosha did.
>> Yeah. Like you you just see how good he
is. When he fought Kai Carl France, ran
through him. I was like, "This dude is
on fire right now." He's good, man.
>> He's on fire.
>> I think Panto is one of the best of all
time.
>> And dude, not loud, not flashy, quiet.
He'll walk in the gym, go be in
practice, you won't notice him. Just
working. Always does his work. Just
working.
>> Yeah. Just [ __ ] focused. Just a
soldier. I love to see that though, man,
because like a few years before he was
uh the world I mean the flyweight
champion, he was driving Uber or Uber
Eats, like just trying to making, you
know, scrapping to to get bills paid.
And you see a guy become That's what
makes fighting so special, though.
>> You know, like Teddy Atlas has a speech
about it. But it's like where else can
you be from any discipline, any creed,
anything, any background and call
yourself the world, the champion of the
world? Like true.
>> So powerful. on any given night you can
go against the odds and be a Buster
Douglas or be
>> be a Uber Eats driver and be the world
champion, you know, a couple years
later. Like, it's just special, man.
Fighting combat is special.
>> It is special and it is the end all of
all sports. Like, if someone shoots a
basket and they make a three-pointer on
you, you're like, "Okay, but I could
still [ __ ] you up." You know, no one
says after you [ __ ] them up, "Yeah, but
I could score a basket on you." No one
cares,
>> dude. The
>> It's the end of all sports.
>> The end of all everything. The middle
The best middle school comeback.
Somebody could beat Can't beat me
though.
>> Yeah.
>> Can't beat me though. That was like the
comeback for anything. Can't beat me
though. Like that's the top of the line.
The best the top challenge. Exactly. The
top challenge.
>> Doesn't matter if you're better at back
gaming,
>> right?
>> Yeah. You dumped on me, but I'll beat
your ass.
>> Yeah. Beating someone's ass is the
That's the end goal. That's what all
sports aspire to be.
>> Yeah.
>> Is combat sports.
So, do you have plans for stuff you want
to do outside of fighting now? Like now
that you're retired and now you're
settling in,
>> be a good dad, be a good husband. That's
my that's my goals always, but I have a
few other businesses, you know, I've had
for years. Um, I got a documentary.
>> Got a great hot sauce.
>> Got a great hot sauce.
>> That hot sauce is legit.
>> Well, that's not Thank you, man.
>> It's legit.
>> Porier's Louisiana hot sauce. It's not
white label. We made this. We developed
it.
>> Good, dude. It's very
>> Thank you. I'm proud of it. I'm proud of
it.
>> Yeah. When you sent it to me, I was
like, "Okay, I'll try it." I'm like,
"Oh, shit."
>> It's legit.
>> Vinegar based.
>> Vinegar based cayenne pepper.
>> Very good.
>> Very good hot sauce.
>> Thank you, man. I put a little celery in
there.
>> You can tell you put some work into
that.
>> Yeah. I didn't want it to. There's so
many vinegar based hot sauces on the
shelf, you know? You get lost in that.
And the shelf space is so hard to get. I
learned I'm learning all this business
stuff as I move forward, you know. And
now that I'm done fighting, I get to
really see where the hot sauce is
because every fight, every promotion, I
got to talk about it and sales always
around every fight were great. But now
we're going to level off and see what
kind of stride we have.
>> Well, it's legit, man. It's I I
recommend it highly.
>> Thank you, man.
>> It's very good.
>> Besides that, I have a few businesses in
Lafayette and I'm really uh getting
excited. I have a documentary coming out
this year.
>> The same guys who made my first
documentary, Fightville, I don't know if
you've seen it, came out in 2011. It was
on Netflix.
>> Actually did a premiere here at South by
Southwest. Uh Showtime picked it up. But
the same company that did that, Pepper
and Bones
>> is doing my retirement documentary. So
they did the whole last training camp
filmed. They live in Germany. So they
would fly down, stay with in camp. They
did the whole fight week in New Orleans.
Then they came back down for
Thanksgiving, this recent Thanksgiving,
and uh finished up the documentary. And
they have hundreds of hours of footage
unreleased from when I was 17, 18 years
old.
>> Whoa.
>> So they got the be they got the whole
journey.
>> Whoa.
>> Just randomly this guy was filming
a a war veteran who turned he was doing
a him and his wife were documentary
makers and uh they were following this
guy who just got back from the Middle
East and he happened to be a fighter and
I met the guy at a fight show I fought
on. He was filming the other guy for a
war film. started talking. Then he just,
"Man, I'm interested in you. Let me
started filming me." And then, dude, now
I have all this hundreds hours of
footage of me fighting amateur small
shows behind the scenes at my house like
as a kid.
>> Oh, that's incredible.
>> Yeah. So, we're going to put it all into
this documentary.
>> Dude, that's awesome. That's amazing.
Well, listen, brother. Whatever you do,
you know, if you put the same energy
that you put into becoming a great
fighter, you'll be great at anything you
do. That's just the beautiful thing
about doing the most difficult thing is
everything else is definitely going to
be easier.
>> I want to go back to the difficult
thing.
>> I don't want the easy path, man.
>> So hard. It's so hard to let it go,
right?
>> It's hard to be a like like I tell my
wife, I say this a lot. Be a civilian to
go from
fight life every day for for so long to
being a civilian. It's like I'm
relearning who I am.
>> Maybe a couple boxing matches.
>> Maybe the UFC will let you out.
>> I would love to.
>> Do you think the UFC will let you out of
contract? Do some boxing matches?
>> Nope. I don't think so. Unless the pot
was big enough to where I don't think
so.
>> Ah, they should.
>> But I'm not [ __ ] fighting Floyd
Mayweather. The pot ain't going to be
big enough,
>> right?
>> You know,
>> cuz there was a Russian company that
wanted me and Nate to box.
>> Oh. And UFC said no.
>> I didn't even bring it to him. Ariel
Hwani hit me up and said, "Hey, any
interest in this?
>> I have interest, but I didn't want to
bring it to Hunter and Dana. I didn't
want to ask him.
>> Give it a try."
>> Yeah.
>> Give it a try. See what happens after
this.
>> I tried to do the benefit. I tried to
let's do it in Zufa boxing.
>> Yeah, that's silly that they don't want
to do any crossovers, but I get it,
>> dude. I don't know if I want any more
head trauma either, Joe.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah, I want to raise my son. And
>> that's true.
>> That's true, too. That's true, too.
>> I have 50 something fights,
>> right? That's true, too. Maybe just let
it go.
>> It'll never be gone. Well,
>> keep it in the back of your head. Just
work out.
>> It'll never be gone. I want to take I
want to take care of my head.
>> I'm never GOING TO STOP.
>> I'M NEVER GOING TO STOP. AND I hope
William's there tonight.
>> Yeah, he'll be there tonight for sure. I
didn't I didn't message him.
>> Oh, he was there. William Montgomery.
Shout out to William. I didn't even
catch that you were saying that in when
you were jumping guillotine. Never going
to stop. I didn't realize that. And then
everybody online told me, "Oh, he he's
doing William Montgomery." I was like,
>> "OH MY GOD, HOW DID I MISS THAT?"
>> I WAS 100% doing William Montgomery. But
also, I give you the benefit of the
doubt, dude. My delivery was kind of
bad. It wasn't the exact I was just so
focused when I'm doing postfight
interviews. I'm just always so focused
in trying to get everything out of the
fighter that they want to say. That's
all all I'm thinking of is what can I
ask him that can help them better
express themselves after this big
victory.
>> Yeah.
>> You know, so it's like
>> I was the underdog and Mike every time I
went to the corner, he's like, "Stop
jumping guillotines. You're giving up
takedowns. You're not going to get cut
it out. Don't do it." I'm like,
>> "Was that the Ben Was underneath
>> never going to stop." Yeah. Yeah.
>> That was a great victory, too, man. That
was a good one.
>> Yeah. With the streak he's on, is aging.
Aging well. Aging well now. Very well.
Listen, brother. You're an all-time
great.
>> It's an honor.
>> So cool to have you here again.
>> Thank you for having
>> and uh congratulations on an amazing
career. And you, like I said, you're
going to kill it with whatever you do,
whatever you do in life.
>> Try to be cop. I'm going to try to do
the desk work and see where that goes,
man.
>> Yes. And buys hot sauce. It's legit.
>> You heard?
>> All right. Thanks, sir. Bye, everybody.