In the next minute alone, there's going
to be over 2500 videos uploaded to
YouTube. That's over 2 million videos a
day. So, if you're someone who wants to
start or grow a YouTube channel, how do
you stand out? We've asked that question
to hundreds of professional YouTubers
over the past 10 years. And we pulled
out 38 minutes of the best advice from
the Colin Spear Show. YouTube is not a
video platform. It's a it's a click and
watch platform. It's a platform that
people have to decide what to view. Even
when you compare it to other video
platforms like Tik Tok, Tik Tok feeds
you content based on your algorithm,
based on your watch history, and they're
really good at it. But YouTube long form
at least is still a decision platform.
So to me, like the first step is always
just like really nailing down what ideas
we're going to make for a channel. So
when I think about these smaller
channels that are growing really
quickly, it's usually that they have
actually invested more time into
ideiation. I recently had a channel in
our accelerator program, Ian Lur Astro.
He's an astrophotography channel and
there was nothing terribly wrong with
how he was making the videos. Like the
videos were pretty good, but they were
doing 2 or 3,000 views a video. And I'd
love to take a lot of credit for it, but
the reality of it is is we were just
like, "Hey, like spend more time on
ideation, study what's working in other
niches, try to build a video that we
define as having a CCN fit. It hits the
core audience, hits the casual audience
and it hits the new audience all at the
same time, which sounds easy, but it's
actually quite hard because sometimes
what's really interesting to a new
audience alienates a core audience. And
sometimes what's um really interesting
to a core audience is just narrowing the
the total potential market the video can
hit. He changed it from maybe being a
situation where he was spending 5% of
time on idea title thumbnail to maybe
spending 30% of time on idea title
thumbnail. and he made a video that got
a million views and did I think 270
times his average viewership just a
video just with astrophotography at
different time levels and it was built
on a format that had worked for other
people like uh it was really interesting
to see just how big of a multiplier
YouTube can be.
>> Can you break down why that title
thumbnail works as opposed to like I
photographed the Milky Way? I think
because immediately that poses like an
interesting question of like what do the
different levels of time investment look
like for this thing. There's also like a
clear comparison whether it be a body
transformation whether it be like a $1
jet versus like a hundred billion dollar
jet or whatever. I think viewers are
just fascinated by comparisons and
seeing how different things take
different amounts of time or investment.
Mhm.
>> And also that format makes for a really
interesting thumbnail because you can
show
>> the different levels of effort and how
that photo ends up coming out. But those
little differences can just have such
outsiz returns which I it breaks my
brain sometimes. We worked with this
creator uh his name was Tim Gabe and he
had a video which was six UI hacks and
someone on my team helped advise him on
just like a tiny thumbnail change. And
the difference between the thumbnail he
had before and the thumbnail he had
afterwards was I would say maybe it was
like 30 40% better the one afterwards.
Like it wasn't a huge difference but the
video ended up getting 40 times more
views per day. And that's what breaks my
brain. And I think what a lot of
creators like fail to realize is how
much of a difference those small details
can make. Sometimes it is about just
like realizing where you need to invest
more time and focus and just improving
those little details. If you want to be
a successful creator, you have to
embrace the fact that your audience is
not only the final audience, but they're
also your focus group. Traditional
media, you've got the focus group and
then you've got the intended audience.
That distinction goes away. They are
your fans are your focus group and if
you don't listen to them, you're you're
not going to be a successful creator
long term. There's two aspects to your
your content. There's the product and
there's the performance. And a lot of
really, you know, creatively purist
people can never accept that the
performance of the content. And so
therefore, like the marketing, the title
and the thumbnail
>> are important and potentially just as
important or more important than the
content itself. Now, we've always said
the content is king and we want to have
a great product and we're never going to
let that suffer.
>> But getting people to watch that is such
an important part of it. If you don't
embrace the the quality of the product
and then the performance itself of that
product, you it just can't happen. It's
you're going to lose too much steam. We
have like the most uptight process for
launching a new YouTube channel that
I've ever heard of. And we had
basically, for lack of a better term,
like an actual playbook. And it comes
from just an overweening amount of
preparation ahead of time. We research
every vertical that we go into. We watch
everything in that vertical. We
understand how the hosts talk to the
audiences. We understand the colors they
use, how long they episodes are, how
often they post, what their opening
lines are, whether they have a theme
song or not, what their titles include,
do their titles include punctuation, do
their thumbnails involve a white stroke
on the outside of everyone's head,
whatever it is, we know everything about
the vertical before we even decide to go
into it. And then from there, we decide,
okay, can we play in this space? Where
um where aren't people saying the things
that we would like to say? Are there
enough collaborators in this space that
we think we could be part of a community
in this ecosystem? And then from there
it's like okay what would we actually
say? And we come up with literally a
year's worth of content titles and log
lines if you don't have if you don't
have and I mean maybe more than that. It
was about 100 titles and log lines.
>> Yeah. And then from there you know going
back to the playbook idea it's once
we've kind of developed all this list
once we've done all this research and
once we're kind of got the go-ahad. We
have to launch with five videos, like
day one, five videos. It's not launch on
an empty channel. It's not here's the
only one. It's five videos that within
those five videos give you the thesis of
the channel. Here are the range of
things we're going to talk about. Here's
how they're going to look. Here's how
they're going to sound. Here's an
episode about hygiene. Here's an episode
about clothing and personal style.
Here's an episode about, you know, a
real life experiment where we do
something wacky like try to kill you
with a high heel, you know. And here's
>> something did really well.
>> They did great. People were really
excited to kill things with with high
heels.
>> Yeah. And when we're when we're going in
for an actual channel launch, we also
focus all of the attention on it, right?
Um Style Theory is a great example. We
got to a million subscribers in 62
hours, right? Yeah. Because we
intentionally sent people to a channel
with everything we had from every other
channel. We pointed straight at it and
said, "Go watch this right now." And we
when they landed there, they landed on
five 20 minute episodes. If you make it
through all those episodes, it's a 100
minutes of watch time on a brand new
channel. We actually got we got got
flagged or something. YouTube thought we
were like spamming. They like tried to
demonetize the channel. There were like
problems early on because YouTube's like
internal systems like couldn't handle
all of the watch minutes that were
suddenly flooding to this new channel.
That was that's super interesting. I
think
>> we have like some principles of a good
YouTube intro. From what we've seen,
>> upon click, the first seven seconds of a
video is about confirming the click.
It's just like, is this matching my
expectations
>> or is it clickbait? You mean?
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> So, basically our first rule
>> or even is it just slightly off?
>> Got it.
>> Right. Like, did they stretch just even
a little bit further than what I was
expecting?
>> Cool. So,
>> or is Mark Robber not there kind of
that'd be a good example.
>> Exactly. Or is Mark Robber on Zoom,
>> right?
I'm going to send him a recipe and see
that immediately that's a different
pizza that's exploding like a volcano in
the thumbnail, right?
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> And so then in the first 7 seconds
basically I see, okay, Mark's actually
there with you. That's super important.
The next like 10 seconds we talk about
making it personal. So like why are you
the one to make him a master chef? So
you're about to take him to an intense
super culinary boot camp. you're in the
chef's coat. If I don't know who you
are, I immediately assume, all right,
this guy's a legit chef.
>> And then basically by, you know, we
typically say by 30 seconds, but you do
this at 15 seconds, you have to
introduce a new hook.
>> Yep.
>> And so what you do here is you say, and
we're going to take him through three
tests that he has to pass.
>> I think important too that the audience
now knows what they're waiting for.
>> Yeah. There's uh we were just in New
York and we were talking to uh Max
Joseph. He was talking about how every
great story needs an A to Z. So the
audience needs to be informed. What is A
and what is Z?
>> Yeah.
>> And Z meaning like when is the video
over? And so you introduce these three
challenges and you go
>> once he does these three,
>> that's when the video is over. If he
hasn't done the three, the video is not
over.
>> Yep.
>> And we're seeing this a lot. Like Robber
does it uh Jimmy does this a lot in his
videos where we call it like the video
game map.
>> Yeah. where they kind of zoom out and
they're like, "But that's one of six
challenges that we're doing in this
video, right?" And they zoom out and you
go, "Oh, cool. I want to get there."
>> Yeah.
>> The the A Toz map.
>> Those graphics like people are using
those kind of flashy intense I I I don't
take it quite that far where I'm doing
the really crazy VFX and that kind of
thing.
>> But I I mean I think it's really cool.
>> Everything is a list. Um this is some
like you know in I think this is advice
from like non-fiction writing.
Fundamentally, every non-fiction book is
a listical. It's just like sometimes
packaged up in a non-listical kind of
way. Atomic habits is a listical. The
four habits of behavior change. The four
Work Week is a listical. Everything is a
listical at the end of the day.
>> Interesting.
>> Um and so this is something that we we
say to our students in the YouTuber
Academy. When in doubt,
>> just think about list. If you were
talking to yourself from two years ago,
what is three or five or seven? Well, we
like we like odd numbers. Three or five
or seven things you would have wanted to
know and then just talk about those
things and that's it. Everything is a
listical at the end of the day. It helps
you organize your thoughts stories and
then for the audience you have to get to
the end.
>> Yeah.
>> You know, one of one of the philosophies
that we teach on our YouTuber academy,
which is like my whole philosophy of
YouTube, is find a way to systemize it
as much as possible.
>> It's completely unsustainable if you're
having to reinvent the wheel every
single time. Yeah.
>> Which is why I don't envy entertainment
YouTubers because they are having to
reinvent the wheel every single time.
>> But as a educational YouTuber, all you
need is a title, a thumbnail, and a
list. And title, thumbnail, list with
like a reasonable hook or promise. I I I
don't even like the word hook because it
sounds too like
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Just
like a promise. Um what is the video
actually about? You know, the title is
17 purchases that save me time. In this
video, we're going to talk about 17
purchases that save me time. Number one
is a padlock.
>> But I I like that framework of like, you
know, all you need is is a idea,
thumbnail, or you say title, thumbnail,
and a list. Yeah, that's so good. That's
so good.
>> I think number one on the laws of
writing good videos. I would love to
hear the laws of writing good videos.
>> Uh, law number one, control the scope.
Make sure the point isn't too broad.
>> Mhm.
>> Keep it narrow. Keep it focused.
>> Love that.
>> Number two, don't waste the viewers
time. It's almost the same one again.
What is the point? Make your point as
concisely as possible. Um, number three,
load up the learning outcomes. And this
one's really important to me because I
feel like our role is to make you feel
at the end like you got more than just
um you know like marshmallows and and
cheese whiz you know like you got
something of substance after you consume
our content. Plan for flow. Some ideas
will have a natural order. Um you know
it could be physical outside to inside.
It could be temporal beginning to end.
It could be conceptual. Start with the
background info. current events, future
speculation, you know.
>> Um, but make sure that you have a clear
idea. Five, make it personal. Provide
context. It's not always obvious how
good a screen is,
>> how impressive someone's subscriber
count is, right?
>> Remember who you're talking to. You
know, not every video is for everyone.
So, you guys are going to see this a
lot, right? Sometimes you guys are going
to do a video that's really targeting
brand new creators who've never done
anything. And sometimes you guys are
going deep into the weeds for people who
if they don't have like a million
subscribers, it's probably not
applicable. Don't worry about it. Yeah.
Right.
>> Plan for the payoff. Really important to
me.
>> Tell and show us how to feel,
>> man. And this is part of this is part of
the context one too. Provide context
when you're presenting to the camera. It
captures a fraction of your energy. It
captures a fraction of your emotion. So
you have to overdo it. If you don't
overdo it, you end up just flat and
boring. Number 10, have fun. The
audience is detector. It's like
finely tuned.
>> Yeah, finely tuned. If they can tell
that you don't give a why should
they give a
>> What process or structure would you
recommend for someone who maybe has
never even written scripts before?
>> You're basically just thinking about how
do I rehook them every time we move from
one segment to the next? where how do I
make it completely clear at all times
what this particular segment is going to
be about.
>> So is essentially you know the
transition between each segment is that
essentially introducing a new problem.
So like a rhythm of problem and
solution.
>> Yes. Yeah. Exactly. That's a really good
way of thinking about it. So if we take
it another way and think of uh an
entertainment thing, someone like Max
Foch is trying to break into an aquarium
or something and we will have it set up
that the first segment is but first I
needed to get myself a giant fish
costume or something and so we know
right okay the first problem he's
encountering is he needs to buy this
giant costume and then say over the
course of the segment he buys the
costume he makes his way to the aquarium
and then he discovers something like but
then I realized the the costume was too
big for me to fit in the door and then
you realize okay so the next problem
we're dealing with is how does he
actually gain access to the building?
Um, and so like I think the way you put
it, Colin is perfect. It's like you you
you're just continuously raising a
problem, solving it, and then
immediately raising another problem and
solving it. Really, the most key thing
when we're talking about this problem
solution way of approaching it is that
you can't leave the audience in between
setting up uh the next solution for too
long. So you resolve a problem, you
resolve that segment. The audience needs
to know what's coming next. They can't
be left in that kind of middle ground
limbo where they don't know what the
next segment is going to be about
because the brain will start to wander.
That homepage is just one click away.
They need to be kept focused on, okay,
they've resolved one problem. Uh, and
now they've set up the next one. What's
coming next?
>> I think what comes to mind for me is
that it's not necessarily about like
pace of editing, it's pace of new
problems. Like I think people can often
confuse pace of editing with pace of new
problem. that like it doesn't actually
matter if you're moving quickly, but if
you don't have a new problem, then
you'll lose people. So, that was
actually George Blackman, who's a
professional YouTube script writer, and
that conversation was from our course
called the YouTube Growth Playbook. The
YouTube growth playbook is a
step-by-step system for growing a
YouTube channel. It's based off of our
15 years of experience on the platform,
as well as our hundreds of interviews
with professional creators. It's all
centered around the three rules of
YouTube. Now, to help you take what
you're learning in this video and put it
into practice, we put together a free
worksheet that you can download just by
clicking the link in our description and
putting in your email. All right. Now,
we're going to talk about packaging and
thumbnails with Cleo Abram.
I I noticed in watching your videos over
the last year and a half that your
thumbnails have changed a lot,
>> and I feel like they've improved a lot
like in the quality of the graphic
design, in the composition, in the
clickability of just like telling a
story between the title and the
thumbnail. What was that process like
for you? What did you learn about
YouTube titles and thumbnails that has
taken you to where you are today?
>> I sort of feel like a machine learning
algorithm in this way where I'm just
like pattern matching and like it's hard
to describe exactly what the steps were.
Um, but
maybe it was you guys, maybe it was
someone else. The three step the three
things rule that you want to have three
things in quite a bit. Yeah,
>> that's been really helpful thinking
about the thumbnail as part of the
story. like noticing what I like. I have
a big deck. Um it was a lot of titles
and thumbnails that I admire and then I
just looked through and I tried to
articulate why I admired them so much.
And a lot of it had to do with like um
Tom Scott's relationship between his
titles and his thumbnails and the way
that he's like in action in many of them
and there's an arrow that's pointing to
something specific and I love that.
Sometimes it's tricky because I'm trying
to maybe include my own face probably
because it's sort of a signal that this
is a show that people have uh clicked on
before. Um but also include something
that is not necessarily like me in
action in the field. Sometimes I'm in
the field but sometimes I'm not. Um and
then also I think there's a certain
amount of creative confidence that it
takes to make something I mean first
something on YouTube in general but also
to put out a title and a thumbnail that
doesn't try to be everything. and sort
of assumes that you're going to create
that curiosity gap and that people will
click it and that it will work. I think
very early on I was trying to like put
the whole video in the title and
thumbnail and now I'm a little bit more
relaxed about it and that's actually
helped and so it's an exercise in
choosing those three things and like
making that actually work.
>> Something really interesting about your
thumbnails and we were speaking with you
yesterday about this is that realism is
really important to you.
>> Yeah.
>> And that is not necessarily the YouTube
meta. Like that's not really what's
fully happening across YouTube. Realism.
>> Mhm.
>> How much do you think about that, care
about that? Where the the brand of being
a creator goes?
>> Yeah, that's I think it's super
important. I think for a while it's
something that I thought was just like
assigned to me. Like the idea of oh, I'm
if I want to be a creator, I have to be
like Mr. Beast and ZHC. Like I have to
have a logo as my channel name and my
channel like profile picture. And I
actually did that. that I like changed
my profile picture to like an eyeball.
What does that even mean? What is what
does an eyeball have to do with me? Um,
and I did it because I was like I was
thinking it's one of those correlation
is not causation type of situations
where I was like looking at the top and
and seeing what they do, not realizing
that I'm just a human being. I'm like
not planning to build an empire. I don't
want to build an empire or anything. I I
just want to connect with people and
make videos I love. And so it is
important to be intentional. Like I
think about even how fonts communicate
to people. Like I I changed my font from
being somewhat more corporate to
something that's like so normal that's
just on everyone's computer and it just
feels more like me. And I think that
like if creators can find those little
things like what song just feels like
me, what font feels like me, what video
feels like me and it comes down to
realism too like with the thumbnails.
And I found that realistic thumbnails
just feel like me. It feels like
>> Yeah. If my face is not like then I feel
more connected to the to the thumbnail
if I'm just making a very subtle face
that's like
>> cuz it's realistic and I'm like oh
that's that's legit.
>> Also the concepts that you do are rooted
in realism like they don't feel
sensational.
>> The titles might be somewhat sensational
like I spent you know 24 hours in in the
world's quietest room or loudest room
like there's a superlative there right
that that fits into what performs on
YouTube. Then when you watch it, a lot
of it is rooted in the relationship you
have with the guy who runs the the room,
right? Or like the people you meet.
You've done such a good job of creating
characters out of those people. One of
my absolute favorites is the underwater
hotel.
>> Yes. It's so fun.
>> The guy you meet. Yeah. What's his name?
>> Daniel. Sweet Daniel.
>> Yeah. Sweet Daniel.
>> Hello.
>> Hello.
>> Have dinner.
>> No way.
>> Now, another thing is in your sensory
deprivation video
>> Mhm. You also showed this moment of
really vulnerable raw emotion.
>> Yeah.
>> Can you talk a little bit about the
decision of keeping that in or or not
keeping that in?
>> Yeah, that was wild. So, I I got in the
sensory deprivation tank and like at
first it was lights and and floating and
sound and then u hour two I turned off
the light so it was just floating and
sound. Hour three I actually put
earplugs in so it was just floating like
those earplugs were crazy. some nice
earplugs. And I had a moment in there
where I actually
felt like I had these like recessed
memories about my grandmother and just
like the last time I felt super super
still. And it was just taking a nap with
her one summer when in like 2008 when I
was just super young. And it was wild
cuz I literally started crying. Like I
started balling. And it's so funny
because Zach helps to edit the videos
and normally I'll like help talk I'll
like kind of talk to him through the
video and be like, "Dude, that was
funny. Like that was cool. we should
definitely like put that in the video.
And with that, I felt so uncomfortable
because I knew Zach was going to watch
it and I was like
I just didn't say anything for like 5
minutes. I was like, "Anyways." Um, and
so we actually talked about it
afterwards and he was like, "Dude, we
should put this in the video." Those are
the moments we crave even like off
camera in a human level. We crave those
like real emotions, real conversations.
And so that was a huge like turning
point to me to realize like I'm a human
being. Like
>> I I have a YouTube channel, but those
are the moments that matter. And so many
great comments came from that just like
empathizing with me and people sharing
their experiences the last time they
felt still or like how their
grandparents impacted their lives. So
cool twist.
>> When it comes to retention, obviously
there's things you can do in the first
30 seconds, the first minute. Are there
checklist items you have to get people
to 10 minutes to 15 to 20? Yeah, I mean
it's very hard with a single storyline
if you're doing like a double digit
minute video to just have that one thing
grip their entire attention throughout
the whole video and pay off at the end.
Um, so typically if you're doing a
longer video, you should introduce like
a side story and like re you should have
some plan halfway through like to
re-engage them so they don't just get
bored. You know what I mean? Like if I
just said like if I hand you a camera
and I had a camera, it's like okay if he
tags me he gets 100 grand and then I
just run and that's it. It's just me
running through the woods and him just
running through the woods after me. You
can't make a 15-minute video out of it.
You know what I mean? But if I do that
and then like 3 minutes in, I pull a
lever and a bear comes out and starts
chasing him and he has to get away from
the bear. I don't know. Obviously, we
wouldn't do this, but kill the bear and
then he starts chasing me and then 6
minutes in I jump across a lake and as
he goes to jump through I press a button
that shoots him to the moon. Whatever.
You know what I mean? Like now all of a
sudden it's interesting and you're
watching, right? And that's it, right?
One is just a single story and it's
boring. The other has side stories that
like re-engage people.
>> What is the recipe to a like successful
Try Guys video? If you look at it and
you're like, I know right now what's
going to work or what what performs.
>> We don't make as many classic Tribe
videos. We, you know, food has been our
best successor, but there's a through
line in all of them, which is uh we are
going to do something that is related to
a commonly held passion or identity. So
whether that's ballet, oh I grew up
doing ballet or my little sister did or
I've always wondered what that's like or
making a pie and then we have an expert
who is going to be the source of
authority and now we get to be the crash
test dummies. Then there's a lot with
how we craft that as well which is um
you know contrast editing. So expert
says, "Now, no matter what, don't do
this. Cut to Keith doing this." Right?
That's And also, we like to have uh an
arc. Most of our best videos will follow
a three-act structure. Um we have a
first act break. At the second act
break, we do have the Dark Knight of the
Soul where the character is at their
lowest so that we can then see them
triumphantly rise and use something they
learned earlier and succeed. Um, and I
think a lot of our best videos also have
to have some stakes, whether that's a
performance or got it, feeding what
we've done to
that's also a sense of reveal. Um, but
we've learned a ton on how to structure
our videos based on audience retention.
And that's learning that once they see
the big reveal at the end, the video is
over. So now
we've gone through this incredibly
transformative emotional experience
underneath and during
>> the final performance, the final reveal,
whatever. Because once we're done
revealing,
>> you got 30 seconds, video's over.
>> When I pitch to a brand, I always talk
about like the psychology of
consumption. This is now this is some
cringe stuff. All marketing. Um I don't
know if you guys know like this the
principles of influence. Let's hear
them. How we consume things and are
influenced by things. Every bit of
feeling and emotion we evoke can be
categorized into one of these six
things. Scarcity. When you say someone
is mysterious and has aura, that's what
psychologically you're trying to
describe. Like you upload once every
eight months and it's like a big deal.
That's a Michael Reeves. That's like,
you know, someone who's uploading
highquality low quantity content. That's
people like that, right? Consistency.
The opposite of that in a sense. It's
like uploading every day. Like it's
almost like when you come home from
school or work, it's like, "Oh, I'm
gonna watch this creator. Um, I've come
to like almost make it a part of my
routine."
>> Um, and you could also combine those
two, right? Like you can upload every
year, but you do so consistently. So,
you can combine those two principles of
influence. Reciprocity. That was a big
part of Kid with Crocs where it's like
this is a new account and I am Kid with
Crocs. I would always respond to fans
and like the first thousand people that
followed me, I followed them back and
like just had full conversations with
them. And so now these people are like
rooting for me and in a way like I am
not like
>> like manipulatively thankful like I'm
just thankful like you're here for the
start and like I would talk to them and
like those thousand people who I like
gave reciprocity to were in it from the
first second to the last second and like
now they're like fans of what I do and
like that's such a like lovely feeling
both ways, right?
>> Consensus or social liking. This is
super important. It's like you are more
likely to watch a video that already has
a million likes because it is that
social proof like oh it already people
already like it, right? It's the same
reason why it's really hard to go from
an account with, you know, zero
followers, zero likes to a thousand
likes, but it's pretty easy to go from
like a million likes to a million and a
half likes, right? Because yeah, I mean
that's kind of an obvious one.
Similarity, it's what we talked about
before. It's like you want something
that feels similar but is ultimately
different and creative. That's where
like creativity comes in, right? You
need to be able to understand how people
consume content and then like innovate
on that, right? So, it's like, you know,
there's best practices like having your
face in the the first frame and like
having text on the screen, but also like
if you follow every single thing in the
rule book, people won't care. It's
already been done, right? Um, and that's
where like some of my weird creative
urges come out where it's like I have a
character and I animate and I make music
for the videos, right? And then
authority, it's like if you it's like if
you're a doctor, like Dr. Mike, right?
Like people care about that. Or if
you're already a big creator, you
already have that like pos, right? Is
that like a smart word, chat? Is that
smart? I'm seeing some nods in the back.
Let's go. Right.
>> Um, sorry to yap. So those that is how I
think about how culture and consumption
works. And this has all been deep rooted
in my brain. And I learned this in AP
psych back in like sophomore year of
high school as I started like making
content. And this set of guidelines has
like not failed me.
>> You one time told me about hiding the
vegetables.
>> Mhm.
>> I'm curious if you can explain that
concept
>> 100%. Um, hiding the vegetables is like
one of the core principles we have for
how we tell stories, which is, you know,
you give someone a plate of broccoli,
they're not going to want to eat it. The
wholesome and the intentional and and
kind of important premise in the story
is a little bit hidden. you know, when
we used to 2016, 2017, we do these
videos that were very positive and the
thumbnail
>> inspirational.
>> Yeah. And like, you know, helping a mom
for, you know, Mother's Day and like
nobody clicked on it, you know, but now
instead of thinking about it that way,
you know, we might come up with an
experience that is more outward- facing
and feels more flashy and interesting
and helping the mom would be a part of
that experience, but it's not the title
and thumbnail. It's the the the
intentional and um you know caring part
of the storytelling that is super
important to us. If we feel like the
video doesn't have any vegetables, it
feels like it lacks that deeper level of
connection that I think our audience has
gone used to having when they watch our
videos. And so, um, I think it's a
really smart thing to think about as a
creator, you know, and because I think
there is a level of needing to be
mindful of of your ideas that you
distribute to the world for people to be
interested in watching them. And if
you're only distributing vegetables,
>> I think you can you can build an
audience, but they're going to by
default be a lot smaller. And once we
figured that out,
>> like our growth and everything changed.
>> Positivity by itself will not sell.
Goodness on its own will not sell. So,
how do you actually take these things
that are the core of what we do and make
it more consumable uh to uh to an
audience of someone that might not care?
>> Yeah.
>> Is there a rule that you think it's okay
to break?
>> I feel like some of the stuff we're
talking about of like ending with
failure that in the beginning I would
not have had the confidence to attempt
that. But I think from beginning till
now, you take risks along the way and
and then you're taking notes as okay,
that was like a risk takingaking
collecting data. Oh, never take that
risk again. Got it. Okay, took another
risk. Oh, that one.
>> There was more of a response there. I
remember the first song I ever did was
for the jetpack video.
[Music]
cuts.
We're making a champion.
>> Why?
[Music]
>> Huge risk in my head. I'm like, I can't
make music for a YouTube video. That
breaks the rules. Like, it it completely
broke the rules in my head. Uh, and then
the comments were very affirming of
like, that was weird and fun and we like
the song. But I think it's only come
from like slowly building the confidence
to take more risks and
>> feel like I'm comfortable looking dumb.
>> If you're not comfortable failing
publicly
>> Yeah.
>> It is. It is so important in this weird
job they have.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. There's this clip where the
creators of South Park are speaking to a
class and they said that a really bad
story will go like this. It'll go this
happened, then this happened, then this
happened, then this happened. And you
think like that's that's an extremely
boring way to intake information.
>> Yeah.
>> And what you want is a story that goes,
this happened, but then that happened,
therefore this happened.
>> So you want some causation between the
beats in your story. And I think that's
something that could exist completely in
a tech video
>> where you're saying, "Here's this new
phone that was just launched."
>> History has shown us that it's been
really incredible. It's been an
incredible line of products, but this
one is different.
>> Therefore, you should think differently,
right? And if you can keep that going
throughout, you'll hook people and keep
them longer.
>> Unfortunately,
when you
invent something or you create
something, it will inevitably be
copied. As much as you know we can be
honored that people like admire
something that we did, it can mess with
your head and it can and it can
uninspire you. It also though pushes you
to do something new.
>> Like I remember first watching your
stuff and being like whoa this is this
is different, you know, like
>> this is insane.
>> Yeah. Like you zoom in, zoom out, your
head was like exploding at times. Like
were you aware that you were doing
something unique? cuz the amount of
videos on YouTube that are like learn
how to edit like Emma Chamberlain or
like how many people then did that exact
style. Um were you aware that you were
creating a style? Like what was what was
that era for you?
>> Actually I don't think I've ever told
the story. Maybe I have. Um in high
school my friends and I used to do these
like dance routines. Like we'd make
dance routines. I was a cheerleader.
Some of my friends were cheerleaders,
some of them were dancers, whatever. But
we'd make these like funny dance
routines. We'd film them on the webcam
of my laptop during lunch and then
during my next class, which was history,
I would edit them on iMovie. I mean,
this was just simply for my friends and
I's enjoy enjoyment, right? The reason
why I zoomed in was so that you could
see it better.
>> It wasn't like for emphasis or for this
or for that. Then I started to become
obsessed. I was like, "This is so fun."
And like editing these dance routines is
what makes it funny. Like zooming into
one of my friends faces, doing this,
doing that. And I don't even remember
how that happened. It was such an
automatic thing. From there, like I
didn't do that on YouTube at first. My
dad gave me the advice. He was like,
"You should
treat your YouTube channel how you
treated those videos that you used to
make with your friends." And I was like,
"Oh." Something clicked. And then I was
like, I'm just going to take that
editing style over. And the editing for
me was very intuitive. It was like, this
needs to be emphasized. This doesn't
this like
there's no formula. It was just like,
what's going to make this funny to me?
>> Short form content is driving more
algorithmic discovery. I would argue
that like um at the beginning before you
found media market fit like the most the
best strategy is no strategy. It's like
speed of iteration. Try a lot of things.
See what you love. Find your voice. Find
yourself. Step two. Again, if I'm
thinking about how to do it as a creator
in 2025,
you have to move beyond shorts. Um, now
you don't have to, but there are dangers
if you don't. Um, it becomes harder to
build a directto fan community and a
directto fan business. There are
creators who have figured this out, but
because fans are less willing and likely
to pay for short form content. And
because when you're at the ultimate top
layer of the internet, you are more
subject to the whims of the platform's
direction of traffic. There's a it's
it's a more volatile environment to
build a long-term sustainable business
versus finding a format like you guys
have found where you've got this
repeatable long- form thing that your
audience enjoys every week and you have
these, you know, you have like these
long conversations and people are
listening to them and building loyalty
to you and building loyalty to the
format. I think there's a key step if
I'm doing it as a creator is like find
my audience on shorts and then figure
out after that how do I build a long
form uh uh media format and and a
tighter community around that format. I
would say that's step two. Whenever
people ask about starting out, they're
like, "Oh, I really like tech. I want to
make videos about tech. Any tips for
starting?" Make sure you really do like
tech and you can make videos about tech
every day for the next year. and maybe
you'll kind of get sick of it. Like
that's that's real. That's a real valid
feeling to have. And so I often equate
becoming a a professional video creator
in tech or in any product related thing
uh kind of like becoming a professional
athlete. Everyone can have fun making
videos and everyone can have fun let's
say playing basketball for example,
going to the park with your friends,
playing basketball, whatever. But
turning it into a job requires not just
a high level of skill, but like an extra
level of time, dedication, and like
actual resources being poured into it to
get to the very peak level to be able to
turn it into your job.
>> Yeah.
>> And that's the same thing with with
making videos.
>> I love what you just said because at the
beginning of my own personal channel,
and I think a lot of creators experience
this, you just want to throw as much
stuff at the wall, see what sticks, and
you're really going for views. Or at
least I was. you you do what you can for
views. But then I sort of got to this
point where half the content on my
channel was stuff that when people
recognized me on the street, I was like,
you know, I don't know if I I want to be
known for the other stuff I'm doing, not
not this category A. I want to be known
for category B, which for me was these
deep intensive challenges I was doing.
So my goal was to reduce as much of
category A and pump it all into B. And
now I I only want to do content I love.
And I think that it's a it's a tough
investment to make because you might see
a you know it's hard to avoid the
lowhanging fruit, you know, when you see
an opportunity for, oh, I can make that
video or that short and it'll do super
super well and to say no to that and
invest in something you care about more.
But I've actually found that the return
on that investment is even better
because brands respect you more. um over
time subscribers respect you more
because they really have they know that
they're coming for high quality every
single time
>> because you know a YouTube channel is a
resume but it's a very interesting
resume because when a brand or anyone
you know potential partner even a
potential subscriber comes to look at it
you can't control what they're going to
click on and that one thing they click
on could make or break why they decide
to work with you or subscribe to you and
I want to make for every single piece of
content, even if it doesn't have a ton
of views, is one that shows the quality
of the channel.
>> All right, if you like the advice from
this video, then I think you'll like
this video where Colin and I workshop a
video with a creator, taking her from
averaging around a,000 views a video to
this specific video doing well over a
100,000 views.