BTK becomes the brand, but he does not
get the credit for the truly brilliant,
sadistic serial killer that he was. I
mean, this guy was doing dry runs before
he went into a home.
>> He has his alibis already set up.
>> He would lie to get his victims to
submit and then when they were already
incapacitated, he'd be like, "I'm the
BTK killer." 40 years. He is never a
suspect. This is where it starts to get
juicy.
Today we are going to be talking about
by popular demand. I will say because I
I've I've gotten this request more than
any other person in the comments. We're
going to be talking about the one and
only Dennis Raider, the BTK story. The
first round, by the way, I I mentioned
BTK and you were like, "Nah, we're not
going to do that one. Let's put that one
aside. We don't want to do that one."
So, I'd watched probably four or five
episodes on it already when then this
time you said, "We got to do BTK." And I
was like,
>> I'm already up on BTK.
>> Yeah. We got to get We got to get those
numbers cooking again. We got to listen
to the fans. We Hey, there are customers
and we have to start listening to the
customers.
>> Yes.
>> Right. And the customer is always right.
>> The customers and a lot of our customers
are not happy with me.
>> No, they I do love when I feel down. I
like to read the comments. I'm like I'll
I'll be in bed with Jeff with my wife.
I'm like I'm like they hate this guy.
It's great. Listen what they said about
me. [laughter]
>> They love me. They hate him.
>> It's so And when I want to when I
similarly when I want to feel up about
myself, I read those because unlike you,
I get a laugh out of these comments.
There's a lot of people living where I'm
living rentree in their head and I
appreciate it. Keep it coming. Um,
Dennis Rder.
Look, I don't want to call him the Steve
Jobs, you know? I'm trying to be trying
to be a little more serious about this,
>> sensitive to the the subject matter,
>> right? Too soon. Okay. But he truly is a
pioneer and does not get his flowers.
Matt. Matt. Matt. Matt. I'm not saying
it's right, but he does not get the
credit for the truly kind of brilliant,
sadistic serial killer that he was.
What's funny is that there were numerous
times when he would he he felt that way
like you don't feel that way. He felt
that's what's so funny. He actually
multiple times someone else would get
blamed for his crime or they would
remember these this guy came in and took
credit for one of the murders and he was
furious. So he wrote a letter, got on.
No, no, that's when he wrote the letters
and uh
>> it's the reason he got caught,
>> right? And then they had the then later
on at some point which we'll get into is
that
>> uh that they kind of did a a
10th anniversary or 20th anniversary on
some uncertain
>> 30th 30th that he had done and he was
upset because they were somebody was
talking about writing a book and he was
like, "Oh, hell no. If anybody's writing
a book, I need to be a part of writing
that book." And that's what that's what
led to his undoing, right? Which we'll
get into. Ego is Can you think of, you
know, Jack the Ripper had a lot of ego,
right? He was taunting, teasing, you
know, writing in to to the London
newspaper.
>> Oh, yeah. He's mailing in body. He
melled in some pieces, right?
>> But what's so interesting about the ego
of these of these psychopaths, these
serial killers, is that addiction to
power. So, not only is it before they
kill their victims, they're they're
physically torturing them, they like
torturing their communities. So, he, you
know, Dennis Rder was part of this small
town Witchita community and it was like
he was toying with them for 40 years
>> before he finally got caught. And it's
that kind of
>> it's the control that they're addicted
to
>> almost more than the actual, you know,
pleasure of killing. So, I found that
fascinating.
>> Yeah. He it it's and you were you
mentioned this earlier. We were talking
about his childhood where you were
calling him a kind of an outlier, right?
Like there was no there was no he wasn't
beaten. He didn't have a horrible
upbringing. He wasn't, you know, um he
wasn't like like there's none of the
things that typical serial killers uh go
through that help kind of cultivate them
and turn them into serial killers. Not
that they're not already um predisposed
to to violence, but there's sometimes
things happen in their childhoods that
push them over the edge. And had they
not happened, maybe they wouldn't have,
maybe they would have whatever. In his
case,
>> uh multiple psych psychiatrists that and
psychologists that cuz I watched a bunch
of docs um were saying the same thing
that they were like they were like this
guy had like an ideal upbringing. He was
and they talked to a bunch of his
friends. Friends were the same way. They
were like there was nothing exceptional
about him, but they were like he was he
was a decent
>> baseball player. He was a decent he was
decent at everything. They said he was
kind of just always there. But there was
the one thing where one of his f
childhood friends said in you know you
2020's hide of course that they said
like um he would catch like small
animals that you would like as a kid if
you were to kill a frog or something
like that that he would actually take
his time and string them up and kind of
torture them a little bit.
>> But if you talk to any kid from the
ghetto from West Baltimore they're
they're like yeah I lit a cat on fire.
You know that that that's common in many
dispossessed communities. Not that
Raider grew up in a dispossessed
community, but times were different back
in the days.
>> There's always those kids that are
[ __ ] that will take a that will take
a hammer and hit a [ __ ] kitten or
something, right? There's always that
that Yeah. Yeah. There's there's always
some douchebag kid that thinks it's
cool, but I I always think that there's
got to be something going on in
[clears throat] their household that
make them lash out like that. And and
even to Raider and his family, to
everybody was like there was nothing. He
was blah. He was he was just your
run-of-the-mill Midwest guy.
>> So truly born that way. Like you know
how like
>> transgender people, many of them now,
many many of the young transgenders just
do it cuz it's a fad, right?
>> Cuz they have mental illness because
they have whatever their friends are
doing it. They're rebelling against
their parents. It's kind of belong to
something,
>> right? But then you know those old
school [ __ ] I'm talking about the
the ones that like your dad knows where
you're like, "Yeah, okay. My friend
Martha used to be my buddy Steve."
Right? Like old school. Yeah. Those
>> are serious.
>> That they're born like that. Those
[ __ ] Dennis Raider was born
like that. He was born born this way.
>> So,
>> except me except me as I am.
>> So, I don't even know where we are on
the outline, but I did want March 9th,
1945.
Born in Pittsburgh, Kansas. He was
raised primarily in Witchah. Um, and
yeah, I can't see I can't see anything
in the what I dug up to to convince me
that there was like a watershed moment
of abuse, bullied,
whatever. Well, what I was going to
mention was at one point he Raider
actually says this during one of his
interviews where he said the first time
he realized that hey maybe something's
not right and it and his mo I think his
his family had mentioned it before where
his mother had reached I want to say
underneath the couch and her ring got
caught on a spring and so as a result of
that the springs through the ring like
now it's super tight and she can't get
she's caught underneath the couch and
can't remove her hand. And so she's
struggling and she screams for him to go
get his father and to help and help. And
he said that's the first time he
remembered she was in pain. She was
screaming for help. She was helpless.
And he said he got sexually aroused.
>> That was like the first time.
So, but once again, that was already
there, right? like there was no there's
nothing that that uh predated that that
could have contributed to it. It's just
he realized that something's not right
and this situation
>> and there was something else where he
was being either he was being tied up
when they were playing like um cowboys
and Indians when he was a kid. He really
enjoyed tying people up and he really
enjoyed being tied up.
>> Right. It's freak,
>> right? He's a he's a weirdo from a he's
a weirdo from a from an early age. Once
again, not as a result of anything like
his family did. And I always wonder
about that too, by the way, because I
don't I'm sure you know, you've
interviewed tons of these guys, right?
You've tons of criminals, right?
>> Like lots of people have lots
[clears throat] of people have horrible
upbringings or something in their past
that's not great, you know, something
that could be traumatic. And so I always
wonder like when we always go based on
this the FBI coming up with this
stereotype. This is the stereotypical
serial killer like but maybe if they're
just wrong,
>> you know, maybe just it just was
coincidence that a lot of these people
had these issues cuz lots of people have
these issues.
>> I I believe in evil. I believe in Satan.
And that's one of the things when you go
back to religion like Christianity, you
you see, oh, okay, it's this is just a
battle of good and evil. That's our
universe. You know, there's a palpable
evil in the world right now on a macro
level, but on a micro level, I I do
believe, call me a kook, right? That it
can people can just be born with that
infection. So, and I think it's rare. I
think it's rare. I think nurture is
mostly responsible for people's
antisocial behavior. Like when you
you've been in prison, right, for many
years, most people, even people that are
there for murders,
>> if they had had they either made a
mistake or they had a terrible, terrible
environment, right? There's only a small
percentage that you're like, "Oh, you
are encouraable."
>> Yeah.
>> This you need to be here and there's no
help.
>> You're just a sadistic
>> you're going to get. Exactly. So, but
you know, that's that's Raider, right?
And he talks about that. He talks about
I don't want to get too far ahead here,
but he describes
that he he he felt him that he was two
people
>> the minur. That's right. And and I was
going to say the the
>> the let's call them demons.
>> Um now that he's in incarcerated,
I don't know if this is in the outline
if we'll get to it, but I'm just going
to mention it real quick. He's had a few
phone interviews where he has mentioned
that he's possessed by two demons. This
is all stuff that's like came out after
he's possessed by two demons. I do know
that one of the demons he had referred
to as I want to say the minotaur. I may
be I may be saying it wrong. It might
not be the minur. Some some kind of bull
or something. Anyway, the point is is
that there's but now he's saying like
there's two demons that he's possessed
by. He's it's it's funny like is it does
he believe this is true? Is it true or
is it something he's coming up with?
>> Right.
>> I don't know. But let's let's
>> Right. Did he Did he read the Da Vinci
Code and ghost and the follow up to the
Da Vinci Code uh ghosts and demons and
he said
I don't know probably I think you know
he talks about before he like when he
decided to pick a victim
>> it was a young woman. and he was driving
by in his neighborhood and she was out
like like watering the lawn or something
and he saw two hands like reach out two
dark hands reach out and grab her by the
throat. This is what he saw and he and
that's when he decided, okay, I'm going
to kill her. So, you know, you know that
moment when you text your team, hey
guys, did anyone follow up with that
guy? And then you get nothing back and
two hours later, one thumbs up emoji.
Yeah, that's me every day with my
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The guy is he's smart, but he's not like
he's not a genius. So, I tend to believe
him when he when he talks about this
stuff. You know, I don't think he wanted
to be this way. I think he'd rather be,
you know, uh, a family man and a church,
a leader of his church, which he was.
>> He was I was going to say he was all of
those things. I don't think his his
daughter, I think, has [clears throat]
some, uh, very nice things to say about
her.
>> Um,
>> she wrote a book.
>> There you go. BTK serial killer Dennis
Writer did not name specific theological
demons. Uh he referred to an internal
unnamed presence he called factor X or
sometimes Rex. He gave it gave it a name
which he described as a dark alter ego
or demon within uh that took control
during his murders. He goes off to the
Air Force. He spends his whole time he
spends his whole life in Witchah except
for uh four years when he was off
overseas um uh in the US Air Force.
comes back and gets married to Paula
Deetsz in 1971 and they have two kids.
>> Love of his life by the way. Yes.
>> His parents his his Christian mother uh
and her friend introduced them
>> at the church.
>> Yeah.
>> Imagine Imagine there was a time where
that happened in America. What a
>> It's wholesome.
>> What a wholesome time.
>> Meet this guy. He's a future serial
killer. He's a good provider and he will
be great with the kids. Imagine,
>> can we go back to serial killer for a
second, sweetie? Everybody's got a
hobby.
>> Imagine being the Deetsz family.
>> Your father loves miniature trains. He's
got that whole collection. Don't focus
on the serial killer part.
>> Don't if you're Oh my god, dude. Don't
Don't let your mother-in-law Don't Don't
Don't
let some lady at the church introduce
you to their son. Thanks.
[sighs and gasps] Thanks, Mrs. Raider.
[laughter]
In retrospect, could you imagine
standing being a fly in the room sitting
there watching? [clears throat]
>> Hi, Mrs. Raider. Hi.
>> Not only do you have introduce
[laughter] you to my son and you're
like,
>> not only do you have a demon not only do
you have a demon birthing, you're
[laughter] you're
[ __ ] you insist on introducing nice
churchgoing people to your [ __ ] Satan
[snorts] of a son. Listen, they were
married up till he got arrested. I know.
Apparently had very good relationship.
Yeah. No, he didn't cheat on her. I
mean, this guy, it was full. You're
right. No, no, he didn't. You know, he
never penetrated one of these victims.
>> He just masturbated,
>> right? He specifically said, look, Col's
like, "Huh?" [laughter]
>> Interesting. Specifically, he said that
would have been too far. Not tying him
up, not strangling him, not
>> But that's infidelity, honey. Honey, I
swear. Yes. Yes. I tied her up and hung
her in the basement by a by a a pipe,
but I did not. And yes, I jacked off
next to her. I did not sleep with her.
>> Wow. As you
>> Okay, I'm okay. A little marriage
counseling.
>> We can work through this.
>> We got strong. It'll make us stronger.
>> Okay. Come on. But laugh,
man.
>> People like me. All right.
[clears throat] Anyway, [laughter]
>> let's go. Let's Come on. He got out. He
met her. They get married. Two kids.
>> No. His life truly was Dr. Jackekal and
Mr. hide because he he had kids did who
he didn't he had a wife he didn't cheat
on he was a deacon he wasn't a full
deacon but he was like part of the
administration at his church okay
>> initially and that was initially at
towards the end when they arrest him
he's like the president of the church I
didn't know they had presidents
>> yeah yeah they get the board of you know
because they're just money makers most
churches um and and and he's a boy scout
leader which by the
I love how back in the 70s, uh, if you
told somebody you were like a boy scout
leader, you were like above you were
like above reproach. Oh, there's no way
he could be killing oring kids, he just
he just goes up into the woods where
nobody can hear them. And nowadays, if
you told somebody you're like, "Oh, no,
no. I I'm innocent. I'm a Boy Scout
leader." They're like, "We're taking you
straight to jail." Like, that's
>> Boy Scouts. Um,
>> little Billy can spend the
[clears throat] night. I'm a Boy Scout
[laughter] scout leader. Billy, hold on.
This 11-year-old can spend the night at
my house. I'm a Boy Scout leader, dude.
>> Um, so he
very ironically earned a degree in
criminal justice from Witchah State
University in 1979.
>> Wanted to be a police officer.
>> And this is after he's committed his
first string of slangs.
>> No. Okay. Well, wait. What's What's the
first one?
>> In the SE73.
He was he got a job in the aerospace
industry because that's like the big
industry in Witchah, Kansas. I remember
that. He got a job working on airplanes.
So, he's a he's kind of like a guy he's
got like an engineering mind,
>> right?
>> Um he's thorough as you're as we're
about to see.
>> He gets the job,
>> his like dream job, he he describes it
as.
>> Yeah.
>> But then loses it for some reason a
couple months later.
>> Uh and that is the moment he said his
brain went, "Fuck it. Time to kill.
>> It's on.
>> So that is the I guess that's the moment
where he psychopathy his latent
psychopathy became active.
>> Right. So So my understanding is he said
while he was working at [clears throat]
the job.
>> Uh what is the name of [snorts] the the
the it's it's a it's a big time it's a
big time um
>> Lockheed Martin.
>> Lheed Martin is it? It's not it's not
No, it's not. I was going to say no. I
would have remembered that. No, but it
was a it was it's a it's like a a brand
name. Anyway, so He was working there
and he said what does he call it?
Trolling where he said he would he I
don't know if that's the word he used.
It's something like that where basically
he said to blow off steam he would drive
around and like kind of like stalk
people and troll. Yeah.
>> Then he said but and that was good
enough. I was very he was extremely
occupied with his job. He liked his job.
Liked the family. Everything was going
well. But when to blow off whenever he
said I got a little bit of time this is
what I do. kind of drive around and kind
of stalk certain people and kind of
stalk, you know, look around and
>> but then he lost the job and suddenly he
had a lot of time on his hands and he
said because I had so much time on my
hands that's part of what made him go
okay that's it I'm going to what I've
been daydreaming about for
>> wow
>> all this time
>> right
>> now I'm going to do it
>> and it's Witchah so it's not so easy to
just get another job
>> yeah well yeah
>> back then
>> and it's a very small community Yeah.
Right. Like that's that's 30,000 people.
I don't know how many people it is, but
that's that's that's a pretty tiny
commute to be killing
>> in your area.
>> Mhm.
>> That's
>> 250,000 is what it grew to be up, you
know, when he got I think when he got
arrested, but that's a small that's a
small area.
>> So, they've never seen anything like
this.
>> All all the cop everybody they
interviewed said, "Look, that doesn't
happen here." One person said, which I
love, they said, "This happens in New
York. This happens in big cities.
Doesn't happen here. I thought, "Yeah,
>> oh, it happens here.
>> It happens here." Right.
>> So, he he gets laid off and he says,
"Well, how am I going to fill the hours
up? I'm going to start killing." And
kill he does. January 15th, 1974.
Uh, he commits probably the most brutal
homicide that that Witchita has ever
seen. It's a quadruple
homicide. And explain to me how he did
this physically because he kills Hang
on. and he kills Joseph Otto, 38, a
grown ass man, his wife Julie, two of
their children, Josephine and Joseph,
>> and he leaves their their two other
children, their two older kids, um, come
home and discover the bodies after they
get off school,
>> right? So what happens is initially he
initially he's he's watching [snorts]
uh he watches the wife and typically the
husband's gone, right?
>> Mhm.
>> He's I think pretty sure he's in the
military and he's gone and so he comes
home. He comes cuz he's looking to grab
the wife and I don't know if he's if he
knows if the kids are there but he hears
a dog but he figures
I'm already committed right as he gets
goes through gets into the backyard cuz
he's going to come through the back
door. He as he's walking up to the back
door one of the kids opens up one of the
kids opens up the back door and the dog
comes out to let the dog out. So, uh,
the dog comes out and, uh, he just he's
got his gun. So, he pushes the little
kid in cuz he thinks, "I'm I got I'm
going to grab both kids and the mother."
And as soon as he walks in with the gun,
the father's standing there, but he's
got a gun. He's already got his gun out.
>> So, he's got a weapon, the father is
like, "Follow his directions." Because
he knows he's got a weapon
>> and and he's also telling them that he's
there to rob them. Right. Right. like um
sometimes he would tell people I'm not
sure which one this was, but sometimes
it would be this one I'm pretty sure he
said like, "Listen, I'm I'm desperate.
I'm broke. I'm an escape convict." Kind
of like uh the the um Zodiac Killer, you
know, escaped convict or, you know, I'm
on the run, whatever it was. And he's
got [clears throat] I just need I'm just
going to rob you. And what he first does
is he has uh I believe he has the wife
tie up the husband. Then he ties up the
uh the wife. Then he ties up the two
kids. Then he he doesn't really he's
never done this before. So he puts a bag
over Mr. Otto's head and I believe it
wrapped tape around it or a cord. And
the problem is that he's assuming he's
going to suffocate, right?
>> Mhm.
>> Mr. Otto chews through the bag and he
can hear him breathing through the hole
in the bag. And so he goes in there and
I'm pretty sure he chokes him to death.
Uh once again, not easy to do, right? So
it's it it takes Well, here's the
problem is it takes a long time.
>> You know, you could you could do people
think you you watch the movies and it's
done in 20 seconds, right?
>> Minutes and it's not like clean. You
break their windpipe, they're bleeding,
it's awful.
>> So you hear So I hear Yes. So um and
then he ends up killing the wife and
then he kills the little boy. He
actually supposedly watches the little
boy. Like he wraps something around his
head, sits there and pulls up a chair
and watches the little boy suffocate to
death.
>> And he's also um he's letting him up for
air. He's not doing it quick. Like he
brings him to the point of death and
then takes the bag off,
>> which is something that's common for
serial killers. And it's funny because
when I was watching one of the docs,
they could tell they said you could tell
that this happens because their faces
get bloated or something. There's some
kind of bloating that that happens where
it doesn't happen naturally.
So that was and I'm sure have no doubt
that Dennis Rder had no problem
when they eventually catch him. So then
he takes the the older girl. I believe
she's 13 or 14. Is she 13 or 14?
>> No, Josephine's 11.
>> Oh, 11. [ __ ] this [ __ ] guy. Takes
her downstairs
and he hangs her,
>> right?
>> And then after he hangs her, he
masturbates,
>> right?
>> And absolutely leaves semen. Like even
though back back in the se early 70s
when the police showed up there's no
DNA. They don't really know anything
about DNA. They don't know that DNA is
something that's coming in the future
that this will be revolutionary tool
that they can use. But still they see
the semen. They take samples. They know
to take samples. They're think maybe
they're thinking blood type something. I
don't know. Either way they take
samples. And Raider knows he left the
DNA by the I mean, he he knows he left
the the the seaman cuz later on he when
he starts hearing that they're using
DNA,
>> he starts thinking, "Oh shit."
>> Right.
>> Hopefully, they didn't take it, but they
they've been see they've been um picking
this stuff up and keeping it as evidence
forever. So, anyway, does he also take
pictures
this first? I believe he takes pictures
of the little girl because he's got her
because every time he kills somebody
>> uh he takes time to put them in weird uh
positions right after they're dead. So
he uh he writes cryptic things on the
wall of the basement at theos and then
he t the little girl Josephine after
she's she's dead already. She's hanging
from rope that's attached to a pipe.
>> Uh he kind of affixes her in certain
>> positions. Are you ser? See, I didn't I
did not know that at all.
>> Yeah.
>> Um I mean I know later on I know I know
later on he takes one that one woman to
the church
>> and photographs her in the church.
>> He did that too for sure.
>> Listen, this guy is so there's so many a
lot of the serial killers.
I don't want to say they're not creepy,
but there are some that it's kind of
like they're just going through the
motions. They're not doing anything
that's really for for um
>> they have no style, right? This guy is
dark.
>> He's dark. He's got some real real
issues.
>> Guy Guy had a brand. He had a brand. He
knew about He knew about building a
brand, which is important.
>> So So he Anyway, he leaves there. Um I
don't know if he cut the phone lines or
one of the big things he would do is cut
the phone lines. Either way, he leaves
there the B he leaves the bodies and
>> and he had his whole kit. He had his his
rope, his tape, and his tools for entry,
>> right? Uh because this guy was, you
know, as you mentioned, when he found
out that DNA was a thing, he stopped
jerking off at the scene. Like he he
wanted to get away.
>> He was smart. He
>> But he wants credit. He wants his brand.
He wants a BTK his BTK signature to be
known. He wants He wants press.
>> Well, that's the whole thing with like
criminals. That's always been the the
difficulty uh the duality of the
criminal life. uh like you have to be
invisible,
>> right?
>> Old school mafia guys never you never
even spoke about it outside of your
crew,
>> right?
>> You can't you're it's you're a gangster,
so you're completely anonymous. But man,
not just men, but man, mankind, you want
to be recognized. That's a thing. That's
a thing that we have as humans, but
whatever profession you're in, you want
to have some recognition from people,
right? So, um, like Big Meech, the
[clears throat] the Big Meech and and
the whole, uh, BLM crew, big time, big-
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>> Yeah, they're putting up billboards.
>> They're putting up billboards, right?
>> It's so the ego gets the best of them.
And this guy was this guy was ego-
driven. This guy wanted some recognition
for his his work. Um, but it's I'm just
saying it's it's unlike many of the
serial killers we've talked about. I
mean, this guy was doing dry runs before
he went into a home. Like, this guy was
casing the joint. He was he was
thorough. Yeah, he's got he he has his
alibi already. Alibi is already set up.
He's got he's got like fake IDs or at
least IDs. I don't know that they have
this photo on them or anything. I don't
know that they're driver's license, but
they are like fake IDs like saying he
works for a company. He's got he he has
accessories to make it look like he were
like the the bell telephone thing so
that he was able to walk around or talk
his way into a house. He would say he
was from like Bell Telephone or
something or I don't know if it was AT&T
whatever.
>> He also used the Boy Scouts.
>> The Boy Scouts.
>> I couldn't I was up in the woods.
>> Yeah.
>> My Boy Scout troop. I couldn't have
killed
>> I'm guilty of something. [laughter] Not
that. So yeah. Anyway, he he it's funny
you mentioned the bragging thing. Uh
like fraudsters are the worst because
you know you you desperately want to
tell everybody how smart you are, right?
Like you they're the worst. And I talk
about that all the time cuz you know the
shows would come into Coleman and they
would always say, "Oh, what are you here
for? Fraud." And then guys would come to
me and say, "Go, bro, go talk to that
guy." And I go, "What? He says he's here
for fraud." I go, "I don't want to go
talk to the guy. What are you talking
about? Just go. He wants to meet you.
Something ain't No, he doesn't.
something ain't right about him. And I
go up and I say, "Hey, what kind of
fraud?" And they go, "Uh uh, credit card
fraud." I go, "What were you charged
with?" "I was charged with credit card
fraud." And I go, "Your charge is credit
card fraud." They go, "Yeah." And I,
"There is no such thing as credit card
fraud, by the way. There's no charge for
it in the federal system. It's access
device fraud."
>> But it's like like because you know
mine's bank fraud. I was there's no
mortgage fraud. It's bank fraud. Anyway,
and I was like, and but I don't say
that. I would sit there and go, "Right,
right, right. And I say, ' Okay. I said,
'Well, what were you doing? Uh, I was I
was getting money from the banks. No,
no, I understand, but how? And they go,
I was uh uh taking money out of people's
credit cards. I go, did you work for the
bank? Did you work for a credit card
company? I don't understand what's going
on.
>> They're like podcasting,
>> right? I'm I'm explain.
>> Yeah, explain. Yeah, I want to know how
the fraud works, right? And well, uh uh
it's it's not a learning experience. I
remember this one guy said that and I
looked at him, I went, oh, okay. And I
turned to the guy that asked me to talk
to him and I go, "He's a cho." And I
turn around and walked off and he goes,
he's like, the guy goes, "Bingo." He
goes, "I knew it." And he came up to me
later and he goes, he goes, "Why? How'd
you how'd you know that?" I said, "I've
never met a fraud guy that wasn't
desperate to to tell you how smart he
was, to let you know what he done, how
he figured it out, how brilliant his
crime was." I said, "He don't even want
to talk about it." I said, "No, no
[ __ ] You're not you're not here for
fraud." Sure enough,
>> the guy goes, "Yeah, it was kitty porn."
>> Yeah, it was it was sure enough it was.
I I remember they said when the cops
showed up and and when the cops showed
up with the search warrant and wanted to
get his uh computer, they were like,
"Are we going to find anything on there
here?" And he goes, "Well, no, no, well,
nothing recent." [laughter]
He said maybe from, you know, 6 months
ago or something. They were like, "Yeah,
okay.
>> That's recent enough."
>> Oh, man. Yeah. The statutes aren't that
loose. And his parents owned a uh a
mortuary, by the way.
>> See, I don't [clears throat] know if
that had something to do with it. I
don't know what
>> they if they had just let him [ __ ] the
dead bodies.
>> I think maybe he was [ __ ] the dead
body. No, I'm just joking. I don't know.
I don't know what he was doing, but
there were some photos of it.
>> I'd rather have my son [ __ ] some
corpses than watching, you know? We
might have solved it. We might have
solved We might have
>> solved the problem. [laughter]
We can stop this right now. Anyway,
[clears throat] after he leaves the OTO,
right, the kids come home, they find the
uh parents
>> and their siblings and their siblings.
You did you did you see the part the the
one of the videos actually said where
one of the kids goes into like where his
parents are and calls for the other one.
He said and he says, "Hey, get in here.
Mom and dad are playing a joke."
>> He thought it was a big He thought it
was a big joke.
>> Yeah. Yeah. And they knew something was
off because the dog was outside. They
were like the dog's never outside,
>> right?
>> Imagine that trauma.
>> Oh, yeah. Those two kids, mom, dad, both
s your your your two younger siblings.
No,
>> you're done.
>> Also, I don't know if you knew this. So,
did you ever read the the book uh by uh
Truman Capot in Cold Blood?
>> No, but it's famous. I've heard of it.
>> Yes. So, it's it's a book that's based
on these two guys get out of prison.
They hear that in this farmhouse, some
jerkoff that they were locked up with
tells them that in this farmhouse where
he used to do uh handyman work that the
farmer there has a safe that has tons of
cash. He's been he he puts all this cash
and there's a safe like in the basement.
They go to the they both get out of jail
prison. They hook up. They go to the
farmhouse. They take the family and it's
a family um it's a family I want to say
it's a family of four and with
two parents and family of four
and they they basically go into the
house they tie everyone up they kill
them all
>> it's complete [ __ ] There is no
there's no fortune. There's no money.
There's no safe. It's all [ __ ] That
was huge. That was a huge huge crime
that Dennis Rder remembers and studied
and read the book.
>> So then he has almost an identical, you
know, maybe it's whatever. I'm just
thought it's interesting. I thought it
was interesting. So anyway, after
>> he's got a he's got a
>> he's got a it's it's it's an outline.
>> It's a blueprint. It's a blueprint
>> a little bit. Um
>> so anyway, he So after they find them,
um what ends up happening cuz
>> So the town goes town goes nuts, right?
Uh, and then they start, you know,
there's they go after suspects. By the
way, I want to point out
>> in 40 years,
>> he is never a suspect.
>> No, never in not even on a list. Never
pulled in. He has, and I don't want to
jump ahead too far, but he has one
interaction with cops. That's it. right
after he did a killing. By the way, um
in October of 74, so eight months after
the killings, a letter arrives at the
Witchah Eagle beacon claiming
responsibility and including accurate
crime scene details,
>> right?
>> The first confirmed BTK communication.
So, he was he was the modern-day ripper.
He was let he was toying with these
people, right? Like
>> I'm pretty sure the reason he did it was
he read that somebody had confessed to
the crime.
>> That's right. some some young kid came
in and confessed to the crime and there
was an article about it and he was upset
because he his fear was that they were
going to uh charge this kid and that kid
was going to get credit for his murders.
Not he's not trying to help him out.
>> No.
>> But of course the kid doesn't have any
information. This and here's the thing
when people watch this like this
actually happens a lot. There are many
many people will will go into police
stations and and confess to crimes that
they had nothing to do with. It's just
some kind of a sickness.
>> Yeah. And
>> they're doing it like for a sick goof.
>> It's like when you It's like when you
call the cops when you're a kid.
>> Yeah. But is it because they're going in
a lot these guys are s they're not like
laughing about they're I wonder is it
like you're homeless and you're hoping
to get like a a bologn sandwich or are
they trying to get locked up or are they
just mentally ill? Something's going on
because I don't think it's more than I
don't think it's them thinking it's
funny because let's face it, the [ __ ]
cops don't think it's funny. You only
have to do that once to realize, oh,
this shit's not funny, right?
>> So either way, there's an article about
it. He's upset. He writes a letter with
extensive details, positioning of
bodies, where they're located in the
house, all kinds of stuff that they
would never know. Sends it in because he
just because he wants to make sure that
he gets that BTK gets credit. And that
is the first time with that article,
with that letter that he wrote to the
the paper, the newspaper, that BTK
becomes the brand,
>> right? Binds them to
>> bind, torture, kill.
>> Bind, torture, kill. And that's, you
know, what lives now this is living over
the heads of the people of Witchah for
the next
>> so 74 Yeah. the next 40 years. Um, so in
April,
>> they actually get used to, it's funny
cuz some one of the guys said you you
actually got if you lived in that in
that area, you actually got used to
every few years there would be this guy
would kill somebody and then take credit
for it cuz you just got used to it.
>> Wow. Of course.
>> Yeah. I mean, humans get used to
anything, right? Uh during this time,
this time period because he would took
big breaks like the guy the guy would
take five, eight year breaks in between
killings. Um the people were buying home
alarm systems like crazy, right? He gets
a job working for the alarm company.
>> Yeah, it's it's nice, right? Like you
know you're creating your own
opportunity,
>> guys. You're you're That's right. You're
This isn't a job. It's a lifestyle.
>> Yeah. [laughter] Got to start got to go
start selling gun. No, trust me. There's
going to be a spike this weekend. I
promise you. Are you sure? I'm sure.
>> Yeah. So, on April 4th, 1974, only three
months after the Otto murders, Raider
breaks into the home of 21-year-old
Katherine Bright, her 19-year-old
brother, Kevin Brite, was present and
fought back.
>> Oh, yeah. So, this Oh, go ahead. Sorry.
>> And that this is where Raiders got a gun
and he shoots Kevin in the head.
>> Kevin survives it and stumbles out of
the house and goes to get health. Goes
to get help. He'd been watching He'd
been watching her for several weeks.
Knew her schedule. Did not realize that
the brother was coming was coming into
town and and was going to be there. Had
no clue. Right. So, uh yeah. The So,
when he's tying up, he ties her up when
he and he ties up the No, he's trying to
tie the brother. Brother struggles. He
shoots him. First off, how confident do
you have to be that you could fire a gun
and nobody would come? Like if I fired a
gun in my house, I would feel like one
of my neighbors, somebody would call the
police.
>> This was a risky. This was daytime.
Yeah.
>> And he talks about this killing when he
gets arrested. He's like, "Yeah, this
was this was a tricky one."
>> Yeah.
>> This was I was kind of cowboy in this
one a little bit, you know?
>> So I, bro, to me, if I've had to fire
the gun, I'd just take off. I'm not He
hangs out. So he shoots the guy in the
head. He hits the ground. He's passed
out. He's done,
>> right? Thinks he's done.
>> Yeah. Thinks he's done. Then he goes
after the the sister. He is he goes
after the sister and he ties her up and
he's I don't want to say I want to say
her because he's not really doing
anything, right?
>> I mean he's he's masturbating.
>> Uh he's strangling her.
>> Oh yeah, he's strangling her. Um sorry,
but
>> while he jerks off.
>> I don't know.
>> So it's kind of like a reverse uh
autootic esphyxiation.
>> Either way, something's wrong.
Something's wrong with the guy. So, so
Kevin, the brother, right, isn't dead.
>> No. No. He wakes up like uh like Uma
Thurman and kill Bill.
>> Yeah. And basically takes off out
[snorts] the front door. And Raider
knows he took off.
>> Yeah.
>> And yet he still doesn't run away.
>> Doesn't run away. Continues to strangle.
Finish strangling
>> the the sister. Can you imagine?
>> She didn't die though. She didn't die
fast enough. And so he stabs her to
death. Oh, that's right. This, like I
said, strang like you said, strangling
takes much longer. It's minutes. This is
not 30 seconds like in the movies. This
is 2, three minutes minimum to cut off
circulation. And if you let go,
sometimes they'll come back.
>> Yeah.
>> So,
>> it's like edging,
>> right? [snorts]
>> Sorry.
>> Like and subscribe, ladies. Like and
subscribe.
>> So,
it wasn't working. He couldn't get this.
He couldn't get this broad to go under,
so he he used a knife to kill her.
>> So, he kills her
>> this with the second worst way to die.
>> Um, and then he bounces, but he also
puts her
>> in a super weird Like, when I say a
super weird position, I I I'm I'm
lacking the verbiage. It's like a
demonic It's like a demonic position
that's almost like
>> um God, Colby, help me out cuz I want
people to understand picture. Where did
you see Did he take a photo of this one?
They they drew up in the documentaries I
watched, they drew up the mocks of it.
Yeah, they mocked it up.
>> I thought Oh, okay. I thought maybe he
took a picture of this one, too.
>> Um, have you you've obviously seen
Seven. You've obviously seen the first
the first season of True Detective.
>> Seven, by the way. Seven was the [ __ ]
most amazing movie.
>> I can't watch that late at night cuz I'm
like I'm going to get scared. It's still
one of those things.
>> It's great. Yeah.
>> Uh,
>> did you know in Brad Pitts, by the way,
his contract?
>> You you've said you've told the story on
air maybe five times. Are you serious? I
love it. I love that he was [ __ ]
>> You love the story.
>> No, that Brad Pitt that he was like, I'm
if you you can't change this.
>> No, I know.
>> I love that.
>> I know that, Gramps. I'm just letting
you know.
>> Five times. Yes. That the head had to be
in the box.
>> Had to. Right. Had to. [laughter]
>> He another part of the script, too,
where he's running after like it changed
he changed the whole end of the movie.
>> Okay.
What was that?
I'm just telling you Brad Pit had juice
even back then.
>> Okay. So anyway,
>> um so you've also seen the first season
of True Detective.
>> No.
>> Okay. I guarantee you the writer looked
for inspiration uh with from the BTK
killer because it's like it's again it's
like devil worship.
>> It's like old imagery of these like
satanic
>> uh extraearly
beings, right? devil, you know, people
with devil's horns, wings or whatever.
Colobby, if you could you could help me
out here because I want to explain to
the people
>> the the sketches of BTK's murders.
>> Yeah. It's you're putting your victims
like like they do like a weird and it's
got the the legs are crossed like
>> Exactly.
>> Exactly.
>> It's super weird. Yeah.
>> Yeah. It's like demonic demonic uh
creatures and you're and so the the the
victims he would hang or or strangle
like he would arm would be over here,
their their arm arm over the head. Maybe
we could even pop that up on screen.
>> Yeah. And it's it's it's kind of like
this old
>> uh devil imagery. Uh and so he would try
to mimic that uh with with his victims.
By the way, this murder was not linked
to BTK until years later. So I think
this town had kind of a denial in
>> So he didn't immediately take
>> take credit for it. Oh,
>> he didn't always contact the press. He
only did it when he had to. In fact, I
want to say
>> Well, they have the one where he picks
the woman up and drives her way off in
the middle of [ __ ] nowhere, too.
Like, it it's a complete departure
totally from everything. And
>> and that's why he was able to stay out
on the street for so long, right?
>> I mean, this guy,
>> sometimes he wants to take credit,
sometimes he wants to throw the cops
off,
>> right? And and and when he sees he
switches up his patterns, right? So, I
mean, the guy was uh you know, the kind
of ingenious. Um, so that one he doesn't
cop to till years later. And I think and
so much time would pass, years sometimes
would pass between killings that when
the next killing happened, the town of
Witchah said, "Well,
>> yeah, they're not automatically.
>> Maybe they're not, maybe these aren't
BTK. These are just other home invasions
that happen all the time in Witchah." I
don't know how you don't see that as as
linked cuz the homicide rate in Witchah
is like nothing.
>> Yeah. So it's but anyways they convince
themselves that yeah okay there hasn't
been a murder a BTK murder in four years
so how can we call this one a
>> BT take him right they're not connecting
him right away so um uh plus he's having
Listen I think by this point he's I know
he he had his first kid and I think by
now he's got his his second daughter
right two two daughters
>> he has kids in yes in 1978 so he's
already killed
>> I don't five people by then, which is
wild. So, he's battling with himself.
Like, he really is two people. It's It's
almost a case of
>> uh is it schizophrenia? Is it bipolar?
Or is it complete like split
personality? It's it sounds like
>> you could probably say split
personality, which is um [ __ ] I forget
the illegal term for it, but uh um but
yeah, it's uh uh uh diversion
personality or I something like that.
But yeah, he's Yeah. No, there's
definitely a duality there. I mean,
let's face it, he's a loving father to
two daughters. A good husband. He's
>> active in the church.
>> active in the church, act active in the
Boy Scouts. And there was never any any
any nobody in the Boy Scouts says that
there's anything weird going on um in
the Boy Scouts. Like he's he's active in
the community. He's a good worker,
>> right?
>> I just have this hobby,
>> you know.
>> Yeah. So in 1977, March se So he he
Three years go by,
>> right?
>> Three years go by, uh, suspects, there's
never a serious suspect,
>> right?
>> Until these murders. Okay. Uh, on March
17th, 1977, Raider enters the home of
24year-old Shirley Vienn, a mother of
three in Witchah. He locks her children
in a bathroom before strangling Shirley
with a cord. Raider later said a ringing
telephone startled him into leaving
before he could harm the children who
were later freed and called police. So,
he got he did get scared. What's
interesting is a phone scared him this
time, but a guy running out with a
bullet in his head trying to find the
cops.
>> Yeah.
>> He's like, "No, I got to finish. I got
to finish.
>> I got 10 minutes."
>> Yeah.
>> Um
>> Yeah. What? What's So this one This is
the one where he he goes into the house
and he tells her that um he has a he has
a sexual problem. He first he says he's
going to rob her, right? I think he said
he's going to rob her. It's funny cuz
I've heard two different things. One,
cuz she's thinking he's just going to
rob me, but he tells her I have a sexual
I have a I have a sexual problem. Um,
and I need to he needs to, you know,
he's he he's going to jack off and tie
her up, but he needs to tie her up. So,
he ties her up. He puts the kids in the
thing there, but they're banging on the
door and [ __ ] right? Like, he gives
them he he builds some trust with her
because he's he's not going to tie up
the kids. I'll just I'll give them some
toys and put them in the bathroom. And
he does. And they're and they're locked
in the bathroom somehow. How? I don't
know. But and then he ties her up and he
does he he strangles her and then he
masturbates. And then he leaves, I
guess, because of the telephone. Um, and
then the kids eventually break out of
the uh of the bathroom somehow or
another. They get out of the bathroom.
>> But
>> this is not the case where or is it
where they think the husband did it?
>> That's that that was their only serious
suspect. I don't think
>> this is because the kids were there and
the kids know it's not dad. No, this is
I'm wondering I think this is the one
where she sits down with him and she
smokes a cigarette.
It's it's this one or another one I'll
say. And she smokes a cigarette and he
explains what's going to happen and what
he's going to do, but he'll let her go.
And she says, "Okay." She smokes a
cigarette. She goes, "Okay, well, let's
get rid of let's get this over with."
>> She's like, she's like, "This
that's [ __ ] up, but
>> yeah, let's get this over with.
>> Let's get this over with. puts it,
>> dude. How candid.
>> Puts it out on her [ __ ] [laughter] on
her.
>> He's like, Jesus, she's a [ __ ]
[ __ ] [clears throat] gangster.
[laughter]
>> I don't know if it's that if it's this
one or the next one.
>> Matt, should we role play?
>> No, we're good.
>> Listen,
what's your name? What's your name?
[laughter]
>> Nancy. Nancy, this is going to sound
[ __ ] crazy. And I
>> I'm going to need to tie you up and jack
off on you.
>> I got problems.
>> I got to jack off, right?
>> Okay. This is before. Yeah. Like like
And it's Witchah, so it's a dry county.
I can't go buy my anywhere.
I I'm going to tie you up and I'm I'm
gonna masturbate, but it's going to be
like 4 feet from you.
>> And I know it's creepy as [ __ ]
>> Get in on you.
>> It's creepy as [ __ ] I'm not going to by
the way. That's gross. That's That's
evil.
>> That's crazy.
>> But uh
>> I'm married, so I won't touch you.
>> Right. Yeah. No, no, no, no. I'm not
here to
>> I'm not here to like violate you or
anything like that. Like I'm I'm a
married Don't you see the ring? Like
what is wrong with you? I'm married.
>> Okay. I just got to get one off. This is
the only way I can blow a load.
>> Yeah.
>> And uh and look, you'll you're going to
be making dinner having a laugh after
this.
>> She's not though.
>> He was lying.
>> No, he was lying. He's a liar.
>> He's a liar.
>> So he he's neglected to mention that you
have to be tied up and strangled.
>> He doesn't mention he didn't mention
that till after they're tied up.
>> [ __ ]
>> That's what's wild is, and I I'm not
going to I'm not going to make a joke
about this. He would lie to get his
victims to to acquies to submit. And
then when they were already
incapacitated or or bound, he'd be like,
>> "I'm the BTK killer." Yeah.
>> And that's when they would know their
feet was was sealed. Fate was sealed.
>> Yeah. It's done. They're done. Horrible.
>> Yeah.
>> Horrible.
>> Yeah. So that this is how Nancy passes.
Surely passes. Um Witchaw Police Chief
Richard Lemon would later publicly
confirm a serial killer was active in
the city. Yeah, they have to admit it.
By this point, they have to admit it.
They put them together. We can't not say
anything at this point.
>> Yeah, exactly. It by 77, that's when the
the the residents of Witchah already
know that there is a killer in their
community. But now the cops have to
admit, yeah, we got a serial killer on
our hands. And by the way, the cops look
into the camera when they interview them
in like the 2000s where they're making
all these documentaries and they're
like,
>> yeah, we didn't have [ __ ] [laughter]
>> I love the honesty. We got no We ain't
got no leads. None. Call us. You know
something? Call us.
>> And they didn't call the feds till like
the 80s till like 10 people had died.
And we're like, can the FBI can you come
down here?
>> Yeah. The FBI didn't do any good either,
by the way. They're like, "But thank god
we're we're smarter than we're as at
least as smart as the FBI cuz they got
nothing either."
>> They showed up
>> and by this by the time they showed up,
they had a whole slew of [ __ ]
evidence they couldn't [clears throat]
pick it do anything,
>> right? Hey, can I explain something real
quick?
>> Sure. Um, and I don't know because I
there is no time frame. So there I'm
sure this is not in the outline. So uh
because this was just something that one
of uh that Dennis Raider
this is you know so when when they're
like did your wife ever know? No, she
had no idea. She had no idea. And
they're like did she ever suspect? He
said no. He said, "Well, one time when
they had printed the an a letter that he
had written in to the to the uh the
press and they had published it in the
newspaper.
The his wife, he was reading it the
newspaper and she looked over his
shoulder and saw a copy of the note and
she said, "Oh, wow. Look." She goes,
"That guy misspel misspells whatever the
word was just like you do." And he said,
and and so the detective is like,
"What'd you do?" He goes, "I actually
thought
>> I'm going to have to kill her right now.
Like I may have to kill her." And he
said, "But she never brought it up
again. I never heard about again. She
never questioned me. She never you." So
I obviously didn't have to do anything.
Here's another thing.
>> Yeah. Yeah. He's like,
>> "The wife had no idea." But
>> what do you think the word was there?
>> What?
>> There and there.
>> Yeah. There, there, and there.
[laughter]
So, here's the here's what's
interesting. You ever see the the the
Tik Toks where they're like, "If I win
the lottery, there will be signs,
right?" Yeah. You know, so,
>> uh, even though I tell no one. So for
him, you know, did you you know that he
used to bind he used to tie himself up
and take photographs of this is why I'm
saying this is why I'm saying it's like
not like this guy's got like a sick
fantasy like it's a minor sick fantasy
about this one thing like in general
he's just a weird sick sicko but is amaz
it's amazing that he can keep it from
everyone especially because
>> he's going out in the woods tying
himself up
on uh Boy Scout trips and photographing
himself bound and tied and hanging.
Sometimes he's hanging upside down,
sometimes he's bound. And one time he
ties himself up so well he can't get
himself out. And his fear is he's like
it took him forever to get himself
loose. He said, "My fear was that the
Boy Scout troop was going to come back
and they would have found me tied up."
And he's tied up in like women's
underwear. like he's got a g-string on
and a [ __ ] bra and he's naked and all
hairy and [ __ ] tied up. And so that's
one thing. The other thing is one time
>> he would also do this in he called them
motel parties. He'd go off into a motel
and he would do the same thing, tie
himself up in the motel, but on two
separate occasions
his wife came home and caught him tied
up. Like he would tie himself up. I
don't know if they had a basement or
whatever.
>> Honey, it I it was the BTK killer. I I
barely got away.
>> You're here. He just left. [laughter]
No, that that might have worked the
first time, but the second time she came
home, she sat down with him and said,
first, she was so healed. She was so
disgusted by my behavior. And the second
time she sat down and she said, if this
happens again, I will take the kids and
I will leave you. And he said, so I knew
at that point I couldn't do it in the
house anymore.
>> So you [snorts] had to go to motel and
stuff.
>> I can't do in the house anymore. I'M NOT
GOING TO CHANGE MY BEHAVIOR. I'm not
going to go see someone.
I can't you can't do in the house
anymore. That's when the motel party
started.
>> And by the way, these are these are
single man parties. Like nobody there's
nobody [laughter]
there's nobody else in the room.
>> The guy can have fun by himself. I love
that. I can have fun by myself.
>> I [ __ ] go to movies alone. I go to
diners alone. I love it.
Can
>> you imagine if his boy scout troop
caught him hanging from a tree tied up?
He's like, "These bears, dude. These
[ __ ] bears."
Oh, take a breath. Take a deep breath.
So, these happen in tranches, right?
Like, he takes years off and then he
kills kills kills. Like, he gets
multiple bodies in in one year. Okay.
>> I wonder what the I never got an
explanation for why. Although,
>> he's a Dude, he practices. He's
practicing himself tying up. He he's
trying to trying to satisfy that that
that
>> that itch
>> that that itch during this time period.
He gets to a point where he just he just
just can't do it and he's he's got to do
something. Right. Right. That's right.
But so yeah. So there's no real
>> catalyst. It's just
>> it just builds up to the point where the
the motel parties aren't kicking just
aren't doing it anymore. I can't do this
at the house.
>> Yeah.
>> My wife won't
>> Yeah. My [ __ ] [ __ ] of a wife won't
let me [ __ ] tie her up. She keeps
struggling. I can't wear my G-string.
>> Yeah.
>> Nobody understands me. If this guy had
just gone to LA, he might not have
killed anyone. He would have found
>> like-minded people.
>> Yeah. You know, he'd probably be running
like a hair salon. He'd be an old bear.
Um, so December 77, so he kills uh
Shirley Rian in April of 77. Okay.
[snorts] Um on December 8th, 77, Raider
strangles 25-year-old Nancy Fox in her
home. Now, this is where it starts to
get good. What's up?
>> I think is she alone? She's a single
woman alone, right?
>> Um Nancy,
>> we're gonna get to it.
>> Okay. Sorry.
>> Is she the one where she's I think she's
the one who's smoking the cigarette.
>> It's [ __ ] awesome. I hope that's
true. I want that to be true.
>> Um so, on [snorts] December 8th, 1977,
Raider strangles 25-year-old Nancy Fox
in her home. Now, this is where it
starts to get juicy. in chilling detail.
He called the police on himself
afterward and calmly reported the crime.
So, this is where we actually This is
the first and it's very grainy. Like,
you go back and listen to it on YouTube.
>> Horrible.
>> It's horrible quality. Like, nobody ran
it through a processor. It's
embarrassing. Okay. If he was working on
this show, he'd be fired.
>> Um,
>> but this is the first time that we
actually hear his voice.
>> Uh, I I'm not sure why. I think it's
just he wanted it had been a minute
since he had had communication with uh
with the media. Yeah. With with
authorities. So I think he just wanted
to kind of let these [ __ ] know
this is me. I'm still out here.
>> Is this the one that No, it was a letter
he one of the letters where he wrote how
many people do I have to murder before I
see my name in the paper.
>> Exactly. Exactly. So in Raider escalated
his communications after this killing.
Uh he wrote a poem referencing the the
the Shirley Vian murder which he sent to
the Witchah Eagle Beacon on January 3178
followed by a letter to K TV on February
1078 in which he coined the name BTK for
himself.
>> Was the poem any good?
>> So it was called the Shirley Locks poem.
Oh
>> okay.
>> Shirley Locks. Shirley Locks. Wilt thou
be mine? Thou shalt not scream. not yet
feel the line, but lay on cushion and
think of me and death and how it is
going to be.
>> And so when he mails this in, they mail
it to like the correspondence room. They
they ignore it. They don't realize the
significance of it. And that's why he
writes the second letter.
>> Ah, that makes sense.
>> To the
>> That makes sense.
>> Where he very specifically says,
>> I'm the BTK [ __ ]
>> Yeah. you guys aren't getting the uh the
poem
>> and they wouldn't connection
>> they didn't broadcast it for like
another year and a half uh after he
called in on August 15th 1979 police
broadcast the recorded BTK voice
publicly and received more than 100 tips
in a single day
>> yeah open's hoping
>> yeah and that's that's a common thing
they get all all kinds of tips in
nothing
>> how many tips
>> over 100 tips in a single day
>> can you imagine now like how how small
is this [ __ ] place 100 tips are you
kidding
I know
>> that's [snorts] nothing.
>> I know
>> you could. That's manageable.
>> They didn't have a description.
>> Yeah, they got nothing. They got
nothing. Here's what's interesting, too,
by the way. I don't know if this is the
one, but when he's mailing these
letters, he's actually photocopying the
letter
and then photocopying that letter and
then going to another machine of photo
and copying it and photocopying the copy
of the copy of the copy. So, he'd do it
five or six times to make it so
degraded.
>> Yes. And then he would fold them up
carefully and send them in.
>> Though the guy was And you know how he
got police? No, no, no. He would tell
them where they could find the letter.
He would leave letters at like the
public library.
>> Oh yeah. Yeah. That's right. Stick in a
book.
>> Yes. And then he would call them and
tell them where to find it. So the guy
was like the guy was aware that the FBI
had like this ability to trace, you
know, handwriting and where [ __ ] was.
>> He was good.
>> Yeah. And the other thing is at some
point, probably after they named him a
serial killer, he starts he starts
leaving clues in serial boxes.
[laughter]
Oh, Dennis. Um, and then he'd put it out
in the middle of nowhere and then tell
them where to go to find it.
>> Right. So, it's again, it's control.
Like, not only does he control his
victims and determine when he they're
allowed to die, when he's torturing
them, it's like he's controlling the
whole town.
>> Yeah.
>> You know what I mean?
>> Yeah. He's definitely got a um he's got
an issue. He's got a a I wonder if he
was controlling as like a father or you
know that sort of thing.
>> Yeah. I don't know if there's ever been
an interview with his family.
>> His his daughter wrote a book. She's got
a whole doc. She's got a doc.
>> Her literary agent was my first literary
agent.
>> No [ __ ]
>> Um my dad you he was just misunderstood.
No. Well, you know, she's kind of like
like she's like like this is like a
normal like
>> band. Like my understanding is she's as
shocked as anybody. There are like
little things that she remembers, but
>> nothing kind of like with the Boy
Scouts. One of the murders he he ends up
going it he he knows he's taking he's
going on a Boy Scout excursion. So he
wakes up early in the morning, goes and
commits the murder, comes back and then
spends the day with the Boy Scouts. So,
he's got a So, if anybody ever asks him,
he can say, "What are you talking about?
All day I was with the Boy Scouts."
>> And by the way, uh after a murder, uh he
barely gets away. He's in a public
bathroom washing his hands and there the
cops uh have like basically like a
roadblock,
>> right?
>> They have like a is that a call a
roadblock where they where they stop
cars. Yeah. Right. So, they have a
roadblock. He's got a bunch he has his
toolkit in his back seat
>> and photographs of the murder victim.
Right. Exactly. A cop asks him, "What
are you doing here? We, you know,
there's been a murder, blah, blah,
blah." He goes, "Oh, no. I'm with the
Boy Scouts. Uh, I'm just doing
something. I'm getting ready to go
back." Yeah. I'm running an errand for
the Boy Scouts. And that's enough to
where the cops cops don't even search
his car. And they would have pinned him.
And this was in the this was in 1991.
That was his last murder.
>> And he does not get caught for another
14- 15 years after that. Uh but before
we go before we get to how it concludes
after 1979,
[clears throat]
Raider doesn't kill for six years. So
there was one failed attempt. It well
actually two. First uh with the guy that
he shoots in the head, the brother Yeah.
of the murder victim. He gets away. Uh
in 79, Raider is waiting inside a
woman's home uh but leaves before she
returns later sending her a letter about
it.
>> He takes some stuff, too. He takes a few
things. Um, and then you're right, like
that's super antilimactic, right? Like
he's he thinks she's supposed to be home
at a typical time. She usually comes
home. She never comes home.
>> But he's
>> again that's he's waiting.
>> But he sticks to the script. Oh, plan's
off. Then then I'm aborting the mission,
right? Like it's what gets most people
caught in any kind of crime is not
sticking to the plan. So he was
disciplined with his killing. So he
leaves uh and doesn't kill for another
six years till 1985. Now during this
period, this is where he gets a job with
uh the security company.
>> Is it the
>> installing home system alarms in the in
the community?
>> So this is okay. So this is before cuz I
know at some point he does something
with like code enforcement or something.
>> Well, look, dude, he gets No, no, no. He
gets Yes, he has code is he's doing code
enforcement in the 70s after he gets
laid off from the aerospace company in
1979. That's when he gets his degree in
criminal justice from Witchah State and
then starts and then goes to work for
the uh security installation company.
>> Okay. How long does that last?
>> Uh
I think it lasts for a long time. Yeah,
>> cuz he's doing good at it.
>> At some point he starts to work for the
city doing code enforcement.
>> That's right.
>> That's when he does that.
>> And then he's he's his boy scout leader,
president of his church. So the late
70s, early 80s, he's really getting his
[ __ ] together. He staves it off. He
staves it off for six years. He staves
off the itch. Okay. Until April 27th,
1985.
Raider murders his own neighbor. Well,
how many of us, right? [snorts]
>> Well, I think
>> let he who cast the first stone, let he
without sin cast the first stone.
>> Perfect. Because I'm pretty sure she was
worked at the church with him,
>> right?
>> I think I think she's the one that they
he works at the church.
>> So 50
>> or is in the church somehow somehow he's
she's associated with the church at him.
Like she's like a volunteer or
something. I forget.
>> 53-year-old Marine Hedge in a crime he
privately Raider privately called
Project Cookie, killing her specifically
to see if he could get away with
murdering someone who lived only a few
houses away. Right. So, up until this
point, Raider has tried to keep Raider's
tried to not [ __ ] where he's eaten.
Right. He's tried to keep it all outside
of even though eat
>> where you [ __ ] But anyway, go ahead.
Yeah.
>> [ __ ] where you eat. No,
>> you don't. You don't eat where you [ __ ]
>> No, Colby. Oh, dude. Uh, let's bet
$1,000 on it.
>> No, you don't have that kind of money
yet.
>> No, it's [ __ ] where you eat.
>> Okay.
>> Because because you you want to eat,
right? Right.
>> So, you don't want to [ __ ] where you eat
cuz you're going to [ __ ] your meal up.
>> Okay. I could be wrong. I've been wrong
before.
>> You obviously
>> Well, that's good of me. That one time.
>> That's good of me. That one time you
were wrong. [laughter]
>> Colby.
>> Um, so who's who says what? I said it's
you don't [ __ ] where you eat.
>> He said I said you don't eat where you
[ __ ] So you don't eat where you eat.
>> I said the I say the phrase is you don't
[ __ ] where you eat.
>> Right.
>> It's what is it?
>> Don't [ __ ] where you eat. There you go.
>> Oh, okay.
>> Do not cause trouble, drama, or a mess
in a place where you live, hang out.
Exactly. Right.
>> So he finally shits where he eats.
>> He kills his 53-year-old neighbor,
Marine Hedge, uh to see if he can get
away with killing somebody a few houses
away. So he's he's like he wants to he
wants to go bigger, right? He wants to
challenge himself. He faked a headache
to leave a boy scout outing. Okay. So
he's out in the woods. That's his alibi.
Staged a fake alibi. He stages a fake
alibi. Alibi involving a bowling alley
and a taxi. Yeah. Yeah. He goes to the
bowling alley.
He changes. He drinks. He has a drink
and then he gets into a taxi like he's
drunk. Mhm.
>> I don't even understand this. And then
has the taxi drop him off in the middle
of the neighborhood.
>> Right. And then he walks back uh to his
street, breaks into Hedge's home, and
strangles her after she returned from an
evening out.
>> Right.
>> So, he's waiting for her. He
photographed her body at his own church.
>> He takes her to the church and
photographs
>> Mhm.
>> um her in the church. Now, I I think
>> all kinds of those demonic poses.
>> Yeah. it. So, I heard it was in the
basement, but then I also know that when
they got the photographs or they saw the
photographs, they were like the cops
were like, "This is in a church." So, I
don't know if church basements have a
certain look or something or if maybe
there was just stuff that looked
>> that they thought they thought for sure
this is in a church. Maybe there was
stuff in the church. I don't know. Like,
I don't think he brought her up in the
church.
>> No, there was a certain room where they
would hold uh meetings because remember
he was the president of like the church
council. Yeah.
>> So, he knew he had access to this,
>> right? He's got the keys.
>> Yeah. Exactly. So, um I don't know why
he wouldn't just do it at her home.
Maybe she didn't have a basement. Who
knows? Uh but so he takes all of these
de pictures of her in these crazy poses.
>> Ballsy is it to move the
>> Super ballsy. Super ballsy. And he knows
about DNA. I think he's learning about
DNA at this point in the 80s. Right. In
the 80s, it's starting to become a
science.
>> Yes. He knows that it's something that
they're a tool that they're going to be
able to use soon,
>> but still he's getting his DNA all over
[ __ ] Um, probably masturbated. We're
just going to assume masturbation is
part of that's always it's always a
sexual component unless he's being
chased off like unless he's interrupted
in the middle, which he was furious at.
He was furious about
>> um
>> that the the brother had taken off of
the one crime. He was furious because
he's like he had to hurry up and kill
that person and never got to
>> never got to do or masturbate, which is
what he wanted to do.
>> We've all had the blue balls. It's a
real thing. So, he photographs uh Marine
Hedge's body and all of those awful
satanic poses uh before dumping her in a
rural ditch. Brought her to a ditch,
tossed her in it. Um, Project Cookie,
the calculated nature of Project Cookie
was what Raider dubbed his own his own
murder. Uh, yeah, it's just risk
takingaking and planning,
>> right? By the way, drove her vehicle and
her husband was on his way home and he
said he he passed. He goes, "I thought I
passed my my vehicle drove right by me."
Like my wife's vehicle drove right by
me. He said, "But I did not recognize
the person in the car, you know, because
of the glare and everything, you
couldn't really tell who was in it, but
he remembers driving right by the
vehicle on his way home. It's a small
town. It's in the neighborhood.
>> He easily could have recognized Raider
>> if he's, you know, but you know, let's
face it, you don't you can't always get
a good clear."
>> Yeah, it's it's a night time. It's night
time. But this is definitely Well, maybe
with the exception of like the daytime
shooting of that guy and the and the
killing of his sister.
>> It's almost always in the daytime.
>> Yeah. But I would say this is probably
the riskiest riskiest murder.
>> Well, especially imagine if he's stuck.
Well, here's the problem. He always had
a weapon. He always had a gun. Sometimes
he's shooting people. Sometimes he's,
you know, killing them. But once again,
you know, things happen. The gun is for
control, right? He needs to get control
of these people.
>> Um, [clears throat] so that happens in
1985. So now, now we're off to the races
again. September 16th, 86,
a a project that he dubbs Project Piano.
So now he's dubbing like this is like
the Manhattan Project. He's like
Oenheimer, right? So Project Piano is
where he kills Vicky Weggerly. On
September 16th,86, Raider poses as a
telephone repair man
>> to gain entry into the home of
28-year-old Vicky Weggerly, a local
pianist, right? Hence Project Piano. Uh
he cuts the phone lines. This is where
he's really really crafty. So he's
>> I don't like being interrupted that
first time.
>> Exactly. That one time. That's right.
That's right. Where he got scared off by
the
>> phone mid old. That was scary though.
>> Yeah.
>> Back in the day.
>> Those phones.
>> Yeah.
>> Super loud, dude.
>> And if they go off in the middle of the
night, you're like, "Oh, something's
wrong."
>> Right. Like anytime somebody That's why
dads hated Remember old school dads. We
had old school dads. They hated to be
called after like 7 when the sun. Who
the [ __ ] is calling this house?
>> Who's calling at at night? .
Katie. That would be my sister.
>> Who's on the phone?
>> It's like it's like the world stopped.
The world stops for 12 hours until
tomorrow. Like, you know what I mean?
Like we had a slow pace of life. We ate
dinner every night at .
>> Right. Yeah. The Mitchell too. I was
listen I'm I'm the time when you came
home when the lights came on. When the
street lights came on, right? That was a
real that like that people joke about
that. That was a real thing for me when
street lights come home when street
lights come on. Like how do you guys
know when they come on? Like they timed
him, I guess.
>> Yeah. No, it's amazing. It's It's like
now we have to take Well, somebody we
could It could be an important call, but
back in the day they had important
calls, but they're like, "You do not
call this Call this [ __ ] in the
morning." Okay.
>> Call during business hours.
>> Yeah, you call during business hours,
[ __ ] You know what I mean? Just
better times. Better times. But anyways,
so he kills Vicky Wiggly, that [ __ ]
annoying pianist. I hate hearing the
sound of the piano. Even if it's
beautiful.
>> Was she a pianist? Is that
>> was a pianist? That's why I call project
piano. Okay.
>> You know what? Yeah. I'm such a piece of
[ __ ] when I I I'm on a plane and I hear
I hear the beautiful sound of a mother
tickling her her little infant to keep
it from crying. This was yesterday or
when I'm flying back from Baltimore and
and she's like, "Oh, that's a good boy."
Like the sound of life. The sound of the
the most beautiful sound is a mother
child. And I just go, "Shut the [ __ ]
goddamn [laughter] mother [ __ ] sucking
kid up. You [ __ ] who the [ __ ]
do you think you are?" A piano. Is there
anything more beautiful than good piano?
When I hear a neighbor playing the
piano, I I want to pull a [ __ ] Dennis
Raider. I want to go in and hit and hit
him with a [ __ ] bat, dude. Anyways,
uh he strangles her with panty hose.
>> Oh, okay.
>> This is he strangled with her own panty
hose. Not his his panty hose. No,
>> his
are mine.
I'm ruining my own panty hose for this.
Right. He strangles Vicky Wegley with
her own panty hose while her 2-year-old
child was home. Oh,
>> leaves. He leaves kill the baby, though.
>> Doesn't kill the baby. Um Yeah. But it's
wild. He used uh uh Now, by the way, she
she was suspicious when he knocks on her
door and says, "Hey, you have a problem
with the telephone,
>> right?"
>> Oh, she says, "My husband's going to be
home soon."
>> Yes, my husband's going to be home soon.
So, she's kind of following him. She
gets vi creepy vibes from this guy
immediately. And so she's kind of like
following him around the house, you
know, as she as he looks for the phone
or whatever. Um, so yeah, this is you
can imagine that the terror uh that this
woman had. So yeah, she suspected
something was up. This case would later
be forensically confirmed as a BTK
murder through DNA. So he didn't cop to
this one?
>> No, I'm sure he did. I'm sure.
>> But why would they have to confirm it
with DNA later?
>> They always confirm that. But you don't
want remember those two that that there
was two guys that were claiming uh
murders all over the country and they
found out that like half of them they
more than half of them like
>> it was impossible that they cops were
just bringing I forget these two [ __ ]
jerkoffs. They had the one guy had
killed several people and he did have a
buddy that was kind of like had like I
don't know like an 80 IQ or something so
he's kind of going along with it. He was
also there for murder in the prison. And
they decide that to get basically
hamburgers and French fries and
cigarettes. If we just start like they
both had like life sentences. Let's just
start admitting copying murders. And so
they end up for years driving the cops
are driving them all over the United
States and police departments are just
coming saying, "Hey, we got three
murders that we think you might have
committed." And they're like, "Oh yeah,
let me take a look." And they'd show
them pictures of, oh yeah, yeah, that
was uh uh uh that was by such and such
and yeah.
>> So they were just doing it to basically
clear murders off.
>> Clear murders and get hamburgers and
French fries and cigarettes.
>> So now they they don't let them do that.
You know, it's like
>> we're not just taking your word for it.
>> Yeah. We got to confirm this.
>> Okay. So I want to point out that Vicky
Wgley, the murder of Vicky Wgley,
her husband was the prime suspect in
this.
>> Oh yeah. Yeah. For for years.
>> Yes. For years. So this is really the
only suspect. And there's videotape of
the aftermath of this cuz he's he really
is on his way home.
>> There's videotape. The camera footage is
is wild. He's carrying their
two-year-old uh daughter with his dead
wife in the house. Crazy. But uh Yeah.
So they suspect him for a long time, but
>> uh he didn't do it.
>> Yeah.
>> And really he was the only sus he was
the only he was the only suspect in the
whole 40-year saga,
>> right? Um,
there you go. But after that, he doesn't
kill for a long time. He doesn't kill
for This is We're We're almost at his
last murder. He January 19th, 91, Raider
abducts. So, he waits another six years.
>> It's crazy. It's a cycle. It's But it's
it's cunning. It is a cycle, but it's
also him
>> switching things up. Him making sure
that he doesn't leave a trace. him
making sure
>> a lot of motel parties.
>> A lot of motel parties and
>> suppress the itch,
>> right? And he's also what he's doing is
he's leaving just enough bodies to where
the entire town just kind of stays
worried.
>> Yeah.
>> You know what I mean?
>> I bet that town was armed. Bet you there
was a lot more.
>> I bet you the uh the gun sales.
>> Yeah.
>> Absolutely. Absolutely. So, January
1991, Raider abducts 62-year-old Dolores
Davis from her home and strangles her
with her own panty hose again. Wow. This
is when women wore panty hoes. You know,
remember that? That was a weird
>> Yeah,
>> panty hoses were
>> women still wear panty hoes.
>> No, barely.
>> Yeah. Not Not like they used to, but
Yeah. Yeah. That's crazy.
>> They're out there.
>> That's crazy. Never understood why. Cuz
they don't want to show their bare legs.
>> I think they make them look smoother.
like you know there's no they look
>> so you don't have to shave your legs all
the time.
>> No, it's not. I don't think it's the
shaving. I think it's like you know if
you have bruises or discolorations or
they also make them look tan, pale so if
you have gross for Irish women if you
have gross disgusting varicose vein
legs.
>> Anyways, kills Dolores Davis with her
own goddamn pantyos. Uh January 19th 91.
He also abducts her. So c can you can
you go into this a little bit? Oh, is
this the one she he dumps her body?
>> That's right. She's found 13 days later
under a bridge,
>> right?
>> Interesting. So, every single crime is
different. It's got different elements
to it. I'm surprised this hasn't been a
movie. This has been a movie.
>> It's got to be a movie. I think it is a
movie.
>> No, there's not been any.
>> There's no BTK movie.
>> I don't Not a blockbuster. Not Not the
shine that it deserves.
>> Yeah. None of these are blockbusters.
No, but the [ __ ] the shows were think
about it on the Netflix shows
>> about uh about Bundy and about Dmer were
huge.
>> Okay.
>> Oh, yeah. This guy deserves his own I
mean, this guy deserves his own show.
>> We're going to option his life rights
and get this show made.
>> So, can you do you have any more detail
about the the Dolores Davis murder?
>> No. Okay.
>> I don't have any on this. [laughter]
>> Okay.
>> I don't have any on this one. I just
remember that that that he dumps the B
that he's he's
>> he's he's switching it up because he's
realizing that he's he's kind of doesn't
want to be uh caught, you know? He's
he's concerned. He's had some bad
>> some shit's gone wrong a couple of
times. So, he's he's getting a little
bit more um
>> he's got a little bit more wy than
taking credit for every single thing.
He's
>> chucking bodies and [ __ ]
>> So, after
>> does he take credit? He doesn't take
credit for this right away, does he?
>> No, he doesn't. after January 1991.
>> Right. Silence.
>> Is this one Does he also drive way off
to to to do this one? Like I think he
drives like 45 minutes or something,
>> right? He does. He does. He takes her
out of town and puts her under a [ __ ]
bridge. They don't find her for
>> He also drove
at a distance to go to her house. Most
of these places are not that far
>> from his house.
>> He tried to Somebody did like a heat map
of it. It's like within like three or
four miles,
which I know is not far.
>> Three or four miles. This one,
>> this one is further.
>> This one is further, but Witchah is a
small town, so four miles away is like
that's enough deniability. You know what
I mean? Like that's that could be almost
the other end of town. Uh especially
back in these days. It might have grown
since then, but point is after this
murder, he goes radio silent,
>> right?
>> For [ __ ] 13 years. 13 years. Like
what? You know, we've talked about why
serial killers, like there's probably
people walking around the United States
that are have bodies on them, serial
killers that just quit,
>> right? He's definitely aged out. He's
like 60, right?
>> No, by this time, by by 91, he is he's
50. No, he's only 45. He's born in 1945.
So he's 46 years old.
>> Okay.
>> So he's not that old, but
>> wait, when was he born?
>> He was born uh in 1945. So 91 brings us
that's 46.
>> Okay.
>> So, you know, he's not super old, but
>> how
>> he's not a young spring chicken either,
but he is getting older. He's got two
kids, right?
>> He's more and more at this point, his
kids are in their teens. He and his wife
are more are getting more involved in
the church. and um and volunteering at
the church.
>> Mhm.
>> [ __ ] amazing.
>> Amazing.
>> Um and so, you know, but
>> but that's not enough to keep a guy.
>> You think he has more time?
>> Of course.
>> That was the first that was the
>> He's an empty neester now. Kids are off
at college.
>> I don't think wife got a job.
>> They're in their teens. So, yeah, he
definitely um Anyway, so
>> but it's just f this is fascinating. I I
want I want to I want to hear more from
Dennis. Like, why did she
>> probably write a letter? I'm sure he
corresponds with anybody that's writing
him a letter.
>> That's why we need a Patreon.
>> He probably
>> to charge people for [ __ ] [ __ ] like
that. That's gold. You I guarantee he
gets fan mail all the time. He's got
nothing to do. He's He's in permanent
isolation. So he's of course he's going
to write back.
>> There's probably people that do nothing
but write letters to people like this
and probably have a whole group of those
letter or or you know what I'm saying?
We look into that. That's
>> I think I think we do that. I think we
do.
>> That's pretty pretty. Yeah, they might
have a whole bunch of stuff on old
Dennis,
>> but yeah. Why? So, you know, it's either
they're afraid of getting caught or they
age out of it.
>> I think I think it's a combination
probably those. He's one aging out of
it. First of all, 13 years from 90, what
was it? 91.
>> 91.
>> From 91 until what? In the 2000s, he's
definitely aging out, but by that point,
he's he's got to be in his late 50s,
early 60s.
>> So, yeah, he's almost 50. So in March
2004, by the way,
>> no, I'm saying during this time, he's
getting older and older. So it's not as,
let's face it, look, after, let's say,
after in your late 40s, like your sexual
desires are not nearly what they were in
your 20s and 30s.
>> God, I hope I get there soon. Anyways,
this is [ __ ] destroying my life. Um,
you right. Right. Sure, that's true. Um,
and right if this is all driven by
sexuality,
>> well, he definitely Did you watch the
>> because this is all orgasmic. Like I
don't want to get gross here, but like
but it is
>> this is a buildup and a release.
>> So when they're when they're questioning
him during his uh sent or during I don't
know if it was sentencing because we we
he knew what he was getting, but when he
goes to court and he he has to admit to
everything he was doing, right? So he's
asking him I don't know if it was a
judge that was asking him questions or
was it the prosecutor but
he's like yeah and then I I I killed her
and um and they go and then what'd you
do? He said uh well then I masturbated.
Uh he said [snorts] I had a sexual
fantasy and I masturbated and then and
this was constantly the whole time he's
talking and they were like why did you
pick her? He goes it was a sexual
fantasy. He said all of this is based on
just sexual fantasy.
So every single time he was doing it to
fulfill some kind of a sexual fantasy.
So it's all sexual based,
>> right? So you're right. Okay, then that
could explain a lot of it. It's like,
hey, I I have some sexual dimminion. I'm
46 now. Um I it's it's getting harder to
get away with it, right? Because now we
know about all kinds of DNA evidence and
and he wants to stay out. Uh, and I can
just go throw myself some motel parties
and wear my panties and jerk off and and
he's got enough in the spank bank too
now to where he can just keep kind of
rocking and not have to kill people.
>> And the desire is not as as probably
probably is as uh it's probably
um
I don't know whatever
>> demonian that was the purpose of that
word.
>> I didn't know what that word meant.
>> Yeah, it just means like yeah you sexual
it's dimin it's yeah decreased
>> decreasing. Yeah, he is sexual
decreasing. That's better.
>> So, he would have gotten away with this
[ __ ]
>> I think you made that word up. Is that
really Well, but remember you challenged
me on the [ __ ] where you eat and look
there's no money on you.
>> Face planted face [laughter] up.
>> Demiian deian. This is all staying in.
This is all staying in now. Now,
>> would he dim Demonian means a reduction,
decrease, or lessening in size, value,
or importance? Boom. There we go.
>> Okay. Now, do you think
I mean he [ __ ] of course he would
have got away with this [ __ ] cuz they
have his dry jizz now. So, it's 2004.
>> It's got to catch up to him eventually.
>> No, because unless he gets arrested.
>> No. No. If is
>> how would they have got him if he had
never given over his DNA?
>> His daughter gives a DNA. The kids give
a DNA. His his his brother-in-law
[snorts]
or anybody that's connected to him.
These people, some of these people are
giving DNA that are seven and eight
generations or or seven or eight
different uh whatever you want to call
them uh legs or branches away. Some of
these people are like you got like a
cousin.
>> Okay. So, if his cousin
>> So, if Dennis Raider's daughter, if if
>> not even the daughter,
>> okay, his it could be it could be his
his brother or his cousin or anybody
that has DNA similar to him. in 2012.
His Dennis Raiders's got a cousin who
goes and does
>> more not re That's more recently, but
but but these are the ones, let's say
late teens. This has been possible since
let's say let's say the Yeah. Okay.
>> Okay. Okay. late late teens in 2016.
>> Yes.
>> Dennis Rder's cousin, first cousin says,
"You know what? I want to see where my
my family where my ancestors come from."
>> It goes in the system
>> and they go he does 23 and me. He
submits his DNA.
>> Yeah. They've got Dennis Raiders come
from 1990 197374,
>> right?
>> They could they could match that.
>> Absolutely.
>> Like automatically match it.
>> No. No. The cops would probably
>> or they have to be looking for it.
>> They'd have to be looking for it. But
that's what's happening. There's there's
a
>> there's a there's a whole TV show right
now based on re in the last two or three
years. There's a company that that the
police are going to and are saying,
"Hey, we have DNA from 25 years ago or
30 years ago." And they are, matter of
fact, they were at Crime Con. Remember
the people in Crime Con?
>> The the remember they had the really big
big I said, I just watched a TV show
about them last night. So, and what
they're doing is they're going to these
public data because anytime you give
your anytime you give your saliva to to
one of these databases, you're
automatically entering yourself into
this system. So, they will go and they
will get a sample. So, they'll get a
sample from a homicide from 15 or 20 or
30 or 45 years ago. Matter of fact, I'll
tell you one of them right now is the uh
the um kind of like like the golden the
golden killer or um and there's a lot
more that are even more recent where the
guy never did anything but they f they
track him all the way down from one of
his like like a a a second cousin or a
third cousin went into the database.
>> Okay. But right
>> this is what this is what the woman
said. She said with 3% of with 3% of a
society.
She said that if 3% of the world
population enters into these systems, I
can find anybody. Three, I just need we
need 3% of people.
>> Wow.
>> She said and she said in the United
States, she said we're there already.
And she said we're almost there in
Europe. She said we're literally and
when I saw this program, which was a few
months ago, she said we're within a few
months of being at 3% of the of the
European can find any cold case like any
talk about specifically about cold
cases.
>> Yeah, she can track your DNA, anybody's
DNA whether they've entered the system
or not just because of the amount of DNA
that a population has had because that's
how inter intermingled
our DNA with every
>> Okay. So, but they would have to be
looking for like the police. Okay. So,
so Dennis Raiders's cousin in this
theoretical situation in 2018's like
submits his DNA for 23 and me, right?
>> Mhm.
>> Uh, the police would have to be the
police would have to find that. They
would have to know to look to try to
match that DNA to
the sample and say, "Hey, can you track
who this person is?" And then they say,
"Okay,
>> based on this sample,"
>> and then they can track them all the way
through the system. and they go, "It's
got to be it's the child of these two
parents. They had four children. These
these two guys are dead. This was a
woman. This is the guy's. It's a man.
It's him." Okay.
>> And then and literally, if you watch the
thing, it's [ __ ] amazing cuz then
they'll go and they'll just watch the
guy for [ __ ] 4 days. And when he goes
and throws out a [ __ ] beer can or
something, they scoop it up and they
match it.
>> Match it and go, "Well, definitely him."
Like we
>> Right. But but there was no suspecting
Dennis, man.
>> No,
>> there was no if Dennis hadn't basically
turned himself in as you're we're about
to hear how he gets caught. If he hadn't
snitched on himself, dude, we might
never be doing a podcast episode about
it. Don't you think? I think he would
have got away with it.
>> If he hadn't had the communication with
the um with if he hadn't been trying to
communicate with the authorities as a
result of his book, because that's how
this kind of happens is they do the
Would you say the 40th? Yes. Uh, yes.
It's the 40th anniversary. Now we're
It's March 2004 after 13 years of not a
silence. Okay. It's the It's the 40th
anniversary of the first BTK killing.
>> Theos, right?
>> Yes. The OTON, the local newspaper.
>> That's right.
>> The Gazette. I'm show I don't know if
it's
>> It's the Witchaw Eagle. Actually, the
Gazette's the Gazette's a good call,
though. Uh, it's either the It's either
the Eagle or the Gazette. Always. Um, a
letter arrives at the Witchaw Eagle
containing a photocopy of Vicky
Wagggerly's stolen driver's license and
photos of her body. Okay. Vicky Wggerly
is a case from the8s, right?
>> Um, now, yes, at this time, the 40th
anniversary, a local crime junkie, just
a local citizen of Witchah who's lived
through all the these years of murders,
is getting ready to write a book about
the BTK killings,
>> right? So, he hears about it. Dennis
reads this newspaper article on the 40th
anniversary of the first murder by BTK
and in the article they talk about how
there's a yeah local person who's going
who's about to start or is working on a
true crime book about BTK and he's
upset. You would think he'd be like
nice.
>> Yeah.
>> But he's he's upset about it.
>> He wants people to know that.
>> Yeah. He wants to be a little I want to
have first uh first writer first
refusal. I want to have an editor's pass
on this.
>> Right. He Yeah. He wants to have a
editorial um
>> control.
>> Control.
>> Yeah.
>> So, yeah. So, he he contacts the what
the local police or the newspaper.
>> Uh he first sends it into the the paper,
sends a photocopy of Vicky Waggle's
stolen driver's license, and then he
starts uh sending all different kinds of
clues like he goes crazy, right? Again,
his ego,
>> right?
>> Ego, man's ego. Uh he's taunting the the
press often using serial boxes to hold
drawings, writings, and momentos. Proof
proof that I'm still alive. And you want
to write a book that's accurate, you got
to go through me, basically. Um he makes
a critical mistake.
Raider asks police through a note
whether a floppy disc could be traced
back to him if he sent one. He asked
that through a note. If you remember
floppy discs, right, the 90s and early
2000s, police answered through a
classifi a classified newspaper ad,
falsely assuring him that it would be
safe. That's crazy.
>> That's crazy. The cops can lie to you?
>> Yeah.
>> No, that's not true.
>> The police would never mislead a a
suspect ever. Anything they say is
always accurate. They're not allowed to
mislead you.
>> Literally, when I'm watching a
documentary, a cop says that. He's like,
"The police are not allowed to lie to
you."
I'm like, "You are lying to me right
now, sir. You are gaslighting me." Not
only they're allowed to, they they're
they're mandated to do it. [laughter]
>> Um, except if you're chasing a serial
killer. I'm like, "I'm sure that's not
in the books, you dumb cop." Uh,
anyways,
>> uh, so Raider stupidly uh, mails them
back a floppy disc,
>> which was traced to the church where he
served as council president, right, back
in the 70s and 80s and 90s. This led
directly to matching his DNA to Seaman
recovered from the original 1974 Otero
crime scene. Well, they they get the
disc and when they check the disc, um
they're do their forensic, you know,
computer analysis, whatever. They
basically see that it had been sold to
the the local what church is it? It's
they're they're like a Presbyterian or
something like the local like a pres the
local Presbyterian church and they see
that the last person that saved on the
disc was a guy named Dennis.
>> Mhm.
>> And so they go onto the website and they
check the local Presbyterian church and
sure enough the president is Dennis
Raider.
>> They look at him and they go, "Oo,
that's him." And yeah, so at that point
that's when they go and they don't they
get his DNA first? Like they follow him
and get DNA? Do they get DN? No, no, no.
I know what they do.
>> They follow him to the Home Depot.
>> No, no, no, no, no. They go to the They
figure out somehow they go to the local
um they follow his daughter to the local
hospital and or medical place and she
had a and I'm going to say this. I don't
know what it is. It's not like a
papsmear. She had some kind of a smear
done, right? Like a girly thing. And
they go and they go, "We need that. Can
we get that?" And they took it
[laughter] and they [snorts]
so sick.
>> Yeah. Anyways, he's [laughter] guilty.
So, they take it and they stick it in a
little tube and they and they they check
it with
>> and [snorts] they do a thing and they
say, "Absolutely, the semen came from
someone who is related to this person
and that's it." And now they got him and
then they follow him.
>> They follow him home one day.
>> Yeah, that's right. That's right. But I
What was about the What about something?
Home Depot had some part to play in
this. I don't know what it was.
>> I don't know. But I know he I know he's
going home. I want to say he went home
from work or church. He's going he's on
his way home to have lunch with his
wife.
>> Ever a faithful husband.
>> He's a good husband.
>> Ever a faithful husband
>> full time.
>> I mean with the And think about it. If
you asked his wife, she'd be like,
"Listen, other than the times I came
[laughter] home, he was tied up.
>> He was tied up. [clears throat]
>> We hit a couple rough patches, but we
worked through it. [laughter]
>> Sweetie, what are you doing? Can you get
this,
>> baby? Baby, I'm stuck. Walks over and
grabs him by the hair of his chest. Told
you TO STOP THIS. OH, OKAY. OKAY. OKAY.
>> Not the nipple hair.
>> So, [snorts] anyway, he So, yeah, she
she they pull him over and they say,
"Uh, yeah. Hey, Dennis, hop out of the
car." And they they arrest him and put
the cuffs on him. And
>> with the cuffs on him,
>> you know what he says? You know what he
says? He says, "Can you have somebody go
to my house and let my wife know I will
not be coming home for lunch?"
>> Right. I want that kind of love.
>> Romantic. Romantic.
>> Hey, does this even under Does this even
exist anymore? This kind of love.
>> No. And if I told that to to Jess, she
would she would say,
>> "See, he's a nice guy. Like, why can't
you be thoughtful like that?" Dude,
women would literally rather have you
come home for lunch to get take them out
and you be a serial killer than, god
forbid, you have some guy time
>> and you just you just pay the bills. You
know what I mean?
>> Yeah.
>> It's just
>> it's where I'm at,
>> bro. It's where I'm at,
>> bro. I don't want to be I don't want I
don't want to get more DMs from
middle-aged women saying that I I don't
respect them. Yeah. So, we're just going
to leave it at that. Dennis had some
good qualities and that's just what it
is. Okay. [laughter]
>> Oh my god.
>> Okay. Come on.
>> All right. So, he's officially he's
officially arrested and arraigned uh
February 2005.
>> We do need to check the female what the
female ratio female to male ratio is now
cuz I haven't checked in like in a in a
month or two.
>> I'm scared to look. I think it's I think
we've I think we've digressed a little
bit uh or we've uh uh regressed a little
bit. But anyways, uh, confesses quickly
to all 10 murders. Right now, they think
>> years later he's locked up in the box.
>> Did you see the interview with him where
they're like, he's like, "Anyway, uh,
they said, "Well, we got your DNA. We
got this, we got that, we got," and he
goes,
>> "Any way to beat the DNA?" And they go,
"NO, [laughter]
>> he's like he's still thinking these guys
are going to are going to answer the
questions correctly."
>> He's so trusting of law enforcement. He
loves his first. Hey, is it Can you guys
trace it if I send in a floppy disc? No.
Great.
>> Yeah. Hey, c can you beat this DNA
thing? What are my chances of
[snorts] He is so matterof fact. He's
like, "Yeah, yeah. When I did her, I
thought she was dead. I thought she was
dead. I was scared out of my mind that I
was going to get arrested." Like, he's
so uh just he's just so basic. He's just
a basic Midwest
>> mouth breather.
>> At one point he goes, "They they can you
explain that?" He goes, "Yeah." He said,
"You know, that was complic that's a
little complicated." He goes, "Hold on a
second. Let me think about this."
>> Yeah.
Yeah.
>> Yeah. [snorts] I think what happened was
when I first went in and he he's just
like you're like this is just a normal
goofball. Like this is just a
>> just a just he's he's a fly. He's paint
drying on a wall.
>> I love that. That's why his friends his
friends growing up were like he was
never exceptional. Well, he wasn't bad,
but he was never exceptional at
anything. He was just kind of there.
>> I never wanted to be that guy.
>> No.
>> You know, you remember that kid who was
just you're like, you're not good or
bad, negative or positive. You're just
taking up space.
>> Mhm.
>> H And that's why he went on to become
something again. Man and his ego, he
wants to he wanted to leave his mark. He
definitely left his mark. People will be
Yeah. When you mark, that's how he got
caught.
>> When you list serial killers from here
on out, he will always be He's up there.
He's like probably top 10.
>> I think he's definitely top 10. And it
just again the fact that he doesn't
really make the the top five list when
you talk about most famous serial
killers. Again, it's it's it's the
Bundy's, the Dawners, etc., etc., right?
Gayy, of course.
>> Um, but BTK is this guy is it. And
what's so crazy is like I'm watching
these documentaries and the cops are
like, "We finally did it. You didn't do
[ __ ] You barely he he he got the ball
right up to the goal line and you just
tapped it in. He turned himself in
essentially. You know what I mean?
>> Yeah. Yeah. No, if he if if he had a
little bit less ego he and just didn't
didn't want to be a part of his book.
>> Yeah. then he could have just pro I
don't know if he could have written it
out because honestly at some point in
the future somebody that connected to
him would have entered in the database
and they would have at some point they
would have said hey let's go ahead let's
see if the database has been
>> updated let's reput this guy's uh DNA in
it once they have the profile they can
just keep checking it periodically I
don't know if it automatically does it I
think they have to go back and and ask
but let's face it they did that every 5
years at some point they're going to
come back and say Oh,
>> maybe they could have isolated. Okay,
the killer was is this age. Let's take
every guy in Witchah who's still alive.
Let's
>> They're already
>> put them in a block and let's just run
this DNA.
>> But but at this time they weren't. They
are now. Now they can practically
they're they're they're at a point where
damn if they're not close.
>> Have you seen these facial like they can
tell like everything? The length of your
nose, the color of your eyes, the your
eyebrows. Does he have this kind of
forehead? Like it's [ __ ] insane how
accurate some of the photographs or that
the the composits that they can come up
with based on your DNA and what the real
person looks like.
>> So Raider, I mean, uh, he is sentenced
to 10 consecutive life terms. They
didn't reinstate the death penalty in
Kansas until 1994. So all of his murders
were before then. So he was not eligible
to be executed. Um, he's got a minimum
175 years and he's currently at the El
Dorado Correctional Facility. So, one of
the things I saw recently of a recent uh
documentary is that they are they
believe that there is another murder
that he's responsible to, which is odd
to me because it doesn't seem like he
was holding back. Like, why wouldn't he
admit to that?
>> Well, you would hold it back because you
want
>> you still want people to talk about you,
right? Well, like if you if you coped
all your murders, the book's kind of
closed on you, right?
>> You're just now you're just doing your
time. This is a way for him to come
back, get some h get some Burger King,
maybe get a McDonald's.
>> And it's and it's to get this like
pretty, you know,
>> stay relevant.
>> Yeah. The the the the lady, she's like a
true crime documentarian. Yeah. You
know, some weird blonde lady, morbid. Uh
it's a way to get her coming back. It's
a way to talk to people, you know, like,
oh yeah, I might have I might have had a
few more. I would do it. So, it's it's
certainly possible. I don't really
believe it, though.
>> What do you think he he does when they
come in and and they lay it all out? He
goes,
>> "OH,
>> TOTALLY FORGOT about her."
>> Wow.
>> Jennifer, you know what bothered me?
When he's doing his kind of I don't what
is it like an alocution? What what is it
when he's talking when he's telling
everybody?
>> Yeah.
>> It's just weird. But he was he's calling
like the children like by their names.
Well, that's when Bobby did this or
that. Well, Jennifer, that really it's
like don't just it it just it
>> it's so familiar.
>> It is very for Well, that's that's when
Yeah. Well, that's when Jennifer uh came
into the room and uh little Susie was
and it was just like
>> how does he know their names, I guess,
cuz he remembers them from the press cuz
it's all over the news
>> probably. And it's been in all of his
discovery. Keep in mind for him that's a
that's a thrill. Yeah.
>> To read these things about himself. So,
he's got to know the each one. Um but
yeah, it's it's disturbing uh in in
general and that his like you said the
the familiarity of him and the victims.
It's it was distur it's disturbing to
watch him and you know it was two days
of two days of court with the victims
families there. Yeah. and he's he's
basically being questioned in open court
about each murder and he is without
getting too gruesome he's pretty uh
>> candid pretty Yes. Yes. Absolutely.
>> Yeah. No, detail by detail. Yeah. It
takes a full like two 10our days.
>> Yeah. In court.
>> It's Yeah. People are there. It's
[ __ ] cry. And they of course they get
up too and they say their their peace,
but you know it always kills me when
they say when they're like you know I
want you to you know I hope
[clears throat] you well one the
suffering okay but the it's the you know
I hope you feel horrible and I like
anytime they say like I hope you feel
this or you
>> oh you don't know anything about what's
going on in my mind right
>> I explain to you like I have two
personality the darkness
he he doesn't feel bad he doesn't
>> you know he just he's you know he's and
he's so
>> he feels bad that he got caught maybe
because his wife and kids right the wife
divorced him immediately as soon as he
got arrested like the next day or
something.
>> So yeah he he must feel bad that he got
caught but I don't know the guy had a
hell of a run. Uh that's what we're name
is hell that's the name of the movie is
hell of a run. You
>> think they'll ever
>> Dennis Raider story.
>> Do you think they'll ever find that last
murder that they say that he maybe did?
Do you think he'll ever confess to it?
>> Well I think there's something that
connects him to it. Like I I believe
there was DNA. I mean, you're saying I
don't believe it, but I I and I wish I
had had paid more attention, but he
wasn't he wasn't charged with it yet.
So, they were still saying, but there
was a there was a definite connection
there. I want to say maybe it was DNA.
It was something that connected him to
the house, which was a distance away.
And so, but like I said, it's it's odd
that he wouldn't have taken uh taken
credit for it, but you know, like but
you know, maybe you're right. Maybe
maybe there's a reason he didn't. He's
holding out.
>> Yeah. Um, wow. Wow. What a life. The
life and times. Uh, one of the greatest,
one of the most requested. Guys, we're
here for you on this show. We are here
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>> See you next time. Thea.
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