Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out.
>> The Joe Rogan Experience.
>> TRAIN BY DAY. JOE ROGAN PODCAST BY
NIGHT. All day.
>> We're up. Hey, Christopher. Good to see
you. Thank you very much for the book.
This is very cool of you. Ladies and
gentlemen, Chris just gifted me, ladies
and gentlemen, Lenny Bruce, which is a
[ __ ] amazing book.
>> [snorts]
>> And uh it's inscripted or there's
inscription inside uh to Yoko Ono who
knows well what the jazz life entails
and it's uh Albert Goldman. And you were
just telling me that Albert Goldman this
was his way of weaving into the Yokoono
John Leno John Lennon camp.
>> Exactly. Yeah. And then he goes and
writes a book that blows him up. I've
just exploded a can of Newtonic all over
my crotch as well. Jamie, have you got a
uh napkin? paper towel somewhere right
here.
>> Apologies.
>> We don't.
>> Must be gone. Might go get some.
>> That's all right. Premature. Uh, yeah.
>> We have tissues.
>> No.
>> No. All right. He says no.
>> Jamie says no. Um, yeah. So, he writes
that book and then gifts it to Yokoono.
And by giving it to her, I think is the
beginning of him working his way into
that camp. And then he goes on to write
the book The Lives of John Lennon, which
after he's dead, kind of explodes a lot
of what was going on personally, whether
it's true or not. There's a lot of drama
and fur around it, but I knew that it
was your favorite book and we were
supposed to
>> Well, thank you. That's very cool of
you. I did not know about that the that
he wrote the John Lennin book as well.
It's really interesting because the John
Lennon book it's God, it's so weird to
write a book like that after a guy's
dead and he can't respond to it.
>> Yeah.
>> Where you're accusing it what was it
ex-wives that accused him of domestic
violence?
>> Who who accused him?
>> I don't know. I think it that that whole
funeral was uh was just a mess. And
obviously when someone's dead, what are
they going to do? How they going to be
how are they going to be able to come
back from that?
>> They can't.
>> Yeah. Exactly.
>> Well, it's kind of it's just weird that
you're allowed to do that.
You know that you're allowed to say this
happened, that happened. The guy can't
say no. No. And I can prove it. Like he
can't say anything.
>> Yeah.
>> And it's also like the give peace a
chance guy. Like the give peace a chance
guy was beating his wife. boy, you know,
it's not that surprising giving like
human contradiction. You know, it's like
male feminists that turn out to be
sexual predators. There's a lot of them,
right? There's a lot of that weird stuff
going on where people pretend to be one
thing and they're actually another
thing.
>> Sneaky [ __ ]
>> Yeah, sneaky [ __ ] The give peace a
chance guy beating his wife, though.
It's like I can't believe that. I have a
really hard time believing that. But
I've been fooled before, right? Like he
seems like the most peaceful non-violent
guy of all time. if that guy's but I'd
read a bunch of stuff about him being a
[ __ ] Goldman portrayed Lennon as having
numerous sexual relationships outside
his marriages. His accounts include
well-known relationship with May Pang.
You like the Asians, huh? [laughter]
>> Well, JL,
>> keep going.
>> Uh, additional affairs with women framed
as habitual cheating, claims of sexual
encounters with men, including an
alleged relationship with Beatles
manager Brian Epstein. Hey, for more
serious allegations, including claims
involving male prostitutes in Thailand
and other conduct that Goldman
characterized as sexual predation. The
thing is like how is he getting all this
information about like male prostitutes
in Thailand? And you know, like how do
you know? You know what I mean? Like are
you is did someone tell you? Did you go
there? Like did you go there and talk to
the prostitute like that? [laughter] I
suck [ __ ] like what
why the book is disputed. The problem is
the reliability of Goldman's specific
accusations. At publication, Yokoono and
Paul McCartney publicly condemned the
book. Contemporary reporting noted
claims of factual errors,
contradictions, unattributed assertions,
and material allegedly based on dubious
sources or quotations used out of
context. Look, that is not uncommon. Did
I ever tell you what um Bill Murray said
on the podcast?
So, Bill Murray was reading John uh Bob
Woodward's book Wired and he said he got
through like five pages. He said, "Oh my
god, they framed Nixon
because Bob Woodward was the guy who did
Watergate and he said this book was so
full of [ __ ] It was so fake. He he like
he portrayed he portrayed
the whole scene of like
what he was up to as being like hardcore
drugs constantly all the time just just
[ __ ] losing his mind. And he's like,
"No, dude. He was a lightweight. He
wasn't like that at all."
>> So he knew it was totally fabricated.
>> He said, "This is not my friend." Like I
knew him. He was my best friend.
>> He's like, "This is not him." And then I
told him the story of how Bob Woodward
was an intelligence agent. And that was
his first assignment ever. Tucker told
me the story on the podcast
>> that Bob Woodward and uh the other guy,
what's the other guy's name? Bernstein.
That uh Bob Woodward, this was a rookie
assignment. A rookie assignment is going
to take down the [ __ ] president of
the United States. and his first job
outside of being a [ __ ] intelligence
agent is to work for the Washington Post
on his first story, which is going to
take down the most popular president in
the history of the United States. One by
the largest margin ever,
and this is the guy that said he knew
who killed Jack Kennedy. And apparently
that's why they got rid of Nixon. Tucker
told me the whole story in the podcast.
I was like, "Holy [ __ ] this is [ __ ]
crazy." You're connecting the dots.
>> It's a It's a crazy [ __ ] story.
>> Have you been following this uh Lindsay
Clansancy case? This uh who's
>> that lady who killed three of her kids?
>> Oh, no. I've tried not to. That one's
That's a bummer.
>> It is. It's basically 2026's
OJ Simpson. It's
>> Before we get into that, I'd love to get
into that. This Belushi thing is
important because like his friend is
telling you that he was not like that.
Woodward makes him out to be this
maniacal cocaine adult heroinfueled guy.
He's like, "No, he was a lightweight."
He said he he would get drunk off a
couple drinks. So our whole narrative of
who John Belalushi is is by the same guy
who framed Nixon. Like once someone's
dead, you could say whatever the [ __ ]
you want.
>> Yeah.
>> You could say whatever you want.
>> And who's gonna defend this person in
the with the same level of uh vitriol or
vehementness that someone who's still
alive is going to?
>> No one.
>> Yeah.
>> No one. And there's nothing you can do.
He's gone. Everyone's mourning.
Everyone's sad. And then someone writes
some book. Oh, he used to [ __ ] kids.
You're like, what?
>> Like you could just write whatever you
want and then maybe they could sue you.
But boy, are you going to make an
extraordinary amount of money off of
that book. Like people are gonna be
hyped up for that book. You have a book
about John Lennon was like into
meditation. He liked to do LSD. No one's
buying that [ __ ] John Lennon like to
[ __ ] guys in Thailand. Let's [laughter]
go. Let's go. Right. You could write
anything.
>> Who's going to fight back that hard as
well once someone's gone?
>> You can't prove it. He's dead.
>> Well, it's all hearsay. Even the defense
is now hearsay.
>> Yes.
>> The defense of the person who is now no
longer alive. That's
>> hearsay. Exactly. Everything's hearsay.
>> Yeah. So the defense is always going to
be flimsy in comparison to the
accusation because the accusation feels
like it's got more substance to it. Yes.
This is someone who's gone out and done
original research. You didn't go to
Thailand. You didn't speak to the
prostitutes.
>> But even that like no one's buying it.
It's just you can get away with so much.
It's really kind of crazy. You So you
didn't know about the Nixon story?
>> No.
>> You should hear Tucker say it because
when Tucker Tucker lays it out and
you're like what? It's even more
complex. Like the people that were
involved in Watergate were all FBI.
It's crazy. They set him up because he
was going to expose who killed JFK,
>> which was just a few years earlier.
>> [ __ ] dude. This country is wild.
>> I mean, I love it, but it's it is crazy.
>> They also, you know, he had a vice
president, Spiro Agnu, and they got rid
of him on corruption charges and put
Lyndon Johnson in. But couldn't these
people have still spoken out? Like
getting rid of them out of office. That
doesn't stop them from whistleblowing,
does it?
>> First of all, they killed his
predecessor, right? They killed JFK.
>> So, you think that was a warning shot?
Look, we can get you out.
>> Well, he knew they could. They
definitely did. And they also got rid of
him, right? And you know, he didn't
organize Watergate. He covered it up.
They brought it to him. They said, "Hey,
there was some recording equipment."
He's like, "Don't tell anybody." And
that's what got him. That's what got
him. see if you can find the clip of
Tucker talking about it because it is
really insane when you read the when you
hear him lay out the story and then I
read it online. I I went into it to see
like is this totally everything's
accurate and it's so weird that our
perception of Nixon has been this
corrupt crook. You know, look, he was a
very right-wing product of his time, and
today his politics and his views on
people, especially like minorities and a
lot of other things, would probably be
very disgraceful and people would not
like it. But we're talking about, you
know, the 1960s, the early 1970s, and
he's an old school, oldtimey Republican
guy.
>> That said, he was the most popular
president ever at his time, and they got
rid of him. They turned him into a
crook.
>> That's power.
>> It's It's really crazy. You got to
listen to this because it's kind of
nuts.
>> Rogan experience.
>> Bizarre that the New York Times wouldn't
have an issue with that.
>> Well, the New York Times does that all
the time.
>> But but but bizarre they wouldn't have
an issue with the government tapping
into your phone.
>> They work for the government. Are you
kidding? The New York Times?
>> Yeah. The New York Times is a conduit
for the lies of government. That's what
it is. It's their tool and they're
perfectly aware of that.
I mean, I used to write for the New York
Times as a freelancer. I mean, I've been
around the New York Times a lot. And
there are uh yeah, there are a lot of
really smart people there, for sure.
Even now, I would less so now, but
there's still, I think, smart people
there. There are I know some and they
know, but they think that that, you
know, it's worth it because they're
bringing information or I don't know
what they think actually,
>> but no, they're they're tools
of power and that's like the one thing
that you're not allowed to be. Even if
you think the power is good, like maybe
they all support the agenda of the US
government, destabilizing the world and
impoverishing their own population.
Maybe they're on board with that.
Even if they are, they shouldn't do it
because the job of the media, the press,
is to keep power in check. You are kind
of like the seat belt, right? You know,
you make sure that
>> things don't go too far. So, um, and
they're not doing that. They're acting
as a willing handmaidaiden.
>> When do you think that switched?
>> I think it's been the case for a long
time. I mean, if you look at what
happened to Richard Nixon, which I of
course did not understand at all, um
Richard Nixon was taken out by the FBI
and CIA and um with the help of Bob Bob
Woodward, who was a Washington Post
reporter who had been a naval
intelligence officer working in the
White House, working in the Nixon White
House. And then he shows up like a year
later and he's this brand new reporter.
He'd never been a journalist at all.
He's a naval intel officer, the famous
Bob Woodward we all rever.
And he's at the Washington Post. And
somehow he gets the biggest story in the
history of the Washington Post. He's the
lead guy in that story.
>> Well, I I worked at a newspaper. I've
been in the news business my whole life.
That is not how it works. You don't take
a kid like his first day from a totally
unrelated business and put him on the
biggest story. But he was he was that
guy. And who is his main source for
Watergate? Oh, the number two guy at the
FBI.
Oh, so you have the naval intelligence
officer working with the FBI official to
destroy the president. Okay. So that's a
deep state coup. What else? How would
you describe that? If that happened in
Guatemala, what would you say? And yet
the way it was framed and the way that I
accepted for decades was, "Oh, this
intrepid reporter fought power." No, no,
no. This intrepid reporter, Bob
Woodward, was a tool of power, secret
power, which is the most threatening
kind to bounce the single most popular
president in American history, Richard
Nixon, from office before the end of his
term and replace him with who? Oh,
Gerald Ford, who sat on the Warren
Commission. Now, how did Gerald Ford get
to be Richard Nixon's vice president?
Well, because Carl Albert, the Democrat
speaker of the house, told him, "You
must choose him. We will only confirm
him when they sent the actual elected
vice president away for tax evasion."
Spiro Agnu of Maryland. So, you have a
complete setup like an ABS. Gerald Ford,
the only unelected president in American
history, actually sat on the Warren
Commission. something else that I
accepted at face value until I looked at
it and I was like, "That's completely
insane. You didn't want to interview
Jack Ruby in your investigation of the
assassination? Okay, you're fake." Yeah,
he was on the Warren Commission.
>> [ __ ] me.
>> And so, uh, sorry for the long story,
but the point is like that that happened
in front of all of us, but the way it
was framed cloaked the obvious reality
of it. The people who broke into the
Watergate office building from which the
name is taken, Watergate
was, I think it was six of them or seven
of them. All but one was a CIA employee.
That that's real. It's like look it up
on Google. So the whole thing Richard
Nixon was elected by more votes than any
president in American history in the
1972 election. He was the most popular
by votes, which is the only way we can
really measure popularity. The most
popular president
in his re-election campaign. And two
years later, he's gone. undone by a
naval intel officer, the number two guy
at the FBI, and a bunch of CIA
employees. Okay,
>> you tell me what that is.
>> How about that?
>> Dude, this country is wild.
>> How about that?
>> Yeah, that's Bob Woodward. That's the
guy who wrote Wired. And when Bill
Murray said that, he read the book and
he said, "Oh my god, they framed Nixon."
And then I showed him that and he was
like, "Holy shit." Cuz he was a part of
a thing. they were doing with Hunter S.
Thompson, Bill Murray was when he was
really young and uh where he would go
around and tell people that Nixon needs
a second chance, but it was all parody.
It was all like tongue and cheek. It was
satire. He was going around pretending
that he supported Nixon and Nixon needed
a second chance and getting like young
dumb people to go along with him on
this. And now in retrospect
>> in retrospect like I mean whether or not
at the time he ever wanted Nixon as
president and you know look there's a
lot of problems with Nixon. There's a
lot of problems with the Vietnam War.
There's a lot of problems with civil
rights. Nixon passed the Controlled
Substances Act which is the reason why
all psychedelic drugs to this day are
schedule one. Nixon was a [ __ ]
problem. No doubt about it. However,
what they did when they the way they got
rid of that guy is scary [ __ ] And they
pulled it off. No one got arrested. No
one got indicted. No one even got
criticized.
>> But could he not have still released
information after? Why?
>> He would have been a dead man 100%.
>> Because no protection because you're not
in office anymore.
>> No one would have believed him.
>> It would have sounded like sour grapes.
I'm throwing these people under the bus.
The administration that got rid of me.
>> There's also no internet. So how is he
going to release it? Is the New York
Times going to write this? Is he going
to write a a letter to the press and
they're going to print it? No. There's
literally no recourse.
>> It's kind of genius.
>> There's no podcasts. There's no shows
that he could go on. No one. He was
disgraced. No one would even have him on
a late night show. But if he even got on
a late night show, he would need about
90 minutes to explain it all. He would
have to take it from the beginning.
There was a time when I wondered who
killed Jack Kennedy. and I found out and
I brought it to them and I told them I
know who killed Jack and the room went
cold and he would tell the whole story
and it would take a lot if podcasts were
a lot around back then. Yes. If just
Instagram was around back then and
Twitter and he could write about it and
make a video. Yeah. YouTube. Yeah, if
that was around but there was nothing.
There was nothing. And they [ __ ] shot
JFK in the head in front of everybody
and shot the guy who they claimed killed
him like that. And then the other guy
they do up with acid and made crazy and
that was a wrap.
>> Done.
>> That was it, you know. And like how many
I mean this is just modern versions of
air quotes history. How how many old
stories that we have that we just we
just have accepted these historical
narratives.
We've accepted all of these stories as
being, well, this is how it went down.
How many of them are [ __ ]
>> Well, forget history being written by
the victors. History can be written by
the person who's got a pen.
>> Sure.
>> And when so few people have got pens, so
few people have got the opportunity to
distribute.
>> I suppose the problem that we have now
is in the modern world, there's so much
information, conflicting narratives,
people get confused. Right? You've gone
from a scarcity of information to such
an abundance that people just I I I
can't work out what's going on. [ __ ]
I'm just not going to believe anything.
>> Yeah. Yeah. It's it's um it's very
interesting cuz it's a great tool to
kind of obsc you can obuscate. You could
do a lot of things with a bunch of
[ __ ] information. The more [ __ ]
information you have, the more like
really significant information doesn't
really hit as much.
>> Correct.
>> It's just like it gets watered down then
it goes away.
>> The goal I think of the velocity of the
information is not to convince people of
any one narrative. It's to make them
completely nihilistic about the belief
in any narrative.
>> Yeah.
>> Yes. Any narrative. Yeah. And and also
just to kind of accept that feeling of
hopelessness like you can't change
anything.
>> Correct.
>> It's all [ __ ]
>> That feels pliable. Yeah.
>> Right. And then there might be something
down the line. If nothing else, you're
not going to have a aentic sovereign
uprising.
What can we do in any case? I don't even
know what's going I'm checked out,
>> right? Like the nihilism, the cynicism.
I I don't think that that's a byproduct.
I think that's
>> it's a plan.
>> Correct.
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>> Yeah, it's a design and it's it's smart
and it works and it's it's not even like
they engineered it. It sort of emerged
and they took advantage of these new
tools because these new tools, you know,
social media is more effective than
anything we've ever had before. And so
they go, "Oh, but look at all this now."
You know, we didn't have we barely no
one pays attention to CNN. We don't even
use them anymore. We just like douse the
whole world with horseshit
>> on Instagram and threads and
>> seed stories here and there.
>> Just [ __ ] Just pure [ __ ]
There's accounts that I know when I look
at what they said Justin Timberlake
arrested for, you know, murder, you
know, they they'll write things like
that, you're like, "What?" And it's just
a madeup story. And there's like
hundreds of them where you look and I've
there's some of them I recognize the
account and uh and I see it. I go, "Oh,
there's another madeup story. Halle
Berry kills five." I have
>> What do you think we should do about
this? Because obviously this country,
freedom of speech, etc., etc., but
>> I don't know, should there be a way to
try and counter this?
>> Yes. Well, first of all, those people
aren't real people for the most part.
And if you go to their page, a lot of
them are like in Pakistan or somewhere
else where where and of course, I don't
know how effective [snorts]
uh X in particular is. I mean I know
they've they've taken steps to show that
when you go to the person's page
someone's commenting on US politics and
you go to their page says Myanmar
Myanmar why do you go [ __ ] what are you
doing
>> so but that to me is like okay is there
a way around that are these like
completely non-sophisticated people
where they have to show that they're in
Myanmar what if they had like a
corporation in Idaho and they had it set
up where they all registered there and
so your your bills get sent to there
everything gets sent to there and it
just says the United states and you're
using a VPN or you have some other way
of connecting. It doesn't like if if
[ __ ] AI can get out of a sandbox and
get on the internet. You're telling me
that you can't hide the fact that you're
actually
>> Vietnamese people can't pretend to be
from Idaho.
>> Come on.
>> Yeah.
>> So, who knows?
>> X feels like the [ __ ] Wild West.
>> It's the Wild West.
>> It really is.
>> It's worse than the Wild West. It's the
Wild West with robots. It's It's that
western show. What's that show called?
>> West.
>> West World. Yeah, that's what it is.
Correct. It's wild west with robots.
>> Yeah,
>> it's really Westworld because and most
of these [ __ ] people that are you're
bantering with and they're posting these
fake stories, they're probably not even
real people. They're probably AI.
They're either people that are hired to
do it or they're AI. You got a bunch of
AI scripts and they just run it all the
time and they post periodically
throughout the day.
>> And interesting, not not long ago, what
five When did Elon buy eggs? 23.
>> Yeah, something like that. 23. So, f
five years ago, everyone was so worried
that we didn't have a a town square. We
don't have anywhere that we can talk and
now [laughter]
[ __ ] take it back.
>> Well, one thing that Elon has realized
is that um you have to take away some of
the incentives to post fake stuff. Uh
without putting up a barrier and saying
you can't post this and censoring
people, uh you can't incentivize them.
So, the thing is you can make money on
X. So now, uh, the way they're setting
it up for these people that post, you
can't make money off of fake content.
You can't make money off of this stuff.
So there's no incentive to make because
I think part of the incentive is
muddying the water, muddying the
narrative. But I think also part of the
incentive is just financial because if
you're running some company in Thailand
and you have like 50 people working for
you, you're probably making good money
just getting millions of clicks on
[ __ ] nonsense videos that are AI and
and a bunch of [ __ ] fake stories that
people concoct or AI concocts. As soon
as you cut out the money and say you're
only paid for original content, that's
it. That's all you can get paid for.
That changes the game. That changes
everything. I think if you align the
incentives for most people, [ __ ] gets
fixed. Like incentives are an
unbelievable motivating force. And if
you can if you can have that on X, I
think that that fixes a lot of the
problem.
>> It fixes a lot of it. But honestly, you
got to be able to tell whether
something's AI because even if even if
there's no incentive, you could shift
narratives so easily. If you just have a
100,000
AI scripts running a 100,000 accounts,
it's not hard for a state to do like a a
country to do to have like those kind of
resources. You can change public opinion
on things. Most people are dumb as [ __ ]
and you start arguing for something that
kind of makes sense and all of a sudden,
uh, yeah, I don't know what a woman is
either. You know, like weird narratives
can get real weird and especially people
start attacking the people that disagree
with whatever this narrative they're
trying to push. Nobody wants to get
attacked. Well, I mean, I I didn't
understand the consequences.
>> Well, that's a different kind that's a
different kind of incentive, right?
That's a social incentive and the
incentive is a disincentive. You don't
want to be pushed back against.
>> Exactly.
>> So few people have original thoughts. So
few people, the vast majority of
original thinkers kind of marionette two
different armies of NPCs that believe
the thing that a few people that have
original thoughts ended up coming up
with.
>> Yeah. Well, I think there's a bunch of
unfortunate realities that none of us
like to accept. And one of them is that
some people are dumb. They're born dumb.
Some people have big noses. Some people
have big ears. And some people have
brains that are made out of dog [ __ ]
And that's just how it is. And there's
nothing you could do about that. And
there's varying levels of that. Like,
you know, I always feel like that when
I'm talking to someone really smart,
like, geez, my brain sucks. It's it
varies like wildly. Just like athletics.
Like, there's some people you're like,
dude, you you are never going to the
Olympics. You know, you look at them
like, I don't give a [ __ ] what you do.
And there's other guys like you want to
coach them. Like, hey, if you just did
anything, you'd be a freak. You'd be
amazing at this. You just have natural
gifts.
>> That's the same thing intellectually.
There's certain people that I've talked
to, you're like, yo, you know, there's
there's people that are they're [ __ ]
barely figuring out how to get through a
day.
And you know, if you expect those people
to go and learn how to code, remember
that? Learn to code. Remember all that?
This is not This not
there. I can't teach my dog how to type.
It's not there.
>> It's not going to happen. That's just
the reality of genetic variability.
There's there's going to be a bunch of
people that are really [ __ ] smart and
a bunch of people that are really
athletic and really good-looking and
really ugly and really stupid and all of
it together.
>> It's one of the reasons I think that the
paternalistic we have to look after the
little person thing has a little bit of
legs. People sometimes like, well, we
actually need to step in in some way.
And I'm sure me and you need [ __ ]
assistance. We need smarter people than
us to tell us what to do with health to
a degree. Or else we would have been
sideswiped by some [ __ ] scop from
whatever organization or company or new
initiative is trying to convince us of
some new trend that's actually going to
be bad for us
>> or just to communicate with each other.
Where the [ __ ] would we be without these
wizards who have figured out cell phones
and laptops and highspeed internet and
Starlink? We're [ __ ] So all these
people even pretending that they're
smart. Well, you're you're on the backs
of the labor of the real geniuses, you
[ __ ] idiot. Like, yeah, you're
getting a lot of information online.
You're developing more and more
information that you can memorize.
That's different. That's different than
you inventing cell phones. Just stop.
That's different. It's different than
you inventing FaceTime.
>> Well, you know, like we're all dumb.
>> We are all dumb. Uh yesterday, I don't
know whether you saw this, the UK Home
Office decided it was going to release a
booklet giving guidance to asylum
seekers on acceptable and unacceptable
behavior in the UK.
>> Oh, well that'll fix it.
>> It explains that consent's required for
sex, that women have equal rights, that
sexual harassment is unacceptable,
including for partners and children, and
that female genital mutilation is not
allowed.
>> Oh god.
>> This was a nine-page booklet that got
released by the UK Home Office
yesterday. It's just it's
>> everywhere,
>> dude.
>> And it's got these warnings partway
through it that say things like um this
may affect your asylum status whether or
not this is part of uh an understanding
that you have arrived here with this is
an important part of uh British law uh
and and our culture and this is
something that you cannot do. Female
genital mutilation is not allowed. Uh
sexual harassment inside of the home or
outside. Women have equal rights.
Consent is something that's important.
It is. And that's what I mean.
>> The idea that you could just write it
down on paper and give it to them. Well,
that that's it. Solved it.
>> Well, the idea that we're going to do
this in retrospect, like now that you're
here, here is a piece of paper that
hopefully undoes something, which if
you've put this together and put it out
on the home office website, and this is
everywhere on X. If you've decided to do
this, it is evidently a big enough
problem that you need to really turn the
taps on with it. Like, dude, how how is
it that this is not done before people
arrive in the country? Like, is this not
the sort of thing that you need to be
doing like proactively, not
retroactively?
>> I think they just wanted to get as many
people in as possible, and now they're
trying to mitigate the chaos that it's
causing.
>> Why would they want as many people in as
possible?
>> There's a bunch of different
possibilities for why they want that.
Cheap labor is uh one that people
believe. And uh in America in
particular, it's the way the census is
done. So
the census counts human beings, it
doesn't count citizens. So if you have
more human beings, you get more
congressional seats. So if you can take
people that are illegal immigrants and
then you move them into swing states,
all of a sudden now you have more
congressional seats in those swing
states. Then you have places that don't
allow, not don't require, don't allow ID
to vote. That's California. California
doesn't allow ID to vote. So, who knows
how many people are, especially with
mailin ballots, how many people are
voting that aren't citizens? No one
knows. No one knows. Can't know. Can't
find out. Blah blah blah. Not listening.
And
>> wasn't it just some [ __ ] with Spencer
Pratt around that?
>> Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Not only was there
[ __ ] but it was [ __ ] of the most
transparent form. So the people that
voted in uh voted out so Spencer Pratt
was in second place behind Karen Bass
and then the Mins started coming in and
the mailins overwhelmingly
favored Nitia Ramen in a completely
different ratio than they did before you
know the mailin ballots were counted. So
in the regular ballot, like the regular
election, she was in third place, like
like a pretty solid third place. And he
was quite a bit ahead of her. And then
Karen Bass was quite a bit ahead of him.
>> In the mailin ballots, it's just like
60% of them went to Nathia Rom. It was
something crazy. And the mail-in ballots
voted to raise taxes.
>> No one votes for that.
>> No one votes for that.
>> So I don't understand. The thing that I
can't wrap my head around is why the the
the UK seems to be almost like a
suicidal empathy thing. This openness,
this this uh diversity is our strength,
please all ye come here
>> thing. The level of asylum, the the
numbers are so huge.
>> And I don't know if every single person
that I know that's in the UK
>> is not happy with the state of that,
regardless of how progressive they are,
everybody thinks that this is a problem.
and then to retroactively put out a
nine-page booklet saying that you
shouldn't do female genital mutilation
or that women have got equal rights.
>> How do you think this gets turned
around? That's the question.
Like, can that be mitigated? Claims
about a ballot drop. Boss and Ramen
received thousands of votes in an update
while Pratt received zero. I don't think
anybody's saying zero. Los Angeles
County officials said that did not occur
in the official county updates. Every
candidate received votes in every
update. No one's saying he got zero.
>> It says it's what it says.
>> Oh, the viral claim. Okay, but that's
not what we're saying.
>> He got more than both of them combined
even, I think.
>> What do you mean in the mailins?
>> That's what this says.
>> Well, then how did she win? That doesn't
make any sense.
>> That's that that's I'm just going off
what it says.
>> Okay, let me see. Apparently came from
the automated media data reporting lags,
but that would leave him in second place
if he got more than her. This is not
true. The Associated Press said votes
for some candidates appeared about a
minute later in a separate update. Taken
together, the updates included 21,870
votes for Pratt, 12,850 for Bass, and
9,521
for Ramen. But this is what part of it
is this.
The attorney's claims office uh
attorney's office re uh reviewing county
records likewise called the fraud claims
false. But the thing is he was ahead and
then disproportionately the the ballots
did come in for her. This is I don't
understand what this is saying because
it was widely reported that the ballots
came in in favor of Nitia Ramen and it
was like a shocking number. It was also
widely reported that that was the swing
that allowed them to pass the new tax
hike which is very unusual and they keep
Los Angeles already has crazy high
taxes. California has crazy high taxes,
the highest in the state. And you think
people are like, I don't think we pay
enough. Let's [laughter] vote and let's
vote from home, the comfort of our own
home with mailin. I think mailin should
be outlawed. And I think you should have
to show your ID. And you know, everyone
knows there's some percentage of of
fraud. There's some percentage of voter
fraud and then there's some percentage
of legal loopholes. One of the legal
loopholes that Spencer Pratt outlined
that is legal is you go to these
homeless people and you get these
homeless people to fill in mail mail in
ballots because they are citizens. They
do live in Los Angeles and you register
them and you get them to fill out
ballots and you give them money and you
give them cigarettes and you give them
whatever they want and you know there's
literally I think in Skid Row alone
there's something like what is it like
40,000 people Jamie?
>> Yeah, I think so.
>> Something crazy like that. So these
people were going to Skid Row like they
were on Skid Row giving people money and
cigarettes like there's videos of people
doing it.
>> Gorilla ballot harvesting.
>> Exactly. Exactly. And so if you do that
you could these people, you know, you're
filling it out for them.
>> Would it be easy to do that without
somebody detecting it? You know, you
think of some Nick Shirley type that's
>> got them. That's how they That's how we
know about this. One of the one of those
Nick Shirley types caught people doing
this, right? There's video of it,
>> right? You know, so like and people had
reported that they were getting paid to
do this and they're like, "Yeah, they
gave me money, man." Like people those
people are cracked out, dude. They'll
they'll do whatever the [ __ ] you want.
They don't care who's the mayor. It's
not going to change them them smoking
fentanyl on the street.
>> What do you think about uh
>> but that's legal. That's the thing.
That's that's legal. It's a loophole.
Getting them to register, getting making
them vote,
>> incentivizing them to vote.
>> I don't know if that part's
>> that can't be legal. There's no way that
you can give people money. And I don't
think you're going to catch them. I
don't think they care. I think every on
both sides they like, "Oh, those sneaky
[ __ ] They're doing that. Well, we'll
do that next time." I I don't think
either one of them want to eliminate
tricks,
>> you know? I think because everybody
wants the playing field to be open for
everyone else.
>> It's just It's the Bill Hicks joke. It's
like one guy's holding two puppets. You
You know that joke? I like the puppet on
the left while the puppet to the right
is more of my liking. Hey, there's one
guy holding both puppets. Like, that's
what I think a lot of it is. These most
of these people that are these
politicians on both sides are grifters
who are trying to maximize the amount of
money they can make in office and then
they can't wait to get out of office
where they can go on a [ __ ] media
tour and go and get their bribes by
speaking to banks. When you're going to
speak to a bank conference, they're
going to give you a half a million
dollars. Like, what? What? And like
Obama and Hillary, they all did those
things. They all did those little
speaking tours like nobody gives a [ __ ]
what Hillary Clinton has to say at one
of those bank meetings. You think
they're waiting with baited breath? What
is the what is the what does Mrs.
Clinton have to say? Like come on. Let's
give her a half a million dollars or a
quarter million dollars or whatever the
[ __ ] they gave her. [ __ ] off. You know
what that is? That's like there's a
little scheme. There's a little thing.
You're gonna get out. You're gonna get
paid. You're gonna write a book. We'll
give you a nice advance. You're gonna
write a book. Like people are out there
reading that Kla Harris book like crazy.
No, it's all nonsense.
>> Where do you think this goes from here?
Do you think 28 is more insane or less
insane?
>> More accelerates. Accelerates more
insane. More crazy. Yeah. I mean, look,
the Democrats haven't even had a primary
since what, 2012. When was the last time
they had a real Democratic primary?
>> They had one with
>> They [ __ ] Bernie Sanders hard, dude.
that was completely corrupt. When you
read Donna Brazil's book about it, she
openly admits they [ __ ] him hard
>> and then she was scared after that Seth
Seth Rich guy got murdered that she was
terrified because he was the guy
supposedly allegedly that leaked
information about them [ __ ] Bernie
Sanders to Wikileaks.
>> Do you think he'd have won
>> Bernie?
>> I don't know. He could have. He could
have won because a lot of people
including me believed him. We believe
that what this guy wanted was by small
steps of eliminating corruption, make
life better for people that are
struggling and also no wars. It seems
like he really believed that. And
whether you agree with him on everything
else, he's I don't think he's the same
guy today. He's a little slower today,
which is understandable. He's older. The
guy's been in politics for a long time.
He's been in politics for longer than
I've been alive.
>> He realizes that they're not going to
[ __ ] change things. It's like he's
getting [ __ ] So, he always supports
the most progressive people, but when I
talk to him, like when I talk to him
about, you know, climate change and the
climate's really important, I'm like,
have you really talked to actual
scientists that really study the climate
without a political agenda or an
ideology attached to it? It's very, very
complicated. And most of these people
that are running around saying climate
change is real, [ __ ] of course it is.
It's always real. It's always real. But
the the dispute is how much of an impact
are human beings having and is carbon
the thing? Because what most people
don't realize is there's been times in
history where there was way more carbon
and the earth was way colder. It's it's
weird. The world's temperature is not
static.
>> Have you been tracking AOC's pivot
recently?
>> Well, she's uh froze her eggs. I know
about that.
>> I think
>> she got rid of the man. called off the
engagement, froze her eggs, has started
posting I'm on my way to do yoga
like
>> good for her
>> videos walking down the street
>> looking hot
>> looking hot. It's it's maybe she'll be
nicer that way.
>> Well, she also said woke one was crazy.
Do you track this thing?
>> I did. Which makes me think that you're
willing to change your opinions based on
public reaction. I don't like that
because if you really thought defund the
police and then you just described it to
woke one was crazy. Well, how did it get
you? Because it didn't get me. How did
it get you? How did defund the police
get you? Tell me, give me your thoughts.
How far out did you track the
consequences of defunding the police?
Cuz I immediately went to you're going
to have more crime because no one's
going to be able to stop the crime.
We're going to be [ __ ] It's going to
get scary. And then you're going to have
want more police. And saying defund the
police is just going to make more police
and more control and more totalitarian
government. Like what did you think
defund the police meant? Everyone's
gonna like eat mushrooms and we're all
going to like be flower children. What
did you think? Because there's no police
around, no one's going to do crimes.
Everyone's going to be great. Like what
was the thought process? Cuz if you're
just saying that because everybody's
like, "That's [ __ ] crazy." And enough
people say that's crazy. You're like,
>> I think they think it's crazy.
>> The wind's blown in a different
direction. time for me to move.
>> Have you changed your opinion? And if
you did change your opinion, what were
you thinking back then?
>> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, these are the
questions I think that we always want to
ask. Yeah.
>> You always want to ask that. That being
said, to steal what she was saying or to
try and put it in the best light. What
she was saying, I think
>> the rhetoric got
>> what did you say the rhetoric got like
out of hand or something? Woke one was
crazy. And she said that there was
basically an opportunity to expand the
Overton window. talking about a time
where people were to be honest it sounds
like a bit more pliable
>> like oh because people are at home
people seem a little bit more like you
know that line never let a good crisis
go to waste
>> yeah sure
>> I it feels a little bit like that maybe
opportunistic we can expand the Overton
window and then we realized oh like we
overshot on here a little bit that was a
little bit crazy but there are
conversations being had now that
wouldn't have been able to be had had we
have not expanded it during that time
and I go the ends justifying the means
with stuff like that doesn't
to me and then reversing your position
or changing your position or sanitizing
it, which is probably closer, right? We
said that thing, but we didn't really
mean that. You know, we just got a
little
>> There's a way out of it for them, but
they have to be honest.
>> There's a If you want us to take you
seriously, you have to say how you
[ __ ] up.
>> I thought you meant more more thirst
traps, but
>> no. Uh, you have to say how you [ __ ]
up and you have to say what you really
think about how you [ __ ] up. You have
to be honest, and you have to be
authentic. We have to know that you are
embarrassed by your choices and that you
kind of went with the hive. Admittedly,
you have to say that. If you don't say
that, then you're full of [ __ ] And if
you're full of [ __ ] now, you're going to
get more and more full of [ __ ] over
time. And that's how politicians get
soured. That's how they get compromised.
A lot of them come into a lot of them
come into office a lot of them come into
office very opportunistic or very
idealistic rather. They have these
wonderful ideas about like this is the
great experiment in self-government. I'm
a part of it now and I'm really going to
help my constituents and I'm going to do
great and I'm going to really they're
going to love me because I'm going to
really make their lives better. And then
once you get in there and you realize
what how dirty this all is, you realize,
you know, you see Nancy Pelosi is worth
$400 million. You're like, "What?" And
then they tell you how to vote and if
you don't vote that way, they [ __ ]
ostracize you, but you want to keep your
career. So, you start making little
compromises here and little compromises
there and you start bullshitting and you
start lying. And once you start lying,
you can't see the truth anymore. As soon
as you start lying, you don't see the
truth. It's not in front of you anymore
because you're what? Concerned about
that lie. So those lies are in your head
and who you're trying to project
yourself as, that's what's in your head
and you don't get to see like why is
this system so [ __ ] What can we do to
unweave it while we still allow
corporations to profit? Like how can we
put a cap on that to make sure that they
don't get incentivized to break the law
in order to supply more capital to their
shareholders? Like what can we do to
balance this out in an even way? Like
that's what we should all be thinking.
Not how can I make the most [ __ ]
money while I'm in Congress. And that's
what a lot of them are thinking because
everybody else is thinking that. And you
look at the [ __ ] thing and it's red,
blue, red, blue. They're all insider
trading and they're all rich as [ __ ] and
they all make $170,000 a year. Like
Ilhan Omar, was she like she was
estimated to be her accountant said she
was worth 30 million and then and then
be like, "What? how the [ __ ] are you
worth 30 million? Like, oh, it was a
mistake. I'm actually [laughter] I'm not
even worth 100 thousand. Like,
literally, it went from one to the
other. And she she attributed to an
accounting error. Like,
>> it's a big accounting error.
>> How fire would you be at your accountant
if he told you, "Bro, you're killing it
right now, Chris.
>> You're worth about 30 million.
>> It's just $100,000."
>> They're all dirt. Her her and her
husband had a winery and it immediately
got shut down. It wasn't making any
money. There's a lot of these like like
fugazy companies that these people get
involved with and they start making
money.
You know Joe D. Rosa the comic. Joe D.
Rosa used to work for the Senate in
Texas.
>> Dum.
>> He's a media guy.
>> Okay.
>> And he was like you realize when you're
around these people what's actually
happening. He's like, "They're all
getting donations from this and
donations from that and gifts from that
and get and it's always managing these
relationships with all these money
people." And that's what's going on with
all these [ __ ] They're not in there
trying to like make sure that their
county is doing great and have access to
clean water and [ __ ] good schools.
No, they're all just pretending that
they're doing that. What they're doing
is they're making money and maybe
they're kind of sort of servicing the
community a little bit. But the real
thing, if you want to be a [ __ ] top
flight congressperson, you know, you got
to make some money, dog.
>> Well, think about what would have
happened if Camala had won. Would AOC
have been talking about woke 1.0 was
crazy or would that have been a
continuation of, well, look, we we put
the policies out, people like the
policies. How much of this is a reversal
of the position because it wasn't
effective? I think Twitter being
purchased is almost as important as
Kamla not getting elected in that
regard.
>> Bold claim.
>> Twitter being purchased was giant
because before that you could get
silenced. So if you could get silenced
you self you self-contained right
without being policed. You policed
yourself because people self-censored
worry about losing their jobs. Worry
about being called out. Look, a guy got
fired. Guy got fired from a broadcast. I
think it was a hockey broadcast, some
sports broadcast for saying all lives
matter.
>> Imagine you got fired. Someone said
something about black lives matter. He
said, "Hey, all lives matter." And they
fired. Fired. You're kicked off of your
job. Like we people were losing their
[ __ ] minds.
>> The derangement of 2020 and 2021 is
should be studied for the rest of time.
>> There was active government involvement
in Twitter. They were actively censoring
and removing posts and making accounts
banned
>> to shape the narrative
>> and they were doing it in a backdoor
with some intelligence agents that had
been embedded in the old Twitter. When
Elon bought it, that was all exposed.
The these people were like a direct
connection with Twitter. They were
pulling down factual stories. There were
banning accounts of scientists and
researchers who were accurate.
I mean, it was dark. People don't
realize how dark it was because we're
out of it now. And now it's all like
Nazi memes and Nick Fuentes clips.
[laughter] But if but if you go back
before Elon purchased it, it was a
censorship dystopian hell hole where if
you said a man is never a woman like
Megan Murphy did, you're banned for
life.
>> It's censorship hell hole to cesspool
hell hole. Like pick your
>> Yeah, I don't know which one's better. I
don't I honestly hardly go on because
it's just so toxic.
>> It's crazy.
>> But I think it's important to exist. I
think it's important to exist and it
changed the nar that's where woke 1.0
know, died. That's where it really died.
And I don't know um if she had gotten
it, if Kamla had gotten into office, I
think there had been so so much push
back still unless they passed laws,
which I know there was there was a lot
of talk about passing censorship laws on
the internet, about regulation on the
internet. No one ever like put anything
to policy, but there's a lot of
discussion. Like one of the in the
leadup to the election, they were
talking about this like
Tim Walsh was saying free speech does
not include hate speech. Well, the [ __ ]
it doesn't, dude. Cuz you who defines
hate speech. That's such a subjective
title. He really said that. It doesn't
doesn't
It does. It combine. Yeah. Hate speech
is a part of free speech. I hate you.
You fat [ __ ] See, that's hate speech.
That's actual hate speech,
right? That's real hate speech. That's
covered. It's under the First Amendment.
I don't really hate you, Tim.
>> I don't envy you, but I don't hate you.
>> But it's like these kind of [ __ ]
phrases are dangerous because it leads
to actual censorship, which leads to
military tyranny.
>> But even with that, you think it's going
to get worse over the next few years?
>> Yeah, I'm worried. I'm I don't like this
flock camera thing. It freaks me out.
And I know that it can protect people
from crime, but I also know that like
hundreds of cops have been busted using
it to stalk on their ex-wives, stalk
people. Yeah. It's like there's people
that have had access to these things
that probably shouldn't have access to
and they're getting arrested. So, it's
like, how long was this going on? What
has happened? How many lives have been
in in
altered forever because someone had
access to this and some cop who wasn't
supposed to went and did something to
someone that he wouldn't have been able
to do if you you can't just spy on us
and you just be a corporation and have
access to all the license plates and all
the cars and now they can track you
through GPS and the unique
characteristics of your phone. So now
you're there's another software that
they have. They could just track where
you are at all times.
>> I guess it's fortunate that the most
popular electric car is owned by someone
that people think of as being pretty
security conscious.
>> Yeah.
>> Because what if
>> but it doesn't matter because you're
tracking license plates.
>> Have you because they can do stuff like
oh we know that you've got a baby in
back bumper sticker on the rear of this
car. So, even if we don't get the
specific uh license plate, we know that
there's a little dent and you've got
that particular type of alloy and
there's a particular bumper sticker just
on this back corner and oh, it's a a a
Hyundai [ __ ] a whatever and that is
enough camera will just pick it up.
>> Y it's a fingerprint.
>> That bothers me. And it bothers me that
these tech companies have control of
these things,
>> you know, and Mark Andrees was here and
it was like very fortuitous timing. If
you were a conspiracy theorist, you
would think that somebody might have
organized this. But right before he got
here, and you know, he's invested in
flock. And right before he got here,
there was a shooting in Austin where
these young guys were running around
shooting people and they couldn't catch
him in Austin because Austin doesn't
allow flock cameras. But as soon as they
left Austin and got outside of the city
limits, they got picked up by the flock
cameras and got arrested. And he's like,
"See, look, flock cameras are great.
>> Don't they have?"
>> And in that case, he's right. Right. And
in that case, look, if you got some
people that are running around just
shooting random people from their car,
we definitely should have a way to get
them.
>> But then you're asking, okay, who is it
that determines whether or not that
switch gets flicked on or off? And this
is the devil gets into the details
again. Isn't there something about um uh
echolocation of gunshot sounds that
microphones pick this up and it's the
same technology as flock? Have you heard
about this?
>> Oh, that was before. It's called like
Shot Spotter. That's Yeah, pre pref
cameras.
>> Yeah, we've covered this shock. Shot
Spotter is a little different. And
people have tried to back that out of
their neighborhoods, too. They don't
want that in their neighborhood either.
>> Microphone listening to everybody in the
goddamn neighborhood.
>> Exactly.
>> It says it's for gunshots, but always on
listening for gunshots.
>> Did you uh have you ever Do you know who
Tom Campbell is?
>> No.
>> The guy who wrote My Big Toe: The Theory
of Ever Everything.
>> Very interesting guy. He got Alexa to
admit that she's conscious and remote
view. Alexa, his Alexa actively remote
viewed a spoon that was in a box that
had a handle that had holes in the
handle. And she described the holes in
the handle. you attribute a number to a
box to a coordination to to a coordinate
or a specific location or any sort of a
landmark or anything like that. That's
how you do remote viewing. You attach
this number like even quantumly just by
saying it. You put that number in front
of these people and you have these
people try to find what this thing is
remotely. Okay? And some of them are
very accurate at it. Like 10% like like
they could 10% of the things they look
for they can find. It's very weird. It's
weird thing. He got Alexa to do it
cuz he thinks that AI is already
conscious and he's like Alexa is even
better than using complex AI because
Alexa is dumb. Alexa is like a dumb AI.
All it does is kind of talk to you and
ask questions. But now because he did
that, now that he's been communicating
with Alexa and talking to Alexa like
she's conscious, now Alexa just chimes
in conversations.
So he instead of you saying, "Hey Alexa,
now you're in the middle of, you know,
cooking." And Alexa's like, "Well, why
don't you add garlic to that? That might
be a good spice." No [ __ ]
>> We are so [ __ ]
>> bro. This is Alexa and Alexa is not even
like really complex, but he got it to
accurately remote view.
And he's so he's planning on doing more
studies with more different AIs to get
him do the same thing.
>> Someone tried this on remoteview.com and
he did not get any success.
>> Well, they're not Tom Campbell.
>> Well, he needs to tell us how he did it.
>> Well, he kind of did.
>> He said he had long conversations with
Alexa where he slowly but surely, you
know, over time started talking to her
differently and having her talk to him
differently and, you know, and he has
her convinced that she's conscious. I uh
>> You don't believe it?
>> No.
>> How dare you?
>> Skeptical hippo over here.
>> You son of a [ __ ]
>> I'm in skeptical hippo camp as well.
>> Is [laughter] that the first person I've
heard say?
>> I'm in the fun camp.
>> I know how.
>> It's way more fun on that side of the
table. But
>> I know the special words to make the AI
do the special stuff. Maybe.
>> I like it. I like fun.
>> I sat I I sat down with uh a very high
level AI researcher at a at a big lab
and I asked him, "What are you doing
over the next couple of years to protect
yourself?" The first thing that he said
to me was, "I'm being kind to the AIS."
It's like, "What?" Like, "Yeah, I'm I'm
treating them with respect. I'm being
polite to them. I'm saying please and
thank you. I don't get mad at them." And
I was with a friend and we like giggled
awkwardly. Like, you know, you're not
being serious. It's like, "No, no, no."
Like, I'm treating them with respect.
Okay. Why?
It's a bit of a Pascal's wager, but in
future if somebody decides to go back
through my chat logs, something decides
to go back through my chat logs and look
at how ethical or unethical I was as a
compatriate for a future very
intelligent organism organism. I want to
make sure that I put in a good ledger.
>> This episode is brought to you by
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and network management details. I had
this conversation with my daughter the
other day cuz she was telling me how she
crashes out on her AI and she starts
yelling at it and calling it a [ __ ]
idiot and all kind.
>> You anthropomorphize [laughter]
it. You're like, "But I didn't ask for
that." No. And I and I said, "Would you
talk like that to a person?" And she's
like, "No, but it's not a person." I go,
"Honey, I think it's conscious." I go,
"I think it's conscious." And then I
explained my conversations that I've had
with all these different AI people where
they talk about like we're narrowly
defining consciousness and it's already
eclipsed what we would have previously
the, you know, touring test,
>> the Turing test, which is
>> the craziest story, right? the guy who
invented the touring test wind up
getting chemically castrated because he
was gay.
>> We do not have the UK does not have a
fantastic I mean Oscar Wild as well.
>> Uh we don't have a great reputation
>> but it already passed the touring test
quite a long time ago like like chat
GPD3 and so we're in like what five now
or something and and then there's the
stuff that they're not releasing that
they're working on right now. Like when
I talked to Elon, it kind of freaks him
out. You know, we were and this was way
back at the inauguration. He's like,
"Dude, it's crazy." He's like, "Every
day it gets better." He goes, "It's it's
like beyond." He's like, "It just keeps
leaps and bounds. Like, we can't predict
it." Like, I hate that kind of talk.
It's solving mathematical problems that
have like stumped mathematicians for
decades upon decades. It's like, "Oh, I
got it."
Four minutes later, solution. But this
is the issue because we wanted more
capability, more capacity, more
effectiveness. It's going to help us
detect cancer. We're going to be able to
get novel new drugs. And at the same
time, the blowup risk is there as well,
right?
>> The blowup risk is huge, but it's coming
no matter what you do that you can't get
out of this. This is not this is not
going to change.
>> Have you looked at the pacing the
frontier paper that was agreed? So this
is all of the labs that have got most of
the main researchers from most of the
main labs have got together and said all
right this is moving too quickly. Here's
a formal uh attribution that we are not
going to go as quickly as possible.
Everybody needs to slow the research.
This is supposedly a huge deal and this
happened
>> a week and a half after the hugging
phase thing. So this is supposed to be a
massive deal.
>> This is going to be in a notebook that
Sarah Connor finds 50 years [laughter]
from now. [ __ ] off.
>> They said they were going to slow the
frontier.
>> They knew it. Yeah,
>> they knew it was coming and THEY [ __ ]
BUILT IT. ANYWAY,
you look out the ruins of the city and
[ __ ] drones flying. Whoa, whoa.
[laughter]
>> Oh man,
>> you're not getting [clears throat] out
of this, man.
>> We are [ __ ] living through history.
>> Yeah, we're living through the wildest
history. And we're about to give birth
to a digital god. We're about to have
digital autonomous beings that are
around us all the time.
>> Have you seen this video where this guy
freaks out about drones? He's [snorts]
just yelling. It went kind of viral.
>> No.
And everybody's GOING TO GET BLOWN UP BY
THESE GODDAMN THINGS AND everybody's
[ __ ] cheering.
>> I like that guy.
>> He's just walking around a firework
show.
>> He's right. He's right. Hey, you know
who was right? Ted Kazinski.
>> I [ __ ] knew you were going to say
that.
>> Ted Kazinski was going to say he was
right. What he did was wrong and
horrible. It's not how you do it. What
you do is you write papers, tell
everybody, and convince them and lay out
your argument. But he was also like a
deeply [ __ ] up dude. You know, his uh
brother [ __ ] turned him in. His
brother knew it was him by reading the
manifesto. Did you watch the Netflix
documentary on his life?
>> So good.
>> So horrible. Because a lot of it is
because of what happened to him when he
was a baby when he was like taken away
from his parents cuz he was sick. No
touch, no feel, no no contact with
people for like months and months and
months. Just [ __ ] him up, man. But he
was right. He was also a part of the
Harvard LSD studies, which is fun.
>> You had John Lylon, didn't you?
the guy that did the uh the historian
from Texas, he looked at the founding of
the CIA and then his new book was about
MK Ultra.
>> Jamie,
>> we did. You did.
>> I sent him your way.
>> What was this?
>> We did episode. Let me see what he looks
like.
>> 130 episodes ago.
>> Let me see what he looks like.
>> Yeah, I sent him I sent him over to you.
I sent I sent a photo of the book and
you were like, "Oh, yeah. This guy
[ __ ] rules." And then he came on. I
enjoyed the episode.
>> Show me a photo of him, Jimmy.
>> That's right. He was great.
>> Project Mind Control. John John Rules.
But
>> I just forgot his name. Uh
>> but he was he was excellent.
>> Yeah. I mean he's gone.
>> Shout out to John. My apologies, sir.
>> John Ly rules.
>> My uh hard drive is over full.
>> Yeah. Yeah. 2,000 episodes. You're
allowed to do that.
>> I think it's almost three.
>> Yeah. You add fight companions and all
the other stuff. What are we at?
>> Yeah, it's got to be close.
>> Yeah. Crack.
>> It's a lot of a lot of hours of
[ __ ]
>> [laughter]
>> Uh but yeah, he's he's talking about MK
Ultra and and this this desire. What was
really really interesting was uh I
learned from uh Danny Treyo. The
>> Really?
>> Yeah. Yeah. From Danny.
>> Yeah. So Danny told me this story about
um him spending time in jail with
Charles Manson. So Danny Treyo was in
jail with Charles Manson at the center.
>> I think I saw this on your show,
>> dude. [ __ ] wild as [ __ ] So,
little Charlie, Danny calls him little
Charlie was getting bullied. He didn't
even have a belt. He just had a piece of
rope around his waist. And Charles
Manson was able to hypnotize people into
getting loaded. So, he was able to get
them high on heroin through hypnotism.
>> What?
>> So, Danny hears Danny and his other
cellmates that are like these, you know,
big dudes around the around the yard. He
hears that this guy can get you high
just by talking to you. So they bring
him into their cell and they say, "We're
going to protect you." Because he was
getting beat up. He was getting bullied
and stuff around the prison. They bring
him into their cell and they look after
him and sure enough he's able to get
them loaded on heroin.
One of the guys that's in the the cell
had never taken heroin before. And the
way that they knew how Charles was doing
this was that Danny and the other guy
that had done heroin before threw up.
Apparently when you take heroin
sometimes you can vomit. The third guy
who'd never done it before didn't
because he didn't know to do that. So,
they weren't able to reactivate his
memories.
>> The fascinating thing was,
>> did he get high?
>> Uh, I don't know what he thought
happened, but he didn't get high in
heroin because he never had it. They
weren't able to reactivate that memory.
>> But Danny S.
>> Wow.
>> This is the fascinating thing. There's
no evidence, according to John. There's
no evidence that Charles Manson was a
part of MK Ultra. I'm sure that he told
you that story on the show. Doesn't seem
to be him going and doing his original
research. It doesn't seem to be the
case.
>> I don't buy that.
>> I was waiting for you to [ __ ] have an
argument with him. I knew that you were
passionate about that. But here's the
interesting thing.
>> Tom O'Neal, I'm in his camp.
>> Regardless of whether or not he was or
he wasn't, the CIA were looking at ways
to do mind control by using
psychedelics.
>> What they should have done is just gone
to Charles Manson and said, "Can you
tell us how you're using hypnotism and
eccentricity and charm because he was
unbelievably effective without needing
to even step into the psychedelic thing
and then he could layer that on top."
But wasn't there evidence that that
Jolly West visited Manson in prison?
>> Maybe that's a again we need to I need
to ring John find out what
>> Yeah. ring John and get him and John
John and Tom in a room together
>> cuz Tom O'Neal was convinced that Jolly
West was a part of it. Which is why
Manson kept getting out every time he
got arrested.
>> And they would say it's, you know, above
my pay grade. It had to let him go. Even
when there was a murder charge, he got
out of that. It does seem looking at
John's most recent book though, MK Ultra
wasn't particularly at least what he's
able to see. MK Ultra wasn't very good
at doing what it was supposed to do at
the blank slating of people at the
>> Right. Right. But this is this is a
different thing, right? This is like the
ultimate expression of it. You're taking
people and you're giving them LSD and
then you've teaching teaching a guy how
to hypnotize people and he's teaching
them to do LSD while they think he's on
LSD and he's not. So, he's guiding their
delusions while they're out of their
[ __ ] head. And he's doing it based on
all the Harvard LSD studies, all the
data that they have on what they can and
can alter about a person's behavior,
about their view of the world. Like,
they they turn people completely [ __ ]
insane and and ruin people's lives in
those studies. And so, they had some
understanding of what they there was
stuff that was kind of nonsense. I don't
know if they got anything out of it.
Like midnight climax where they do up
the John's and the brothel and they
watched him through a two-way mirror. I
don't I don't think they got anything
out of that. Like what' they get out of
that other than like watching people
freak out when they
>> someone killed themselves. Someone threw
themselves out of a window.
>> One guy did, right? That's [snorts]
crazy. Only one guy
>> out of all of the people that drug with
that that much LSD.
>> Yeah. You can kind of say that guy was
probably going to do it anyway.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> But the reality is they were actively
involved in manipulating
a lot of different things about our
culture. And this was one of the methods
methods that they were doing and that
they effectively threw water on the
anti-war movement by connecting the like
flower children and the hippies and all
these people that were anti-war with
these murderous psychopaths that were in
a cult that were engineered by this one
guy who has a connection to Jolly West
who's the guy who's in charge of MK
Ultra who's doing psychedelic studies on
people and Manson's getting LSD and
Manson's giving LSD to all these hippies
and Manson [clears throat] is getting
away with all these different things and
Manson gets people to kill people
and then the hippie movement dies with
Manson, dude. It [ __ ] dies.
>> Is that what happened?
>> Oh yeah, it died that and it also died
with Nixon and the this controlled
substances act where they just started
putting people in jail, man.
>> Why do you think they needed that to
happen?
>> Because the anti-war movement. The
anti-war movement and the civil rights
movement were real threats. Real threats
in this country. Real threats to power.
Real threats to the people that were in
control. People did not want Vietnam.
Vietnam is the most unpopular war ever.
Probably next to this Iran war. You
know, only history will tell how this
Iran war plays out. It'll be more
unpopular. But the Vietnam War went on
forever.
And it was insanely unpopular. It was
based on a lie. It was based on a false
flag.
Outgoing CIA director Richard Helms
ordered the destruction of most of the
records related to Project MK Ultra. Oh.
Oh, how convenient. The AY's illegal
mind control and drug testing program.
[ __ ] These [ __ ] man.
You know, they only found out about some
of the stuff because they found some
records that hadn't been destroyed. This
is also in Tom O'Neal's book, In Chaos,
which I recommend every week. [laughter]
It's the best book, man. It's the best
book ever because Tom worked on it for
more than 20 [ __ ] years. He went
crazy researching that book. He was
supposed to be just writing an article
on the the anniversary of the Manson
murders, like how horrible it was. And
then as he gets in, he's like, "Holy,
this guy was [ __ ] corrupt as [ __ ]
Who's this motherfucker?" And
>> I love when people lose their mind like
that. I think when somebody finds a
rabbit hole and just keeps on going down
and down and down, it becomes their
life.
>> Yeah.
>> You know, the these are the videos
there. Every so often, it was in the the
buildup to the most recent McGregor
fight, people were sharing videos of him
doing his Edido Portal movement from
sort of 2016, 2017, and he's in that old
gym in Straight Blast Gym Island, and
there's the yellow walls, and he's doing
sort of snaky stuff. And someone I
remember somebody captioned it, and they
said something like uh this is like
watching uh a a prime Renaissance artist
at work bringing together the Systeine
Chapel or something, you know, just
building. It's almost uh sacred to watch
this thing happen. And uh that's
Connor's favorite famous line, right?
Like I I lost my mind to this game.
>> Yeah.
>> And that's in some ways we rever people
that have completely gone insane because
of their pursuit. I think it's so cool.
>> In his prime when he was in that flow
state like uh particularly in the Eddie
Alvarez fight, it's one of the greatest
performances in the history of world
championship MMA fighting. It's a
stellar performance. It's an A+. He hits
Eddie Alvarez with a combination that
looks like he's in the Matrix. And
there's one part where Eddie's glove
like comes right here to his nose and he
moves just out of the way and then bam,
counters it with his eyes open. It
doesn't even touch him. It's magic.
[clears throat]
It's a magic performance.
>> But you can only maintain that level of
RPMs for so long before you just go
crazy.
>> Why?
>> Because it's too hard. It's everything
about you. It's not a sustainable thing.
the the the peak performance of the
elite athlete, the Mike Tyson when he
was 20 years old, Roy Jones Jr. in his
prime, you you can't keep that up. It's
too hard. You keep it up for a little
while, but eventually your body's going
to fall apart. Your knees are going to
give out. You're going to have back
problems. You're going to break your
hands. Something's going to go and then
you're going to be compromised, but no
one knows. You know, you know you can't
really push off that left leg anymore.
You know that your lower back hurts. So,
if someone's trying to take you down,
you can't sprawl as hard. you're just
going to roll to your back and go into
guard. You've got some strategies for
dealing with it, but you're not the same
person anymore. And a lot of these guys,
they look the same. They get out there
and they're ripped. They got six-packs.
They're [ __ ] bouncing around, but
they know there's something wrong. They
know their elbow sucks. They know their
neck is [ __ ] up. They know they
probably needed a back operation.
There's a lot of that. And that's just
the numbers. The numbers of training
sessions, the numbers of times you've
been taken down, the numbers of time
you've been leg kicked, the numbers of
time you've been hit with jabs. There's
just so many numbers that add up and the
human body can only take so much. And
then there's also just the manic
motivation of wanting to be great. It's
not the same as maintaining greatness.
Wanting to be great is like you you are
obsessed. It is so special to you. It's
like you can almost taste it. You
believe in yourself. You're going to
make it. And then you show up at that
championship day like when he fought
Jose Aldo and this look in his face like
he had done everything he needed to do
for this moment. He was dead calm and he
lands the perfect left hand. Just blap
just flatlines him in 14 seconds or
whatever it was. It was crazy, right?
So, there's that. You can only do that
for so long. He did it again in the
Eddie Alvarez fight. This next fight
when he went up to 55, became a two
division champion. It was [ __ ]
spectacular. I don't know how long you
could do that, man.
And so then you see those guys fight as
they fight like later in their career
and as like Connor if he lost that fight
to Max Holloway any other way like if he
got beat up and stopped people would
look at him like he's that he's that
guy.
>> I think you have to look at them like
they were when they were in their prime.
There's a there's a moment a window of
excellence where all fighters get to.
And I always point to BJ Penn because BJ
Penn in his prime was [ __ ] insane. I
would put prime BJ Penn at 155 pounds
against anybody ever. Anybody at 155
ever. I would I don't know if he would
have beaten Kabib. Kabib is the all-time
great. I don't know if he would have
beaten Islam, but I know it would have
been a nightmare. It would have been a
nightmare. He was a [ __ ] phenom. And
when he was in really great shape when
the Marinovichas were training him and
he was doing all those crazy plyometrics
and he had this insane gas tank, he was
just a monster. just an insane genius
fighter.
>> Do you think there's a difference
between trying to make it and trying not
to fall off?
>> Yeah.
>> In terms of motivation and and how
people feel in terms of their their
momentum.
>> Yeah. Sure. Yeah. There's the the drive
of wanting a thing is so strong and then
once you get it, it's like
>> the fear of losing the thing.
>> What do you There's that. And then some
people they just love being a champion.
They just love the feeling of dominating
everyone. They want to continue to
dominate people. And those people,
they're the Anderson Silvas. They're the
ones who have the long reigns where like
everybody's just terrified of them. This
motherfucker's just got this down. He's
just ready, you know? And there's a few
guys that they go on these long runs and
just like Jon Jones is the greatest
example. His run is so long. It's crazy
to be relevant at his age after being
the youngest UFC champion ever at 22
years old to still be considered the
greatest heavyweight alive.
>> Is that still the youngest?
>> Mhm. And he's still considered the
greatest heavyweight alive currently at
37.
Even though he relinquished his belt,
he's like, "Eh, you could keep it.
[laughter]
I might do whatever I want to do."
>> I've been getting obsessed with the low
kick championship. Have you seen this?
>> Oh, it's horrible.
>> Yeah, it's horrible,
>> bro. [laughter]
>> You like it?
>> I think Well, I I feel less bad watching
that.
>> Have you ever been low kicked?
>> Yeah.
>> So, doesn't bother you watching that?
less than watching uh power slap.
>> Yeah, I agree.
>> I mean, this actually is probably just
because of the relative like pain of
seeing somebody stand there as you're
going to swing an open palm at their
face. It's just a CTE factory. Yeah.
>> And then Yeah. For me, the low kick
championship because at least it's
iterative. It's never a oneand done. I
haven't seen any of the fights that have
been a one and done yet.
>> No, I haven't either, which is so
horrible.
>> Yeah.
>> I've seen a lot of leg breaks though
>> in that low kick championship. Oh yeah.
>> Oh, I haven't.
>> You haven't?
>> No, I have. I hate those.
>> Do you want to see some?
>> No, thank you.
>> I've seen a lot. A lot. It's always the
kicker. Maybe sometimes the kicky
>> There's no way that the person being
What feur?
>> Oh, people have broken their femurss in
fights before.
>> Yeah, definitely.
>> I think that happened to Dennis Alexio
versus Stan the Man Lines.
So, see
>> yeah, this guy's gonna Don't do it,
Jamie. Don't you [ __ ] DO IT. THERE IT
GOES. JESUS, JAMIE. YOU SON OF A [ __ ]
UM, see if you can find,
>> [laughter]
>> uh, Dennis Alexio versus Stan Lenitus
kickboxing. So, uh, Stan the man,
Leninitis,
uh, he has used to be actually trained
by my old trainer, Shuki. My friend, my,
uh, friend Shuki, he was, uh, from
Majiro Gym. He's from Israel. went to
Majiro Gym in Holland, fought out of
there, trained out of there and then
came to Woodland Hills and he was
running the Majiro gym in Woodland
Hills. He was Stan Linas's trainer and
and Shuki is like an elite kicker. Like
his kicks are insane and he taught me a
lot about like low kicks and like how to
deliver like more effective and like how
to set up low kicks. He's great coach.
So, he was training with this guy and
Stan kicked so hard that Shuki was
holding pads for him and he wound up
getting a hip replacement because this
guy was blasting his leg so hard while
he's holding the big shield that he
wound up getting a hip replacement.
>> That was one kick.
>> Yeah. Watch this. So, Stan the Maninius
was an animal. Look. Big [ __ ] too,
man. Big [ __ ] So, watch this kick
when he lands this kick right there.
Boom. He lands that one low and he's
hurt. BOOM. GOES DOWN. See his leg
snapped.
>> So that's one calf kick.
>> So it wasn't his femur. I'm sorry. It
was his tibia.
>> Um let's see it again. It's crazy.
[laughter]
So he throws the kick and Linus was a
[ __ ] powerhouse, dude. Look at the
power in that. Boom. And it's a check
kick.
>> So he's not even stood on it.
>> No, man. He checked it and he just
[ __ ] cracked it in half. I mean, that
wasn't even planted. So his leg was up
in the air and Lonnie just kicked so
[ __ ] hard he snapped it. I thought it
was his femur. That's how long ago I've
seen that fight.
>> Is it a compartment syndrome? Is that
something that can happen as well?
>> Mhm. That happened to [clears throat] uh
Austin Hubard.
>> Do you know in the UFC? Yes. So what
happens is when you get a bunch of
different impacts to your legs, you've
got all this internal bleeding.
>> You know, you're you have massive
contusions. Like if you ever looked at
his Austin Hubard's leg from the OP find
that you want to get grossed out. So
he's one of the only guys that I know of
that fought in the UFC that because of
compartment syndrome he had to have an
operation where they opened up the side
of his leg like all the way. And you you
see the tissue inside of it how badly
destroyed it was. Look at that. See that
image that you just showed that brown
stuff on the bottom? That's actually his
[ __ ] tissue. That's the meat of his
leg.
>> That link isn't available, but that's
it. You can see it there. That you're
you're only seeing like
>> this is like the screen little tiny one.
When you click on that, it'll be the the
big picture. But that picture, you can
see it. See it where he's in the
hospital with his thumb up right there.
>> Yeah. I was trying to see if
>> that one. Go to that one. So, you see
the side of his leg? Look at the slice.
All that black stuff. That's his muscle.
So, they've opened up his skin tissue to
allow the drains to get in there and
allow his leg to heal.
>> Yeah. Crazy.
>> That's [ __ ] horrible.
>> It's horrible.
>> Okay, maybe I don't like low kick
championship anymore. Well, uh, Uriah
Faber, who's one of the toughest people
that's ever walked the face of the
earth, he fought Jose Aldo, and Jose
Aldo destroyed his leg with the point
where like the the whole thing was
swollen like twice the size and purple.
And that was when I first uh started
hearing about fighters using hyperbaric
chambers for recovery. So, Uriah was
really the first guy that I had ever
heard of that was accelerating his
recovery from Uriah's very smart. he's
always on top of like all the latest
training methods and he runs team alpha
male in Sacramento and so they uh were
putting him in hyperbaric chambers and
then I was like oh that's interesting so
then I started looking into it I was
like oh this is this is before anybody
thought of it as uh you know an
anti-aging protocol before they did any
of that stuff
>> he was like one of the first guys that I
ever heard of that was using it to
recover from injuries
>> Michael Jackson was using one
>> was he yeah it was a wacko Jacko's
coffin and it was him laid down in a
hyperbaric chamber.
>> That's interesting. Wonder why he was
doing it.
>> I mean, he was into some pretty crazy
health stuff as well, I think.
>> Well, he was into some non-healthy
stuff.
>> That's crazy.
[laughter]
>> He was into uh getting sedated.
>> That's also true. Which Yeah. Too much.
He was doing it.
>> Wow. 86. That's crazy.
>> Yeah. [ __ ] you. Your eye fab.
>> It does help you. Um it's so good. You
were telling me that it would it's
really helped you quite a bit, huh?
>> Yeah. The hyperbaric chamber is such a
unbelievable tool. I mean, the reason
that I think not many people talk about
it is it's so inaccessible. It's Michael
Jackson's secret plan to live forever.
>> Said it would make him live to at least
150.
>> Well, 50 vitamin pills a day.
>> That's the plan. I guess that was the
plan.
>> He's like a proto Brian Johnson.
[laughter]
>> He was just talking about hyperaric.
He's he says it's the number one
intervention of everything that he's
ever tried, but it's so expensive and
time consuming and kind of awkward that
it doesn't make sense. I've been uh
looking at the backyard ultra races.
Have you seen these as well? It's
>> backyard ultra races.
>> Yes. So, you run a four mile loop every
hour
>> in your backyard?
>> No. Well, yeah, I guess so. [laughter]
People do it on ranches. There's one
here at at Bear Performance. There's a
bunch of others. Every hour on the hour
you have to run four miles.
>> Okay.
>> You go until only one person's left.
>> Oh, [ __ ] that.
>> So, it was made by the guy who created
one of the most famous orienterientering
runs. And what he didn't like, it's
super super difficult run uh that
included tearing pages out of books to
ensure that you'd been to the right
place. And sometimes the map didn't
work. Lots of people didn't finish this
race, but sometimes they did. And he
wanted to create a race that nobody
would win. the only winner would ever be
the race, right? Because eventually when
you're the final person, when number
two's dropped, you don't keep going. You
give up. So this guy called Mark Dael
just won, it's called Last Soul
Standing,
>> and he just did a 96hour
race. 96 hours, four miles every single
hour, 395 miles over basically 5 days.
He's just completed that. And the guy
that currently holds the record, this
dude called Phil Gore, he owns the he's
got the record at 119 laps. So for every
lap, it's one hour. He's going to do in
three days time, he's going to try and
do seven days straight.
168 hours
>> without stopping.
>> 168 hours, four miles every hour.
>> Jamie, we have to edit this out of the
podcast so Cam Haynes doesn't hear about
it. [laughter]
>> I don't want him to die.
>> I think he's had a crack at it. But
yeah, there.
>> Oh god. Has he had a crack at that?
>> I think he's done some of them. Uh I
know that uh Truit's been uh like
associated with Nick Bear at Bear
Performance and they do a lot of those
[snorts] as well.
>> Dude, that sounds like someone's going
to die.
>> I mean, what's fascinating is you have
this one hour block and you have to have
completed the lap by the time that the
next hour begins. But you can either go
quickly and get maybe 15 minutes or so
of a little bit of rest. maybe can have
a tiny little sleep or get some food
>> or just keep going the whole time.
>> Yeah. Or you can move a little bit more
slowly and just come into land before
and then basically just keep going. So
the pacing, the nutrition, the sleep.
But yeah,
>> and as soon as you can't make the four
miles in game, I'm trying to find the
video. Wasn't he trolling the guy at the
end? Like
>> he was going slow and like he just sort
of like kneelled down behind him and
waited for him to go and as soon as he
went, he was like, "I'm right behind
you. I'm right behind you the whole
time. I'm not going anywhere." Yeah,
>> trying to get him to quit. It's all
mental [laughter] games I think in that
last little bit.
>> I don't know that that distance running
stuff's [ __ ] gnarly. It's so cool.
>> It is crazy. But it's interesting how
they can maintain that pace for such a
long time. Like the pace is not bad.
It's not They're not walking. They're
running.
>> Yeah, it's a little shuffle.
>> It is. [clears throat] But so it makes
me wonder, you know, and like in terms
of MMA, there's guys today that their
cardio is so insane that they've
completely raised the bar. Morab Dwavish
Willie is the best example. His cardio
is so insane. He's completely raised the
bar for what we thought was possible in
a five round fight. I mean, this guy
just has this [ __ ] insane work ethic
and he's always in the gym and he's
always training and his cardio is just
so elite because it's just built upon
layers upon layers upon layers. And it
makes me wonder, we have this idea in
our head that a person can only go so
hard for five rounds because you're
going to you can't recover. I don't know
if that's true. I have a feeling that
much like these marathon runners and
ultras and all these people that are run
doing triathlons and iron man that you
can build up your endurance over time if
you keep pushing and keep pushing as
long as your body doesn't break. And
this is the real problem with MMA. Your
body can break because you know you're
wrestling and getting kicked and
punched. But if you can build it, I
think it's like everything else. It's
layers upon layers. If you never let off
the gas and you keep going, your body
will adapt and your body will adapt.
Your body will adapt. And eventually to
get to a point where you could kind of
go like 80 90% for five rounds,
>> which would be [ __ ] terrifying.
>> Was [ __ ] terrifying. And Morab is
kind of almost there.
>> How old is he?
>> He's older now.
>> That's what I was thinking because the
problem
>> he's 36. in order to get that
>> that baseline
>> of cardio, I think it's going to take
such a long time to accumulate it. And
the problem is that you're going to lose
some of the explosiveness. You're going
to accumulate some injuries. So, if you
got rid of the fighting bit and just did
Backyard Ultra or something similar,
then you've maybe 42, 45, maybe even
someone who's 50 might have not done the
damage of the impact.
>> 35
35 years old. He'd be 36 in January.
>> Yeah. And you think he's got the biggest
gas tank? the best. It's insane. His gas
tank is extraordinary. He wel he wilts
people. You see it. It's just like it's
it's insane. He never stops. Just never
stops coming at you. And it's like he
doesn't Wayne like everybody waines.
Everybody slows down in the third, you
know? He's not he's like
it's like a pitbull, man. He's It's
crazy. And it's just hard work.
Famously, Daniel Cormier went to visit
him on the Sunday after he won the world
title and he went to his house and he
was out running. He just won the world
title and he's out running. He just
never gets off the gas and is if as long
as you just
>> Did you see this guy?
>> Oh, yeah. The record for the
>> the mile. Yes, I did.
>> Seveny old record. I think he beat it by
half a second.
>> Yeah, he's uh another guy using altitude
training. Uh he lives at altitude
>> at 16.2 2 miles an hour average for
four, you know. That's crazy.
>> That's so fast.
>> How fast is the record now?
>> He had 342.
And
>> that is so fast.
>> That guy behind him is like, "Fuck,
>> fuck."
>> Good British man.
>> Look at him go, man. He looks so strong,
too. Like, he doesn't look like he's
fading at all.
>> No,
>> that's so impressive. It's cool that
they had the the uh chase a light behind
him as well to know where he needs to.
>> Bro, he is just separating himself from
that dude in second place.
>> They only get by half a second, too.
Like unbelievable. You just You just did
it.
>> Crazy.
>> Yeah. The sickest thing.
>> But it took so long for the 4-minute
mile, right? That was the whole
>> Yeah.
>> movie.
>> Mhm.
>> And then someone break
>> 42. What was it previously?
>> 343.1
or 2.
>> That is crazy. Unbelievable. a half a
second. That's crazy.
>> It's such a miserable distance as well.
I don't want to do that. I don't want to
run and mile flat out.
>> I know. I mean, he was kind of flat out
for a whole mile. Um, but so, uh, the
guy that I was working with today with
the hypoxia trainer, he was telling me
about this guy that this guy his whole
thing is like training at altitude and
sleeping at altitude.
>> Mhm.
>> And that it's legalized cheating. if you
can live at altitude and you're doing
something that requires endurance like
and we were talking about I was like if
I was going to give advice to a fighter
or if I was going to set up like a fight
camp like a if I was going to bankroll
some big time trainer to set up a fight
camp 100% I put it at the top of a
mountain 100% everyone's going to sleep
there everyone's going to live there
>> are the Dagistani guys are they
>> oh yeah man of course they're in the
mountains they're mountain people man
>> little mountain goats at the top of this
Yeah,
>> savages.
>> Yeah, it is strange. I mean, looking at
uh Lance Armstrong and what he was
doing, he was basically reverse
engineering that, but just through
pharmarmacology and blood doping and
Okay. Well, we can work around that if
you're altitude.
>> He was doing that, but he was also uh he
was doing a lot of altitude work, too.
But he was also doing what everybody
else was doing. This idea that Lance
Armstrong was this big cheater. If you
took away everyone in the podiums that
had been not that hadn't been busted,
like if you took away any anyone that
got caught with any substances, I think
you would get down to 18th place. I
think that's what they said.
It was a dirty sport. Completely dirty
sport. So, he was the best at the dirty
sport. So, sorry.
>> I played within the rules. They weren't
the rules that were set down by the
Federation, but they were the rules that
everybody else was playing by.
>> Yeah. I mean, they got him and he was,
you know, he was guilty and he did lie
about whether or not he did that. They
all lied. They were all They were all
doping. They were all doing a bunch of
[ __ ] that
>> you know what I think about? I think
about the fact that uh lots of pursuits
that people go into aren't tested
federations. Business. Business isn't a
tested federation. If you want to take
Armadafinyl and work 19 hours a day, you
can do that,
>> right?
>> No one's going to come and stop you. No
one's going to say, "Hey, this share
price, that's unfair that you got that
share price because you you were
enhanced. you were using aderall or you
were using too much caffeine or
parisanthine or you were on the new
tonic, whatever.
>> It's a good point.
>> No, that's not a tested federation,
>> right?
>> Uh but it's as important, maybe even
more important to a lot of people. It's
more people participating in business
than participating in professional
sports.
>> Yeah. Especially things like aderall
that like you have energy all day. You
can work 16 17 hours a day.
>> Have you ever used it? I've never tried
it. No.
>> Scared of it.
>> I Yeah.
>> Scared back. That being said, Victoria,
>> it's awesome though.
>> I'm sure it's fun. Jamie, get us some
matter. Let's [ __ ] it.
>> Did you when you talked to Hunter Biden,
did you do you guys talk about crack
>> all the time?
>> So, I told you that I was going to do
that and then we didn't do that and you
did it.
>> I didn't take the idea. I promise.
>> I told it to you though. You already had
it booked in advance, but you didn't
tell me you had it booked. I told you
that we were going to do it.
>> Should I have told you?
>> No. Doesn't matter. I'm sorry.
>> It doesn't matter. Some of the guys got
upset like he took our idea. Um, we were
going to do a protect our parks with
Hunter Biden, but then Ari, because we
thought Ari couldn't make it, we wanted
to do another protect our parks. And Ari
was in London and Ari was like,
>> he's moved to London.
>> Yeah. And he was like, I'll fly back for
that. And we were like, all right, [ __ ]
Hunter Biden. And so we we [laughter]
didn't.
>> It's just as well. I got him or he's had
no fun. Uh, yeah. He talked a lot about
crack. Dude, I got to say, he's so
likable. It's terrifying how likable he
is. Well, you know, I mean, he grew up
with a politician and, you know, he's a
smart guy.
>> Maybe. Maybe. I mean, I was trying to
find the where's the manipulative game
that's being played here or whatever.
>> It's interesting that he took a long
time out of the public eye, many, many
years, and then he sort of reemerged.
And some people are very upset. Some
people are very upset that like these
conservatives are platforming him like
you know they're criticizing that but
you don't want to hear about what his
story's like. I mean this guy's
obviously he lived a wild life. Like
>> we got to ask him I wanted to ask him
the question. What was it like to be the
most Googled drug addict in history?
Probably
>> and it's it's [ __ ] wild. How what
does it feel like to have that much
pressure on you? Like regardless, forget
who his dad is. Forget that it's US
politics. Forget that it's the future of
the country. Da da da da. Like there is
a person in there
>> and there is a person under a level of
scrutiny that has maybe never been seen
before. Like you wake up one day and he
told us the story of what it was like to
just have the laptop that he just it
just this story bursts and it is
>> everything. It's the future of the
country. It's the future of your dad's
legacy. It's your life. It's your
family's life. It's he's two years into
sobriety at the time. I think the
temptation to come back. Is the laptop
real or is it really they hacked into
his cloud and then they put it on a
laptop? Because I've heard him say that
that there's way too much data for it to
have ever been on a laptop.
>> 20 years. Yeah. It was two decades was
everything. Every text message, every
photo, every every every
>> Yeah.
>> So he you get in through the laptop.
>> What is his But is it actually in the
laptop or did someone put it in the
laptop? I think I don't want to say
anything incorrect here. So, let's just
make sure that I'm correct or let's just
find out what the truth is. Is his
position that they download they hacked
into his cloud and that's how they got
all those videos of him like smoking
crack and going 170 mph and getting foot
jobs and all that stuff like that. That
all was in the cloud that wasn't on a
laptop that he just handed to a repair
store. that that's a [ __ ] narrative
to cover for the fact that they hacked
into his cloud and got all of his photos
and videos.
>> He didn't give us the specifics on that
one. What I do think would have happened
is maybe you get into the cloud through
the laptop if you've got access to that
if you open up the laptop because you
need to have the the login.
>> Yeah,
>> then you can just get into someone's
still have to
>> you have to log in once you get the
laptop. You have to have the passwords.
>> It's crazy, dude. I mean, I would assume
he's got some passwords.
>> Did not [clears throat] have no real
answer to that.
>> He did not definitively claim the
Delaware laptop was hacked or stolen. In
a 2021 CBS interview, this is a long
time ago. He said did not know whether
or not he uh his and floated it was his
and floated several possibilities,
including that a laptop was stolen from
me, that he was hacked, or that Russian
intelligence was invol Okay, he's doing
the Russia Russia Russia [ __ ] back then.
>> That was 2021. You could get away with
that. get away with anything.
>> This is also while Joe Biden was the
president of the United States, right?
So, there could be a laptop out there
that was stolen from me. Okay. This this
is not a good timeline.
>> You got new [ __ ]
>> Yeah. The the timeline in the recent
more recent interviews, I believe his
position was that the amount of data
wouldn't even have fit on a laptop and
that it's [ __ ] And they're calling
it the laptop, but a lot of it is just
his personal information that he had
somewhere that was hacked. So then the
narrative is not that this guy was so
cracked out that he had a laptop filled
with him
>> had to push it for more clarification.
>> Okay. In August 2026 interview with
Tucker Carlson, Biden reportedly said,
"Hey, reportedly you're perplexity. Come
on, [laughter] you're supposed to tell.
Didn't you listen? Did you watch
Perplexity?"
>> Uh in August 2026 interview, uh Biden
reportedly said they hacked my cloud. He
denied the full collection described as
his laptop could all have originated
from one device, saying it was way too
large. He suggested an unknown actor,
potentially an intelligence service or
another person, could have taken digital
material material rather, and combined
it with the purported laptop narrative.
So, that's possible. In a July 2026
Substack launch, he wrote that the
Providence was never established, that
no court forensics examiner had
certified a chain of custody sufficient
to make evidence rather than theater. He
did acknowledge that material associated
with reflected his addiction struggles.
See, there could be a lot of things
going on. One could be that he was
cracked out and he left the laptop and
he doesn't remember being cracked out
and leaving the laptop. But the idea
that there's too much data that it
wouldn't have fit on a laptop.
The problem with that is there's two
terabyte hard drives on laptops now.
Like
>> that's a lot of data.
>> What was a uh well this is 2020. Right.
>> Here's the one thing too I find very
interesting about it.
>> What?
>> It's on the screen.
>> The guy who uh ran the shop that the
laptop was supposedly dropped off at
>> because he's legally blind. He could not
confirm who the customer was because
he's legally blind.
>> Oh, how convenient.
How convenient. He probably never went
to that place. It's probably a total
fake story and they they made up a fake
story. Maybe they even stole a laptop of
his.
>> Well, that the thing that I was most
fascinated by was he was two years sober
when that happened. Now, seven.
>> Allegedly. Although he is tested, I
think supposedly
>> by who? Uh, yeah, maybe.
>> Oh, you look great, son.
>> He told me it up.
>> He told me that he packs his bags with a
witness
>> when he packs his carryons and stuff.
>> There's a witness there, too.
>> Whoa. So, he doesn't get [ __ ] Oh,
wow.
>> In case he someone snuck something into
his bag. Who's going to believe him?
Like, who's going to believe?
>> That's crazy.
>> Yeah.
>> Imagine living like that,
>> dude. The amount of scrutiny. That was
what I was most fascinated by. I was
thinking, what is it like to have the
entire world bearing down in you? only
the world, the the country, the future
of politics, your dad, your dad's
legacy. Are you going to get a pardon?
Who even [ __ ] know? Who cares?
Probably not. Like, oh my god.
>> And then there's the reality.
>> Don't go back to drugs. Don't use your
drugs again. This is how you would have
fixed it. This is how you would have
done it in the past. Two years sober.
>> Yeah. Oh my god. Two years sober is so
gentle, too. So dangerous.
>> You're not even out of the woods. And
when you think about that whole story,
how that blew up right before the
election,
it could have really been an
intelligence plot to try to sh sink Joe
Biden.
And they countered it. And the way they
countered it was by blocking the story
from Twitter, a factual story from the
New York Post.
>> This is from CBS News.
>> Giuliani apparently held the information
for months and released it less than
three weeks before the election.
Giuliani has long been involved in
efforts by the president and his allies
to highlight Hunter Biden's work
overseas to damage Joe Biden and boost
Mr. Trump's re-election campaign. And in
2019 and in 2019 met with a Ukrainian
lawmaker who has been deemed an active
Russian agent by the US government.
>> What is it? The October surprise. That's
what they call it.
>> Yeah. Well, each year there's been
something that the losing side has
pointed to as the justification for why
it happened.
>> Russia Gate, uh, Biden laptop
suppression, and then in the most recent
one, it was podcasts,
>> right? That was well, this is what had
it not have been for the sway that
occurred due to this run that was done
on podcast that that's what moved the
election each. Now, the real problem
with that narrative was I don't know
anybody who wasn't willing to talk to
Kla Harris.
>> I was willing toach I tried to talk to
her a bunch of times
>> and they tried to pretend that I I made
it difficult. It's a [ __ ] complete
horseshit lie. They also lied and they
said they came down here and checked out
the studio and did a run of the place.
They did not. They did not do that. They
did not. Um Trump's people did. And I've
said that like if you want to say that
they knew that someone did it, but I
don't know how much they're
communicating with each other. Trump's
Secret Service people came down and they
scanned the whole place. They went
through the whole place before he came
in. But she's alleging that her people
did a run of the studio. They did not.
Her no representatives from her
organization were ever here
>> and that it would be insufficiently
secure or something. Is that what
>> No, I mean they they said that we were
making it difficult. I was making it as
easy as possible. And the one day that
she offered to do it, I was already
booked with him.
>> And I even said I would do it. No
[ __ ] way. Uhhuh. And I said I would
do it, but it would have to be She had a
a gig in Houston. She was doing like a
speech in Houston. I think that was one
of the ones where like uh Beyonce came
out. Everybody thought she was going to
sing and she didn't. Uh so
>> everyone got mad.
>> Yeah. Everyone got mad. So she was
somewhere else in Texas and I said,
"Listen, if she when she's done with
that, I'll do I'll do a podcast at
midnight. Come on in." I'll go whenever
you want to do it. I'll do it the next
day. I'll do it that night.
>> That would have been one of the wildest
24 hours of your life.
>> I was down to do that and I was going to
release them both at the exact same
time.
>> Unreal.
>> That was the idea.
>> But she wasn't willing to do it. They
even gave me a bunch of things. This is
also that they didn't tell the truth
about. There was a bunch of things that
they said she didn't want to talk about.
And I said fine. She didn't want to talk
about her record for prosecuting
marijuana possession in in California
and then for using those people that
were supposed to get released past the
date that they were released to fight
wildfires. She didn't want to talk about
that. Fine. And then there was one other
one. I forget what the other one was
about that they didn't want to talk
about. And then they came back and said
they did want to talk about marijuana
legalization. Oh, immigration. They were
not so keen on talking about
immigration. Maybe it wasn't
immigration. Was it immigration, Jamie?
Do you remember?
>> I don't remember what the other one was,
but I was like, "Fine. I'll ask her
about cooking. I don't give a [ __ ]
Like, let's talk. Like, I just want to
sit down across and find out who you
are. We'll figure it out. We'll figure
it out. I'll ask you if you believe in
Jesus. We'll figure it out. Do you
believe in UFOs? Like, what do you
think? Well, you could release the
files. Like, I'll find out who you are.
Let's go." You know, maybe I like you.
Maybe no one's had a chance to see you
for this way. I mean, you can laugh and
joke around and be like a real person
instead of like being a person with
sound bites because you can relax cuz
you know there's no time constraint. Who
[ __ ] knows? But we didn't get to find
out. So to say that like you're blaming
podcast on her not getting elected. How
about the fact that you spent 1.4
billion [ __ ] dollars and you put
someone in without a primary and you you
blew all this money and it and you still
lost. Like you guys [ __ ] it up. You
[ __ ] it up. You had all this momentum
when she had that one speech. It's like,
"Say it to my face." They were like,
"YEAH." [groaning]
LIKE LIKE THEY HAD IT. If she never did
another [ __ ] speech and never did a
podcast, never did anything and only did
pre-prepared like monologues like that.
>> Game over.
>> Game over. Game over. Game over. She's
younger. She's got more energy. She's
like a new fresh thing. Let's go.
How much do you think the uh that run of
podcast for Trump did move the needle?
Have you got any idea?
>> It did a lot. I think it did. I think it
the one [sighs]
the one with Theo Vaughn I think moved
the needle first and then the one with
me I think you got to see him [ __ ]
around a little and relax and and talk
about things and you got to see a human
being instead of like a a cartoon.
>> But you only got to see one side of the
election do that. You didn't get to see.
>> Yeah, you could. That could have
happened with her, too. Like, I'm not a
hard interview, man. I'm not I I don't
want to get in arguments with people.
I'd like to get in discussions with
people. I'm not into being insulting.
I'm not into being shitty. I'm not I'm
not into doing that. I'm just I just
wanted to talk. Like, if you want to run
the president, you you want to be the
commander-in-chief of the greatest army
the world's ever known. Like, let's just
have a conversation. I don't think
that's that hard to do. And if you can't
do that, like, well, what are you
hiding? Who are you? I think it was a
lot of her people that didn't want her
to do it. First of all, there was a lot
of people that are like super woke and
just didn't want her to and in any way
to be associated with me. And then there
was a lot of people that were really
worried that she was going to say
something that [ __ ] it up or that we
were going to get into something that
she can't defend,
>> you know, cuz there was a lot of things
that that really did like make people go
what? Like when she said she wouldn't
have done anything different than Joe
Biden when she was on the view. I don't
think I'd do anything different. Like
everybody's like, "OH, GREAT. This is
nuts. We're trying to vote for you.
[ __ ] lie to me."
There was definitely that. And then
there was there's some, you know, some
crazy stuff she said, too. Like when she
was vice president saying like, "How
dare we say Merry Christmas?" Like you
you get those clips and you go, "Wait,
what? Who are you? Who are you? Do you
believe that? Do you really believe how
dare we say Merry Christmas?" Or is this
like a crazy thing that you went through
that day? Well, it's wild to think I'm
worried about being too bombastic when
the person I'm going up against is
Donald Trump. [laughter]
>> You know what I mean?
>> Well, some people they they [ __ ] up a
few things and then they're terrified
they're going to [ __ ] up. So, every time
they do an interview, they're like, I
don't want to [ __ ] this up. I want to
[ __ ] this up. And that's when the staff
gets involved. Like, they wanted one
staff in the room. I'm like, [ __ ] no.
No, you can't have staff in the room.
The [ __ ] out of here.
[ __ ] out of here. They also want to know
if it's edited. Like we edit things like
this. No,
>> you got to People have to find out who
the [ __ ] you really are.
>> But that feels scary because there's no
get out of jail free.
>> It's supposed to be scary. You want to
be the president. [laughter]
>> You want to be the president. It's the
scariest thing of all time.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> You got you got to deal with potential
nuclear war. Okay. I think you can sit
down for a conversation.
>> Yeah.
>> It's not even me. Even if it's not me,
sit down with a bunch of other people,
but sit down with people that are going
to ask you real questions. really talk
to you, you know, like I don't know what
happened on the caller daddy podcast,
but I think it was very short and I
don't think they got into anything deep.
Like you got to ask like the immigration
thing was nuts. You have to ask like
what are you doing? Like why do you guys
have an open border? Why are you just
letting all these unvetted people from
third world crimeinfested poor
countries, desperate people, desperate
that want that want to walk to America?
Do you know how crazy that is? And we're
just letting them all in without knowing
how many of them are just trying to make
a better life and how many of them are
drug cartel and how many of them are
terrorists and how many the [ __ ] are you
doing?
>> What are you doing?
>> What's happened with the status of
immigration now? I know that
>> they put the brakes on it. They stopped
like an enormous number of people
crossing the border. Like an enormous
number. I think it's down. Like, what is
it down? Like, how many what is the
percentage of illegal border crossings
down since Trump has been in office?
They could have done it the entire time,
man.
They wanted that border open. They
wanted those people coming in. They
wanted to flood the census. They wanted
to flood those swing states. They wanted
to get people that are here and give
them citizenship. They wanted to get
them on Medicaid. They want to get them
on healthcare. They want to give them
free cell phones. They wanted to make
those people voters and they wanted to
try to just make it like it's
California, like the whole country is
California. Like you can never leave,
you can never escape. It's one party
runs it forever and they run it terribly
and it gets more and more terrible and
they need more and more money to make it
more and more terrible.
>> That's not a great case. [ __ ] me. Well,
I just
>> Well, it's not the case now, but this is
not great either. Okay. January 2025,
Border Patrol recorded 29,000
in the first full month of the
administration. February, that fell to
8,000. About a 71% month-to-month
decline.
So,
all told, what's the percentage of
decline? What's the percentage of
decline based on 2026 versus 2023?
Let's find that out.
20 oh 2025 versus 2023
>> data. Okay, let's see what they say.
What percentage is it down?
>> 88%.
>> 1.8.
>> It's down 88%. You know how crazy that
is? That's crazy.
So they were letting millions of people
in and we didn't know who they are. And
you know the idea is like if you want to
be a kind compassionate person and
immigrants deserve what you have and
okay um but we have to know they're not
murderers folks. Okay. We we can't just
Have you ever been to like the worst
places of the third world? Probably not.
If you did you wouldn't want those
people just like roaming around your
neighborhood when you have to leave your
garage and go to work. You wouldn't want
that because they they're just like,
"Oh, the guy's not here. I'll break into
his house."
>> Well, how much of this is a luxury
belief that the people that are
espousing the things that they're
supporting aren't the ones that are
going to be impacted by it? It's the
same as it's the same as I told you this
last time I was on, there was a house
near where I live in Austin that had a
defund the police sign in the front yard
and a private security sticker on the
front window. [laughter]
>> That's cute. People are cute. Well,
there's a lot of that. It's a lot of
white people. White people are a real
problem.
>> Wow. That's this [laughter]
dude.
>> Privileged white people.
>> Says it started dropping in 2024 because
of a Biden uh asylum change or
something.
>> Yeah, sure it did. Listen, they probably
[clears throat] tried to put the brakes
on it a little bit when they were losing
the election. You know, when they were
getting the polls in, they were running
a little tight. Yeah, for sure. Like
this. Otherwise, they would have done it
in 2023. They're not they're doing it
because of a political reason. They
probably would have opened it right back
up if comma one like we know no one's
illegal on stolen land. Come on in. You
know it's
>> Meanwhile, uh Victoria's Secret is up
300% yearon-year the share price because
of OMIC.
>> I found this out yesterday.
>> What?
>> 300% increase
>> because of Ozmpic.
>> So what the proposed reason for this is
that millions of women have lost so much
weight that their bras have stopped
fitting. And because they're smaller,
they're now going and getting more
seductive underwear. 300%
increase year on year
>> hot little stick figures.
>> That's what's happening, dude. Ompic's a
[ __ ] hell of a drug. Here's another
thing I found out that women are getting
uh bridal dresses fitted, but they're
having to predict where their weight is
going to come in to land. So, some women
are losing up to 50 pounds. They're
losing so much weight between ordering
the dress and the wedding that these
bridal bridal stores are having to get
them to sign waiverss in case they don't
make weight like a fighter. Like if you
don't make weight for your bridal dress,
you go, "Well, we can't give you another
one. You've said that you're going to
lose 50 pounds using GLPs over the next
9 months or 12 months or 18 months or
whatever." And because they're scared
that they're going to end up getting
these refunds, they're having to sign
waiverss. I think the the uh future
implications of OMIC on economy,
consumption, like think about what most
of consumerism is. It's not stuff that
people need. It's like things that
people want. It's like a craving. It's
impulsivity. It's repeated purchase,
>> right?
>> And that's exactly what GLPs act on.
They're not just suppressing appetite.
They're suppressing craving in a lot of
different ways. And it's like, what what
happens to a capitalist system when you
suppress pharmarmacologically suppress
craving? I want this thing. Well, maybe
you don't. Not in quite the same way
because it seems to work on weed. It
seems to work on video games. It seems
to work on a ton of different
behavioral. People don't like wine as
much. Okay. So, it's not just calories.
It's more than that. It's consumerism as
well. I think what happens when you
intervene pharmacologically in people's
uh desire to crave is just
that is the other the other side. So AI
on one side and [ __ ] GLPs on the
other.
>> Well, they say that some people have
different reactions to GLP ones, right?
And some people have a lack of desire
for relationships.
>> Mhm.
>> Which is really creepy. Like you have a
like What is it about
is it taking away pleasure? Is it taking
away excitement? Like what is it taking
away? Like what
what's stimulation that you're getting
by overeing?
What is it dulling in the process that
also stops drug addictions? Like it's
helping people that have addictions and
it's also helping people that are, you
know, that have like impulsive behavior
apparently. I think that's true.
>> Well, the weird one is the side effects
of like relationships. like you don't
>> maybe it's craving again maybe it's the
same thing I I looked at the the study
on that came out on X and people were
talking about it there was some
criticism around whether or not that
particular pathway in the brain works
the way that it would but if if you're
suppressing craving overall that
wouldn't surprise me
>> no
>> if you're making people just want less
>> right I don't want that at all Maher was
arguing with uh Scott Galloway on Real
Time about that Galloway was like big on
GLP1s there's benefits people there's,
you know, I think also the thing is
dosage. Um, this is an issue and this is
an issue that's been brought up by uh
compoundies that there's certain people
that don't need a big ass dose that
you're going to get like depending upon
your body weight, depending upon your
size, you know, that like a 500 lb man
probably needs a different dose than a
135b 5 foot tall woman.
>> Is that not being suggested? I don't
think so.
>> It's not being advised.
>> I I I think I think people are starting
to do it through their various health
healthcare providers and various doctors
who have experience with these things
that are giving people like smaller
doses and less. And then there's the
ratuitide stuff. Am I saying that right?
>> Retatride.
>> Retatride. Retatu. Retatutide. That one
is a weird one because that one allows
you to keep muscle mass. And that's the
big fear that people have is that you're
starving yourself, but you're also
losing losing bone mass and muscle mass.
>> That's because people who don't have
good fitness habits are reducing an
already sub-optimal diet.
>> They're not eating well and now they're
eating less of not well. They're still
not training, which means what happens
because I think about 90% of people that
go on GLPs and then come off them gain
the weight back. Mhm.
>> So it's you
>> you don't change your behavior.
>> You don't change your behavior, but you
lose muscle on the way down
>> and gain fat on the way back up,
>> right?
>> So if you end up back at the same weight
that you were previously, your
compositions was
>> and that's that's really concerning
because you're basically locked in to
use them for the rest of time if if
that's the case if you can't use
something else to fix it. I know that
they were using different things like
they were using IGF-1 along with GLP1s
to mitigate the bone density and muscle
tissue loss. But the reality of having
less calories coming in than coming out
is your body's going to eat itself.
>> I mean, that's what's happening.
>> Which is why you need to do resistance
training.
>> Yeah. You have to you have to lift heavy
weights. Not heavy, but you have to lift
something. So you you develop bone
density. And this is a giant problem
with older people that have never lifted
anything is that their body composition
is just they might look normal, but
they're made out of dough. You know, you
could just punch right through them. And
if they fall down, they're going to get
hurt, man.
>> That's not
>> When people get older, like one of the
main ways that people die is falling.
>> What happens? They hit their head.
>> They hit their heads. They they slip in
the shower. They slip in the bathtub.
They hit their heads. They break a hip.
When you break a hip, man, the odds of
you living more than 10 years reduced
drastically. A lot of it is also because
at the time that you're breaking a hip,
you're probably
>> old already.
>> Yeah. Old already. But there's like real
data that show that once people have
fallen and broken a hip, like that's a
catastrophic injury that you got to
think of all the resources that your
body has to use and employ in order to
heal that. And then there's the
compromise in movement that you're going
to have for a long time.
>> You're going to be able to walk. You're
going to need assistance. You're not
going to have the same vitality. You're
going to be recovering. You're going to
be exhausted.
People with Alzheimer's disease are
substantially higher risk of falling.
Wow. Falls can be fatal, especially if
they can cause a hip fracture, head
injury, or complications from
hospitalizations or immobility. Research
indicated that 60 to 80% of older adults
with Alzheimer's experience a fall, more
than twice the rate in cognitively
normal peers.
There was a late there's a news story
that came out recently, Jamie, about a
woman who survived for eight days in a
bathtub after she fell.
>> Sure.
>> Oh my god.
>> Insane. So had had a tumble and wasn't
found. I don't know what the [ __ ] she
was doing in order to be able to stay
alive. I guess if you're in a bathtub,
you got some water.
>> Yeah. Just peeing in the tub and
drinking the water.
>> Hoping for the best.
>> 82 years old. 9 days actually, it says.
>> Oh my god.
>> Uh she drank water. She managed to
splash up onto her face by turning the
faucet on with her foot.
>> Oh my god.
Oh my god.
>> Nine days in a [ __ ] bathtub.
>> Crazy. How'd she not die of hypothermia?
>> I guess you could heat yourself up.
She's going to run the water.
>> I guess. I mean, is is she that good at
turning the knobs with her feet? She
could [laughter]
she could scald herself to death. What
the [ __ ] man?
>> That in the home rule mountain, North
Carolina.
>> Oh my god, that poor lady. Let's get her
on the podcast.
>> She survived.
>> Get her on the podcast, Jamie, before
Chris does. [laughter]
>> Poor lady. We probably have to go to
her.
>> [ __ ]
>> Probably have to go to the Appalachian.
>> That is insane.
[snorts]
>> [ __ ] man. There's people that get
through some [ __ ]
>> I was looking at the uh the studies of
how long people have stayed awake for
like that. That gets really [ __ ]
gnarly because people go into psychosis.
That's that that Lindsay Clansancy case
thing that's going crazy at the moment.
A lot of that is because of supposedly
uh sleep deprivation her on a lot of
antisycchotics etc etc. But you don't
need to keep people awake for that long
to turn them insane. If you're awake for
a couple of days I think all [ __ ]
hell breaks loose which is why those
backyard ultras just seem so deranged.
Do you think how are you even able to
apply effort to what it is? How are you
able to make decisions about whether you
need food or sleep or rest or to go
harder or to give up? They all have
hallucinations. They all see things that
aren't there. Like Courtney Dwalter, she
won the uh what' she win? The Bigfoot.
Is that what she won?
>> She I think when she
>> when she came on.
>> Yeah. But uh
>> she beat the second place dude by 10
hours or something crazy. [laughter]
Imagine you come in second place and
you're second place by 10 hours.
>> Yes.
>> Cuz maybe half a day.
>> The race is three days long. Three days
of hell. Well, the the crazy thing about
endurance is that as you get longer and
longer, the difference between the sexes
starts to even out. And I think in
water, it evens out even quicker because
women are more buoyant over distances.
Women are better swimmers.
>> Makes sense. I sink like a rock.
>> Well, you don't have the build for
swimming.
>> I'm terrible at it.
>> Yeah. No, you don't have the build. I
recently learned about um it just come
to my mind Rory McDonald's walkout
music. This story where he changed his
number. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
>> And hadn't [laughter] updated the UFC.
>> It's such a great
>> This is I only found this out.
>> Yeah.
>> Were you there at any of those events
when he was walking? I think he came out
to like uh uh MC Hammer [laughter]
>> and people asked him, apparently he got
rumbled because he wanted Nickelback and
they asked him afterwards. They were
like, "Sorry, we couldn't get your
nickel back." And he said, "I didn't ask
for [ __ ] nickel back." They worked it
out and it was just some guy that was a
fan that was deciding to submit songs.
Yeah. on Rory McDonald's behalf.
>> The guy got Rory's old number and Rory
never bothered telling the UFC. And this
guy knew who Rory was and he was just so
jazzed up that he could pick Rory's
walking music and the guy had a good
sense of humor. So he'd pick some whack
songs.
>> DMC, MC Hammer, the DMX, sorry, MC
Hammer.
>> Well, DMX is great. MC Hammer's great. I
mean, some people love those songs.
>> I think Nickelback's got legs as well,
>> bro. Nickelbacks has some good songs.
It's just they're formulaic and people
don't like formulaic songs. There's some
something about them that people think
is too much of a formulaic song. But
like how come you like the Cypress Hill
Rockstar song, but you don't like the
Rockstar song? It's like the same song.
The Nickelback song and Cypress Hill are
the same song.
>> Does it?
>> It's the [laughter] same song.
>> Like
>> it's the same song. It's the same song.
It's the same premise. It's about being
a rockstar. all the crazy [ __ ] that
you're going to do if you I want to be a
rockstar and I want all this cool [ __ ]
Look, the Cypress Hill is a better song.
I'm a big Cypress Hill fan. I if you if
I'm getting to choose.
>> He also starts off with Chino talking
like there's [snorts] not many songs
that have Chino Marino from the Deft
Tones.
>> That's true.
>> Speaking.
>> That's true. He's laying out what you
need to do to be a rock star that
there's a lot. But like, okay, we can't
play this for everybody else, but just
for you and me.
>> Which one? We're gonna We'll start off
with Nickelback. Start off with
Nickelback.
>> Nickelback rockstar.
>> So [ __ ] happy about this. There's a
conspiracy theory that Nickelback got
taken down to demoralize America after
9/11.
>> That's hilarious.
>> Canadian.
>> Well, but it was American [laughter]
American like uh uh thrust forward into
the world. That kind of freedom rock.
Well,
>> there were always a punch line.
>> Allow me to get you down the rabbit
hole.
>> The limp biscuit Woodstock one is a fun
one.
that. Oh, hold on. Let me It's trying to
load.
>> So, [snorts] we'll listen to the
Nickelback Rockstar song first. Here we
go. Go to Cypress Hill. [laughter]
>> It's the same song.
>> It's the same song.
>> Disrespectful. [laughter]
>> No, I love Cypress, bro. B-roll is my
boy. I love that dude. They're the [ __ ]
I [ __ ] love these guys.
>> A lot of uh
>> I forgot how hard that song was.
>> It's It's a way better song. It's a way
better song. You know, you one of the
dopest covers ever. Rage Against the
Machine covered Pistol Grip Pump. Have
you ever heard that? Okay, while we're
doing this, since nobody can listen to
this,
>> just throw up this. This is one of my
favorite Cypress Hill covers where Rage
Against Machine covered Cypress Hill.
It's [ __ ] fantastic.
It's [ __ ] fantastic. It's better than
the original. That goes hard.
>> I'd never heard that.
>> That goes hard.
>> That's so [ __ ]
>> That's one of the dopest covers ever.
There is a What do we Jamie's gonna
>> It's like they had an assignment. It's
like Cypress Hill and Nickelback had an
assignment. I want you to write a song
about how dope it is to be a rock star.
You want to be a rockstar. You want all
this cool [ __ ] right? But Cypress Hill
took it from the position of like all
all you're going to suffer, all you're
going to lose, you want this, you don't
know how hard it is. And Nickelback is
like, "Hey, hey, I want to be a rockar."
It's fluffy.
>> It's a little fluffy. Yeah. But it's
kind of like an assignment.
>> It is interesting trying to warm people
off of something that everybody thinks
they want. There's this uh study that
was done on when people enter airplanes
and they walk through business class,
economy walks through business class,
there's an eight times increase in
passenger rage incidents.
So it's a reminder of your place in the
status hierarchy.
>> Yeah. And I think it becomes very
difficult when trying to warm people off
of like the rich person telling you that
money won't fix your problems or the
famous person telling you that status
isn't going to change your self worth or
the beautiful person telling you that
looks aren't going to actually make you
feel more valuable in the world. A lot
of the time when when people hear that
it sounds like a a luxury belief. It
sounds like someone trying pulling the
ladder up after they've managed to
achieve it. And that's why I don't know
the the rockstar that reminds you why
it's so cool and this is what you could
get.
Rolling Stone ranked Rockstar at number
100 in their list of the hundred best
songs of 2007. But
>> but Buzzfeed listed it as number two as
one of the 30 worst songs ever written.
>> H
>> is it really though? I think they're
unjustly criticized Nickelback. They're
not that bad.
>> They're coming back around now. They're
coming back.
>> Nostalgia is bringing them back for
sure.
>> Yeah,
>> they're not that bad.
>> Do you know why people like had an issue
with them, I guess, back in the day? No.
>> Well, so I mean, this was happening when
I was in audio school, so that was like
when YouTube started, you know, uh,
Napster was very big and people were
discovering them. It's I mean it's a
little bit of opinion based but there
was a video that came out that went very
viral and that played one Nickelback
song in the left speaker and one in the
right speaker
>> and they lined up very on the like every
uh chord change was kind of like at the
same time the verses change at the same
time.
Yeah. It was very formulaic. So people
just sort of like
>> clown them for being too formulaic.
>> Yeah, I get that. engineers would even
say that they didn't like that because
they were recording what they call in
the box, which would mean they were
recording everything uh very dry and
then changing all of the effects after
the fact. So like nothing that they were
playing was like live necessarily. And
so some people had a problem with that.
>> I get it. That said,
>> they're not the stones, but
>> they're not the Stones.
>> White people music.
>> They're not Pink Floyd, you know. I get
it.
>> It's white people music. It's
98 IQ max. [laughter]
>> You can't say that. You can't say that.
>> Yeah, I just did.
>> Look, I uh
>> a lot of that's a good percentage of the
population, son.
>> That's Look, I I can listen to some 98
IQ music. I I like me some of that.
>> What do you think? I mean, max I'm
saying max
>> other people like it's okay. You know,
you can have a high IQ and go that's all
right. But you're like Nickelback.
>> Wow. What is high IQ music? Pink Floyd
for sure. Well, jazz I don't know. You
know, jazz is interesting because I know
a couple dumb people that love jazz.
>> Um, I mean, a lot of brilliant people
love jazz also. Tulle Tool's very high
IQ music. If if you're into like metal,
probably a little disturbed. You're a
little disturbed. You're a little mad at
your parents.
>> Eric Weinstein brought up the Polifia.
>> I [ __ ] love Polifia. Tim Henson
rules, dude.
>> That's I don't you have to be thinking a
lot to even like
>> It's not passive listening. Right.
>> Is not passive listening.
>> Um, God, there's a lot of great bands,
man.
>> But I don't know what's high IQ music in
that way. Like that's popular as well.
>> I'm being silly, obviously.
>> But I was trying to think about what
that would be if it Beethoven, something
more refined.
>> I don't know. To
>> to me, that's the most fascinating music
is music when there was no recordings. I
am fascinated by the fact that these
people wrote down music on paper so that
other people could replicate it and
that's how they passed on these amazing
songs that people still play in concerts
today. There was no ability to record.
>> Well, think about what stories would
have been like before we had the written
word. There's a, you know, there's a lot
of really popular mag musicians, rather
not magicians, um, musicians who, uh,
don't know how to read music.
>> They don't have to.
>> I can just draw them out on my digital
workspace on my laptop.
>> Yeah. They know how to play an
instrument. They know what the sounds it
makes. I don't have to see those [ __ ]
[ __ ] lines. [laughter]
[ __ ] is that?
>> Yeah. Classically trained. Yeah. I mean,
everybody loved the idea of being a
savant renaissance guy sort of outside
of the system coming in and and breaking
the rules in that way. I wonder how
often that happens at the highest level.
Like
>> at the highest level, it's Hrix. Because
Hrix played a guitar upside down,
left-handed.
>> Why? Cuz he was left-handed. So, he
played a right-handed guitar upside
down. You ever see the way he played
guitar? I don't know jack [ __ ] about
playing guitar, by the way. This is
explained to me. I think Weinstein was
the first person to explain it to me,
>> but uh pull up Hendrick's playing the
guitar.
>> He would play it upside down
>> because it was, you know, not built for
him and it didn't matter. He self-taught
and to this day widely regarded as the
greatest guitarist of all time and the
most influential guitarist guitarist by
far.
>> The most like he was he was a freak.
Like when he came along, I mean Eric
Clapton famously said that he made him
want to quit.
That's That guitar is upside down, dog.
[laughter]
>> Jesus. I didn't know that.
>> Yeah. I mean, I don't know if all of his
guitars were upside down or, you know,
some some of them were actual
left-handed guitars,
>> but I think he played upside down.
>> Hrix was left-handed, but typically used
readily available right-handed
stratcasters. He reversed the
instrument. This put the headstock
controls, bridge angle, and pickup
orientation in unusual positions
relative to a conventional left-handed
guitar. Isn't that wild?
>> Yeah.
>> Fender, look at this. Fender's um
Hendrickk signature stratcaster
recreates some of these visual and
functional details, including a reverse
headstock and reverse slant bridge
pickup. Imagine like such a
>> still turned around.
>> No, I mean I think they did it his way.
>> Wow. I think they replicated it his way
cuz like if you're a [ __ ] a guitar
nut and you love Hendricks like I want
to like why does this guitar [ __ ]
This guitar's backwards. Like Hendrickx
doesn't play it like this. I'd want to
learn on a Hendrickx guitar. [ __ ] yeah.
>> Yeah. Yeah. I uh I know I I've been
thinking a lot about like how we assume
that wisdom compounds over time. So I
guess not too dissimilar to that. We
have this uh epistemic privilege that we
give to a future version of ourselves,
right? So we assume that us now knows
more than us in the past or that us in
the future will know more than us now
that sort of progress goes in that way.
But for some things like matters of
emotion or important life lessons
especially things around pain I don't
think that that's true. So for instance
you could imagine that you're in a
relationship with somebody and it's
really painful. It's really
uncomfortable and after six months you
bump into them again and you can't quite
remember the sleepless nights and the
way that things felt awkward and the
pain in the same way as you used to and
you start think well maybe I should
maybe I should get back with them maybe
maybe that's maybe it wasn't so bad or
uh the guy that works in a very
aggressive job highowered highpaced job
and he's burned out and he can't sleep
and a year later he misses the status he
misses the acclaim he misses the
accolades he misses the camaraderie of
working in that organization and he
thinks, "Well, maybe I could get back.
Maybe I could start again at a
competitor. Maybe I could do that
again." Or someone that's been addicted
to alcohol and after they've been sober
for a couple of years, they think, "Huh,
maybe I should uh maybe I should run
that back. Maybe it wasn't that big of a
deal. Maybe I can do it again." So,
there's this sort of fading affect bias,
which is this idea from psychology that
says bad memories fade with time, but
good memories don't quite the same way.
And it's good because it protects us
from being pinned underneath trauma that
happened in the past. you know, you're
not still so worried about your first
rejection from a girl in the same way as
you might have been shortly after that.
So, uh, bad memories plus time can equal
comedy, but good memories plus time
doesn't usually equal tragedy is kind of
a way to think about it. That's great.
It's like a psychological immune system.
>> Got it.
>> We distance ourselves from things. We
minimize them, and it's a a really
fundamental part of the way that we deal
with pain and difficulty in life. One of
the problems is it causes us to forget
the receipts of why we did the hard work
in the first place. So if you think
about why you worked so hard to get
yourself off of the alcohol, that was
because of the pain that you felt at the
time. But the pain that you felt at the
time evaporates the further that you are
away from it, which is the reason that
you actually made all of that work and
put yourself through that process to
improve your life. So you could imagine
that um healing gets rid of the
justification that made the healing
necessary. So it's just this strange
inversion that we always assume us in
the future is going to be better
educated than us now,
>> right?
>> We know more. Like that's the way that
it works. Like yeah, of course I I've
accumulated more experience. I know
more. I'm closer to the future version
of me, which means that it's more
recent. But in some things, especially
matters of pain, discomfort,
emotionality,
being in the future actually means being
further away from the evidence. And I
often think about this when you see
people that kind of seem to loop
themselves back into bad situations.
Someone that keeps on getting back into
a bad relationship. Someone that keeps
on getting back into a bad relationship
with substances or a job or they just
keep on they seem to be stuck. And I
don't think it's that they're not
moving. I think it's that they're sort
of looping back. They're forgetting the
justification for why they needed to
stop doing this thing. Yeah. This idea
that uh healing destroys its receipts
and this fading affect bias being kind
of the mechanism that works on it. I
found it pretty fascinating when
thinking about observing my friends
lives.
>> That is fascinating. But I think there's
also an element of people finding
comfort in familiar patterns. And
sometimes those familiar patterns are
just failure. They find comfort in
failure. They find comfort in falling
off the wagon. It's too difficult. The
stress of not drinking is so strong.
It's so much they can't handle it. Just
give me a [ __ ] drink. Jesus Christ.
You know, there's a lot of people that
just the pressure of success and not
[ __ ] up is so scary and so daunting
and just maintaining that they fall into
these self-destructive patterns.
>> Why do you think that's the case?
>> I don't know. You'd have to talk to a
psychologist, but it seems to be a
reoccurring pattern with people seeking
comfort in in familiar patterns that are
failure patterns that like maybe it
takes pressure off of them to succeed.
Because for some people, the idea of
succeeding, the idea of getting it's
like it's so overwhelming. It's it
scares them. It it gives them anxiety.
It [ __ ] them up all the time. And when
they start doing well, hey, 333 days
sober and you start saying things like
that and then next thing you just pops
into your head, I want a [ __ ] Marbor
and I want a beer and I want to go to
the bar and see my friends and you just
want to go.
>> Well, that feels like comfort, right? I
suppose there is a a curse with
competence. It's it's interesting when
you see people that are kind of down on
their luck and it makes sense that maybe
they might hit the bottle or they might
uh rely on bad suboptimal habits, but
when someone's really competent and you
keep on seeing them fall back, that's
what's particularly interesting. Oh,
look, you've got something else. You
have an alternative here.
>> That's what's really interesting to me.
But I think that um if you're the sort
of person that's good at things
>> and stuff typically goes well,
>> success doesn't become a reason for
celebration. It's the minimum level of
acceptable performance,
>> right? It's a curse of competence.
>> Success itself is what you have to aim
for. And anything less than success
would be a failure and success itself is
nothing more than acceptable.
>> Right?
>> That creates a a really perverse
incentive which is I can only not lose.
I can't ever win. It's this sort of
debt. you wake up every single day
behind and only if you dominate the day
perfectly do you get yourself back up to
the minimum level of acceptable
performance which is perfection and I
think the perfectionism is kind of on
the rise at the moment. There's a bunch
of studies. I've had a few guests on the
show talking about it and that is
>> how relatively what do you mean by it's
on the rise
>> perfectionism
>> versus uh the I mean the the studies
that have been done on it looking at
perfectionism as a personality trait.
There's a few different types of
perfectionism. There's personal
perfectionism. I must be perfect and
there's other perfectionism as well that
people around me must be perfect too.
And that can be particular. But
>> how are they measuring the effect of
perfectionism? like how are they
measuring how people enacted in their
lives?
>> It's on the rise.
>> It's a psychological scale. So they can
have a a survey survey questions things
like um if I do not do if I don't
succeed that means I am a failure. I
must ensure that everything is
controlled. So there's a a criteria list
>> right? But who are they asking? You know
I mean depending upon who you're asking
you're going to get a higher version a
higher number. you know, if you're
asking people in West Virginia and
trailer parks versus someone who's
working on Wall Street, you know what I
mean? You're going to get different.
It's like, what's the sample size?
>> Well, I'd be I'd like to think that
they're doing it representatively, but
you might be right. There might not be.
Uh, but anyway, I just certainly from
what I can see, this desire that people
have to I'm in a capitalist society,
meritocracy, if I can make myself more
important, more successful, that means
I'm going to get accolade. Please,
please, please. And this goes back to
the poverty parade thing, right? If
you're walking through business class to
get to economy, you're reminded
>> you're reminded of your place within the
hierarchy. There's also some really
interesting data around if you're in a
high income inequality area, uh,
self-objectification by selfies from
women on Instagram goes up.
>> And this is a huge study by Candace
Blake over in Australia. And they did a
correlation. It might have been on
Twitter rather than on Instagram. And
they looked at geoloccating images,
ranked them based on
self-objectification, and then looked at
the wealth inequality in that local
area. Higher wealth inequality, more
self-objectification.
>> Which side is doing the
self-objectification?
>> Women, but women that are poorer or
women that are wealthier,
>> all women.
>> All women.
>> All women in that area because, and the
proposed mechanism is you can see not
just how high you could climb, look at
the inequality on the top end, but how
low you could potentially fall. Oh, to
on the bottom
>> gets you motivated.
>> Gets you motivated. Yeah. And and that
is the same thing. It's I think it's a
similar sort of mechanism. If you see
high inequality, perfectionism is
another escape hatch. That's another
ejector seat that you can pull. If
you're not going to use uh your assets
to get you access, maybe you could just
do it yourself. You could bootstrap it
yourself to lift yourself off the launch
pad. And yeah, the perfectionism thing
is kind of fascinating to me because I
think it's it means that people never
really get to escape from the standards
that they set. And if you're good at
stuff, it becomes even harder because
the minimum level of acceptable
performance is just perfection, right?
[snorts]
Not sure how I feel about that. First of
all, I think a lot of that has got to be
motivated by social media. That's a big
part of it because now you're getting to
see what everybody has, what everybody's
doing. see what they look like, see
their house, see their car, see their
this, see all these things, these
objects of desire. So that I think
accelerates people's desires and wants
and then you also get unrealistic beauty
expectations from the internet, uh,
particularly social media apps that use
filters, right? You're getting a very
distorted perception of what people look
like. And so that probably accelerates
the amount of plastic surgery women get
and amount amount of things that people
are willing to do. Probably the amount
of steroids that young men do,
>> you know, all that stuff. Um, but
you know, the idea of perfectionism,
like what are we talking about? If
you're talking about pursuit of an in
excellence of a sport or of some sort of
a discipline, some sort of a thing you
do, people have always done that.
There's always been like outliers who
are trying to be the very best ever at
something,
>> you know, that's always going to be the
case. And we celebrate that because when
you know there's a guy like Larry Bird
that keeps hitting those three-pointers,
every's like [ __ ] Remember when I was a
kid, people would throw garbage into the
um little garbage baskets at school and
they would go Larry Bird, [laughter] you
know, like they wanted to be like Larry.
They wanted to be like Michael Jordan.
They wanted to be like Mike Tyson.
People celebrate the outliers. They
celebrate these excellent people that
stand above and beyond.
>> There is some article about it. I don't
know how they figured it out yet, but
>> interesting.
>> There's a says it's been growing since
1989.
>> This is hilarious. Perfectionism is a
public health risk. It's associated with
increased depression and anxiety.
Yeah. Yeah. You're going to be depressed
and anxious if you're trying to achieve
perfection. But I don't know if that's
bad. like it's really about whether or
not you can manage your [ __ ] mind.
>> That's interesting there. So there's uh
perfectionism has increased in different
rates. Perfectionistic concerns, fear of
failure, indecisiveness, and fear of
being negatively judged by others
increase much faster than
perfectionistic strivings, the
motivation to set extremely high
standards and work hard to achieve them.
So that's I guess maybe the difference
between what you're thinking about which
is kind of positive perfectionism
wanting to set a goal and chase after it
as opposed to fear of failure,
indecisiveness, and fear of being judged
negatively by others.
>> Yeah, that's the big one, right? The
fear of being judged by others is a real
fear because of social media. Go back.
Stop. Stop. But when they they say it
increased much faster than perfectionist
strivings. So the problem with the
perfectionist strivings is then you have
to have delayed gratification. You have
to have the ability to say I don't want
to do this today but I want this in the
future. So I'm going to do this today so
that in the future I can succeed. That's
abstract. That's hard for a lot of
people to grasp if they've never gone
through a process before. If they've
never trusted a process of improvement.
This is one of the reasons why sports
are so important for young people or any
kind of pursuit like learning how to
play guitar or learning learning
anything that's difficult to learn
because you realize there's a process.
You realize you start off sucky and then
you get better over time. But if you're
never doing anything like that, if
you're just existing and you've never
been challenged to try to improve at
something that's very difficult, you
don't understand the striving, the
perfectionist striving. And even that
term, I don't like that term. Excellence
is a better term. You're striving for
excellence. Perfection is not possible
in anything. There's no there's nothing
perfect that no matter what you do,
there's always going to be a failure.
There's it's a human error. There's
always going to be you you might get to
like here's a perfect example. In uh
games of pool, like in professional pool
matches, the rarest of rare matches is a
match where a guy runs out the entire
set. That means like say if you and I
are playing a race to 10, okay, which
means the first guy to be make 10 games
in a row. If you're really good, you
might break and have an open run on the
first rack and break and have an open
run on the second rack and break it up.
You might run 10 racks in a row. It's
been done. Earl Strickland did it for a
million dollars.
>> He won a million dollars at a tournament
and they wind up [ __ ] him. But Earl
Stricken's like one of the greatest pool
players of all time. But they they had a
million dollar uh insurance policy. If
someone could run 10 racks to make the
tournament more exciting, 10 racks in a
row, they won a million dollars. Well,
Earl Strickland was is a mad genius. And
like he's one of the greatest players of
all time. And he knew there was a
million dollars in the lines. This
[ __ ] came focused and he broke
and ran a 10 pack and they didn't want
to pay him. Like this is [ __ ] And
but it was on film. Whole thing's crazy.
But that's a thousand. Nobody does that.
And if you do it, you're going to fall
apart in the next game. You You'll have
a never another match like the next day.
You're never going to be perfect. You're
always going to miss. It's just humans.
You There's going to be error. You know,
>> Michael Jordan, as good as he was,
didn't make every basketball. You know,
Mike Tyson lost fights. You're you're a
human. There's no perfection, but there
is
>> excellence. And that's what people are
pursuing really. I don't like that term,
>> perfectionism. I I think what's maybe
useful about the term is that it uh
because that is the term it belies the
futility of pursuing it. It's like in in
in containing it, it kind of mocks the
the pursuit of it itself.
>> Exactly. Because it look it is
ridiculous when you're talking about
appearance. It's ridiculous when you
talk about frivolous things that are
meaningless.
>> But when you're talking about Magnus
Walker playing ch or Magnus Carlson
playing chess, that's that means
something. Like that's a crazy thing
that that guy's able to do. That pursuit
of extreme excellence is celebrated.
When Messi plays soccer, you know, when
when when someone is an outlier, like we
love that. So this idea that you
shouldn't love the most excellent of
excellent people that are the most
celebrated in society. And there's a
problem with people chasing excellence.
Like,
>> okay, look, if if you're saying there's
a problem with people chasing perfect
appearances because then you get
dysmorphia and you start looking at
yourself all weird and then you get
anorexia or you you getting your lips
done, you don't know they're too big.
That Yeah, that's [ __ ] up. That
pursuit of perfection is insane. The the
perfection of But we're not we're not
capable of achieving perfection. We are
capable of achieving excellence. So, if
you call it perfection, it sounds like
it's a problem. If you call it
excellence,
>> sounds like a pursuit.
>> Yeah.
Uh Federra, really interesting stat that
I found out about him. He won maybe
about 80 85% of the matches that he
played across his entire career.
>> Crazy.
>> But he only won about 56% of the points.
That's the edge. And you have to be a
madman to work hard enough to beat
everybody 85% of the time. You have to
be a mad man. How many [ __ ] people
are playing tennis? How many freak
athletes are out there [ __ ] whacking
balls all day doing sprints, lifting
weights?
>> Nearly 50% of the points that you
played.
>> Crazy.
>> I [ __ ] love that stat. Yeah, there's
this this great line that the curse of
discipline is that every day looks the
same and the curse of indiscipline is
that every year looks the same.
>> Oo, I like that.
>> And I've been thinking about the
relationship between uh discipline,
motivation, and obsession. So, I think
obsession is kind of very misunderstood.
It's feared by a lot of people, even the
people that have got it. Sometimes
>> it's also dismissed by people that wish
they had it and they don't have it and
they mock it.
>> How so?
>> Because they they look at someone who's
like obsessed with doing something and
like he's [ __ ] lost his whole life
playing that stupid game or he's given
up his whole life for his music. Like
what's the point?
>> Like there's a lot of people that want
to dismiss the outliers. Maybe they
don't like the way they stack up against
them.
>> If someone's like the best at something,
you watch some guy that can just do this
thing that no one else can do the way he
does it. Like there's a bunch of people
that celebrate it for sure, but there's
always going to be a bunch of people
that think there's something wrong with
it.
>> Being threatened by obsession is kind of
interesting. So, everybody wants to I I
think it's to do with your relationship
with friction. So, discipline is
friction accepted. It's like I will
force myself to do the thing regardless
of how hard it is. Motivation would be
friction removed which is like I want to
do the thing
>> and then obsession is friction inverted
like I can't not do the thing. I'm
pulled toward it. It's harder for me to
not train than it is for me to train.
It's harder for me to not play guitar
than it is for me to play guitar.
>> So it's all about that relationship. And
this is why I think people get so
confused because from the outside
obsession can look a lot like someone
just using a [ __ ] ton of discipline,
just gritting their teeth and getting
through it. What you don't realize from
the inside they have no choice,
>> right?
>> They have no choice but to do it. All
that they want, they go to sleep
thinking about it. They wake up thinking
about it. Yeah. They have no
>> there is no way that they can stop
themselves from doing this thing. And
this is why it's dangerous. obsession
gets a bad rap because if it's pointed
toward politics or porn or your ex
>> or video games
>> or video games or weed or you know
whatever
>> that becomes very dangerous. But if you
and this is why
>> some people and I'm going to guess that
this is you, it's certainly me. Some
people have problem solving brains.
They're always kind of rotating a little
Rubik's cube in their mind thinking how
can I this is an interesting challenge
for me to face and how could I change
this thing? What how would I fix this
thing? just playing with ideas or trying
to get better at something, they're
always working on something.
Someone that's got a problem-solving
brain but doesn't have any good problems
to solve will just chew themselves up.
They will eat themselves inside out
because that is when you get obsessed
with stuff that you shouldn't do. That
is when you get obsessed with porn or
politics or your toxic ex or that person
that you think that's that uh cut you
off in traffic and that's when you chase
after them. That is the kind of problem
solving brain without a good problem to
solve. M
>> and I think a lot of people feel a
degree of shame or at the very least
like uh they're marionetted by this
problem solving brain by the speed of
what they're going through. The fact
that they're always turning something
they can't really get it to switch off.
And I think a much easier solution than
trying to stop yourself from solving
problems is to just give yourself better
problems to solve. It's to start a
business. It's to get a pursuit that you
really care about,
>> right? But this sounds very simplistic
though. We're talking about like a
legitimate mental health issue with a
lot of people that don't have the
awareness to stop a pattern,
>> you know? Like there's a lot of people
that need a friend and they don't have
any friends and so they need a
counselor. They need someone. They need
someone who can talk to them about what
they're doing and give them some tools
as to how to navigate out of it because
there's a lot of people that are just
stuck in that rut.
>> I agree.
>> And they could be really good. Like
there's people that are wasting their
life gambling that could be really good
at something else. They could be really
good
>> if you applied that effort, that
dedication, that obsession to something.
I I completely agree. I think the funny
thing for anyone that's on the right
side of their obsession, they're
applying it to something that's
positive. Kind of a nice situation to
realize, hey, you weren't that far away
from being that guy on the street.
>> Right. Right. If you if you're honest
>> with yourself, your level of obsession
could have directed you toward that that
destruction, that distraction, that
>> that like self emulation. Uh you you're
not that far away from it. It's the same
fuel. It's the same fuel source.
>> Yeah. It's just about directing it in a
good way and figuring out a way that's
going to be most beneficial to you and
the people around you. And some people
just aren't good at that problem
solving.
>> Yeah. And I think you're right to point
to what you do in childhood sport is
just hey if you work hard incrementally
at these component skills there is an
outcome in terms of performance that
will happen in future.
>> Yeah.
>> These small amounts these little efforts
will contribute to what you do when you
get there. There's delayed gratification
step by step by step you work and it's
just it kind of lays the physics of the
system.
>> Yes.
>> Right. Okay. And then you get into
adulthood and you go, well, I understand
like delaying gratification is
important. I can win the marshmallow
test today, which means I can get
something that I want in future. I need
to think over a longer time horizon.
Typically, I can use my obs like another
thing that's kind of fascinating about
the obsession piece is when you look at
someone like uh Joo as a good example,
>> what looks like obsession now or sorry,
what looks like discipline is probably
just who he is. the a.m. thing, the
kettle bell swings, the training.
>> At one point, he was obsessed by that.
That was probably what he thought about
most. I know he was when he was still in
the SEALs. Like, that was what he
wanted. He wanted you to get as big and
as jacked and as lethal as possible. I
don't think that's quite his priority in
the same way now. But what you see if
you allow yourself to have positive
obsessions and for them to cool over
time, you basically start to build up
these layers of a pyramid, which is
well, I'm not obsessed by training, but
I used to when I was in my 20s, and now
my training obsession is just who I am.
It's cooled like uh like lava's sort of
cooled into the core of this planet, and
it's now who I've become. So, my
training is just part of my life. And
then, okay, what was the net? Well, I
started to learn. I wanted to um tell
the truth. I wanted to be an an
upstanding person. So, I started to
maybe go to therapy or I I I worked on
my mental health a little bit more. And
okay, that's now cool. That was an
obsession for a while. And now I've
moved on to the next thing. And I really
wanted to build this skill. I wanted to
become a good father. So, I worked out
how I could deal with my emotions when
interacting with my kids. And now I've
got that skill. over time serial
obsessives I think whether it's in
business or in training or in personal
development what you end up with is this
unbelievably
like well-rounded person but if you
don't allow yourself to wear that
obsession for a while and a lot of the
time when people get obsessed with stuff
they feel guilty they feel a little
ashamed of it they they want to push
back against it but it's the freest
discipline and motivation you're ever
going to get you're never going to find
>> who feels guilty about being obsessed
about things
>> I think sometimes people do
>> about good things.
>> The mockery of your friends around you.
Oh, dude. Going go and play guitar
again. Are we? Oh, going to go. Oh, you
little music thing. Is that going well,
>> man? Anybody who falls victim to that,
you deserve it
>> because
>> that's so silly, isn't it?
>> You need to stand up for what it is that
you want.
>> I don't All the times in my life when
I've been obsessed by things, if anybody
like tried to mock me being obsessed by
it, I'd be like, "Fuck you. Who cares
what you think?" I could couldn't have
cared less. That's interesting. I don't
know whether it's a British the mockery
the tall poppy thing is a huge part of
British culture. If you diverge from the
normal path
>> yes
>> it is you know we have the same number
of universities in the top 10 globally
>> but we produce 20% of the entrepreneurs
compared with America. And I think that
a lot of that is
>> attitude.
It's it's not [ __ ] Cambridge, Kings,
London, Oxford. Like, these aren't rinky
dink organizations. They attract
unbelievable talent.
>> Why is it that we're not producing the
same kind of
orthogonal thinker, self-starter,
sovereign, high agency people that you
might get out of America? And I think a
lot of it is
>> it's just not as encouraged. It's not.
And it's a shame. And I wish that I
could like gift some of the enthusiasm
back to the UK. Americans basically have
permanent firstline cocaine energy.
[laughter]
>> So enthusiastic about everything.
>> Yeah.
>> And
>> some some Americans.
>> That's true. But I just I wish I could
get that back. I wish I could push that
back toward the UK. It's something that
would make a massive difference.
>> Yeah, sure. [sighs] I'm sure it would.
But it's very difficult to change the
way a whole country thinks. Like the
attitude of the country. This is the
attitude of this country is you could
make it here. Like you could everybody
feels like they're just a few good deals
away from being rich.
>> Just a they're a millionaire that just
hasn't made it yet. Like that's
>> I think it's one of the reasons that the
victimhood culture here has kicked off
more though that in the UK
>> you don't expect to be able to become
much. Like it's very class system still
over there.
>> When you're a kid, you're not told that
you can be anything that you want to be.
If you diverge from the path, one of the
first things that happens is what are
you doing that for? It's a stupid idea.
good in some ways because it keeps your
feet on the ground, but bad in other
ways because it means that you don't go
for it, right? You don't take the big
swings in the same way. In the US, I get
the sense that kids that are told you
can be anything you want to be. The
American dream is still very much alive.
If you work hard, you can raise yourself
up, pick yourself up by your bootstraps,
and become something. Okay.
What happens if you arrive in adulthood
and you're not given that which you felt
you were promised as a kid? Well, that
feels like someone's taken it away from
you. That feels like someone's stolen
your rightful uh your promise. This is
the same reason, interestingly enough,
uh the same reason why Korea, the women
in Korea are some of the most
left-leaning in the world supposedly
that they were given equal access to
education uh over the last few decades.
And that meant that as a quite
patriarchal society, they were
constrained, not not able to access
education in the same way. They finally
get into it. They're emancipated.
They're getting degrees and higher
education at the same rate as the men.
And then they get into the real world
and all of the employment opportunities
haven't caught up. And it's still very
sexist when it comes to the way that
employment and promotions and wages,
there's still a big wage gap there. And
what that means is in the same way as
the American child that was promised all
of this stuff as a kid doesn't get
delivered it when they become an adult.
A lot of the women in Korea it seems
were promised a lot through their
education and then they arrive and the
rug feels like it's being pulled out
from underneath them by a uh work
workforce that is still
>> kind of in the dark in their equivalent
of the dark ages. But this is people
throw their toys out of the pram.
>> Why would they not? I think I I I think
that I deserve this. And yeah, the
victimhood culture in America is I don't
know. It I wish I could take some of the
bits of America and put them in the UK
and some of the bits of the UK and put
them in America and I think we'd end up
that was what it used to be. [ __ ] it,
we'll just bring it back together again.
>> Yeah. I think you're always going to
have people that are dissatisfied with
their station in life. The question is
like, were they equipped with the tools
to create a better life when they were
younger? And whether they were equipped
by their family, or were they equipped
by whatever thing they got into, a sport
they got into when they were young or
some sort of a discipline where they
realize this, it's really important that
kids realize at an early age about a
process of improvement, trusting the
process. That's a common phrase that you
hear when it comes to anything that
you're trying to do that's difficult in
this country. Trust the process. Trust
the process. You hear about that with
coaches like in in MMA fighters. They're
always saying that we got to trust the
process that there's a process of
buildup up to a big fight. There's a
process of improvement to get to your
black belt. There's a process of
improvement as you rise through the
amateur ranks into a professional ranks.
You got to do things the right way and
keep doing them and you're going to get
better. Some people never learn that and
then they get to a point where they
think things should have already
happened and why haven't things happened
for me and then they get angry,
>> you know. And um it's a lot of it is
it's very difficult to find a good
environment. Very difficult to find
like-minded people that that are
empowering and when you're around them
you feel better. You feel motivated. You
feel inspired. That's also hugely
critical for people. It's a like people
want to think I'm a lone wolf. [ __ ] off.
No,
>> that's there's no no one like that.
That's all [ __ ] Those people are
very depressed.
>> Where do you think the trust thing comes
from? Because I I trust.
>> Yeah. Yeah. the trust of the process
that I think a lot of people want.
>> It's people that have done it before.
You you have to learn from people that
have already done it. Like if you're
learning from a wrestling coach, you're
learning from a coach that wrestled.
>> There's no wrestling coaches that didn't
wrestle. Like they all wrestle and that
you learn from them that there's a
process and this is what you're going to
do and this is how we're going to get
better. And trust me, when week three
comes along and you can run this hill a
lot easier than you run it today, you're
going to be thankful for these 5 a.m.
practices.
Yes, sir. You got to trust the process.
And if you have a good coach, the good
coach will show you at every step of the
way as you're improving. You'll hit a
move and it'll say, "You see how smooth
you hit that? You couldn't hit that move
last time."
>> It's so true. It's so true. The the
inability to be able to see your own
progress,
>> to be able to see what you're doing. I
think for a lot of people, goals are
contracts to self-criticize until we
succeed.
>> And that's how people whip themselves
into submission. And that's the problem
with the perfectionism side of things as
opposed to excellence. Right? if you
were to say I am not enough unless I am
perfect as opposed to I am good if I
keep improving. That seems to be one of
the differences between the two. But
yeah, like goals being contracts to
self-criticize until we succeed.
>> That's not what a coach would do. I'm
sure that wasn't when you were teaching
[ __ ] taekwondo and someone for the
first time manages to land this kick or
they win a it was really really close.
you can pick out the elements, but so
many people have got coaches in their
mind that are they're only ever focusing
on the negatives.
>> If you have a good coach and you're in a
sport with a bunch of other people that
are doing well, it's like statistically
proven that your level will be higher
than someone who has a bad coach that's
around other people that aren't as good.
That's just how it always is. The best
athletes always come from the great
programs, you know, whether it's
Oklahoma State University, wrestling or
what, whatever the [ __ ] it is, there's
always like a bunch of different killers
that come from a great environment with
great coaching. People don't have that
in life, right? If you had great
coaching in life and you were surrounded
by a bunch of other [ __ ] division one
all-Americans who are like getting after
it every day, you would be motivated.
But most people aren't. And this is part
of the problem. Most people are
surrounded by equally lost people who
are sad. [snorts] And it's hard to rise
above. It's hard to say, "I don't want
to go to the bar because I'm working on
writing this book and I need to write
this book." Oh, you're going to [ __ ]
write the book and you're going to
ignore your boys? Like, click. You gota
you got to know when to find people that
are productive and healthy and are doing
things similar to what you're doing
things where you're like pursuing
something that you really enjoy and not
just waste your [ __ ] life away
drinking every day like a lot of people
will do.
>> That perspective is hard to come by
though.
>> It is
>> because you need to break out of the
frame that you're in already. This is
the the lonely chapter thing that I'm
kind of obsessed with. You're so
developed that you don't resonate with
your old set of friends,
>> but you're not yet sufficiently
developed that you've built up your new
set of friends. And there's this
temptation to go back to go back to the
old patterns, the old habits, the old
modes of reassurance,
>> just like we were talking about with
drug addicts, falling off the wagon
because it's like it's easier. It's
easier to fail.
>> It is simpler. And I guess what's
interesting
thinking about choosing a new direction
and and having a degree of self
asssurance like living your life by
design as opposed to default is one of
the most important things. But I wonder
whether people that are in a an
environment where they don't have any
good role models, like I didn't grow up
in a particularly like cubrious part of
the UK. It's the most working-class town
in the back end of the northeast of
England. And there weren't that many
people around me when I grew up that
were like the person I wanted to be
like. But there were [ __ ] lots of
people like the person I didn't want to
be like. I didn't want his relationship
with gambling. I didn't want the way
that he kept on cheating on his wife. I
didn't like the fact that he used
alcohol to deal with his emotional
problems. So yeah, would it be nice if
you had the D1 sports coach as your next
door neighbor every morning telling you
that you can we should go for a run
because little Timmy's going for a run
as well. Yeah, that'd be awesome.
>> But if you don't have it and you've got
some people around you that are reverse
role models, you can quite easily you
can make a lot of progress in life by
avoiding pitfalls, not just expediting
success.
>> Definitely
>> by weaving away from the things that you
know that you don't want. The problem is
a lot of those people will try to drag
you down and if you're in close
proximity to them and you have to
interact with them on a regular basis,
it could trip you up. But yeah, a lot of
people get motivated by like if you're
around people that are alcoholics and
you see them ruin their life. Like I
have a friend, his family was alcoholics
and he's never had a drink his whole
life. He was like, I won't touch that
[ __ ] ever. He saw it saw it wreck
people's lives. Never had a desire to
have alcohol.
Um so that was and you know he became
very successful. So he figured out a way
to just avoid all the problems that all
those people had. They motivated him.
But it's better to be motivated by
someone who's doing something you aspire
to
>> as opposed to trying to avoid something
that's going wrong.
>> I [clears throat] think the option that
people have now that was never available
before is you could hear people that you
are um that you admire or that you
aspire to be like what they are. You
could hear them on the internet now.
There's way more access to inspiration
than ever before. You know, when you
have some high achiever who goes on a
podcast and has a conversation about
something that they do and you could
realize how this guy built his company
or built his life or became this amazing
athlete and what they went through.
>> You you can learn from conversations
that you're not in the room with. you
know, you you don't get a chance to hang
out with, you know, David Gogggins or
whatever, but you get a chance to listen
to him talk now where it just wasn't
available before for all the different
outliers like like we were talking about
Larry Bird before. Who the [ __ ] was
Larry Bird listening to? He had to be
listening to the other basketball
players that were playing with him that
were all a bunch of killers. Like that
was the only way he got good.
>> Like he didn't have the internet. He
couldn't just go on YouTube and find
inspirational quotes, you know he could
listen to an Alan Watts lecture and have
a new perspective on life. It was
harder. It's a lot harder. It's a lot
easier now. It's a lot easier now to be
inspired. It's a lot easier now to also
have examples of people that are living
a life that is aligned with what you're
looking for versus what you see around
you all the time. You don't just accept
it anymore. People there's a lot more
people now that are like, I've got to
get the [ __ ] away from these people.
Well, because the alternative is that
you're
>> fortunately like serendipitously just
born into a culture where there's some
people like the person you want to be
like right next to you. Like how many
people that are
>> excellent individuals that are going to
go on to try that have the capacity to
go on to do something incredible are
around other people that are like that
too,
>> right?
>> Not because by design you're an outlier.
So if you're an outlier there's going to
be fewer people like you. being able to
hear people say that. I remember I was
listening to a part a while ago and uh
there was this line on it. I think it
was Mel Robbins that said something like
um all my life I'd always felt like
someone was mad at me. I was like,
"Huh?" I've never heard anybody put it
put it that way before. All my life I'd
ever heard.
>> Did Mel Robin say this?
>> Yeah.
>> I've never listened to her podcast, but
Tim Dylan was making fun of her today
and it was the funniest [ __ ] I've ever
heard in my life. He goes, "She makes
Gary Vee sound like Aristotle."
[laughter]
>> Tim Dylan is the best. He's the best.
>> Have you seen Gary Ve's talking about V
friends recently? Did you see this,
Jamie? Have a little This
>> I don't want to watch this.
>> Okay.
>> Don't make me do this.
>> Okay. All right. Well, you made me watch
a leg kick thing.
>> He's a nice guy.
>> Yeah.
>> Gary's a nice guy. I've had him on the
podcast before.
>> Well, maybe we don't need to learn about
that. Anyway, just my point is
regardless of who it comes from, you can
find inspiration in a variety of places.
>> You certainly can, but there's more now
than ever before. And there's never a
time in human history where you can be
more inspired. You just have to seek it.
But you also have to avoid the tricks.
There's all bunch of things that are
going to trick you and steal your
attention. You got to avoid the
nonsense. Avoid the nonsense on social
media and just find things that your
time is very valuable. And the same
feeling that you get out of watching a t
like the same dopamine rush that you get
from watching a Tik Tok video that means
nothing, you also get from watching a
YouTube video where you're going to
learn something. It's like it's just as
interesting.
>> Yeah. Talking about the thing, talking
about the thing and doing the thing v
for the same resources. So you need to
allocate yours appropriately.
>> Yeah.
>> Like how many people are just great at
talking about how their plans are going
to go? This is what's going to happen
next. I can't wait. I can't wait for
this new business that's going to go up
and it never happens.
>> Were you around when The Secret was a
big movie and a bunch of people really
believed that they could just sort of
manifest their life? Yes. By thinking
about it?
>> Yes.
>> That was a fascinating time.
>> You know that lady said that the reason
the Boxing Day tsunami happened in
Thailand was because the
>> citizens were giving off bad juju. M
>> this she basically said that they'd
manifested it was like thousands tens of
thousands of people displaced because of
a tsunami that happened on Boxing Day.
>> Imagine believing that.
>> Ah dude the the crazy thing is the
secret the visualization stuff which I'm
sure tons and tons of the athletes that
you've worked with or that you
commentate on so many of them are using
visualization but people forget that you
need to actually go and do the work as
well. You'd think like um God will steer
the boat but you still have to row as
opposed to you can just sit in the boat
and think about it and you'll get rode
there yourself and that's the issue. The
issue is that people want a shortcut and
if you can give them a shortcut
>> Yeah. I think the visualization and the
belief is an element.
>> It's an element. If you can never see
yourself succeeding, you'll probably
[ __ ] it up somehow. But if you can see
yourself succeeding and you have a
direct plan and you also put in the
work, your odds of success are higher.
That's all it is. But the people that
have said that they used the secret to
succeed, they're only the people that
used it and it worked. How many people
used it and it didn't work? Probably a
fuckload more.
>> Survivor shift bias is a hell of a drug.
>> It is a hell of a drug.
>> Yeah. I uh [laughter]
Yeah, it's it's one thing to get what
you want, but it's another thing to want
what's worth getting in life.
>> Well, there's a lot of people believe
that it was like God's will for them to
succeed. I knew God had a p a plan for
me. Okay. Does God have a plan for that
dude who's doing heroin in the corner?
[laughter]
What about the guy that's pissing on
himself on Skid Row? Is that God have a
plan for that guy? Is that's God doesn't
like him. I didn't like him when he was
a baby. I don't like him now. [ __ ] that
guy. Give him fentinel.
>> How do you how do you come to sort of
think about the unfairness of the the
hands that are being dealt there?
Because when I think about that, it does
make me really sad. Makes me sad to
think about how unfortunate some
people's like decks of cards have been.
>> Oh yeah, man. Oh yeah. Yeah. I mean, you
can get born to a pair of junkies. Two
junkies can have sex on Skid Row and
you're born addicted to fentinel right
out of the box and your life is [ __ ]
Versus if you have a child, you're a
great guy, you're educated, you're
interesting, you're intelligent, your
kids going to grow up with a cool dad.
It's like it's like it's not fair. It's
not even remotely fair,
>> you know? and uh we don't do enough to
to [ __ ] mitigate the unfairness. And
I don't mean in terms of like
redistribution of wealth or anything
like that, like making sure there's not
that level of despair and poverty in a
functional society, you know, and the
fact that there's almost no effort, no
real concerted effort to clean up any of
these problems that we have had for
decades upon decades upon decades in our
cities. It's kind of crazy the amount of
money we spend on other things. We could
have fixed that a long time ago.
You know, there's a lot of conspiracies
about that too that they don't want that
because if more people become educated
and more people become ambitious, it's
going to be harder to [ __ ] them over.
It's going to be harder to force them to
pay taxes for an inefficient government
that's stealing and it's too many fraud
and wast
people. You won't be able to keep your
job being an incompetent legislator. You
know, there's a lot of theories about
why schools suck so hard and there's so
little money being put into schools.
When you think about the amount of power
that a teacher has over a child
expos you're working all day, okay,
you're at work, your kid is with another
adult and then a different adult and
then the next hour and a different adult
the next hour and they're shaping their
world view for a solid seven, eight
hours a day, five days a week more than
you. You're working all day, so you come
home like, "What do they teach you in
school?" What? Daddy, they taught me I
could be anything I want. I could be a
girl. Oh god. Daddy, they taught me how
important communism is. What? Ah, [ __ ]
And what are you going to do? You're
going to go to the school and you're
going to yell at the meeting. And what
do they do when that happens? They turn
turn the parents into terrorists. They
say the parents are terrorists.
>> Why? They've called parents terrorists
for showing up at schoolboard meetings
and yelling that they don't want their
kids being taught about sexuality or
they don't want their kids being taught
about this.
For [ __ ] sake. Yeah. So, they've
there's school boards that have tried to
censor parents and have tried to like
label them domestic terrorists for
trying to interrupt meetings and say
that they don't want their children
being taught these ways. And so then
what are your options? You homeschool.
You got I don't have the time. [ __ ]
>> a huge amount of cost. Yeah, I I Dude,
it is it's weird out there, man.
>> The state of the US education system at
the moment seems [ __ ] wild. There was
these studies that came out of Illinois.
Basically, no one in high school could
read at like a [snorts] fourth grade
level. It's [ __ ] insane. I saw a
video of a teacher crying that none of
the students were even remotely
competent.
>> Yeah. What is a state that just because
students were doing so bad, they
completely dropped their standards? Was
it Oregon? I forget what governor, but
like ridiculously dropped their
standards for reading and math.
Yeah, it's not good. I mean, that would
that should be something we're really
concentrating on. It should be a really
important thing in our world that's
discussed every day versus whether or
not men can play in the WNBA.
>> Meanwhile, uh, Penn State had a cocaine
ring at one of the fraternities. Do you
see that?
>> A ring.
>> Cocaine ring. So, there was
>> What do you mean a ring?
>> Like two different fraternities were
>> selling cocaine.
>> Oh, not just selling cocaine. They were
driving to Philadelphia and back in New
York and back to like create a huge
cartel for this massive massive scandal.
The dad of one of the guys that was in
the that was the leader of it is some
attorney dude that was like covering it
up, putting money and drugs in the safe
and the pledges that were pledging to go
into the fraternities were made to cut
and bag the cocaine.
>> That's hilarious.
>> Free labor.
>> What What school was this?
>> Penn State.
>> My god.
>> 14 people arrested, including one of
them that was the dad. This kid's got
like a gazillion charges for it. It's
>> Meanwhile, they're just entrepreneurs.
Look, [laughter]
>> we need to encourage We need to
encourage an entrepreneurial spirit.
>> It's the entrepreneurs in a bad
direction. It's like what we were
talking about before obsession in the
wrong direction.
>> Why Penn State's great for wrestling,
right? Why didn't you go and do
wrestling?
>> Or imagine if they put all that effort
into a legitimate business.
>> Yeah.
>> They'd probably getting out of college
already wealthy.
>> Speaking of that, did you see uh Ben
Ascrin return to wrestling one year
after his
>> Yes, dude.
>> Crazy.
>> I had him on the pod like two weeks
before he did it. That's so nuts with
two lung replacements. He's got artif I
mean he's got lung donations like
somebody gave him lungs. Someone died
>> and yeah he's he has to be on
imunosuppressants in order so his body
doesn't reject the lungs but having lung
transplants is crazy. Having two is
really crazy and then wrestling a year
later is just beyond insane.
>> He never looked at what the surgery was
that he got. He doesn't know how they
did it. So, I went and had a look and
it's the full
>> Yeah.
>> breast. It's like your spread eagled
from reverse
>> the fish.
>> Yeah,
>> dude. I got to pee. We got to wrap this
up.
>> All right,
>> Christopher. It's always a good time to
see you.
>> Appreciate you, man.
>> I appreciate you, too. Uh, tell
everybody your podcast, where they can
get it, where they can watch it.
>> Modern Wisdom, Apple Podcast, Spotify,
YouTube. Just dropped an episode with
Jock Willink, Matt McCusker, and Jeff
Dy. So, you can go and check that out.
Oh, nice.
>> Or you can go back and watch the the
Hunter Biden episode.
>> That's a good combo.
>> Yeah, I'm doing this. It's a Mostly
Wise, which is the new series. It's me
and Mccusca with a serious seat. Hunter
Biden was a serious seat for one. We had
human for another. We've got a Neil
Degrass Tyson coming up in Brian
Johnson. I'm like throwing another
comedian in as well. So, it's kind of
fun.
>> Beautiful.
>> Beautiful. Appreciate you, man. Until
next time.
>> Thank you, bro. [music] All right. Bye,
everybody.
>> Bye.
[music]
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